Hes just a gay boy who likes attention
It's not for me to judge. Or anyone to judge really. I think if Chris is happier as a woman, then Chris should live as a woman. If Chris is happier as a man, then Chris should live as a man. Some people find out later on in their lives or transitions that they don't want to constrict themselves to gender binaries and live freely as both genders or as neither gender.
Just because Chris is flamboyant, loud, out and proud, doesn't mean that Chris is wrong for how he or she chooses to identify.
Leave Chris Croker's gender identity alone! *emo sobbing*
</sarcasm>
I've only ever heard Chris refer to zhimself as female.
So it doesn't come as any surprise to me.
If she truly needs to live as a female, that's perfectly fine.
How do I get upset at someone who I have never heard of?
I never personally liked him, but he can be whatever he wants
Chris Crocker did go through a time where he felt that he was a woman, but I think his feelings evolved and eventually settled on being androgynous, boy clothes mostly while not behaving to any gender norm.
Below is an old video he made before he settled on his current identity. In this video he talks about how he feels like a woman.
The Boy or Girl Question. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZRgqCa_OPY#)
I've never heard of Chris Crocker?
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on July 12, 2011, 03:29:40 AM
I've never heard of Chris Crocker?
He was big on leaving Britany (Spears) alone. Search for him on youtube and you should see the infamous video.
I think Chris is very lucky to have such an Androgynous face that enables him to "pass" with a fashionable flair. I think he's a pretty attractive person physically, and I believe that this health and freedom in the appearance is almost essential to be able to explore the soul and identity. I only wish that I was born with a much less strictly male appearance that allowed me to pass fashionably in an attractive way; because of my explosive and comedic personality, I'm positive that I would have been one of the "Chris Crockers" of Youtube, if I felt more confident to show off my face. Even my career is in the media and comedy world.
However, I just sort of think Crocker in particular has an annoying personality at times. He's funny and some of his videos are downright hilarious, but you have to take him in very slow! Otherwise, I believe he is an excellent representation of what a human being is able to do given a fairly attractive Androgynous appearance and a entertaining personality, and given a Youtube page. We live in the age were if you're fairly attractive, interesting, and confident, you can at least build a strong following online; this is the age of the internet fame. And quite frankly, an internet following is actually a very healthy thing to have when a person is going through such a truly "extreme" "disorder" like gender identity. It can replace a lot of negative feelings.
A big motto of mine is "if you don't have anything else in the world but good looks and confidence, you can at least get rich by being a Youtube star!"
I am annoyed on general principle - while very much recognizing it's visceral and i have no real right to - by anyone who's "flamboyant" in being gender variant.
I completely recognize their right to but a big part of me wishes that all the gender "abnormality" anyone ever heard of was a very simple "changes sides on the binary" transition. Of course there will be others, but the more "hey look at me!!!" they are the more they annoy me.
Well these days the word transsexual means a billion different things to a billion different people so for all I know he could be claiming to be something I personally would consider a fire hydrant. *shrugs*. oh yeah I have no idea who this chris crocker is either... *also has no interest in finding out*.
Meh, I just wish I was that pretty.
Quote from: Padma on July 12, 2011, 04:17:19 AM
Meh, I just wish I was that pretty.
Padma you are much prettier. ;)
Nice try - but I know how 'flattering' my avatar is :-\.
:)
As it goes, one reason why I find Chris pretty is because she looks a lot happier than she used to, which has got to be a good thing, regardless of the whole youtube stardom weirdness.
Yet again I sit in a corner. I do not know or care what a Chris Croker is. And why should I?
Cindy
I agree Padma, I think you're as pretty as Crocker!; actually, you honestly look as though you could be a sibling of his! I think a number of techniques that Crocker does with his naturally slightly-masculine appearance would work the same type of wonder with your features as well. Crocker is sort of Androgynous to the point his identity appearance truly seems to work for who he feels he is, but there's still no denying that he has some masculine-ish traits that he's worked very well with using his wig and make-up techniques - he has a workable palette and I believe you truly have the palette that evokes the same type of confidence and accessibility, a look that's easy on the eyes and can be amplified using the steps you feel are you.
