Kia Ora
::) Mind over matter!!! Does it work ?
I'd say yes and in more ways than one...For example transitioning...If we see matter as ones physical body[which it is] and gender as ones mind[which it is], for those of us who have transitioned [whether it be with or without surgery] in a sense it was the power of the mind that transformed the body...
However there's even more to the "mind over matter" debate...
Émile Coué de Châtaigneraie was a French psychologist and pharmacist who introduced a method of psychotherapy and self-improvement based on optimistic autosuggestion.
See link for more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89mile_Cou%C3%A9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89mile_Cou%C3%A9)
A lot of Eastern philosophical thought relates to "mind over matter".. For another example Buddhist monks high in the Himalayas who can dry out wet cloths wrapped over their naked shoulders whilst in sub zero temperatures when in meditation...
::) So what's your "thoughts" on "mind over matter" ? Have you personally had any interesting experiences ? Some trans-people have reported things happening to their bodies without being on HRT ...
Or perhaps it's just a load of "wishful thinking"..
Happy Mindfulness :)
Metta Zenda :)
Not entirely convinced about this, but I've read of an experiment done where women supposedly increased their bust size using nothing more than hypnotic suggestion. My instinct tells me it's possible, but I think I'll reserve judgement.
There's evidence that visualising bodybuilding training (as opposed to actually doing it) can build almost as much body. Of course, you have to put a lot of effort into the visualisation :).
To me, it's a false dichotomy anyway, as the body and mind are just names for aspects of something we start by assuming is two separate things, and then we're so surprised when changing one affects the other (because it works both ways - for example posture changes mood, mood changes posture) etc.
I love you girl! but in this one we stand apart, no way the mind over matter BS.
Kate D
HEY NO MIND IT DOESN'T MATTER ;D
YEA SURE I BELIEVE IN ANYTHING i know the power of the mind
Kia Ora Zenda
Have you read anything by Serge Kahilli King?
Kia Ora,
Some might find this interesting...It's about a Tibetan Buddhist who recently die here in Aotearoa [NZ] and his body has the scientists baffled
the actual programme will be on this Sunday TVNZ's Sunday programme...
http://tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news (http://tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news)
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on June 16, 2011, 09:08:13 PM
Kia Ora Zenda
Have you read anything by Serge Kahilli King?
Kia Ora Princess,
No I haven't read any of his books, he's a Shaman isn't he?
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: kate durcal on June 16, 2011, 05:38:56 PM
I love you girl! but in this one we stand apart, no way the mind over matter BS.
Kate D
Kia Ora Kate.
::) I don't "
mind" what you think about this, because your opinion doesn't really "
matter" much anyway ! ;) :D ;D
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Padma on June 16, 2011, 05:32:59 PM
There's evidence that visualising bodybuilding training (as opposed to actually doing it) can build almost as much body. Of course, you have to put a lot of effort into the visualisation :).
To me, it's a false dichotomy anyway, as the body and mind are just names for aspects of something we start by assuming is two separate things, and then we're so surprised when changing one affects the other (because it works both ways - for example posture changes mood, mood changes posture) etc.
Kia Ora Padma,
::) True...A simple :) smile :) upon ones face can change ones mood :)
Metta Zenda :)
I attended meditation classes run by the local Buddhist monastery here, for palliative care cancer patients. I was suffering severe chronic pain from a spinal injury, so my Dr. suggested I join their class.
By learning the breath control techniques they taught I was able to achieve a meditative state, with the body completely relaxed, but the mind fully alert. From there we moved on to tackling the pain by visualisation . There is nothing mystical or magical about it. It is simply using controlled breathing to change your brainwaves, and so alter the way you deal with received sensations.
Over 50 years ago a Japanese psychiatrist observed patients brainwaves while they meditated, and found that previously untrained people could quite quickly be taught to reach the same level as Zen monks who had practiced for many years.
Eventually I was able to visualise the pain as a physical shape and decrease it, by shrinking it to nothing. Several months later I was also able to use this technique to totally cut off pain sensations when I cut my thumb to the bone, and had to drive 20 km for assistance.
It works, if you are trained, and practice regularly, and are able to maintain the meditative state you have reached.
Karen.
