The price in question isn't financial but emotional, this is the price I was willing to pay:
I ended an 8yr relationship
After a rocky few months me & my ex are good friends, she's an amazing woman
I was willing to lose my friends & family
Things have been strained between me & my family but even though they don't understand my need for this they are standing by me, my friends have been great (with one exception, not bad going)
I was willing to lose my job
to be honest it's a terrible job with terrible bosses & even worse pay so it wouldn't have been much of a hardship if I lost this job, unfortunately I didn't ;)
That is what I was willing to lose, even though I didn't lose any of that I feel as if i've turned my life upside down & inside out.
Now to get to the real price, since leaving my ex i've had to find a flat, the cheapest I could find is bankrupting me & I may have to find a small studio flat to make ends meet, the trouble with this is that if I get a smaller/cheaper place then I won't be able to keep my dog.
I first saw him at my brothers wedding & he wouldn't let me go near him without barking constantly (he barked all the way through the speeches because I tried to stroke him), later in the day I took him for a walk & by the end of it he wouldn't leave my side, when we left my brothers pub I got in my mums car & he put his front paws on the window & walked along with the car as it reversed whimpering all the way.
2 weeks later my brother let me have him & we've been together for over 4 years now, he shares my bed, my food & makes life worth living.
I spent a couple of thousand pounds on vets bills whilst everyone kept saying I should save the money & have him put down but now, thanks to regular injections he's extremely healthy.
I don't know how I can avoid losing him, my flat is the cheapest I could find that would let me have a dog & i've spent the last few months looking for a part time job with no luck, a woman at work was considering a house share with me but she pulled out a couple of weeks ago so i'm back to square one, unable to make ends meet & facing losing my beloved dog.
So there you go, i've told you what I was willing to lose & what i'm going to have to lose so I ask you all this question:
What price are you willing to pay to transition?
Never would have accepted losing my kids in the equation. Never.
Friends I could accept. Certain family members I could accept.
Never would have transitioned if I knew what happened at work would have happened. I would have waited a few more years to retire.
At the time I was seriously considering transitioning, I was pretty dysphoric. My plan was to wait until I reached retirement age then consider transitioning. Looking back I feel being on HRT was a major factor in my dysphoria. I know that flies in the face of how many of us have described the day we finally begin HRT but it's after that euphoria wears off that things do a 180. Instead of having birth sex hormones coursing through your body, in line with birth gender, you end up with an internal battle - opposite sex hormones influencing your thoughts, making physical changes and fooling with Mother Nature. It turns into a cauldron of conflict that increased my gender dysphoria.
What price am I willing to pay? That's a very different thing than the price I actually paid. For many of us, there isn't a clear cut win in deciding how we will live our life.
I'm going to be divorced. Compared to that, all other prices seem less important.
That's a question I have very much been thinking about. It would be nice if you could just plug all the information into a computer and calculate all the costs. I have no doubt in my mind that I want/need to transition. My only doubt is will the price be too high? NOT transitioning has a price too especially if you have been on HRT for a while and have to go off and let the male hormones take back control. I don't know if I'd be suicidal but I'd just be running down the clock and just living day to day watching the years slip by. Alive but not living.
I'd probably make everyone miserable and I'd end up alone anyways. At least with transition, there is a chance to be alive and maybe the losses wont be as bad as you thought. I plan to loose almost everything including wife, 80k/year job, house. The only thing I couldnt accept would be loosing my daughters. I know it will be difficult for them but I think they will adapt. I just hope my wife doesnt turn bitter and try to poison them toward me. I'd never forgive her for that.
My las experience with a dog, is similar in some respects, but very different in others. I'll share it if it might help.
Briefly. The animal was owned by a rather unplesant man I knew, but associated with for other reasons. He continually beat the little thing, not because it had done anything wrong, but simply because it was the only thing he could hurt and get away with it. The dog, when I met him was so nervous, it vibrated, continuously.
I managed to take the dog, when in a fit of temper, this guy said he was sick of the sight of it.
I lived in a single room in somone's house. I couldn't even have visitors, let alone a dog. But I managed to get someone to take it for a few nights, while I found somewhere else. Over the next couple of years, this became a bit of a habit. I would find people who would take him for periods, ranging from a few weeks to a few months, but always, I had to find somewhere else. I should say that all of the people he lived with were kind and decent people. Sadly, this wasn't the prettiest dog in the world. He was certainly no trophy, especially for the fashion conscious.
I visited the dog regularly. I trained him to follow commands. He quickly became devoted to me. He seemed to try to work out what I wanted and would follow almost any command. He would walk along a raod, no matter how busy, at my heals, without a lead, for example and stop when I said. But more than anything, and this is where he was so similar to your dog, he was utterly devoted to me. He would look so sad whenever I went away.
Anyway, I had to go to Europe for a while. While away, he was staying with some people who had had a baby. Apparently the dog let out a short growel when the baby was being attended to.
When I returned, the dog was gon. I completely understood. The baby comes first of course. But they wouldn't tell me where it had gone. They claimed he was on a farm, but wouldn't say where. (Usually, you tell kids that their favourite pet has gone to a farm).
I suspect, they took him to the countryside and left him there. If I could have done, I would have taken him to a vet myself and had him put down.
I will say this. I would rather have sat with him, holding him while he died, than to know that he probably died alone and frightened in some country wood, with a 12 bore bullet in his rump.
I'm really sorry to have to say this, but take him to a vet and sit with him while he dies.
i am willing to lose my mother, but that really isnt a problem for me seeing as we dont get along anyway.
i was willing to lose my friends, but i didnt lose them they all still love me. i am willing to lose a lot at school seeing as it is my senior year.
Quote from: spacial on July 12, 2011, 12:26:02 PM
I completely understood.
