I have serious body image issues with my muscular shoulder, biceps, and forearms.
I am doing cardio, no weights and eating high carbs, soy protein, and fat. Will the hrt help eliminate these, or reduce them at all? I am a littl...a lot worried, this is my main issue that ->-bleeped-<-s with my confidence about passing and presenting female. When I say passing, I dont mean to others, I mean to me, so i can feel comfortable in a high class dermatologists and med spa office.
I think I already know that I am stuck, but hope is always welcomed, just not lies.
I have the same problem but I have that issue with my thighs and calves too, not sure what to do.
Hi,
I'm a lot older so things should change more slowly, right?
I had a LOT of upper body strength, genetically pretty well build, broad shouldered.
Had done windsurfing which broadened me out no end. Incidentally so did my son.
I was a size 16 for my height of 5" 6.5" yet after 1 year HRT I'm close to medium, a size 12 - 14.
So my answer is: DO NOT WORRY, you will loose on top --- like everyone else.
Using light exercise as I do, daily walks for 1 hr already does the trick.
BUT YOU CAN NOT RUSH IT!
Take care,
Axelle
thanks axelle. Im not in a rush, although it may seem that way. I just need to know that in time i will be able to see myself the way I desire. I know I will never be a supermodel, but I do want to feel comfortable with myself.
Thanks again :-)
HRT can affect soft tissue but if you're working out you're going to look buff. And with T still coursing through your body, that workout will result in more muscle mass.
Lowering T and increasing E has different effects on different people. The mesomorph will more easily gain muscle mass than the ectomorph or the endomorph. This article (http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/body-types-ectomorph-mesomorph-endomorph.html) does a good job explaining the different body types.
I'm mostly mesomorph and there has been very little change in musculature other than what changed when I stopped swimming. I stopped swimming because I was hopelessly ripped, just from swimming. No weights at all.
Once you figure out your body type, you'll have a better idea what kind of impact diet and exercise have on your body.
There are plenty of exercises that natal women do that tone and shape some of the very same areas that give the MTF concerns. To avoid them, even pre-operatively, is probably doing your body an injustice. But HRT is not going to account for drastic changes by itself...some of it still requires effort by the operator (ie. YOU).
As I have noted, I never had a lot of muscular definition. Probably the most noticable change years ago had been in the calves but that was not so much a change in the muscle itself but rather somewhat of a reshaping through fat distribution.
Admittedly, most of the work I do beyond the hour or so of cardio every day or so is focused more on abs and legs, but I also make sure to spend at least a little time each week working on upper body. The non-cardio work is done on resistance machines and not free weights...it is a personal preference for me, but I seem to have better results with the machines since I am not looking to add bulk. I do more reps with a lighter weight...it works for me (albeit this is also MANY years post-op).
HRT should help with this to some extent. Though if your sisters, cousins, mother, etc. all have big arms, it may not do very satisfactory results regarding them. Though you may want to take a look at this (http://www.trans-health.com/displayarticle.php?aid=22).
I personally have always fled exercise like plague and have avoided getting my father's big arms thus far, but it's probably not healthy. (Forget the "probably").
Anyhow, the general advice is to ditch weights altogether and do solely endurance training and to focus on the lower body when you do.
I've heard after orchiectomy/SRS muscle mass goes down a lot, because even though you're on HRT you still have a good amount of T coursing through your veins. So getting an orchi might help reduce it further if it doesn't go down enough
This is basically a remake of a post I did on the FtM board, if you want to understand it more then read this https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,99999.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,99999.0.html) otherwise, here is the short version. Hope this helps.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.tinypic.com%2F2l8dnx2.jpg&hash=f8085a01c37627724d0ee5fef364dc04a7ce485f)Age 18, taking Testosterone illegally for bodybuilding(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.tinypic.com%2F347flmb.jpg&hash=b83a61dcf0e1ff434b92730e933eb0de84ac97fb)Age 24, Over a year off T and the Gym, this is what I looked like with no exercise.
Age 26, 2 years on estrogen(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi52.tinypic.com%2F205xs45.jpg&hash=1c094f6617f5f94dd8bded6d1940c04db959d08d)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi51.tinypic.com%2Fjqt8jp.jpg&hash=fa28f354f50f1b5cc39e6a8e49926878d7d8564e)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi51.tinypic.com%2F23t5s1u.jpg&hash=1d37397188deffb3ec1d66211ddab8bf2e99a678) I still love my Biceps =)
When you are young the body has an amazing ability to dramatically change, revert and dramatically change again in a different direction.
