So I've just been thinking lately about the well-known fact that if FTMs want to keep the majority of secondary sex characteristics that testosterone will give them, they must essentially stay on testosterone their entire life (and on the opposite side of the spectrum, MTFs). Because, you know, your body doesn't just suddenly start producing it on it's own (though wouldn't that be nice?). And I know you can get off of it and only certain things will really drastically change like fat redistribution, but if you also have your female-hormone-producing organs removed then you'd essentially really be dependent on hormones. Since it's kind of recommended that you do get that down-there area taken care of eventually if you plan on staying on T, and probably most of us do (I don't mean to speak for everyone, lol)...
I guess I was just wondering how you guys feel about it. Being "dependent" on T. Not like you're addicted to it or anything, but just the feeling like you're kind of "reliant" upon it. What if, in the event that you had your female organs removed and you couldn't produce either hormone, you for some reason couldn't get yourself any T. Does insurance cover T for you if you've had those organs removed, since it's a serious health risk to not have those hormones keeping you stable?
So there's kind of a few questions and speculations mixed in there, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. It's just one of those "what ifs" that kind of worries me every now and then. Not that it's something that would make me hesitate at all to go on T, it's just that I was curious to hear if anyone has similar concerns. And... I'll stop rambling now before I make no sense at all, haha.
Well my guess is, is that after uv got the stuff takn out u could switch ur gender legally to male, including ur health insurance.....................there a men that get testicular cancer and have the gonads removed so arent they dependent on T...........i mean most insurance policies cover low T for men.
I don't mind so much. We all have something we can't live without be it some medications, smokes, alochol, fav. food, etc. I guess it is just one of those things that you want to always have, but you won't really die without it.
I figure when I am an little old man, I won't care if I am taking it as long as I can still have fun and be annoying, cute, funny and flirt all at the same time. Those are the old folks I love to be around because I am always laughing. They are my role models for when I retire for good.
I don't feel dependent upon it. I look at it as I would any other medication, some things we have to take for our entire lives in order to live a normal healthy life. To me T is just like that. It's a necessity not a dependence.
As for the insurance question, that really just depends on your insurance. If you can change your gender to male they may cover it, but on the same note then there are things they may not cover that are exclusive to women. Right now, still being without surgery, i could have gone as male with my insurance carrier because my employer marked me down as male. They may have covered some of my hormones or treatments involving that, but they would not have covered my yearly exams for things like the uterus and breasts. So it's a toss up. And most insurance carriers will want to know the reason you are on T, because they could consider it a pre-existing condition depending upon the reason. Often as soon as they find out it was for HRT you will not be covered.
On the same note regarding that insurance would not have covered my yearly exams. They also would not have covered any kind of severe medical condition exclusive to females. What if I found out I had uterus cancer or breast cancer? They would not cover my treatment. If I went through the process of having my employer change my gender status to female so they would cover it I could then be in trouble with the insurance company for falsely presenting myself as male in order to have other treatments covered like the T and blood tests. In turn i could end up having to reimburse the insurance company for previous treatments covered when they assumed I was male or even being denied insurance coverage for providing false information.
Quote from: Cowboi on July 19, 2011, 10:30:14 PM
I don't feel dependent upon it. I look at it as I would any other medication, some things we have to take for our entire lives in order to live a normal healthy life. To me T is just like that. It's a necessity not a dependence.
I think of my shots exactly the same way, just a medication that I need to keep my body stable and healthy and preforming the way it should
Quote from: Elijah on July 19, 2011, 10:35:02 PM
I think of my shots exactly the same way, just a medication that I need to keep my body stable and healthy and preforming the way it should
Yeah, and maybe it's easier for some of us to do. Like for me personally my mother and my grandmother are both on medicines they have to take daily and have been my whole life. I was also diagnosed as bipolar and put on daily meds I would have had to take forever, except they found out my diagnosis was incorrect. But I was on meds for like 7 years before they figured that out. Having to take medicine to be healthy and live a regular life is just normal to me, I've been surrounded by it my whole life and been through it with things besides T so it just seems... common I guess.
Dependence isn't something I think of with being on T. For me I feel that it is a necessary medication to stay healthy. Kind of like getting one's daily vitamins.
I do worry at times though of running out, not able to get more, that kind of anxiety. Does that kind of thinking make me dependent though? ???
I know somebody who was on T for 2 or 3 years, got the changes he wanted and stopped (during this time he also got top and bottom surgery). He still has the internal bits and has been off of T for some time. As far as I know he's happy/content/satisfied with the decision.