Quote from: Zenda on June 16, 2011, 10:59:53 PM
Kia Ora,
Some might find this interesting...It's about a Tibetan Buddhist who recently die here in Aotearoa [NZ] and his body has the scientists baffled
the actual programme will be on this Sunday TVNZ's Sunday programme...
http://tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news (http://tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news)
Metta Zenda :)
Thats cool. I know i have used my mind to resolve many physical ailments. I work very very hard and my muscles get tight but i am able to concentrate on the internal fibers and let them relax. Its been something i have been able to do all my life but i could never work a regular job at any company. I do need time in between my hard work to regain my bodies balanc. I can also deal with pain unlike most people.
I once read a story in a golf book about the power of the mind. It told of a man who was a POW in Viet Nam for over 7 years. To keep his sanity he would do mind exercises every day. One of the things he did was visualize playing golf at his home course. Each day he would begin his mental round by driving to the course, paying his green fees, step up to the first tee and walk 18 holes.
He envisioned every step, every practice swing, every shot, and every outcome. Every "round" would take him about four hours. During these rounds he was locked in a small cage, barely large enough to stand it.
After he was released, he went home and took the first opportunity to play a round of golf. He shot a 75, the best round of his life.
Anyone who has read about meditation or has done it themselves knows it can elevate your physical performance, as well as other things. Mental preparation is known to improve your performance in any endeavor just as "stinkin' thinkin' will hurt you.
And then there's the story of a sailor on a Navy ship. A 500 pound bomb had landed on the deck but didn't explode. His crewmates said he ran over to it and lifted it and dumped it in the ocean. He said he didn't remember much, just that he was scared to death the thing would explode and they would all die. He did say, however, that he was sore as hell later on. And no, he wasn't a weightlifter or a circus strongman. He was said to be an average-sized guy.
When the mind is singularly focused, we can do amazing things.
His crewmates said he ran over to it and lifted it and dumped it in the ocean.
That a pretty well documented occurrence and though it might well have a high mental component to it, it's pretty much an adrenaline rush that does it.
It is simply using controlled breathing to change your brainwaves, and so alter the way you deal with received sensations.
Right, and that is much more of mind over mind really, than mind over matter. That a combination of mental and physical actions can change other physical outcomes in your own body is more electro-chemical than mystical.
Mind over matter would have to entail some sort of actual projection of mental power without physical assistance to accomplish moving mass through space - specifically, the conversion of thought to energy, and no, I've never seen that.
Quote from: tekla on June 17, 2011, 08:43:36 AM
Mind over matter would have to entail some sort of actual projection of mental power without physical assistance to accomplish moving mass through space - specifically, the conversion of thought to energy, and no, I've never seen that.
What about when a preacher tells the masses gays & lesbians are trying to get married and creates mass hysteria?
Quote from: Julie Marie on June 17, 2011, 09:59:43 AM
What about when a preacher tells the masses gays & lesbians are trying to get married and creates mass hysteria?
There's a distinct absence of mind in that example :(.
What about when a preacher tells the masses gays & lesbians are trying to get married and creates mass hysteria?
Getting closer I think, that's the power of stupid people in large groups, and powerful it is, and never doubt it. It's killed millions and millions if not billions of people over the centuries of human interaction. And for sure it's the power that religion has effectively used. One could argue that in and of itself it's the very heart of the religious experience. It's having everyone on the same page. What exactly that power is that is generated is not understood, but anyone who's been around it knows it exists. It's doesn't move matter as much as it creates reality, some very primitive borg/pack animal linkage among humans. I've felt it in the religious sense, but I've also felt it in some pretty secular settings like Dead shows and other art deals, and in some work situations. It's suggested by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal: that thought changes reality.
What about when a preacher tells the masses gays & lesbians are trying to get married black population that they are equal and creates mass hysteria?
I mean, you'll find lots of the same elements in both preachings. Certainly there was a very powerful deal created when you have situations like Selma {Note: really, when a bunch of little old ladies link arms together and all believe that god is moving forward with them, really, really... get out of their way!} when that everyone on the same page, everyone thinking the same thoughts, that could be said to change reality.
When the sum is greater than the parts, but people maintain their individuality, then it's a force for good. When the sum engulfs the parts, and no-one is allowed to have individuality (or want to have individuality, and the personal responsibility that goes with it), that always leads to more suffering.
Quote from: tekla on June 17, 2011, 08:43:36 AM
That a pretty well documented occurrence and though it might well have a high mental component to it, it's pretty much an adrenaline rush that does it.