Wow your so pretty you have like super pumped my self confidence its like your pumped me with happy pills :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 12, 2011, 02:39:38 PM
Wow your so pretty you have like super pumped my self confidence its like your pumped me with happy pills :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Hehe I'm glad =)
you know whose hair would look amazing on you!
Light's hairstyle
"Drive My Soul" Ustream Acoustic Performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQLgN4HOGLg#)
lot of alternatives to this, in the official video it's more straighter and less raggedy, my favorite Light's hairstyle would be in the meatloaf video.
I'm probably going to be kind of short and stocky. I worked out in high school and in the air force. This was me about 9 years ago.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo98%2FMiriTekker%2Fcandid%2520pics%2FHPIM0179.jpg&hash=ea2e8cbb3a545d94439b39a173339a177c3b0775)
I dont have much muscle left in my lower left leg since my fork lift accident, So in a way I hope I dont loose too much muscle mass in my legs.
LOL... Sorry, but its soooo weird to see these before and after pics.
I dug through a box and showed my pic from the Air Force Boot Camp to my daughter :)
30 years later, 20 of them on hormones, all we could say was WOW....
Soooooo weird :)
Your body will change....
54 and I still have great legs and not a trace of cellulite! (ok, so my belly flopped)
I see all of you so pretty and impossible to tell about your ex boyishness its amazing seeming all information websites state other wise hmmm whats your secret? I mean is HRT really miracle worker or did you all just drink a magic potion :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
you'll notice that the longer you're on E and androgen blockers, the less muscle mass you'll have.
Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 13, 2011, 09:40:32 AM
you'll notice that the longer you're on E and androgen blockers, the less muscle mass you'll have.
Very true =) I've been on hormones for over 2 years now and I still notice muscle loss and muscle change... and I exercise and stay really active. There is no telling how much I would have lost had I not stayed active.
Vanessa do yourself a favor and go to a model agency please i mean really its good money and fun i hear :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D I mean i cant see why but i as a boy have been asked to model a lot and always say no because well i can beat you girls can guess but no seriously Vanessa just go try out i mean your model pretty and if they dont agree well nothing lost dont you agree :D :D :D :D
Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 13, 2011, 12:46:49 PM
Vanessa do yourself a favor and go to a model agency please i mean really its good money and fun i hear :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D I mean i cant see why but i as a boy have been asked to model a lot and always say no because well i can beat you girls can guess but no seriously Vanessa just go try out i mean your model pretty and if they dont agree well nothing lost dont you agree :D :D :D :D
Hehe, you sound like my mom... and It's Vanna =)
I have done modeling before, as a boy and as a girl. I enjoyed it much more as a guy... I don't really like being around a lot of women. Straight girls tend to irritate me =)
Also, as a boy I could show my parts, but as a girl I have to hide them to make sure that nobody figures out I was a boy. So, I am more reserved in female modeling. Maybe things will change after I get my surgery =)
For now I just model for my girlfriend...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi51.tinypic.com%2F99o489.jpg&hash=5e5f154598b1661d10b8c9306cad8a48a29530c9)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi52.tinypic.com%2F2zhqd5g.jpg&hash=6ec11b8248932616bbe5a56b5ff52c5b8eaea766)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.tinypic.com%2Fnwfx3m.jpg&hash=7e0a72f5bd41cf1d171e7203eb6695ff89406333)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.tinypic.com%2F35b9ria.jpg&hash=f9bb92254888999f3c6b5d183ceec305f98278f4) with my mom a few days ago =) I'm only 5'8, she's just barefoot and i'm wearing shoes
Quote from: jillian on July 12, 2011, 04:29:31 AM
I have serious body image issues with my muscular shoulder, biceps, and forearms.
I am doing cardio, no weights and eating high carbs, soy protein, and fat. Will the hrt help eliminate these, or reduce them at all? I am a littl...a lot worried, this is my main issue that ->-bleeped-<-s with my confidence about passing and presenting female. When I say passing, I dont mean to others, I mean to me, so i can feel comfortable in a high class dermatologists and med spa office.
I think I already know that I am stuck, but hope is always welcomed, just not lies.
People have already said it but I'll say it again. Testosterone is a steroid, it's what is responsible for men's muscles getting larger than women's. Once you take away your testosterone (or most of it) your muscles shrink. You WILL lose strength and your body will eventually begin to shape like a woman's. It takes time though, you can't be too impatient. Give it a year on hormones before you really start to notice the muscle mass reduction.