I wouldn't. They accepted responsibility for his care. I doubt the 'baby danger' story (he growled once when the baby was being attended to, wtf? anyway, sounds more like a convenient excuse) and even if that was the case, there were a million other things they could have done. At the very least, they should have had the decency to be honest with you, an adult, about what happened. You know, if this had been property they'd agreed to store (a car, boat, etc), they'd have felt obligated to come up with a better explanation. If they weren't prepared to take care of him, they never should have taken him.
Very sorry for your loss, Spacial. :(
Quote from: Forum Admin on July 12, 2011, 12:57:30 PM
I wouldn't. They accepted responsibility for his care. I doubt the 'baby danger' story (he growled once when the baby was being attended to, wtf? anyway, sounds more like a convenient excuse) and even if that was the case, there were a million other things they could have done. At the very least, they should have had the decency to be honest with you, an adult, about what happened. You know, if this had been property they'd agreed to store (a car, boat, etc), they'd have felt obligated to come up with a better explanation. If they weren't prepared to take care of him, they never should have taken him.
Very sorry for your loss, Spacial. :(
Thank you for your wishes.
To be honest, I never believed it either, especially the bit about the farm. (Or perhaps because of it). But I had little choice really.
Howver, that was a done deal, (as they say in the states). In a similar situation I would have accepted that I could never place that dog and had it professionally put down.
I've heard of people who choose to live on the streets rather than give up a dog. I can understand that. but it just isn't practical.
I know that dog deserved better. He would have done the same for me. (As silly as that comparison is, it is likely to be near the truth).
If I could have stayed with him, while he died, at least he wouldn't have suffered. Living on the street for the sake of the dog is just silly. For both.
When I posted this topic I was in a bit of a miserable mood as you may have guessed, i'm still in a bad place right now as I watch my life spiral down a drain but at least the downward spiral is slower now, before I came out my depression over my need to transition was entering the dangerous red zone (i've been there before & recognised it enough to head it off at the pass). At least now i've told people & started the ball rolling i'm able to snap myself out of my depression with the hope of eventually being happy with who I am.
Today I got home to find a court summons for unpaid council tax, my mother had promised to pay it until I found a cheaper place or a part time job but she obviously hasn't been doing this & maybe I am losing my mother in spite of her promises not to let this come between us, she's lent my brother ten thousand pounds for his pub which then got firebombed so she's rode to his rescue with more money whilst my life goes down the pan.
After a cry about the state of things I phoned my ex, i'm going to see her on friday & discuss the possibility of her taking the dog, she's told me in the past that if I get any problems then she will be happy to look after him so at least i'll know that he is in a good home with someone who will give him all the love & attention he needs & deserves, i'll also be able to visit him whenever I want but that may prove too painfull at first.
I've heard it said that to truly change your life you have to reach rock bottom first, maybe thats what i'm going through right now, I hope i'm close to rock bottom as I dont know how much more of my life I can stand to see fall apart before my eyes.
I'm walking through the fire & the flames & when I reach the other side I hope to be reborn from the ashes like a pheonix, as long as I have hope I will continue through this turbulent storm that is my life.
Best wishes to you all, may your price be small & easily paid
Good to hear therte are prospects for the care of your dog.
As for your mother, suggest you walk away. There is no need to tell you what the consequences of court summons for unpayment mean. To let you down that way, especially after promising you then giving it to a pub, was a kinda obvious slap in the face.
Take care Jane.
Some family I'm willing to give up. My stepdad once told me I would go to hell when I told him about this girl I liked. I'm completely willing to make myself despised to two of my grandmothers, both of whom really despise what I've done so far. One of my sisters thinks I'm weird as hell, and I'm okay with her refusing to associate with me. All my other brothers and sisters, I am not willing to lose. I think I could deal with it, it would just be hard.
I'm willing to give up friends. One friend of mine got mad at me over something completely unrelated -- I was annoyed with her when we were studying and asked her to say "please" -- it ended up in a (instant message) fight where she threatened to beat me up with several gender-based insults. We have since made up, and she's extremely good about it now (called me "he" to our teacher). But I'm completely willing to lose friendships. I don't have many, but I have lost a friend over this before. It hurt, but I realized she wasn't worth it.
I'm... not really sure if I'm willing to give up my boyfriend. I've freaked out that testosterone (and mastectomy, if necessary) will make me unattractive to him, as I'm the first guy he's ever dated, and he's primarily attracted to women. He's said he won't, but I've still got worries. I suppose if it came down to it, I could deal with losing him. (Although my best friend would be obnoxious about it and use my crush on him to pick on me endlessly... totally willing to go through that XD)
I'm willing to put up with ->-bleeped-<- from the school, though I seriously doubt it'd come. Only one person out of the entire school picks on me, and pretty much all of them know about me, or have heard rumors. The teachers can kiss my ass, I'm telling them to call me Christopher next year. I don't care about social problems from transitioning.
Homelessness, I don't think I could do that. Dangerous. I think I can get to the point where it won't be a problem.
Quote from: spacial on July 14, 2011, 03:44:00 AM
Good to hear therte are prospects for the care of your dog.
As for your mother, suggest you walk away. There is no need to tell you what the consequences of court summons for unpayment mean. To let you down that way, especially after promising you then giving it to a pub, was a kinda obvious slap in the face.
Take care Jane.
When I first told my ex about wanting to transition she was suprisingly supportive, on the first chat we had we ended up comparing men that we find attractive (fortunately our tastes in men are different), she's already said that she would be willing to take care of the dog if my treatment made caring for him difficult in any way, she also said that if I experienced difficulties then I could use her spare room, I don't know if that offer still stands but I will be discussing it when I see her so if the offer is still open then I may be moving back with her.