And as it is, there's no doubt that your image strikes me as female as opposed to male. The brightness of the eyes, the glow of the face, the smile, the accessibility, one can truly appreciate your image as a female IMO, and I'd pretty much say the only improvements from here might just be hair and make-up, if that's the direction you're looking for. I've never thought anything critical or negative about your image, and I'm just a tad picky myself! ;) I think you're going in the right direction!
To be honest as well, I've always liked what you've done with your hair color while it's in the shaved-length phase. Actually, I like bold colors in general, and I think it gives you a punch of identity; especially pairing it with the same clothing color. Transitioning is a weird process in life, might as well try out some unique colors or styles along with way!
Quote from: Tammy Hope on July 12, 2011, 04:10:52 AM
I am annoyed... by anyone who's "flamboyant" in being gender variant.
Why? What's wrong with flamboyant?
Quote from: RhinoP on July 12, 2011, 04:59:09 AM
I'd pretty much say the only improvements from here might just be hair and make-up, if that's the direction you're looking for.
I'm not a make-up kind of being, but I'm working on the hair, which I just want a bit longer and fuller (Finasteride is on my horizon, which will help there). I'm not particularly aiming for trad femininity myself, I just think Chris has a pretty face, is all.
Quote from: girl_ashley on July 11, 2011, 01:25:06 PM
Leave Chris Croker's gender identity alone! *emo sobbing*
</sarcasm>
Hahahahah :D
Chris is as annoying as he/she is attractive, oh well. I didn't know Chris was still around?
I heard Chris is making gay porn presenting as a male (and a top). I'm not sure how that affects the discussion. It's still very possible Chris identifies female and is just going through the motions for fame and/or money.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8bOoD.jpg&hash=989c25559b2dfee2844dfb2de7ee04a011b7386b)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZ32IO.jpg&hash=95923c47ed2ba23aa7d2034e92da6e9320582c96)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9nSpd.jpg&hash=b6dc7bdd47a08e7970ad1f80049bb92d8d1cab96)
More proof that Andy Warhol was right.
Oh, that person still exists? I had never heard his (her?) name and when I looked it up I made the link with "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE !! T_T" that made the whole world laugh a while back.
Anyway, let him or her be whatever he or she wants. I never liked flashy people like that much.
Anyway, I hope (s)he doesn't give "us" too bad an image.
No-one is anyone else's official representative - as far as I'm concerned, she can be just how she wants to be, and that reflects on no-one except her.
In theory, that is. But in practice, people take a famous example of a rare phenomenon and apply it as the norm. Even I do this.
Quote from: Lisbeth on July 12, 2011, 05:37:20 AM
Why? What's wrong with flamboyant?
it can often provoke negative stereotypes which make it easier for the opposition to characterize us in ways that work to our disadvantage, either purposely or subconsciously.
Yes, that makes me a conformist.
I don't mind flamboyance that has nothing to do with gender identity, just when it contributes (however inadvertently) to the argument for inequality.
Quote from: A on July 12, 2011, 11:16:51 AM
In theory, that is. But in practice, people take a famous example of a rare phenomenon and apply it as the norm. Even I do this.
bingo.
Just because our detractors are narrow minded (or simple minded) does not require us to be so. And no matter what you do, it's not going to win them all over. Haters gonna hate, that's what that means. If you to go 'A' they are going to change the goalposts to 'B' and so on. It's not a game worth playing.
That's a huge part of what I love about SF, there are so many flameingly flauntingly flamboyant persons (in all sorts of ways and styles) that I just blend into the background. My quasi-hippie look outfits don't draw me no attention. I'm not flashing anything. Hell, I've almost always got an ankle length skirt on, and leggings underneath, sweaters and scarfs (it's cold here). Once people get used to the really weird, the more general, run-of-the-mill weird gets a lot easier to handle. And that much weirdness gives other people more lee-way to be a bit weirder themselves. It's fun.