I already notice it to a degree. Can breasts grow without ever feeling tenderness or is my muscle just turning to fat? Also, I am terrified of having upper body hair and having to fight it. Should I do laser or should I be patient and let the hrt take effect? I know I sound whinney and slightly impatient...but if it quacks, its a duck :-/
Quote from: jillian on July 13, 2011, 07:41:46 PM
I already notice it to a degree. Can breasts grow without ever feeling tenderness or is my muscle just turning to fat? Also, I am terrified of having upper body hair and having to fight it. Should I do laser or should I be patient and let the hrt take effect? I know I sound whinney and slightly impatient...but if it quacks, its a duck :-/
If you have upper body hair then it's not really going away, it may get lighter, thinner and grow less often... but it's still going to be there. Your breasts will feel tenderness when they grow, there is no getting around it... and muscles don't turn to fat =P
well...then I think my pecks have turned to moobs. cause they have gotten bigger, flabbier and they are not at all tender...
:-( depressed about the body hair...seriously depressed....
laser hurts so bad, and not just physically.....its expensive
Quote from: jillian on July 13, 2011, 08:31:20 PM
well...then I think my pecks have turned to moobs. cause they have gotten bigger, flabbier and they are not at all tender...
:-( depressed about the body hair...seriously depressed....
laser hurts so bad, and not just physically.....its expensive
after some time, you wont even notice the body (chest?) hair anymore.....most of it will dissipate, the ones that dont will be so fine you wont even notice.....wait about 6-8 months or so
I think your buggin'! Give it like 3 months before you start noticing much *hugs*
You're boobs will almost certainly get tender sooner, but you won't really notice growth until about 2 or 3 months in.
what would I do without you girls :-)
Id be even more of a wreck.
Thank you....
I need this saturday soo bad.
Me and my partner are going for full body massages, facials, and pedicures. We got a deal on living social for 70 bucks a piece. If ever I needed to be pampered like a princess, it is now :-)
I love you girls
I haven't been on T for years now, it's just harder for gains, I'm more into definition, being a petite feminine gal is just not an option so just embrace who you are :)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FvCcRmtdO70/TdvmBHYcXPI/AAAAAAAAAYA/ZLcZsCV0r18/s400/37859_1357597219604_1221703109_30923749_6131423_n.jpg)
Quote from: Cyndigurl45 on July 14, 2011, 06:57:06 AM
I haven't been on T for years now, it's just harder for gains, I'm more into definition, being a petite feminine gal is just not an option so just embrace who you are :)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FvCcRmtdO70/TdvmBHYcXPI/AAAAAAAAAYA/ZLcZsCV0r18/s400/37859_1357597219604_1221703109_30923749_6131423_n.jpg)
Looking good Cyndi! I love ripped women who train hard =) Whenever I get my SRS I plan to go back to the gym and resume my training that I quit when I started to transition. I think I'll take a more modest approach then last time, but still I miss the gym =(
Haha you two girls are the opposite of little never had muscles me :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 14, 2011, 11:35:02 AM
Haha you two girls are the opposite of little never had muscles me :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Muscles are great =) Even though i'm 5'8 and 115-120 lbs, I'm still in excellent shape... despite how underweight I am. Guys and girls seem to enjoy women who aren't completely puny and helpless. I have been embarrassed about my weight and my small body my whole life, going to the gym was a way to embrace my genetics and help me gain weight weight =) I miss the gym sooo bad.
5'8" is small :o :o then i must be tiny at 5'5.5"
and
Quote from: VannaSiamese on July 14, 2011, 11:42:39 AM
Muscles are great =) Even though i'm 5'8 and 115-120 lbs, I'm still in excellent shape... despite how underweight I am. Guys and girls seem to enjoy women who aren't completely puny and helpless.
Ok wow i might just be like that :o :o :-\ :-\ :-\ i mean any boy could easily over power me after all
Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 14, 2011, 11:35:02 AM
Haha you two girls are the opposite of little never had muscles me :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
That makes two of us... :laugh:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theforestatnight.com%2Fsusans%2F2011-05-31%252012.40.12.jpg&hash=2f759c027b4aa13e1f8cfd617719cc1fa8166b1a)
Quote from: Zoë Natasha on July 14, 2011, 11:57:46 AM
That makes two of us... :laugh:
Sister lol :D :D :D only big diff is my shoulders but i will wait and see how e changes them
I hope e changes my shoulders. I am a little confused on exercise though.
I am trying to eliminate muscle so I do cardio x, kenpo x and yoga x, sometimes twice a day...not all three, but one or a combination of two.
I am eating about 1100 calories comprised of mostly carbs nad what protein I take I try to stick to soy.
If anyone can help I would be indebted to you.