My mother has always been great in the past but she's finding my news difficult to come to terms with, she avoids the subject as much as possible & seems uncomfortable around me at the moment.
My mum is quite a controlling woman, soon after I broke my news she offered to pay for extensive dental treatment, i'm becoming convinced that she is under the impression that this will boost my self esteem enough for me to decide against this course of action & become "normal". She hasn't said anything to back this up but I know her well enough to know how she thinks, i've got the appointment in about an hour & the estimate is 180 quid, you may be suprised to hear that i'm going to be stuck paying that bill now.
Over the last few years my family has dwindled through deaths & arguments & all I have left now is my mother, brother & an auntie, i'd hate to lose them so will hang in there in spite of these problems, i'm sure that she will come around once she sees how happy this decision has made me, I havn't let her see me wearing womens clothes or make-up as i feel it would be too much too soon, when that day comes it could prove to be a make or break situation so i'm going to wait as long as possible for that day in the hope that she will have accepted it by then.
independent of the question do we have a choice in transition or not?
We can decide to not transition because of the big cost, but the other choice is alcohol drug self harm and suicide.
Has anyone ever asked those who threaten, condemn or judge if they would be willing to live the life YOU want THEM to live?
I was willing to pay any or all. Life before transition wasn't life, it was a conditioned response to years of brainwashing by society that i should be what i looked like on the outside and repress everything else. It was part in a play, the character played was fictional. So i was willing to risk it all for a chance at life (real life). I wanted to know what it was like to live before i died, and i would risk anything and everything to do it. If i had children i might have thought differently, but since i didn't the choice was easy to make.
So family, friends, career, and even my own life, i was willing to risk and knew i would be risking in doing this when i started. Luckily things turned out well. I have doubled my friends (some left, more joined), i have kept most of my family, i actually am doing better career wise, and have even picked up a relationship leading to marriage. Amazing what you can accomplish when you stop fighting yourself and truly live instead of pretending to.
I am willing to lose my friends. They aren't close anyway. I may lose my job. No great loss except the income is decent. I will lose my SO. She is not a lesbian. But she would stay as a friend (one for my side). I may lose my daughters and sisters. None are close to me. I may lose my son and mother. My mother may be okay withouot understanding. My son though will have to adapt and accept me, I hope. I did raise him so we are close. But not too close.
I may lose my more but not sure what they are yet.
Quote from: Julie Marie on July 14, 2011, 03:10:31 PM
Has anyone ever asked those who threaten, condemn or judge if they would be willing to live the life YOU want THEM to live?
Yes, i've asked someone what gives them the right to tell me what I can or can't do with my life & body, I also asked them that if they have the right to judge me then do I have the right to judge them & tell them how to live their life
I had my dentist appointment yesterday & the bill was 192 pounds, when it came time to pay I thought to hell with it & phoned my mum & told her that I needed her to pay the bill as I couldn't afford it, she didn't sound too happy with the cost but as she had insisted that she would pay for it I held her to it.
At the end of the day the treatment wasn't urgent & I was planning to put it off until my financial situation improved, she's already caused me serious financial problems with a promise she didn't stick to so I put her on the spot about it.
She also mentioned that my brother who she lent a massive amount of money to didn't have sufficiant insurance for his pub so she isn't going to get her money back & is now going to alter her will so that he gets less inheritance, it doesn't change the fact that she keeps bailing him out whilst I sink but it made me feel a bit better that he will pay it back one way or another
Quote from: Jane on July 12, 2011, 08:20:16 AM
What price are you willing to pay to transition?
It cost me my parents, my sister, all of my friends, my home town, my childhood, and every cent I had. Was it worth it? Yes. That was 37 years ago.
Quote from: yabby on July 14, 2011, 01:30:33 PM
independent of the question do we have a choice in transition or not?
We can decide to not transition because of the big cost, but the other choice is alcohol drug self harm and suicide.
From the time I realised that a war was going on between my head & my body I chose denial & misery, this then led to almost 20 yrs of smoking drugs that I only gave up once my lungs were so messed up that I would use 1 inhaler a week, I would also wake up for work & cough until I made myself sick. I'm in no doubt that i've taken years off of my life for this.
In answer to your question, yes we do have a choice to transition or not but to choose not to can prove to be a very self destructive path
Whatever the price will ultimately be, I've adopted the attitude: What did I see in these people who turned on me in the first place? Why did I sacrifice so many years of personal happiness for people who, once I stopped meeting their expectations, walked out of my life without even saying goodbye? What on earth did I see in them in the first place? I should be thankful I finally found the courage to be me and discovered just how shallow these people are.
Quote from: Julie Marie on July 19, 2011, 07:51:17 AM
Whatever the price will ultimately be, I've adopted the attitude: What did I see in these people who turned on me in the first place? Why did I sacrifice so many years of personal happiness for people who, once I stopped meeting their expectations, walked out of my life without even saying goodbye? What on earth did I see in them in the first place? I should be thankful I finally found the courage to be me and discovered just how shallow these people are.
That's currently the attitude I'm adopting with my biological father and his wife (who I've stopped referring to as my dad and stepmom). I was nothing more than a tool that they used to try to hurt my mom, but they partially abandoned me when they saw I wasn't playing their game, and totally abandoned me after my stepsister purposely blabbed to them about me being trans before I had a chance to tell them personally. So that relationship is over and I don't care anymore.
Last night my friend suggested I should go further: stop referring to my biological dad as thus. His initials were GRR, so I should just start calling him Grr. Then there's Grr's wife. :laugh:
I am willing to pay the ultimate price for this.