Quote from: dalebert on July 12, 2011, 09:45:07 AM
I heard Chris is making gay porn presenting as a male (and a top). I'm not sure how that affects the discussion. It's still very possible Chris identifies female and is just going through the motions for fame and/or money.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8bOoD.jpg&hash=989c25559b2dfee2844dfb2de7ee04a011b7386b)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZ32IO.jpg&hash=95923c47ed2ba23aa7d2034e92da6e9320582c96)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9nSpd.jpg&hash=b6dc7bdd47a08e7970ad1f80049bb92d8d1cab96)
Well, transition is expensive, if he was considering it. I've seen some MTF's who used to do male modeling and bodybuilding, so it's possible that Chris isn't as comfortable with his body as his new occupation would make it seem. Labels matter little when it comes to porn I think. Buck Angel is married to a woman, and yet is a gay porn star. Not trashing him, I think Buck's awesome and wish there was more FTM porn, I'm just saying personal politics or identity don't matter much in that industry.
Quote from: tekla on July 12, 2011, 12:31:16 PM
Just because our detractors are narrow minded (or simple minded) does not require us to be so. And no matter what you do, it's not going to win them all over. Haters gonna hate, that's what that means. If you to go 'A' they are going to change the goalposts to 'B' and so on. It's not a game worth playing.
That's a huge part of what I love about SF, there are so many flameingly flauntingly flamboyant persons (in all sorts of ways and styles) that I just blend into the background. My quasi-hippie look outfits don't draw me no attention. I'm not flashing anything. Hell, I've almost always got an ankle length skirt on, and leggings underneath, sweaters and scarfs (it's cold here). Once people get used to the really weird, the more general, run-of-the-mill weird gets a lot easier to handle. And that much weirdness gives other people more lee-way to be a bit weirder themselves. It's fun.
Good counter point.
Quote from: Cindy James on July 12, 2011, 04:57:52 AM
Yet again I sit in a corner. I do not know or care what a Chris Croker is. And why should I?
Cindy
And yet you took the time to post.
TBH, if he wants to be a lamppost it's his call. People get so worked up about arguing one way or the other whether he's 'really' gay or if it's all just an act...At the end of the day it all boils down to the fact that he is an attention-whore, he delights in being the centre of attention and discussion. With that said I'll now skip off and spend my time more wisely.
I came across Chris' videos in the past. To me, he is playing on both side of the court on the transsexual/non-transsexual issue and he's more of a RuPaul than those going full-time. I seen this type of acting and flamboyance in Sid Vicious and Michael Jackson, even though neither has or shown very little of of transgender tendencies. Chris is burning the candle at both ends like Sid and Michael did. RuPaul is a true entertainer, he starts and leaves his performances in the dressing room.
Joelene
Honestly, Chris is extraordinarily handsome as a man too.
With Crocker's videos, I always kept up with his Youtube channel (again, I find him funny, along with quite a few other entertainers I enjoy) and I've heard his emotions and dedication to the subject, and I do believe that having a (flamboyant) female-trans-crossdresser identity was something 100% true to his heart; he lived with his Grandma and she supported him %100. However, as all human beings can do, it could have been just a phase, who knows. That's why I believe Androgynous youths (those who, like Crocker, look very attractive in both female or male form naturally) typically are most free to make their own phase and identity choices, especially early in life, and lets face it; Crocker has probably accomplished more confidence in his sense of self than most of us here.
never even heard of him/her
Hmmm
Christine Crocker comes out to play :) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxcrfpUrsxg#)
I don't feel I'm in a position to tell them what they are or arn't.
Just because someone might be a infuriating ->-bleeped-<- dosen't mean that they suddenly arn't a transsexual as tempting as it is to distance yourself as much as possible, it's frankly extremely offensive to suggest that anyone should act a different way to "represent" transsexuals in a better light. Makes you no better than those HBS "reel" women puritans and their crap.