I was 220+ about 3 months ago, I am now at 185. My muscle has slightly decreased and I have toned slightly, but I still feel like I stand out.
Cindy you look like a female body builder. Nothing like a man. I dont understand how you did that, but cheers....
QuoteI am eating about 1100 calories comprised of mostly carbs nad what protein I take I try to stick to soy.
I am worried. It's very hard to find all of the vitamins, minerals and other nutrients you need in what you describe. It sure sounds like a race towards nutrient deficiency. Have your levels of most everything checked just in case, but to eat so little (especially in a biologically male person) smells like danger, especially in a young person.
I am no nutritionist, but I already see something:
-So little calories (unless you are especially inactive, you would need 2000+ calories to stay stable) might actually slow down your slimming and rather diminish your energy outcome (making you tired, cold, etc.) effectively putting you in "reserve mode". This will reduce your energy and might (but I doubt you are at that extreme) cause blackouts or even permanent damage. You should settle for 1500 calories a day.
-You need fat to live. Even "bad" fats are needed in small quantities (though most people get too much even if they try to reduce them), but most importantly, you need a certain quantity of unsaturated fats and poly-unstaturated fatty acids (unsure of the English name) such as omega-3.
-If you eat mostly carbs, you strain your pancreas a lot, which is the first step towards diabetes if you are unlucky and/or you push it too far.
-Carb-rich foods which you probably make your main food of are rich in certain nutrients, but even a varied income of those (grains, fruits, vegetables, etc.) will make you lack many essential nutrients, for example (not a complete list at all) healthy fats, vitamin B's, vitamin E's, and iron.
-If you get most of your proteins from soy, you will probably miss some essential amino acids. Proteins are not only for muscle ; they are necessary for your body to function, and there are many types of proteins. A general rule is to eat at least different two high-protein whole grain cereals AND two different legumes in sufficient amounts. There are levels that, even if you wish to kill muscle, below which you should not know.
This is not a complete list and I am far from being an expert. It is just to show you that you need extreme care. Actually, you are doing way too drastic a diet to do it alone... Such an extreme thing (think about it, half the calories you need) needs medical attention IMO.
i take vitamins every day
ive been on hbd meds for 14 years, and i had a physical yesterday and they took me off the meds and they said i was in good shape.
dont worry. i give in to cravings.
Uhm, I think I have already shown you this: http://www.trans-health.com/displayarticle.php?aid=22 (http://www.trans-health.com/displayarticle.php?aid=22)
There's not much you can do apart from that, I fear. You could try putting less strength in everything you do (write, etc.) and avoid even daily tasks that require using the muscles you want gone over the strict minimum, but that may be useless and not worth the annoyment.
Im probably taking in about 12 to 15 but this article is where I got this regimen.
One thing I do is I give into powerful cravings
For instance, if I crave french fries, its obvious I probably need salt.
Cheese is something else I find myself craving so I eat something fatty.
I am very sensitive to subtle changes in my body, so I take heed.
Ive been averaging about .8 to 1.5 pounds a day. Weekends send me back up to the last weekends minimum, so its about 4 pounds a week I am losing.
Thanks A
@Vanna
You have restored my faith that one day my arms will look... er, normal. Very impressive.
My shrink offered me the option (as if I'd say no!) of taking anti-androgens along with oestrogen - they actively suppress the testosterone, which helps with this. And there are kinds of exercise regime that give tone to muscles without building bulk - I'm looking into this, as I want to maintain some strength without being bulky (I'm a drummer, so my arms get their own workout!)
Quote from: Axelle on July 12, 2011, 04:49:02 AM
Hi,
I'm a lot older so things should change more slowly, right?
I had a LOT of upper body strength, genetically pretty well build, broad shouldered.
Had done windsurfing which broadened me out no end. Incidentally so did my son.
I was a size 16 for my height of 5" 6.5" yet after 1 year HRT I'm close to medium, a size 12 - 14.
So my answer is: DO NOT WORRY, you will loose on top --- like everyone else.
Using light exercise as I do, daily walks for 1 hr already does the trick.
BUT YOU CAN NOT RUSH IT!
Take care,
Axelle
I also have bodyshape issues. I've been on HRT for over 12 years and I'm still too big on the upper body (size U.K 16) compared to my lower body (size U.K 12). I'm not tall either. I'm not sure what the answer is? and I've been trying to get the upper and lower proportions right for years!
Quote from: Padma on July 15, 2011, 03:06:36 AM
My shrink offered me the option (as if I'd say no!) of taking anti-androgens along with oestrogen - they actively suppress the testosterone, which helps with this. And there are kinds of exercise regime that give tone to muscles without building bulk - I'm looking into this, as I want to maintain some strength without being bulky (I'm a drummer, so my arms get their own workout!)
