http://www.youtube.com/embed/l50l2IUENRk (http://www.youtube.com/embed/l50l2IUENRk)
I don't know if this has been posted here or not, but of course this ad made me think of you ladies.
This seems to be another case where the media has blurred drag and trans, and this commercial actually makes me sad to watch because of the obvious dysphoria these people are going through. But apparently people think this is funny?
What are your thoughts?
Oh my god..that's absolutely horrendous! I havn't seen this on TV and I hope I never do!
Quite offensive.
Not even sure what to say... ???
Made me cry. I know that desire all too well.
That's a pretty insensitive commercial for sure. I think we've all coped with feelings of biological inadequacy, because we are led to believe that certain things validate our identity, we look for that "rite of passage" that makes us "real women" or "real men." The bottom line is that rite of passage is constructed by society, and can be different from person to person.
It's too bad that most of society doesn't see it that way. Eh, it's Babylon, what you expect?! Just keep fightin' 'em. :angel:
I'd be shocked if this made it on to TV, and even more shocked if it did and didn't get a large number of complaints.
I don't find it offensive. I find it true! I'd love to deal with a period every month - not so much just to have them, but it'd mean I could bear children and that I'd actually have a vagina.
I think any person who is not really aware of trans issues would possibly view this as funny, i've lived with a transgender aunt for almost a year now and being aware of the things i am now i find this very inappropriate- especially knowing that there are people who actually do feel this way, even though i dont think happy periods are possible. But this really is insensitive even if it was a joke or something some people might really take it to heart :(
It's like they made an advert for shoes using amputee's and talking about them being people who'd love to wear a pair of shoes, let a lone a comfortable pair...
It might be true, but it's really, really insensitive.
O_o that was a strange advert... I'm not overwhelmingly offended. If they'd used Cis-women or Passable transwomen in that advert the meaning behind the ad might be lost.
As for wanting to have a period ehh maybe in exchange for fertility yeah I'd take that deal but otherwise I'm okay not having periods and begin sterile as a result. I do use it for laughs as much as I can :/
*child acting like a brat* "I'm so glad I'm sterile."
"Ever thought about having kids I did at your age?"
"IM STERILE YOU BITCH!"
I wasn't really angry I just found a stranger saying that to me offensive.
Quote from: Skyanne on August 09, 2011, 04:41:28 PM
It's like they made an advert for shoes using amputee's and talking about them being people who'd love to wear a pair of shoes, let a lone a comfortable pair...
It might be true, but it's really, really insensitive.
Very well put. The thing is, I used Always pads almost exclusively after surgery and liked them a lot. But that is particularly crass and insensitive, especially the slamming the door that says "gentlemen". God it makes me shudder just to think about it. I wonder how many complaints they got for that one?
I don't know if this add was supposed to be humorous. How would you portray a transwoman in the media and make sure everyone knows she is trans? If she's really passable, then it's not really obvious and the commercial might be confusing. It is unfortunate that drag and trans are very much associated. But when you boil it down you'd have to educate everyone to the point where our position is commonly understood in order to make a more accurate ad.
Seeing this I saw it as saying, "Yes you may find it unpleasant but there are those who would kill to go through it so please stop complaining." or if you want to be really insensitive, "Suck it up bitches, these peeps would stab a mofo to have what you have." It may not have been ideal, but I do think it's a small step in the right direction.
Quote from: Maddie Secutura on August 09, 2011, 06:08:47 PM
Seeing this I saw it as saying, "Yes you may find it unpleasant but there are those who would kill to go through it so please stop complaining." or if you want to be really insensitive, "Suck it up bitches, these peeps would stab a mofo to have what you have." It may not have been ideal, but I do think it's a small step in the right direction.
That makes a lot of sense since I was thinking that throughout the ad right up in the very end where one of them slams the door from the 'gentlemens' washroom then I just thought that was unnecessary and stupid.
Besides there is no happy period.
self rightous post & politcally incorrect, goes angainst the volcal majority thus, CENSORED
Kate D
Wow that was probably the most insensitive ad I've seen for ages just posted off a complaint e mail to always saying that if they had wanted to make a ad with real trans women talking about how much they wished they had periods that would have shown real pain! !
Quote from: Lily on August 09, 2011, 02:55:38 PM
Made me cry. I know that desire all too well.
That makes two of us... especially on days where I've just spent the entire day with my very feminine, rather voluptuous, drop dead gorgeous friend. My dysphoria tends to go off the charts when I get home. Then I see this. Ugh. What a disgusting ad!
I found it insensitive, and a poor advert.
I'm sure how the advert helps to sell the product.
It's just dumb
Cindy
Geez.... ICK! Mal de mer! This commercial IS in bad taste!
Joelene
Probably some ad executive's idea of getting transwomen involved. But then they don't live on the same planet as the rest of us. The toilet door sign was just plain offensive.
Karen.