Kia Ora Tekla,
::) In a sense it's still "
mind over Matter!"
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: justmeinoz on June 17, 2011, 02:49:00 AM
I attended meditation classes run by the local Buddhist monastery here, for palliative care cancer patients. I was suffering severe chronic pain from a spinal injury, so my Dr. suggested I join their class.
By learning the breath control techniques they taught I was able to achieve a meditative state, with the body completely relaxed, but the mind fully alert. From there we moved on to tackling the pain by visualisation . There is nothing mystical or magical about it. It is simply using controlled breathing to change your brainwaves, and so alter the way you deal with received sensations.
Over 50 years ago a Japanese psychiatrist observed patients brainwaves while they meditated, and found that previously untrained people could quite quickly be taught to reach the same level as Zen monks who had practiced for many years.
Eventually I was able to visualise the pain as a physical shape and decrease it, by shrinking it to nothing. Several months later I was also able to use this technique to totally cut off pain sensations when I cut my thumb to the bone, and had to drive 20 km for assistance.
It works, if you are trained, and practice regularly, and are able to maintain the meditative state you have reached.
Karen.
Kia Ora Karen,
In Buddhism there are two kinds of "knowledge" 1) Knowing "directly" and 2) Knowing "about" and those who practice meditation [Inner science] fit into the former...
Have you checked out the "Mind and Life Institute" which was set up by the Dalai Lama and a group of scientists?
http://www.mindandlife.org/ (http://www.mindandlife.org/)
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Padma on June 17, 2011, 10:35:16 AM
When the sum is greater than the parts, but people maintain their individuality, then it's a force for good. When the sum engulfs the parts, and no-one is allowed to have individuality (or want to have individuality, and the personal responsibility that goes with it), that always leads to more suffering.
this speaks to me: 8)
You should create a separate topic about being an individual? Not that you are or aren't but many here are, while others try to fit in with a peer group. However many don't, and its a good thing like you say when people do their own thing. Too many people give in to the peer groups and don't follow their inner spirit/voice. see this video of this woman to understand. ruth_stouts_garden-1of2.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt-KHUITId8&feature=related#)
I use to try to fit in but since i have switched clothing and cut my hair i am just an individual and much happier since i don't worry about fitting in with other TS's.. However, many people still do not appreciate the individual. It seems even many individuals are not appreciated so they seek peer group people instead of individuals like themselves verses peer people. Not exactly like themselves but another individual. .
The mind is but matter, so it is about matter over matter, yes?
Kate D
Kia Ora Zenda,
I apologize for disturbing your mindfulness
Shalom
Quote from: Zenda on June 16, 2011, 11:05:12 PM
Kia Ora Princess,
No I haven't read any of his books, he's a Shaman isn't he?
Metta Zenda :)
Yes he is a adopted Hawaiian shaman. I have three of his books on Huna which I heartily recommend.
Quote from: kate durcal on June 18, 2011, 09:26:39 PM
The mind is but matter, so it is about matter over matter, yes?
Kate D
Kia Ora Zenda,
I apologize for disturbing your mindfulness
Shalom
Kia Ora Kate, { it would n't be "mindfulness" if I was disturbed} ;) ...
::) Since when as the "mind" been a physical thing? The brain is "matter" but the mind...well that's another story... ;) ;D
The Difference Between the Mind and the Brain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj4HisssD_Y#)
"Buddhist philosophy states the reality of things to be fundamentally nondual-absent of any subject-object duality. So, while a growing number of contemporary neuroscientists adopt a material monist view that reduces all mental phenomena to brain processes, Buddhism tends to adopt a non-material monist view that sees formlessness as the ultimate substrate of inner experience!"
Form is emptiness- Emptiness is form !
::) How the mind and the brain are related remains something of an ancient mystery...[for some] ;)
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Princess of Hearts on June 18, 2011, 10:14:54 PM
Yes he is a adopted Hawaiian shaman. I have three of his books on Huna which I heartily recommend.
Kia Ora and thanks Princess,
::) I did google him to find out a bit more about him...
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Zenda on June 18, 2011, 10:46:43 PM
::) Since when as the "mind" been a physical thing? The brain is "matter" but the mind...well that's another story... ;) ;D
Metta Zenda :)
Sice we realize that without the brian (matter) ythere is no mind (cnciusness, thoughts). The mind is nothing but the electrophysiological activity of billions of neurons.