So...you're not going to always be dependent on , and there are other options.
Hey Nygeel sorry for the question but is your friend on birth control or something then? You said he still has his internal stuff but is off T and had bottom surgery? I just hadn't thought that would be possible to get bottom surgery without a hysterectomy. Sorry if I misunderstood I'm a little sleep deprived.
Personally I look at it like cowboi and Elijah. It's just another med to me.
Have not given it a lot of thought. Have been dependent on multiple daily asthma meds for years.
QuoteI just hadn't thought that would be possible to get bottom surgery without a hysterectomy.
Doesn't it depend on which bottom surgery he got? Seems like I read a simple release does not require hysto.
No birth control, no hysterectomy. He went with phalloplasty. Also his...front hole is still there. No bottom surgery requires a hysto, but if you want one, then get one.
I suppose I am dependent on T in a way. But it's in the same way I'm "dependent" on my bipolar, anti-anxiety, and allergy medications. I agree with some of the other guys; it's just another med to me.
I think there's a stigma to taking medication and being "dependent" on it. Whether it's T or something else. I know people that refuse to take medication even though it'll improve their lives greatly just because they don't want to take it for the rest of their lives. Here's the way I look at it, even if you have to take it "forever", it's better than the alternative.
Interesting. I've thought this myself but never really brought it up. I'm not on it btw. Personally I've very much anti-pharmaceutical industry and anti-medication, with a few exceptions of course. That's just me though.
I realize it's different if in the case of people transitioning.
And if you're having a full hysterectomy I think it's that your body can't actually make any estrogen anymore. Even men have estrogen levels (especially as they get older) and not being able to produce that hormone may possibly be an issue. Of course anyone going down that path should consult heavily with their doctor.
It doesnt really bother me much. Its jus another part of life, like if you have to take antidepressants or other medicines.
well im pretty young and at first I where like.. aw how unfair..
but generally starting on T where kinda cool so I where looking forward to it every night the first week.
I do think it kinda annoying once in a while, specially the thing about getting medicin, and since right now im taking it on everyday basic, so I cant just sleep outside for 3 night without thinking about it.
but my mom got alot of medicin for all kind of things, so I feel it just part of life..
Is it true that synthetic T depends on petroleum product for its synthesis?
If so, that worries me. Petroleum products are going to get outrageously expensive, coveted, and competed for, after we peak/decline on oil, probably well within most of our lifetimes.
I haven't admitted my concern to my bf - I don't want to worry him. But I do wonder about it.
I also worry about what could happen in a medical or an elderly-care situation, later in life, if someone cannot or does not want to give him his T.
- Elizabeth
Quote from: Elizabeth A. on July 20, 2011, 07:09:32 PM
I also worry about what could happen in a medical or an elderly-care situation, later in life, if someone cannot or does not want to give him his T.
I don't have the answer to your first question, but this is a huge worry of mine. What if insurance never covers my T prescription? What if I have a hysto and later in life can't take care of myself? Will my caregivers give me T? Or will they decide to give me estrogen/progesterone HRT? I honestly don't know.
I agree with most of you where on a basic level it's just another one of those medications we need to live a healthy life. Before I reached this view though I had been really against the thought of ever having to rely on any sort of medication to maintain a healthy existence, because to me it clashed with this basic concept I had of needing to be self-sufficient (this concept I created developed after my brother had gotten a chronic disease which he needs to take medication for the rest of his life. I was young at that point and this was just something that really threw me for a loop). However in thinking about it I came to accept that my being self-sufficient is essentially impossible, because I am indeed reliant on many things outside of myself, thinks that I usually don't consider being without (family, food, healthy environment). So I was able to accept that testosterone would be just another one of those things.
I think that if for some reason I had to stop taking testosterone (say after a few years of being on it) I'd be able to handle it. It wouldn't be something that I'd want, but I think I would be able to accept it. Most of my worries as far as stopping it are that I'll have to do it because I will be barred from being allowed to get it, instead of making that decision for myself.
I see it differently. After years of having to take various medications on a daily basis, I view it as a great freedom to no longer have to worry about it. It's one less thing tying me down, burning a whole in my wallet, potentially causing problems (side effects), etc. I'm pretty reluctant to put myself back in that situation voluntarily.
This is one reason why I'm not transitioning.
Have any of you tried the natural T boosters used by body builders? I've been doing research to see if they would produce enough to replace shots. My guess is no, but I've heard some anecdotal evidence that it might.