Heck for me.. if everything fails horribly, I will be struggling to have Maiara engraved on my tombstone, to the bitter end. Friends, carrer, family.... my own life, everything. I am doing my best it doesn't comes down to this.
Quote from: Valeriedances on July 12, 2011, 01:14:48 PM
Every day is a risk of paying a price, potentially the ultimate price with our lives, either because of how our bodies are now or because of our past. That may be the highest price of all, the risk we face of being true to ourselves despite societal norms.
Can you explain what you mean here? Are you saying "We are at high risk of being killed if we are seen as trans?"....
Quote from: Julie Marie on July 19, 2011, 07:51:17 AM
Whatever the price will ultimately be, I've adopted the attitude: What did I see in these people who turned on me in the first place? Why did I sacrifice so many years of personal happiness for people who, once I stopped meeting their expectations, walked out of my life without even saying goodbye? What on earth did I see in them in the first place? I should be thankful I finally found the courage to be me and discovered just how shallow these people are.
Honestly I have only had one friend freak out over this and no longer talks to me. As you said, what did I see in them in the first place? I was willing to give up a LOT to do this but it turned out that very few bad things happened to me..
Quote from: Stephe on July 19, 2011, 11:18:52 AM
Can you explain what you mean here? Are you saying "We are at high risk of being killed if we are seen as trans?"....
Some people kill trans just because they are trans.
Quote from: Annah on July 20, 2011, 04:40:23 PM
Some people kill trans just because they are trans.
Again I ask: are they saying we are at high risk just for being trans and open about it? I understand some trans people are killed for being trans, but it's far from common for a trans person to be attacked -just- because they are trans. That does happen (and happens to other minorities) but that isn't usually what causes the attack.
I feel confidant in saying most hate crimes against trans people are from being involved in high risk behavior not from them simply being trans.
http://www.liminalis.de/2009_03/TMM/tmm-englisch/Liminalis-2009-TMM-report2008-2009-en.pdf (http://www.liminalis.de/2009_03/TMM/tmm-englisch/Liminalis-2009-TMM-report2008-2009-en.pdf)
The GGB report states for Brazil that 92% of the murdered trans people in 2008 earned their living as sex workers.
Another problem is many MTF forget they are now truly women and do things that ANY woman would find risky such as walking alone out at night in a back alley or into a dark parking lot. Or walking though a secluded area. If a straight guy attempts to sexually assault them and then finds out she is trans, he is more likely to "flip out" and it turn deadly. Clearly these people are not asking for this attack but we need to educate trans people about these rules natal females are taught early on about basic "safety rules for women".
The other common way a trans person is at risk of being seriously hurt or killed is playing the "stealth" game. Out hitting on and picking up straight guys, being confidant no one will ever clock them. The guy somehow discovers they are "A woman with a transsexual history" or they are pre-op etc and he feels like he has been tricked into having what he perceives as homosexual sex. Things can quickly turn ugly. It's why IMHO that being stealth may seem safer on the surface. But if you are later clocked it is much more dangerous than if you are open about your past right off the bat. YOU might feel your history doesn't matter but you can't assume your partner, especially a casual one you don't know well, feels the same way.
Angie Zapata was a trans woman who was murdered on July 17, 2008, in Greeley, Colorado. Allen Andrade, who learned eighteen-year-old Angie was transgender after meeting her and spending several days with her, beat her to death with a fire extinguisher. Andrade's attorneys used a gay panic defense, implying that Andrade suddenly "snapped" when he learned Zapata was not born biologically female.
I am NOT saying these victims deserved this fate nor am I defending the people who do these things to trans people. Just that I believe a LOT of the murders and attacks that happen to trans people are due to risky behavior, NOT from just being openly trans...
Quote from: Stephe on July 20, 2011, 10:59:49 PM
Again I ask: are they saying we are at high risk just for being trans and open about it? I understand some trans people are killed for being trans, but it's far from common for a trans person to be attacked -just- because they are trans.
Well, yeah. Not too many trans get killed because they are trans if they are stealth. Trans are killed through hate crimes because they are out of the closet about it or someone finds out they are trans, thus being outed.
QuoteI feel confidant in saying most hate crimes against trans people are from being involved in high risk behavior not from them simply being trans.
This is not true either. There are many trans men and women who are killed simply because they are trans and not because they were whoring out there bodies. A friend and classmate of mine is an associate pastor at a Metropolitan Community Church in Baltimore and she buried two transgirls this year alone. Neither were whores or were promiscious. Both of them were killed on their way home from work (a legal job...not prostitution).
Another example is the girl from Baltimore who was beaten to a pulp in a McDonalds simply because she had to pee. There was no high risk behavior in that either.
QuoteThe GGB report states for Brazil that 92% of the murdered trans people in 2008 earned their living as sex workers.
other research also show that the vast majority of South Americans are working slave labor wages just to live. Making tshirts for one dollar a day so we can buy them at a cheaper cost. The prostitution rates (for any gender and gender variant) are so high because the will to survive outweighs the wills of compromising one's morality.
Brazil also ranks as the highest South American country inflicted with AIDS. This does not mean that gay men stereotypically get AIDs.
These statistics are situational country by country
QuoteAnother problem is many MTF forget they are now truly women and do things that ANY woman would find risky such as walking alone out at night in a back alley or into a dark parking lot. Or walking though a secluded area. If a straight guy attempts to sexually assault them and then finds out she is trans, he is more likely to "flip out" and it turn deadly. Clearly these people are not asking for this attack but we need to educate trans people about these rules natal females are taught early on about basic "safety rules for women".
I agree.
QuoteThe other common way a trans person is at risk of being seriously hurt or killed is playing the "stealth" game. Out hitting on and picking up straight guys, being confidant no one will ever clock them.
I do not see transwomen or men who are stealth as a game. They are entitled to be seen as their true gender.