Just think how the mind is affected by accidents. Famous case for us: there is this guy who has nver had any GID incling, then one day he ingested an nose inhaler (Vicvaporub), and then for the next 3 years he was completly TS, demanding surgery and hormones and CD's. After the drug was eliminated from his sytem, he recover his previous mind, no trce of GID
I know people want to belive that the mind is somehow not physical, but this is not true. The mind is an illusion -a holographic and holistic- represntation created by our brain to fools us into beliving that we are a monlithic entitity.
There is not mystery, no need to invoke esoteric enrgeis or powers, just biological matter.
Those who chose not what is so live in a pleace near reality.
Kate D
Mind over matter does work, well it did for me years ago.
When I was about 8 yrs old I had a very bad fall at the seaside & smashed pretty much all the teeth in my mouth on the unforgiving rocks below, from that day on i've had to deal with endless dentist appointments & after a few years I developed such a bad phobia about needles that for 5 or 6 years I would have my treatment done without anesthetic, root canals, fillings & teeth being pulled!!
I would arrive about 15 minutes before my appointment & sit in the waiting room listening to calming music such as Enigma or Mike Oldfield (the songs of distant earth was the best for this), I would keep my walkman playing throughout the treatmant & hardly ever felt any pain, my various dentists would be both amazed & horrified at me having a tooth drilled without any pain relief & showing little sign of discomfort.
The mind is an amazing & powerfull thing, just when you think you've sussed its limits it will suprise you anew
Quote from: Jane on June 19, 2011, 10:19:31 AM
Mind over matter does work, well it did for me years ago.
When I was about 8 yrs old I had a very bad fall at the seaside & smashed pretty much all the teeth in my mouth on the unforgiving rocks below, from that day on i've had to deal with endless dentist appointments & after a few years I developed such a bad phobia about needles that for 5 or 6 years I would have my treatment done without anesthetic, root canals, fillings & teeth being pulled!!
I would arrive about 15 minutes before my appointment & sit in the waiting room listening to calming music such as Enigma or Mike Oldfield (the songs of distant earth was the best for this), I would keep my walkman playing throughout the treatmant & hardly ever felt any pain, my various dentists would be both amazed & horrified at me having a tooth drilled without any pain relief & showing little sign of discomfort.
The mind is an amazing & powerfull thing, just when you think you've sussed its limits it will suprise you anew
That reminds me of electroysis which i loved and so i thought it felt like acupuncture (even though i never had that) to me but others seem to hate it..
Kia Ora Folks,
::) Here's the full video clip about the Tibetan Buddhist's death, where the mind/consciousness remained in the body for 18 day after the body had died...
::) Weird that...It has the scientists and other medical experts baffled...[it runs in two parts, around 8 and half minutes the first part and 6 the second]...
http://tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news (http://tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news)
Happy Mindfulness :) "Ah the magic of the mind-wonders never cease!"
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: kate durcal on June 19, 2011, 09:47:22 AM
Sice we realize that without the brian (matter) ythere is no mind (cnciusness, thoughts). The mind is nothing but the electrophysiological activity of billions of neurons.
Just think how the mind is affected by accidents. Famous case for us: there is this guy who has nver had any GID incling, then one day he ingested an nose inhaler (Vicvaporub), and then for the next 3 years he was completly TS, demanding surgery and hormones and CD's. After the drug was eliminated from his sytem, he recover his previous mind, no trce of GID
I know people want to belive that the mind is somehow not physical, but this is not true. The mind is an illusion -a holographic and holistic- represntation created by our brain to fools us into beliving that we are a monlithic entitity.
There is not mystery, no need to invoke esoteric enrgeis or powers, just biological matter.
Those who chose not what is so live in a pleace near reality.
Kate D
Kia Ora,
::) And how do you "know" it's not true Kate! ::) After all your "belief" too, is just a "belief" nothing more nothing less....There's no "concrete" scientific proof, even though some scientists might "believe" as you do, but they can't prove what they "believe"...
::) And besides, what is "reality" Kate ? ::) ;)
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Zenda on June 19, 2011, 02:37:32 PMAnd besides, what is "reality" Kate ? ::) ;)
Reality is that annoying thing which continues to persist when you stop believing in it.
If mind over matter would work, there would be no death, and the earth will be filled by healthy, happy, beautiful, and rich people.