Quote from: IowaBoy on July 20, 2011, 10:47:27 PM
Have any of you tried the natural T boosters used by body builders? I've been doing research to see if they would produce enough to replace shots. My guess is no, but I've heard some anecdotal evidence that it might.
You don't have T factories (testicles) to boost. Your body makes some T but not near enough and you still have ovaries making E. You may notice a difference but most likely, not enough to not get shots. If you have PCOS it may work for you.
As to hysterectomy for bottom surgery, it isn't necessary. I felt it necessary for my sanity to have a hysto and remove ovaries too.
Quote from: Alexmakenoise on July 20, 2011, 10:43:24 PM
I see it differently. After years of having to take various medications on a daily basis, I view it as a great freedom to no longer have to worry about it. It's one less thing tying me down, burning a whole in my wallet, potentially causing problems (side effects), etc. I'm pretty reluctant to put myself back in that situation voluntarily.
This is one reason why I'm not transitioning.
I feel this way too. Although I was never on other medications long term. Where some guys have posted that it's just part of their "healthy" existence, I feel the exact opposite. For me, it just wasn't healthy. It didn't feel "right" at all and wasn't some magic ticket to male-land for me. And the more research I did on how the human body utilizes hormones and how important balanced hormones (balanced in a personalized way - I don't think everyone is the exact same in that department) are, the more I knew it wasn't a path I needed to explore further.
To me, it's just another medication. I am already on anti-depressants, plus supplements for a genetic metabolic disorder. Both of those will be for life. Why not add a shot in there too? :-P The supplements are covered by OHIP (provincial health insurance), and the T and anti-depressants are cheap. In total, it's about $60 a month, which is not much.
Quote from: hexr on July 21, 2011, 03:00:26 AM
To me, it's just another medication. I am already on anti-depressants, plus supplements for a genetic metabolic disorder. Both of those will be for life. Why not add a shot in there too? :-P The supplements are covered by OHIP (provincial health insurance), and the T and anti-depressants are cheap. In total, it's about $60 a month, which is not much.
Heck I get my prescription from Stroheckers (which will mail pretty much anywhere in the US and is an actual pharmacy for anyone who hasn't heard of them) and pay about $65 for a bottle of T, which lasts for a few months, plus all of the needles/alcohol pads/syringes I need for that time period. It really does not have to be as expensive as some people allow it to be. If I bought it at a local pharmacy I would be paying $120 just for the T. You just have to look around for good deals with honest companies :)
Quote from: Cowboi on July 21, 2011, 09:03:56 AM
Heck I get my prescription from Stroheckers (which will mail pretty much anywhere in the US and is an actual pharmacy for anyone who hasn't heard of them) and pay about $65 for a bottle of T, which lasts for a few months, plus all of the needles/alcohol pads/syringes I need for that time period. It really does not have to be as expensive as some people allow it to be. If I bought it at a local pharmacy I would be paying $120 just for the T. You just have to look around for good deals with honest companies :)
I'll keep them in mind.
Quote from: Cowboi on July 21, 2011, 09:03:56 AM
Heck I get my prescription from Stroheckers (which will mail pretty much anywhere in the US and is an actual pharmacy for anyone who hasn't heard of them) and pay about $65 for a bottle of T, which lasts for a few months, plus all of the needles/alcohol pads/syringes I need for that time period. It really does not have to be as expensive as some people allow it to be. If I bought it at a local pharmacy I would be paying $120 just for the T. You just have to look around for good deals with honest companies :)
yup! I bought my T from wallgreens two times, it was about 106, NOT INCLUDING alcohol wipes and needles, I went to stroheckers and got my vial, AND 10 needles, AND ten alcohol wipes for I think 60 dollars. and the people there are super nice. Im gonna keep going to stroheckers untill I die, or untill they go out of buisiness, only bad thing is they dont deliver to my north carolina, so I have to send it to my dad in texas, then he mails it to me.
Quote from: Elijah on July 21, 2011, 12:08:39 PM
yup! I bought my T from wallgreens two times, it was about 106, NOT INCLUDING alcohol wipes and needles, I went to stroheckers and got my vial, AND 10 needles, AND ten alcohol wipes for I think 60 dollars. and the people there are super nice. Im gonna keep going to stroheckers untill I die, or untill they go out of buisiness, only bad thing is they dont deliver to my north carolina, so I have to send it to my dad in texas, then he mails it to me.
I feel the same way. I've already emailed them and asked for a list of states they are unable to ship to. Just so that I'll never move to those states LOL That's probably really sad, but I don't know of any other place that does it like that (vial, needles, alcohol wipes) for that price.