However, I do agree that transwomen who are pre or post op should tell their dates beforehand about their past. I always do. The ones who walk away ...then that tells you it wasn't meant to be. The ones who stay are usually more mature.
Quote from: Annah on July 20, 2011, 11:24:31 PM
Well, yeah. Not too many trans get killed because they are trans if they are stealth. Trans are killed through hate crimes because they are out of the closet about it or someone finds out they are trans, thus being outed.
I do not see transwomen or men who are stealth as a game. They are entitled to be seen as their true gender.
However, I do agree that transwomen who are pre or post op should tell their dates beforehand about their past. I always do. The ones who walk away ...then that tells you it wasn't meant to be. The ones who stay are usually more mature.
I've done a LOT of research on this and the vast majority of the murders I have seen are either: a) sex workers (in any country, world wide numbers show 55-80% are sex workers in any given year.) b) They were in a bad part of town late at night alone (being ignorant of general women's safety). c) They were stealth playing the "I can date/hit on straight guys and not tell them" game and got caught.
VERY few of the crimes are committed on someone living a normal life, not doing one of these high risk behaviors. A person who is just a trans person that doesn't pass 100% and was murdered for that reason alone in what would be normally considered a safe place for a woman to be. Yes it happens but it is a SMALL minority of the trans murders/assaults compared to the others. Most seems to happen from some form of "discovery" after being assumed to be female, not from someone being recognized right off the bat as being trans.
And just because a woman is assaulted doesn't by default mean it was because she is a trans woman. Most violent crimes happen to women, period. Being stealth doesn't minimize this risk. But yes if a trans woman is sexually assaulted, it is MUCH more likely to turn ugly/deadly if this "discovery" part happens. I would venture to guess that an out trans person would be less likely to be sexually assaulted by a straight man to start with? Irregardless this is, most times these are linked to b) above, them being ignorant of basic women's safety rules.
And no I didn't say "stealth" game is the -living stealth to the general public- part. Everyone should have free choice to decide if they feel that is important to them or not.
The -game- part starts when you are being stealth to your sexual partners or even a date. I'm sure some people will find this insulting but, I see that as a deadly game because you are gambling your partner feels the same way about your past as you do, or that they won't find out. Many partners will not feel the same as you and the police blotters are full of dead trans people who played this game and lost.
I don't have any statistics but I would be shocked if the % of trans murder cases that didn't fit a, b or c were any higher than the murders that happen to any other group of people.
Unfortunately in todays day in age; you just have to pay the price to be who you are, and there is no way around it. So better to learn to accept you are going to have to give up on things you dont find to be fair and become stronger about it. Because nobody else is going to make the decision to change our gender for us and nobody else is going to be able to make the difficult things any less difficult- because its mostly their fault we have to go through it. So we need to be the ones who are strong and believe God has our back just as much as He/She has anybody elses. I do.
I haven't transitioned yet but I've already gave up some things:
- A career in business (I graduated four years ago with a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration)
- Money (Otherwise I'd be making a comfortable salary)
- Having a girlfriend
- my cisgendered friends
I guess you can say that I haven't truly given them up yet and I've been struggling with myself in the sense of just how transgender am I to be willing to sacrifice it all, but I in my heart wish that I could sacrifice everything for this.
Quote from: SkylerKts on July 21, 2011, 12:44:37 AM
Unfortunately in todays day in age; you just have to pay the price to be who you are, and there is no way around it. So better to learn to accept you are going to have to give up on things you dont find to be fair and become stronger about it. Because nobody else is going to make the decision to change our gender for us and nobody else is going to be able to make the difficult things any less difficult- because its mostly their fault we have to go through it. So we need to be the ones who are strong and believe God has our back just as much as He/She has anybody elses. I do.
I just can't get over my mom and dad though, because they've done so much for me and I feel like I have to give back to them. In addition, they aren't doing well financially, and I feel like I just can't abandon them and let them suffer. I don't know if I could live with myself.
Quote from: Katelyn on July 21, 2011, 01:15:16 AM
I just can't get over my mom and dad though, because they've done so much for me and I feel like I have to give back to them. In addition, they aren't doing well financially, and I feel like I just can't abandon them and let them suffer. I don't know if I could live with myself.
I don't know your situation but the best way to repay parents for all of their support throughout your life is to be a success in your life, I know it's hard to see a parent struggling to come to terms with this but surely you owe it to yourself to be yourself (& happy for it)
You also run a high risk in the GID incapacitating you if you don't deal with it. The harder you try to ignore it, the stronger it will re-emerge. You may find yourself completely unable to do your job because all you can do is think about the GID and what you will do about it. Then you may find yourself not able to keep your life together much less help any one else.
Quote from: JessicaH on July 21, 2011, 12:25:57 PM
You also run a high risk in the GID incapacitating you if you don't deal with it. The harder you try to ignore it, the stronger it will re-emerge. You may find yourself completely unable to do your job because all you can do is think about the GID and what you will do about it. Then you may find yourself not able to keep your life together much less help any one else.
amen sister. Before being trans absorbed so much of my thoughts, "how am I going to deal with this" etc. Now it's barely a blip on my radar. You also have to decide what is important. IMHO being HAPPY is what matters. Do whatever you need to do to improve the quality of your life overall. Being forced to live as the wrong gender but having more money etc isn't going to make you happy..
Actually any price, being old enough to die on the op-table, stroke, etc. etc.
During my early transition i agreed to quadruple bypass op as so to be acceptable for GRS, one year later crainiotomy (open the skull) to fix a haematoma. Never mind the thousends of $$$ and not even talking SRS yet.
