For gay and lesbian transsexuals (or men and women of history if preferred), do you feel accepted in your respective communities? As an ftm, do you feel accepted as a gay man by other gay men? As lesbian for mtfs?
Are you out as trans to your local gay or lesbian community? How difficult is it in your experience to find another gay man or lesbian for a long term relationship? What about casual hook ups?
If you've had surgery (top or bottom), have you noticed a difference pre and post-op?
If you are out as trans, have you personally experienced any transphobia from fellow gays or lesbians?
Thank you.
I've admittedly never been 'out' as a former transsexual nor was I out about my status when I was a wee pre-op...it was just never something that seemed necessary to bring up even in womyn-only space nor did any of the peeps I was with ever question the propriety of my presence. So in that respect, I guess I felt reasonably accepted...
Let me try speak only for myself MtF, pre- and post-transition but still pre-op for 6 more weeks.
I had quite a LOT of gay male interest in me, but it eventually becoming frustrated because I'm not homosexual - yet I'm femme.
"Talking the talk, but not walking the walk".
Since transitioning that interest turned purely academic, showing curiosity but no more sexual interest. It is my personal experience that sexually speaking gay males are NOT interested in girl bits, that is why they are gay in the first place.
Being accepted as a curiosity, YES.
Being accepted, taken into their fold – NO, not really.
No more birthday invitations, or movie or theatre, shows, dining out --- all gone.
No one keen one visiting either. People stay away.
Not being exactly a freak I think, but an oddity.
As for the lesbian side? Not interested, as we are not BIO- anything.
Neo-vagina seems not the call of the day :-)
Though the same mild curiosity as with gay males.
Accepted? Not really, only as some curiosity maybe oddity.
Axelle
I never had any problem, seems to me the number of jerks and a-holes in the gay community mirrors just about every other community in the end. So too the number of real nice people. And I'm very social, so that helps.
I joined a social group of bi/lesbian women recently, still presenting as an androgynously dressed male, and they couldn't have been more welcoming. Most people respond to intent, I think, as much as looks. Mind you, I won't be "invading" any Womyn's Space™ in the near future - I'm nobody's fool but my own :).
Yes, I feel accepted in the lesbian community here. Yes, I've experienced transphobia from lesbians here. I don't make an issue about being trans. Whether lesbians here know or not, some do, some don't, the rest who knows?
I find I am TOLERATED as much as I am tolerated by cis-folks --- but being ACCEPTED is written on a different page.
Yes, folks a friendly and respectful for sure, but also in some sense reserved i.e. YOU DO NOT BELONG.
It's as if you visit rich people and you are not considered rich by their standard. So you are tolerated for a while, a visit, but not really embraced --- because you don't quite fit.
That has been my experience without exception.
When I was in boy-guise it was VERY different, because (I guess) I was an "object of desire".
Lesbians want a bio-vag-female and gay-males a bio-penis-male.
A simple truth so far I've received it.
Axelle
FWIW, this is an area of activism for me. I talk about trans issues on my radio show a lot with the intent of educating people and sensitizing them to the crap trans people have to deal with. This particular gay cis male tries to be extremely welcoming to trans folk as do my close gay & lesbian friends.
Quote from: Axélle on August 04, 2011, 02:19:28 PM
Lesbians want a bio-vag-female and gay-males a bio-penis-male.
A simple truth so far I've received it.
Perhaps a 'simple truth' where you are, but far from a truism the world over...and I say that having ~15 years of post-op experience in the lesbian community plus a similar number of years in that same community pre-operatively. Admittedly, as I stated earlier, I don't discuss my medical history with a lot of people...but the lack of disclosure has not interfered with my social life.
Quote from: dalebert on August 04, 2011, 03:13:00 PM
FWIW, this is an area of activism for me. I talk about trans issues on my radio show a lot with the intent of educating people and sensitizing them to the crap trans people have to deal with. This particular gay cis male tries to be extremely welcoming to trans folk as do my close gay & lesbian friends.
That's really awesome. It's so great that there are people like yourself, and I really mean that.
I've been is lesbian bars many times, both before and after transitioning. In the before, I guess you could say I was a CD, or at least perceived as one.
In the before I was very accepted by both gays and lesbians but I doubt the lesbians accepted me as one of them. I was very close friends with one and she refused to accept me as anything but a man. A few times she told me, "You'd better not get that thing cut off!" and pointed to my crotch.
In the after, lesbians were much more distant towards me. I'd say the percentage of lesbians who would carry a conversation with me was cut in half after transitioning. Maybe before I was seen as a gay in drag, even though the women I talked to were aware I had no interest in men.
One time after we were both fully transitioned (surgeries & all), Julie and I were in an upscale club for a Valentine's dinner. The owner was lesbian and very friendly. A waitress came up to our table and asked, "What would you gentlemen like to drink?" She didn't get a very good tip but she did get an earful.
For those who are willing to strike up a conversation, I've always been accepted, tho I'm not sure as what. But there are an awful lot of lesbians who won't even talk to you.