Jump out of airplane with out the scientifically-made parachute and you will see just how well "mind over matter really works"
Kate D
Quote from: kate durcal on July 04, 2011, 04:49:12 PM
Jump out of airplane with out the scientifically-made parachute and you will see just how well "mind over matter really works"
I'll challenge a parachute against someone's belief in levitation. Any day of the week.
Just because someone believes the mind and body influence each other doesn't make them automatically stupid :). Citing a ridiculous extreme like paraless-chuting is just... ridiculous.
Perhaps, but anytime you're moving beyond the laws of physics you're moving into charlatan territory. Though there is a lot of work going on with this notion in top physics labs, this is not a top physics lab. Mostly this stuff is used to sell hope to the desperate, and as such, it's fraud.
The final mind over matter story that I recall, shows the limits of it...there was a Russian guy who thought he could manipulate matter...so he stood in front of a bicyclist, and *willed* the bicyclist to stop before crashing into him. This worked, so he decided to see if he could up the ante a bit, so he jumped in front of a car, *willing* him to stop, also...again, the car stopped. Then he wanted to see how strong his mind's abilities were, so he decided to try and stop a freight train....the train *willed* otherwise. (True story).
He's been offered millions of dollars if he could prove that it was real, and not a stage trick. (And I worked with David Copperfield, it's cool how he makes a Winnebago or 727 disappear, but it's a stage trick - a real cool stage trick, NASA level science and technology at work, but a trick in the end) That money is still there.
What you give examples of is mind over mind, not mind over matter. They are not 'meditating' they are 'visualizing' (you can see pro skiers doing it before their runs too) it's a form of practice and of memorizing the right moves so they are instinct and not 'thought out' because at world class downhill level - or Blue Angel flying level - if you have to think first, you've lost.
i've found it can help with dealing with pain. physical pain is intensified when you are anxious and focus on it. women in labor is one example.
Quote from: Padma on July 05, 2011, 08:21:44 AM
Just because someone believes the mind and body influence each other doesn't make them automatically stupid :). Citing a ridiculous extreme like paraless-chuting is just... ridiculous.
A "ridiculous" example of for a "ridiculous" notion. But for the sake of debating, let me give an example closer to home so to speak. Lets try our affliction, a biological birth defect of the stria terminalis (this is the matter) causes GID. How many psychiatrists, priests, preachers, and psychologist have tried through different techniques to teach us to use our mind to control the matter (GI) so we accept our gonads as the determinants of our gender and not our brain. They tried their "mind over matter" techniques and variations thereof, psychotherapy, meditation, prying, to no avail. Finally the APA declared that GID (a matter) could not be cured by the force of the mind.
Even today, as the medical evidence in favor of GID be purely biological in nature, the "mind over the mind" types, you know the bible-banggerd and such, continue to pander their "ridiculous" techniques.
More examples? let see: depression, bipolar, etc; try the mind over the matter with these ones.. No good either.
Kate D
Quote from: kate durcal on July 05, 2011, 05:09:21 PM
More examples? let see: depression, bipolar, etc; try the mind over the matter with these ones.. No good either.
Not sure I'd agree with you there. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy has been shown to work with those conditions. That's just about changing the way you think.
Beg to disagree BT doesn work with anything and has bee largely replace by parmacoptherapy. Only minor neurosis are treated with BT.
Well, I was diagnosed with Clinical Depression and it worked with me, when anti-depressants didn't, so... I would venture it has some use. :) I'm not depressed anymore.
Quote from: kate durcal on July 05, 2011, 05:09:21 PM
More examples? let see: depression, bipolar, etc; try the mind over the matter with these ones.. No good either.
Kate D
Kia Ora Kate,
Quote :
Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy
Mindfulness Meditation (often called depression meditation) covers a number of ways that helps us to deal directly or indirectly with our mental states, so that we change our mental patterns and behaviour. Depression, stress and panic attacks are a few examples of negative mental states that depression meditation can directly assist in. Feelings of helplessness, melancholy and isolation are characteristics of depression. Depression Meditation develops self-confidence and feelings of connections to others. According to many studies, people with depression feel much better after bringing out the relaxation response.
Depression meditation means, if you are getting stressed and tense, hi-strung, or bad-tempered, you choose to let go of the stress and tension by relaxing both mentally and physically. When this happens, there are a couple of things that are happening. The first is the understanding of our mental state. The second is the capability to move our mental states in the desired direction. Meditation helps us to discover ourselves, inside. If you are feeling a sense of depression, it helps you to become more aware of your needs, and presents methods that help you to choose different reactions and improve our experiences.