The alternative was just to end my live there and then when it all came to a head. 26. Feb 2010
Axelle
PS: so I'm not that strong a person as a lot of folks would have seen it when I transitioned.
What price transition?
A great post, and a question I've been avoiding giving myself an answer for many years.
I've been unwilling to chance losing family or friends.
I've rationalized this failure in a variety of ways.
My families was to fragile emotionally to handle my wish to transition much less the transition itself.
My friends would be initially supportive, but would inevitably drift away.
My workplace would be tolerant in the disapproving way institutions have of showing tolerance.
I'm to old to root up my life.
All of these evasions are not without merit, yet they do nothing to satisfy the itch that emerged from somewhere many years ago, and even with a diminishing sex drive has never really abated.
One thing seems clear to me with a powerful itch one will scratch, although not always in the desired spot.
When I was fourteen, I was willing to pay any price. I was able to begin when I was ready to lose everything... though, to be fair, I didn't have much.
I was in an odd spot in my life... I didn't even know my family, really, because I had isolated myself from them for years, just living in my own world. I had no friends, and no money. I did have an ipod though, and access to the Internet. Those things were pretty cool; the ipod allowed me to channel my hatred for everything into creativity, and the Internet let me plan transitioning so I wouldn't go crazy.
So, the willingness to lose family that I didn't really know, and friends that I didn't have, was easy. The willingness to be an object of hatred, so as to make me paranoid with every step I take, was less easy, but I was ready.
A lot of that stemmed from pessimism and grim reading, looking back. I haven't had to lose anything... and I have not been hated for what I'm doing by anyone. I'm still ready, every day, to make those sacrifices again if I have to, but I don't believe that my life will come to that. And for that I am infinitely grateful.
I just pray the day doesn't come that my life turns upside down. But if everything transition-related was reversed, then at least I'd have boobs. :P
Best wishes everyone...
I know the mantra is people who don't support you aren't worth having around, but if for some reason it came between my family and transitioning it would be a tough call. I'm okay with paying pretty much anything except them.
Quote from: Jordan R.T. on July 23, 2011, 12:03:36 AM
When I was fourteen, I was willing to pay any price. I was able to begin when I was ready to lose everything... though, to be fair, I didn't have much.
I was in an odd spot in my life... I didn't even know my family, really, because I had isolated myself from them for years, just living in my own world. I had no friends, and no money. I did have an ipod though, and access to the Internet. Those things were pretty cool; the ipod allowed me to channel my hatred for everything into creativity, and the Internet let me plan transitioning so I wouldn't go crazy.
So, the willingness to lose family that I didn't really know, and friends that I didn't have, was easy. The willingness to be an object of hatred, so as to make me paranoid with every step I take, was less easy, but I was ready.
A lot of that stemmed from pessimism and grim reading, looking back. I haven't had to lose anything... and I have not been hated for what I'm doing by anyone. I'm still ready, every day, to make those sacrifices again if I have to, but I don't believe that my life will come to that. And for that I am infinitely grateful.
I just pray the day doesn't come that my life turns upside down. But if everything transition-related was reversed, then at least I'd have boobs. :P
Best wishes everyone...
Unfortunately most of the things you read about how TG's are generally hated by everyone and how hard it will be unless you hide being trans, is written by people who assume this for their own self and then spread it all over like it is something they have experienced first hand.. I have seen VERY LITTLE of this and most of what I have experienced was far from hatred. If anything the few ignorant responses I have been subjected to were: they saw it as comical, not that they were brought to rage/hatred. I can't base my life and hide my identity on the fact occasionally during transition someone might giggle? O.o
I don't want to lose anything, I want to have my cake and eat it too.
Now, i will probably lose alot. I may or may not have already lost my wife, things are complicated there, but I can't blame being trans for that, the issue with that is separate. I am more than willing to lose my family, though I would like to keep my brother as someone I can talk to, that won't be a problem I am sure.
As far as friends go, there are only 2 that matter much, 1 is firmly already on my side, the other, probably won't care, but I know they will talk behind my back, but that is nothing new, male or female they do that with everyone they know. If it became an issue, I could deal with losing the other friend.
But, in the end I don't have much choice but to transition, I know I will never be happy without it.
Quote from: Hikari on July 23, 2011, 12:01:43 PM
I don't want to lose anything, I want to have my cake and eat it too.
in the end I don't have much choice but to transition, I know I will never be happy without it.
I know what you mean about wanting to have your cake & eat it, I would love to transition & not lose anything but on the flip side of the coin i'd hate not to transition & keep everything & everyone as i'd lack the most important thing in life. . . . . happiness, i'd rather deal with the misery of losing everything that I hold dear than the misery of being trapped in this cage that is my body.
Quote from: Stephe on July 23, 2011, 11:13:03 AM
I can't base my life and hide my identity on the fact occasionally during transition someone might giggle? O.o
My number one rule in life is that you shouldn't laugh at others unless you're willing to laugh at yourself, it's my ability to laugh at myself that keeps me going no matter what comes my way so I say let them point, giggle & laugh, they can do it to my face or behind my back as I don't care because i'm pursuing the most important thing in life, happiness
I would give up my job.
The place I live.
All of my friends.
Most of my family.
My pets.
Any money that I had.
I'd give up most of my sanity. (Sometimes I feel that I've already done that.)
I'd give up the majority of my life to live happily as a male.
I would give up anything.
and I really do think that this way is the only way it can be done, accepting in my mind, that nothing is more important, and all the other experiences are temporary, all the other dreams cease to exist if they go against this purpouse of serenity.
I didn't know I was trans, but I always knew on some level I'd be facing this choice. I took the coward's way out and never built up anything to begin with. My entire life, I never let anyone get close to me for fear they'd turn on me.
A decade of suicidal depression shows just how smart that plan was.