I am accepted by gay men, feel at home with them.
I wonder if they would still accept me if I disclosed. Therein lies the rub.
Jay
Quote from: sneakersjay on August 04, 2011, 08:31:07 PM
I wonder if they would still accept me if I disclosed. Therein lies the rub.
concur...but if I don't have to discuss components of a medical history and birth defect, why do so? I figure I must be doing something (as did my surgeon) right if it isn't an issue...
In my experiences I have been very much welcomed by the lesbian community. I am pansexual in my sexuality but I do go to many LGBT events, lesbian places, etc etc. I've received opened arms from the lesbian community.
Now this is not to say that there are those out there who just doesn't like trans people. They exist. However, I find them to be a minority compared to the big picture.
Every girl or guy I date, I tell them about my trans status beforehand. I know that's highly debatable but for me, it is important they know the real me.
Even then I do not run into issues. If they decide not to pursue the relationship because im trans, then its better to know now then 2 years later.
I have just joined an online dating site, so it will be interesting to see what sort of responses I get. I figure there is a degree of anonymity so people may be more honest in their reactions. I am also moving to a much larger city, so will have a larger group of potential partners.
Karen.
Well Ann, as I said and you pointed out "the simple truth".
Then there is ALWAY a "complicated truth" and both could be valid?
As you also pointed out correctly, this may be the case in "my environment" - and so it is.
Why would I speak for an unknown to me environment? I wouldn't/couldn't.
We might always do a poll... but then so what.
It be getting just yet too complicated again.
LGBT to the power of LGBT = ??? Tekla, please!
Axelle
I don't like the LGBT
Quote from: Narela on August 07, 2011, 10:16:58 AM
I hate being surrounded by gays and I don't like the LGBT
Then at the risk of being overly blunt, I am guessing that you would NOT be a transsexual who identified as either gay or lesbian...
As to the second issue, that is something I would agree with you on, but it is not the subject of this thread.
I hate being surrounded by gays
Well if I were you I'd sure avoid SF, LA, Key West, most of NYC and I'd also avoid working in theater, show biz, interior design, the arts, cooking, and discos.
Quote from: tekla on August 07, 2011, 12:25:23 PM
I hate being surrounded by gays
Well if I were you I'd sure avoid SF, LA, Key West, most of NYC and I'd also avoid working in theater, show biz, interior design, the arts, cooking, and discos.
OK, i don't >:-)HATE >:-) Forget this
And also avoid Republican political types and right wing preachers they always seem to be finding themselves on the wrong end of the love stick.
Quote from: tekla on August 07, 2011, 02:00:28 PM
And also avoid Republican political types and right wing preachers they always seem to be finding themselves on the wrong end of the love stick.
Does that mean we should stay out of men's bathrooms (that have toe tapping stall residents) and avoid hiring a Rent Boy to carry our bags?
Quote from: Forum Admin on August 03, 2011, 10:17:44 AM
For gay and lesbian transsexuals (or men and women of history if preferred), do you feel accepted in your respective communities?
If you are out as trans, have you personally experienced any transphobia from fellow gays or lesbians?
Thank you.
I'm somewhat lost too - lol typical too general q from this particular "forum admin" - as a heterosexual MtF who more-or-less enjoys the company of both men and women I have always found gay men quite accepting of my particularly non-male identity / orientation
Quote from: dalebert on August 04, 2011, 03:13:00 PM
FWIW, this is an area of activism for me. I talk about trans issues on my radio show a lot with the intent of educating people and sensitizing them to the crap trans people have to deal with. This particular gay cis male tries to be extremely welcoming to trans folk as do my close gay & lesbian friends.
For myself, I want to thank you for that.
Quote from: Ann Onymous on August 04, 2011, 03:17:15 PM
Perhaps a 'simple truth' where you are, but far from a truism the world over...
There are some lesbians who follow the rule, "No guys, No bi's," and I expect them to reject trans-women. But there are others who do not. The "simple truth" is that your mileage may vary.
Some years ago, I had the experience of being in an online relationship with a cis-gendered lesbian. We had "the talk," and she needed to process what I told her. She came back a day later and said I was a woman and she would learn to deal with the anatomy. If I had been smarter, and she hadn't been 1/4 of the way around the world (Germany) we might be partners today.
Quote from: Lisbeth on August 08, 2011, 11:53:17 AM
There are some lesbians who follow the rule, "No guys, No bi's," and I expect them to reject trans-women. But there are others who do not. The "simple truth" is that your mileage may vary.
while it may be a YMMV situation, it is not something I have seen...my guess is that more frequently, it means no walking stereotypes and certainly no pre- or non-ops.
QuoteSome years ago, I had the experience of being in an online relationship with a cis-gendered lesbian. We had "the talk," and she needed to process what I told her. She came back a day later and said I was a woman and she would learn to deal with the anatomy. If I had been smarter, and she hadn't been 1/4 of the way around the world (Germany) we might be partners today.
Must have been in pre-op days then...there isn't anything to 'learn to deal with' post-operatively when it comes to the anatomy.