The University of Wales has found that training those suffering from depression about mindfulness through meditation, helps them to manage with the thoughts that can lead to a relapse of the depression. Science has proven through research that living more in the present time we can be free of negative mind states, manage stress better, improve relationships and have an overall happier and more stable life. A Professor of Psychology at the University of Wales has established that Buddhist-style depression meditation helps to prevent the reappearance of depression. Without depression meditation being used along with traditional methods of treating depression, there's a 70% to 80% chance that depression will return in the next year or two. The difference between cognitive therapy and depression meditation is that cognitive therapy teaches people to look outside of themselves and try to consider other possibilities. Whereas depression meditation, (mindfulness meditation) teaches one to look inside of themselves in a positive and stress free light !End of quote...
Metta Zenda
Dear Zenda,
In several other threads I have expressed my opinion that when it comes to healing nothing should be left out, and just about everything helps. However, the premier role that modern pharmacotherapy plays in the management and treatment of mental illness neededs to be emphasized. The other psychological and/or religious and/or philosophical approaches are but secondary ad-jugants.
The reason I object to your posting is because you tend to set your posting in absolute and opposite terms, the proverbial black and white. For example, in addition to this thread, is the one on "are believers more happy than nonbelievers." Perhaps a more "mindful" use of language may serve you interests better.
Also, you place a quote without a reference, and in the context of having a conversation based in facts, quoting information from a non-peer-reviewed publication bears little weight.
The value of psychotherapy alone or in combination with phamacotherapy remains unclear. Below I am posting 3 out to many references.
Kate D
1.- Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2011 Apr 13;(4):CD000524.
WITHDRAWN: Cognitive behaviour therapy versus other psychosocial treatments for schizophrenia.
Jones C, Hacker D, Meaden A, Cormac I, Irving CB.
School of Psychology, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK, B15 2TT. AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS: Trail-based evidence suggests no clear and convincing advantage for cognitive behavioral therapy over other and sometime much less sophisticated therapies for people with schizophrenia.
2.- Riv Psichiatr. 2011 Jan-Feb;46(1):18-23.
[Effectiveness of cognitive-associated with behavioral therapy psychopharmacological depression. Literature review meta-analyses].
Minelli A, Zambello F, Vaona A.
IRCCS San Giovanni di Dio, Fatebenefratelli, Brescia. aminelli@fatebenefratelli.it
Abstract
AIM: The main focus is to analyze meta-analyses literature inherent the efficacy of cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) with pharmacological therapy in the treatment of depression in adults rather than pharmacological therapy alone.
METHODS: Systematic research via PubMed, fixed subset criteria.
RESULTS: The methanalitic review underlie that the combination of CBT with drug therapy is significantly more effective compared to single pharmacological treatment in adult depression in terms of clinical response and symptomatic improvement. In addition the CBT improves adherence to treatment and reduces the risk of relapse.
DISCUSSION: Even though there is only a moderate evidence that combined therapy (pharmacological plus CBT treatment) is better than pharmacological treatment alone on depressive symptoms, the results support the important impact on NHS policies, allowing future implementation of CBT therapy in public services.
3.- Psychiatr Clin North Am. 2010 Sep;33(3):687-99.
Augmentation of cognitive behavioral therapy with pharmacotherapy.
Ganasen KA, Ipser JC, Stein DJ.
Department of Psychiatry, University of Cape Town, Anzio Road, Observatory, Cape Town 7925, South Africa. keithganasen@gmail.com
Abstract
There has long been interest in combining pharmacotherapy with psychotherapy, including cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). More recently, basic research on fear extinction has led to interest in augmentation of CBT with the N-methyl Daspartate (NMDA) glutamate receptor partial agonist D-cycloserine (DCS) for anxiety disorders. In this article, the literature on clinical trials that have combined pharmacotherapy and CBT is briefly reviewed, focusing particularly on the anxiety disorders. The literature on CBT and DCS is then systematically reviewed. A series of randomized placebo-controlled trials on panic disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, social anxiety disorder, and specific phobia suggest that low dose DCS before therapy sessions may be more effective compared with CBT alone in certain anxiety disorders. The strong translational foundation of this work is compelling, and the positive preliminary data gathered so far encourage further work. Issues for future research include delineating optimal dosing, and demonstrating effectiveness in real-world settings
Kia Ora Kate,
My apologise again Kate I'm afraid my academic skills are not up to scratch...