I have never seen this advert on British TV. I sincerely doubt it was ever broadcast, not because of its insinsitivity toward trangender but because sanitary adverts tend to avoid controversy. This is simply that most women don't like open discussions of that type.
This is more the sort of advert that appears here.
Bodyform Advert (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjqZ54dxd4&feature=related#)
We get all sorts of ads here, but I doubt anyone would be game to put their company's name to that one. You'd hear the screams of outrage all the way over in the UK.
Karen.
Found this one as well. Don't normally like Mr Bean, though a major admirer of Rowen Atkinson.
Mr Bean - Bodyform advert (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UBK3vZmJHY&NR=1#)
Quote from: justmeinoz on August 10, 2011, 04:50:36 AM
Probably some ad executive's idea of getting transwomen involved. But then they don't live on the same planet as the rest of us. The toilet door sign was just plain offensive.
Karen.
That's when it sort of went over the top for me too. I understand the interpretation that this is almost a sad, "it could be alot worse, ladies", type ad for cis women. (that's still weird, imo, but I guess not as offensive) The bathroom door sealed the deal though.
The final door scene puts the nail in it. Insensitive is being polite... If I used half the adjectives that I want to describe the person who made this commercial, I would probably be banned.
I did some thinking about this ad and I've realized something rather important: it fails to reach cis-women on their terms. Women who get periods in general have nothing to do with the challenges of trans-women. Each subset has it's own set of problems neither of which either side can fully appreciate.
Conclusion: it's not a very good pad ad.
I was kinda stunned when I saw this..... hooly crap. I don't know what the f*** they were trying to do here... Trying to brig trans and drag issues into the mainstream, trying to tell female-born women to be grateful for it, trying to get rise out of their customers by using transwomen and drag queens as a punchline.
Either way. It left me with a pretty horrible feeling. I mean, somewhere in the back of my head I was thinking "Maaybe this isn't so bad", until the end when the washroom door slammed shut. Like they're insisting transwomen are trapped in that labelled room.
Welp. I'm not buying anything from Always.
Quote from: Ryan J on August 10, 2011, 11:26:55 PM
Either way. It left me with a pretty horrible feeling. I mean, somewhere in the back of my head I was thinking "Maaybe this isn't so bad", until the end when the washroom door slammed shut. Like they're insisting transwomen are trapped in that labelled room.
Agreed. I mean I can see that they were trying for a different an attention getting idea and I don't sense that they meant it offensively but either way it was pretty offensive and really pretty uncalled for, especially the ending. I'd say I won't buy from them but I never did even before, I always chose the cheap stuff instead
Is that for real, its not a joke or something? I can't imagine any company running something like that. Its bad.
Looks like we have a consensus here on the 'gross'. Any cis-women out there with comments? I know that some of you transwomen are still married to one and they are also on this forum!
Joelene
After watching it, I thought about it. Then I watched it again and thought some more. If an ad agent had shown me this I would have probably frown a shoe at them. I can't find a nice way of looking at it.
oh my god, I am one who it takes alot to actually offend. This ad was enough to irritate me. That was one of the most insensitive ads I have ever seen.
Quote from: SnailPace on August 09, 2011, 02:22:01 PM
What are your thoughts?
Didn't think I'd ever see that! But don't include me in the group of people who wish they could have a period. Then again, would I take that in trade for a natal female body and social acceptance? Lemme think about it...
Quote from: Joelene9 on August 10, 2011, 11:57:14 PM
Looks like we have a consensus here on the 'gross'. Any cis-women out there with comments? I know that some of you transwomen are still married to one and they are also on this forum!
Joelene
periods are gross and there's nothing good about them, as someone who does not want children at all i dnt really see the use for them at least as far as my body is concerned. Im 20 years old and ive had mine since i was 11 and at least in my opinion they get old after the first year or so
I've heard enough ciswomen whine about their periods to the point that I think I'm better off without one. Well unless I could get preggo...
I didn't really find it too offensive.
It clearly situates us as not "real" women and therefore beneath "real" women. This reifies the offensive notion that we are "men masquerading as women," especially the scene where the person with the shaved head takes off earrings. This is extremely harmful to our community as this notion is used to justify our exclusion from gendered spaces and to justify discrimination against us. The amputee analogy was spot on.
Quote from: valyn_faer on August 11, 2011, 09:15:24 AM
It clearly situates us as not "real" women and therefore beneath "real" women.
If you want to use the hierarchy angle, you could say transwomen are better than ciswomen because they aren't strapped down with days and even weeks per month with menstruation and PMS.
I grew up in a house with five women, four sisters and my mom. Back then no one spoke of things like this so male born people were kept pretty much in the dark. All I knew was there were times when walking into the house was like walking into a war zone. I thought they were, at times, nuts. And while I longed to be a girl, I never wanted to be like my mom or sisters. I have no problem with this life, outside the stigma crap.