Does anyone know if Stroheckers ships to Florida?
Quote from: Darrin on July 21, 2011, 01:21:00 PM
Does anyone know if Stroheckers ships to Florida?
I second that question. That would be really sweet.
Quote from: LordKAT on July 21, 2011, 12:09:04 AM
You don't have T factories (testicles) to boost. Your body makes some T but not near enough and you still have ovaries making E. You may notice a difference but most likely, not enough to not get shots. If you have PCOS it may work for you.
As to hysterectomy for bottom surgery, it isn't necessary. I felt it necessary for my sanity to have a hysto and remove ovaries too.
Since you got those surgeries done, it wouldn't be healthy for you not to be on any hormones, right? Like you couldn't just decide not to take anything anymore? (just for clarification, hope you don't mind me asking)
Getting a bit off topic, but for those interested, these are the states that Stroheckers cannot currently ship to:
North Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Nebraska, West Virginia.
Quote from: henry on July 21, 2011, 01:51:24 PM
Since you got those surgeries done, it wouldn't be healthy for you not to be on any hormones, right? Like you couldn't just decide not to take anything anymore? (just for clarification, hope you don't mind me asking)
Since I have no ovaries I need to get T or E from an outside source. I could go without but that would be medically devastating in the long run.
Quote from: Adio on July 21, 2011, 01:54:45 PM
Getting a bit off topic, but for those interested, these are the states that Stroheckers cannot currently ship to:
North Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Nebraska, West Virginia.
This is not accurate, I'm not sure if any of the other states are mistakes but they do ship to Nebraska. I live there and they've been shipping to me for almost 3 years now.
Quote from: Cowboi on July 22, 2011, 09:21:35 AM
This is not accurate, I'm not sure if any of the other states are mistakes but they do ship to Nebraska. I live there and they've been shipping to me for almost 3 years now.
Glad to hear it. That's just the list that Stroheckers sent me. I didn't pull it off a website or anything. It's possible that it was just a typo.
Maybe I'm just the only guy in Nebraska they like lol.
No, honestly I know my old endo recommended them to pretty much everyone after I told her about them and several guys here still get their stuff from them to my knowledge. I haven't been on for 8 months so it has been awhile since I ordered anything. Maybe it's a newer regulation? Or a super old one they forgot to correct on their list? I'd be more curious but I'm moving to Florida anyways so, doesn't really personally effect me anymore lol.
This is one of the things that concerns me as well, I saw this video on youtube http://youtu.be/FnINNjvn1J0 (http://youtu.be/FnINNjvn1J0) and this guy talks about the potential danger of your body not handling T very well after having surgery.
He also says that you have to lower your T dose after surgery, My endo says not. I have not experienced and problems post surgery and don't believe it to be a common problem. If you don't have T receptors maybe a problem but your body will turn T to E so having to get E instead makes no sense.
The whole dependence issue is one (relatively small) part of why I don't want to go on it. That, and I'm afraid of needles to the point where I need to be sedated to get blood work or vaccinations.
The big reasons for me are that I feel like I really don't need it, and I could easily see myself not getting quick changes, and then overdosing (or trying to) on it. I've done that with just about every medication I've ever been on, specifically my antidepressants. I've kind of accepted the fact that me + drugs of any kind = bad news. So I'm just thankful that I don't want a massive amount of facial hair, and that my voice is damn deep already.
Quote from: Elizabeth A. on July 20, 2011, 07:09:32 PM
Is it true that synthetic T depends on petroleum product for its synthesis?
Can't speak for all, but generally no. Sustanon uses peanut oil, there's another similar one which uses castor oil, as well as Nebido. The only one I can think of that may stem from petrol is Testogel (or Androgel, depending where you're from).
Quote from: LordKAT on July 24, 2011, 07:09:09 PM
He also says that you have to lower your T dose after surgery, My endo says not. I have not experienced and problems post surgery and don't believe it to be a common problem. If you don't have T receptors maybe a problem but your body will turn T to E so having to get E instead makes no sense.
Actually, Dr Curtis in London (the guy who prescribed my hormones) had just this problem; he was very unlucky in that after an early hysto, no form of T would agree with him, and after about four years he had to go on E instead. However, I don't believe that kind of reaction is that common (correct me if I'm wrong). The only problem I've had post-hysto is low T levels - I had to double my dose just to stay out of lethargy.
In answer to the OP, I just see it as a necessary medication. Similar to the anti-depressants I was on for a while several years ago, although obviously T's more ongoing. I certainly function better on it than I did E.