However, I totally agree with you that all options should be available when it comes to dealing with mental disorders[I've never stated otherwise=different strokes for different folks]...
::) In Buddhism[with over 2500 years of "practical" knowledge/experience] there are two kinds of knowledge=Knowing "about" [ one reads a book on meditation so they know "about" it] and knowing "direct"[which applies to the practitioners who through experience knows]...
::) Just out of interest, tell me Kate have you had any "practical" experience[positive or negative] with "mindfulness" meditation ? or for that matter any type of meditation? Or is it purely based upon hearsay ?
Happiness is just "mind over matter"
Happy "Mindfulness" Kate
Metta Zenda :)
Kia Ora Folks,
::) Just some more food for thought, both from the scientific and spiritual worlds...
On "neuro plasticity" or if you like "Mind Over Matter"
Dan Rather Reports - Mind Science (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkXtz72hjDI#)
Believe it.... or not !"
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Zenda on July 10, 2011, 03:43:48 PM
Kia Ora Kate,
My apologise again Kate I'm afraid my academic skills are not up to scratch...
However, I totally agree with you that all options should be available when it comes to dealing with mental disorders[I've never stated otherwise=different strokes for different folks]...
::) In Buddhism[with over 2500 years of "practical" knowledge/experience] there are two kinds of knowledge=Knowing "about" [ one reads a book on meditation so they know "about" it] and knowing "direct"[which applies to the practitioners who through experience knows]...
::) Just out of interest, tell me Kate have you had any "practical" experience[positive or negative] with "mindfulness" meditation ? or for that matter any type of meditation? Or is it purely based upon hearsay ?
Happiness is just "mind over matter"
Happy "Mindfulness" Kate
Metta Zenda :)
Two years of Lamaism, interesting third eye/aura-sightening, astral projection, intriguing, unreliable. Shifted to Zen, as I become a practitioner of an Okinawan martial art (become a 4th Dan). Gain: ability to focus, situational awareness, increased tolerance to pain and fatigue, served me well not only in combat, and racing, but throughout med school and graduate school. BTW 4 college semesters of religion
Yet all that "mindfulness" and no communion with the creator. Explored several form of Christianity, nothing but emptiness and disgusts. Finally I found G-d in the religion of my ancestors.
Shalom,
Kate D
Quote from: kate durcal on July 10, 2011, 10:02:57 PM
Two years of Lamaism, interesting third eye/aura-sightening, astral projection, intriguing, unreliable. Shifted to Zen, as I become a practitioner of an Okinawan martial art (become a 4th Dan). Gain: ability to focus, situational awareness, increased tolerance to pain and fatigue, served me well not only in combat, and racing, but throughout med school and graduate school. BTW 4 college semesters of religion
Yet all that "mindfulness" and no communion with the creator. Explored several form of Christianity, nothing but emptiness and disgusts. Finally I found G-d in the religion of my ancestors.
Shalom,
Kate D
Kia Ora,
::) It looks like you have been on an interesting journey of discovery Kate...However it does sound like the concept of a "god" has remained a dominant part of your psyche [ conditioning from a young age perhaps]...
These passing fads/phases [interests in Eastern beliefs/philosophies martial arts] are quite common amongst many "
god-centric" Westerners who are seeking to put more meaning into their lives plus wanting to improve self esteem and self discipline through martial arts, or to reduce anxiety and depression through meditation...
Many have greatly benefited from their experience, that is they have managed to obtain a more "focused" mind and in some cases able to have some level of control over their anxieties without the use of medication...
What I also find interesting is the "Mind Over Matter" part of your reply [highlighted in red] ... ::) Is this just a slip of the tongue [or contradiction] or perhaps it's your way of saying
"In certain situations "Mind over matter" does work !" ;) ;D
Either way thanks for your input Kate, I enjoy the challenges you present[even though at times some of your replies have the ability to do my brain in :icon_confused2: :icon_yikes: ]...
I wonder ::) could this be another example of "Mind Over Matter" ? ;)
BTW I'm happy that you have finally found your god...[Who or whatever it might be I hope this god of yours brings you lasting peace]...
Happy mindfulness :)
Metta Zenda :)