It suprised my friends when I got frustrated at another transwoman and I called them a "dumb bitch." Someone having GID dosen't make them innately more likable or more unlikable or make me any more likley to enjoy someones company.
Chris Crocker annoys me... but whatever he (or she) wants to be is none of my business (and I can't find myself really wanting to care).
He (or she) just annoys me :P So, I try not to look that direction anyway.
Whether you know who Chris Crocker is or not, you've got to admit that Chris/Christine would be pleased that their outrageous persona is being so passionately debated, as in the threads bring written here! We should invite them to respond! :laugh:
My issue with Crocker is because of past disgusting slurs on women and their "loose bacon strips". Highly disrespectful and downright shameful. No matter if it's acting or not, what was said was vile. Even if it was years ago.
Not I. Chris Crocker can do what Chris Crocker needs to do.
Hey i saw her on tosh.0 & i totally clocked her even before hearing her voice! :laugh:
Ive seen some of the pics, and heard some of the talk... our broad band is very "narrow" but I got the idea.
What damage is she doing? Maybe I don't understand.
Is she a TV claiming TS? I thing that's what I understood.
There are plenty folks that move from TV or CD to TS and it is their right to do just that.
Let the poor thing make a fool of herself, it will NOT need our help.
"Pride cometh before the fall..."
Just my 2 pennies,
Axelles
I am pretty shocked that a lot of people who don't want to be judged....sit around in judgement. Seriously? Really? I've met Chris Crocker. VERY nice person. Can be a little silly in front of a camera, most of us are. Obviously had to deal with a lot of BS in the south before moving to LA.
Get your house in order. Gay, Straight, Trans, Others, Flamboyant, Masculine, Feminine pick your side...acceptance or not. (pick the acceptance side)
I don't know that Chris ever claimed to be TS, or that Chris still claims to be if s/he did.
But the evidence at hand suggested that at present (assuming that video represents the present) we are talking about a gay drag queen.
which I have NO problem with - DQ's are SUPPOSED to be flamboyant. And that is considered by some to be TG (albeit a lot of drag queens, as i understand it, do not really consider themselves to be)
But as a judgement call - and folks can shake their fingers all the want but EVERYONE makes judgement calls about others, it's what you do with them that matters - I wouldn't be at all comfortable with considering Chris a TS or referring to him as a female (except in the sens that as a courtesy you refer to a drag queen in the feminine when they are dressed)
He doesn't really present the attitude of one who self-identifies as female at all.
Strikes me more as a RuPaul wannabe.
Again, nothing wrong with that - but it's not TS
Well, in the video clip I watched her CLEARLY said that she feels she is a girl.
That's not TV talk, unless I'm missing something.
Axelle
but it's not TS ...yet. But who knows?
I think HE is a lulu bird for liking britney spears, so anything he says i dont trust
No one is really qualified to judge a person by internet videos. Whether or not he is transsexual is not for us to judge. And out of respect, I refer to him as male, since he is choosing to identify as male.
Being transsexual isn't some type of exclusive club. If he says he is transsexual (which is a claim he no longer makes), then take it at face value. We live in a world of nonacceptance and intolerance, let's make our corner of the world better than that.
I'll just go and sit in the corner with Cindy on this one I think. Who??? :embarrassed:
Karen.
Yes, I was annoyed.
Quote from: girl_ashley on July 11, 2011, 01:25:06 PM
Leave Chris Croker's gender identity alone! *emo sobbing*
</sarcasm>
XD, i say the same but (NO SARCASM) !!!please!!!
To be honest, I don't care what anyone whom I don't personally know does so long as it doesn't hurt themselves or others. And, I think those that do need to find a hobby or something else meaningful in life.
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." -Eleanor Roosevelt
Quote from: madirocks on August 08, 2011, 12:24:07 PM
To be honest, I don't care what anyone whom I don't personally know does so long as it doesn't hurt themselves or others. And, I think those that do need to find a hobby or something else meaningful in life.
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." -Eleanor Roosevelt
This +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
We can't move forward as a unified group of people while caring about stuff like this.