So I guess I decided to prepay mine. I'm kind of backwards that way. :P
This is a really hard question. I am willing to give up my friends. That's no problems since I don't have many and we barely speak. I'm 19 and never had a job yet so I can't answer from that standpoint right now. I am willing to lose my family and even at the expense that I am kicked out of their will and I am willing to lose the only love I have to help pay for it and that would be video games. I'm willing to be harassed at other people's expense.
I'm willing to give up my attractiveness to women.
I don't know so much about the willing part but from the way that I was looked at even though I was only dressed middle way of the gender spectrum at x-mas with cousins I will probably loose some of my extended family but I don't personally care about that part of the family. I only see them every 2-3 years anyway but if it means me being happy or me being upset with myself whatever it takes for me to be happy. I'm planning to quit this job after finding a better job and making more money in my future anyway so my current job and some family and my apartment I can find other places to live. Don't have any real attached friends so thats easy to give up friendship, my sanity is already gone so big deal with sanity being gone I make it through life without sanity anyway. Don't have a whole lot of money so do what I can with what I got and go as far as I can as I make money do more.
I'm giving up the military, and likely a good chunk of my friends from that time. I still hold out ope that many of the will surprise me, since I think the homophobia (and by extension, transphobia) in the military is largely macho posturing instead of real malice (though I've seen that as well). Still, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
This has been my bedrock and purpose for living for the last six years. It's hard to give up. "War is a force that gives us meaning" in ways I don't think civilian life will ever capture. But living for war is ultimately self destructive I've come to feel.
Simply WET...What Ever It Takes
Personally, I find that old-time phrases like "Can't have your cake and eat it too." are absolutely meaningless. If I wanted to, I could bake a cake, eat half of it, save half of it, do whatever I want to with it; it's my cake and I live in America, which is thankfully a country that permits me to have a hayday with whatever cake I bake. Same with transitioning; I have never made a mistake concerning Transitioning, I've never caused someone to pop out a child, I've never been married, I've never broken up with someone, I've never gotten into debt or got into trouble with the law, never joined the military, haven't chosen an incorrect school path...it's because literally, I have the ability to plan ahead more than all the people who make these mistakes and regret them later, despite me having gone through just as much emotional abuse and pressure to conform as anyone else. I literally have the free range to do whatever I want to with my life (with the exception of affording it all), and I plan on doing just that without a single negative - if any negatives happen, it'll be because someone else broke the law against me and I'll be able to sue them (sadly, it hasn't been that easy with two doctors who have maimed my face while drunk during FFS procedures because our laws protect doctors like crazy, but oh well.)
Its just one huge reason so many people on this forum can't stand me, and it's because more than most people, I don't make mistakes and I have such an open playing field. So many people internalize the guilt from divorcing a wife or abandoning a child, and then put that negativity on my intentions to have a few facial surgeries and get put on hormones, just because it'll add something positive to my life, a life that someone else will never achieve after years of marriage, divorce, religion, debt, military, masculine aging, confusing therapy, or whatever. It's more than this entire forum, my family, my friends, the entire world is against me, I've never had one person, in my entire life, who, concerning anything, has said "I support you on that and I'm going to help you in whatever way I can." Wether its parents paying for college, a best friend helping out a roommate, a dead grandma giving someone a car, an uncle giving their nephew a job, I've never had any of that, and it's because either A. I was born into a really unlucky family situation, and B. So many people are jealous of how I don't make mistakes that are designed to hold me back, and they literally want me to conform to what mistakes they've made because their happiness is based on denial. However, I plan on having my cake, eating it, saving some for later, eating again, pooping it out, and continue to bake cakes for the rest of my life. I'm not conforming to anyone's old fashioned beliefs and I'm not going to have any prices to pay.
"I don't make mistakes" You'll be eating those words someday, I hope they make a nice cake. Hugs, Devlyn
The law of identity does not permit you to have your cake and eat it, too. Whatever portion of cake is consumed, you no longer have that portion. The law of causality does not permit you to eat your cake before you have it.
Wow R&T that's a pretty intense way to live. Like walking a tightrope, I imagine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis)
By the way, R&T Place, posting that joining the military is a mistake directly under two soldiers posts is a classic case of putting your foot in your mouth. It seems to me that exhibiting inconsiderate behaviour like that could cause people to become offended or dislike you. Just my opinion, hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: R&T-Place on January 07, 2012, 05:21:12 PM
Personally, I find that old-time phrases like "Can't have your cake and eat it too." are absolutely meaningless. If I wanted to, I could bake a cake, eat half of it, save half of it, do whatever I want to with it; it's my cake and I live in America, which is thankfully a country that permits me to have a hayday with whatever cake I bake. Same with transitioning; I have never made a mistake concerning Transitioning, I've never caused someone to pop out a child, I've never been married, I've never broken up with someone, I've never gotten into debt or got into trouble with the law, never joined the military, haven't chosen an incorrect school path...it's because literally, I have the ability to plan ahead more than all the people who make these mistakes and regret them later, despite me having gone through just as much emotional abuse and pressure to conform as anyone else. I literally have the free range to do whatever I want to with my life (with the exception of affording it all), and I plan on doing just that without a single negative - if any negatives happen, it'll be because someone else broke the law against me and I'll be able to sue them (sadly, it hasn't been that easy with two doctors who have maimed my face while drunk during FFS procedures because our laws protect doctors like crazy, but oh well.)