:o :o I am so what shocked lol girls can have bulk sweetie my friend she is an amazing drummer and can easily over power me just because you loss your T you wont lose your drumming ability.
Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 15, 2011, 08:36:39 AM
:o :o I am so what shocked lol girls can have bulk sweetie my friend she is an amazing drummer and can easily over power me just because you loss your T you wont lose your drumming ability.
As a fellow drummer, true, true, true, and TRUE! ;) Though I know I've lost strength (things I once carried feel much heavier than before) I haven't lost any power or stamina while playing drums.
Its is funny for me because only a year ago could i just lift what other boys could and again i cant ;D ;D ;D ;D
Playing congas is a great workout - it's like dancing :).
I avoid physical labour and will only exercise after my SRS i think its safer that way.
You can still do some exercise, you know, it's good for you. Just focus on the lower body and it will be all right.
Any suggestion ?
Running, soccer, biking, hiking, skating...
anything that wont take away my skinny perfectly no boy legs? i mean thats the one part of my body i never let be effected by T
This follows on from another thread, but I will put in my 2 cents worth.
Yesterday I saw my Gender therapist, and we were discussing where I was in transition, doubts, dissatisfactions etc.
I mentioned that as I am 6'3" and broad shouldered I still had concerns about passing on rare occaissions. He said that as my face now definitely fell on the female side of the line, people would react to that as the main gender marker. He pointed out that that there are a lot of tall women, and women with broad shoulders, such as swimmers, netballers, and other athletes, and that these things were secondary to facial cues.
As I pointed out in the other thread you already have a good start on the facial appearance, so the rest will follow. Laser hair removal and basic makeup will do the rest. As you are young Male Pattern Baldness won't be a worry for you, so you are ahead of a lot of us.
Relax and let Mummy Nature look after you. For exercise it's hard to beat walking.
Karen.
If you go strictly for cardio, I don't think it would have any significant effect...
Quote from: A on July 16, 2011, 06:06:54 AM
If you go strictly for cardio, I don't think it would have any significant effect...
Thank you!! but dont i need some fat in my body i mean i am a twig but in a beautiful way except my tummy so dont i kind of need that fat for a good effect from e? or should i just cardio it away?
I quite like being an athletic girl...I'm out and skating at least 4 hours a week and ususally more...I haven't bulked out, i'm just toned to the point of being a warrior princess. Plus being outside all summer means I have a killer tan.
Also I've known a number of girls with shoulders broader than their hips so it's nothing to worry about really.
I have caramel colored skin so my killer tan exists even in winter ;) ;) i am more concerned with having a stroke or any other of the fatal side effects of HRT
Of course fat is important. I was not recommending some exercise for your weight, but rather for your general health.
EDIT: To add to your second message, strokes would rather come from the lack of exercise rather than the action, unless you have something special. Another possible life-threatening side effect would be liver and thrombous embolia (not sure about the exact name of the second), and I am fairly sure exercise can only reduce those risks.
But all of those are very unlikely since you are young and healthy.
Quote from: A on July 16, 2011, 06:06:54 AM
If you go strictly for cardio, I don't think it would have any significant effect...
It depends on just what one seeks to accomplish...I will concur that it would do little for the shoulders, biceps and forearms, although the ellipticals COULD have some impact on toning the shoulders. I didn't have issues with either my shoulders or arms, so I cannot say I have noticed much of a difference there.
The cardio HAS been great for the weight loss though...that is primarily where my focus has been, along with some work on the resistance machines to tone my midsection and hips.
That being said, there may also be significant differences to be found between doing the same work post-operatively as what a pre- or non-op might see...not to mention the differences that age can bring to the equation.
Quote from: jillian on July 14, 2011, 07:16:27 PM
I hope e changes my shoulders. I am a little confused on exercise though.
I am trying to eliminate muscle so I do cardio x, kenpo x and yoga x, sometimes twice a day...not all three, but one or a combination of two.
I am eating about 1100 calories comprised of mostly carbs nad what protein I take I try to stick to soy.
If anyone can help I would be indebted to you.
I was 220+ about 3 months ago, I am now at 185. My muscle has slightly decreased and I have toned slightly, but I still feel like I stand out.
Cindy you look like a female body builder. Nothing like a man. I dont understand how you did that, but cheers....
Thank you sweetie, I was some what of an amateur light weight body builder before transitioning, plus spray on tan to hid the tats and a wig ;)