Its just one huge reason so many people on this forum can't stand me, and it's because more than most people, I don't make mistakes and I have such an open playing field. So many people internalize the guilt from divorcing a wife or abandoning a child, and then put that negativity on my intentions to have a few facial surgeries and get put on hormones, just because it'll add something positive to my life, a life that someone else will never achieve after years of marriage, divorce, religion, debt, military, masculine aging, confusing therapy, or whatever. It's more than this entire forum, my family, my friends, the entire world is against me, I've never had one person, in my entire life, who, concerning anything, has said "I support you on that and I'm going to help you in whatever way I can." Wether its parents paying for college, a best friend helping out a roommate, a dead grandma giving someone a car, an uncle giving their nephew a job, I've never had any of that, and it's because either A. I was born into a really unlucky family situation, and B. So many people are jealous of how I don't make mistakes that are designed to hold me back, and they literally want me to conform to what mistakes they've made because their happiness is based on denial. However, I plan on having my cake, eating it, saving some for later, eating again, pooping it out, and continue to bake cakes for the rest of my life. I'm not conforming to anyone's old fashioned beliefs and I'm not going to have any prices to pay.
:eusa_clap:
Wow... just wow.
To pay for SRS...I had to put up with my mother's nagging, and...it was one hell of a price.
@R&T-Place: I don't view my marriage, my children, or my religious experiences with regards to transition as mistakes. Do I regret the divorce? Yes. But the marriage and the children I sired? No.
Hi,
I did not transition as trans people do tho you may as well say i did pay & will pay till i drop dead. iv about 20 years to go maybe.
i knew i would pay in a number of ways just what that ment was 8 years of ....Hell.... one marrage gone . was going to lose one of two sons tho after many years that looks safe . tho you can say as a family we are still tight, still see each other & do have time together, so yes iv paid to be a woman & even being I S did not make a difference in what we went through & what we have now, or lost,
was this worth the payout.
..... YES.....because i dont have to prove who i am ,
...noeleena...
After testing the waters a few years ago I would have to walk away from everything, a 23 year marriage, 8 grandchildren, home, work OH and of course the nasty junk hanging between my legs ;)
Quote from: R&T-Place on January 07, 2012, 05:21:12 PM
Its just one huge reason so many people on this forum can't stand me, and it's because more than most people, I don't make mistakes and I have such an open playing field.
Actually, I wouldn't say people here can't stand you. It probably would be more accurate to say many people here do not trust what you have to say because you have lied many times about your past and now it's like crying wolf. We have no idea when you're lying or telling the truth.
You have been a plastic surgery consultant ( https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,101898.msg753923.html#msg753923 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,101898.msg753923.html#msg753923) ), a public speaker for stealth transitioning, an actor, author, media host, musician, an activist ( https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,102000.msg757201.html#msg757201 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,102000.msg757201.html#msg757201) ), and someone who was offered a million dollars to be in movies ( https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,102943.msg766079.html#msg766079 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,102943.msg766079.html#msg766079) ).
So, as you can see, it isn't because people do not like you as a personal issue...it's just that you have dug yourself so deep in lies that no one can really take your word on anything as serious.
I think you need to repair your image here first rather than thinking people "don't like you" because you do everything so perfectly.
Quote from: R&T-Place on January 07, 2012, 05:21:12 PM
Personally, I find that old-time phrases like "Can't have your cake and eat it too." are absolutely meaningless. If I wanted to, I could bake a cake, eat half of it, save half of it, do whatever I want to with it; it's my cake and I live in America, which is thankfully a country that permits me to have a hayday with whatever cake I bake. Same with transitioning; I have never made a mistake concerning Transitioning, I've never caused someone to pop out a child, I've never been married, I've never broken up with someone, I've never gotten into debt or got into trouble with the law, never joined the military, haven't chosen an incorrect school path...it's because literally, I have the ability to plan ahead more than all the people who make these mistakes and regret them later, despite me having gone through just as much emotional abuse and pressure to conform as anyone else. I literally have the free range to do whatever I want to with my life (with the exception of affording it all), and I plan on doing just that without a single negative - if any negatives happen, it'll be because someone else broke the law against me and I'll be able to sue them (sadly, it hasn't been that easy with two doctors who have maimed my face while drunk during FFS procedures because our laws protect doctors like crazy, but oh well.)
Its just one huge reason so many people on this forum can't stand me, and it's because more than most people, I don't make mistakes and I have such an open playing field. So many people internalize the guilt from divorcing a wife or abandoning a child, and then put that negativity on my intentions to have a few facial surgeries and get put on hormones, just because it'll add something positive to my life, a life that someone else will never achieve after years of marriage, divorce, religion, debt, military, masculine aging, confusing therapy, or whatever. It's more than this entire forum, my family, my friends, the entire world is against me, I've never had one person, in my entire life, who, concerning anything, has said "I support you on that and I'm going to help you in whatever way I can." Wether its parents paying for college, a best friend helping out a roommate, a dead grandma giving someone a car, an uncle giving their nephew a job, I've never had any of that, and it's because either A. I was born into a really unlucky family situation, and B. So many people are jealous of how I don't make mistakes that are designed to hold me back, and they literally want me to conform to what mistakes they've made because their happiness is based on denial. However, I plan on having my cake, eating it, saving some for later, eating again, pooping it out, and continue to bake cakes for the rest of my life. I'm not conforming to anyone's old fashioned beliefs and I'm not going to have any prices to pay.
Kia Ora R&T
::) James Joyce once wrote "Mistakes are the portals of discovery !"
::) I can only wish you well on your journey of self 'discovery' !
Metta Zenda :)
Never really thought about it but I guess I'm willing to lose the comfort I have with my family. I don't think I'll lose them completely ( i hope not ), but I know things will never be the same. I'm ready to lose a lot of my friends ( most are drug attics so no big deal there i guess, thought kind of sad ). I'm also willing to give up the comfort I had as a male ( always felt i was somewhat attractive, but unlikely to carry over into womanhood XD).