Quote from: SnailPace on August 09, 2011, 02:22:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/embed/l50l2IUENRk (http://www.youtube.com/embed/l50l2IUENRk)
I don't know if this has been posted here or not, but of course this ad made me think of you ladies.
This seems to be another case where the media has blurred drag and trans, and this commercial actually makes me sad to watch because of the obvious dysphoria these people are going through. But apparently people think this is funny?
What are your thoughts?
I wouldn't demonize the commercial so quickly. The only reason why I state this is because of the youtube videos following the end of the commercial. Did you see them? Everysingle one of them were done by amateur people who fit the commercial mold perfectly.
The homemade videos were "Azeri Transsexual show" (that looks just like one of the girls in the commercial, "Tahiri Crossdresser" (which is a crossdresser with a strong pantyhose fetish), "T-girl in a Bikini Mirror", "Tranvestite Fu**ing in bed" (pretty self explanatory), "->-bleeped-<-s", Qgirls-On the floor" (ts strippers), "->-bleeped-<- Dating Service" (i.e., escort service), "Echoes, ->-bleeped-<-s", "->-bleeped-<-s in Cinema" (which was the least offensive video).
It's no wonder Always made a video like this. There are tons of videos out there filmed by ->-bleeped-<-s, crossdressers, and transsexuals who feuled the inspiration of the commercial.
So my question I have is: Who do really point the finger at?
Quote from: Julie Marie on August 11, 2011, 01:52:38 PM
If you want to use the hierarchy angle, you could say transwomen are better than ciswomen because they aren't strapped down with days and even weeks per month with menstruation and PMS.
Menstruation? No.
PMS? Yes.
Actually everyone has "that time of the month" (yes, even cis-males), it's unfortunately part of our biology. There are also some HRT dosing schedules that actually cycle their meds to simulate a cis-female cycle - so anything's possible.
As for the advert, I thought it was pretty stupid. Stupid enough that I can't believe someone went to college for four years, got a marketing degree and made that crap. We've all seen clearly "home made" commericals on TV, you expect them to be lacking. Someone actually got paid, probably A LOT of, money to come up with that crap.
Sure I was offended, because the commerical itself sucked, not becuase it appeared anti-trans. It would have to not suck first before I felt any other offense over it.
Just plain idiotic, and not something you would expect in this day and age. It looks like it belongs in the 1960s or 1970s. Whoever made this advert should be ashamed of themselves, but I doubt that they are.
Quote from: Julie Marie on August 11, 2011, 01:52:38 PM
If you want to use the hierarchy angle, you could say transwomen are better than ciswomen because they aren't strapped down with days and even weeks per month with menstruation and PMS.
I grew up in a house with five women, four sisters and my mom. Back then no one spoke of things like this so male born people were kept pretty much in the dark. All I knew was there were times when walking into the house was like walking into a war zone. I thought they were, at times, nuts. And while I longed to be a girl, I never wanted to be like my mom or sisters. I have no problem with this life, outside the stigma crap.
"Strapped down"? Hardly. While I don't necessarily take the following view, I would hardly say that ciswomen are "strapped down" by menstruation or PMS. I have four sisters as well, by the way. Some scholars have argued, and specifically one anthropologist whose name escapes me at the moment, that PMS is largely a social construct. Her argument is based on examinations of other cultures in which she found the typical, western PMS behavioral phenomenon to be notably absent. She argued that the behavioral response to PMS in many western societies is learned, socially accepted, and even encouraged, and, because of this, is socially expected. When a particular behavioral response is socially expected, it becomes problematic for those who don't exhibit such behavior. This creates social pressure to conform to what is perceived to be the "normal" behavior. In this case, a particular PMS behavioral experience. Again, I'm not saying I take this view, but there are scholars who have argued this.
I had a co-worker just the other day tell me that I'm "lucky" that I don't have to deal with PMS and "raging hormones." I didn't bother to point out to her that my hormone levels are basically that of a 12 or 13 year old girl and that I am going through a second puberty at the age of 30 while going through college, yet, despite that, still maintain a 4.13 GPA. I also didn't bother to go off on a rant, rattling off numerous statistics which illustrate how much more discrimination and oppression us trans folk experience than ciswomen ever have in this country (the US or the UK, really)--how much more likely we are to lose or be denied employment or harassed and/or discriminated in the workplace, how much higher suicide rates are for us, how much more likely we are to be raped, murdered, or sexually assaulted, as well as the discrimination we often face in navigating gendered spaces prior to, during, and for some of us even after, our transition. And this is really just the tip of the iceberg. I would gladly trade all the discrimination we face, gender dysphoria, etc., for some discomfort from PMS and menstruation. Yeah. . . I'm ever so lucky that I was born in the wrong body and that I live in such an intolerant, unaccepting society. Yay me. :P
Edit::
Caveat: I really want to add that I'm not trying to bemoan our sorry lot in life or to encourage anyone to wallow in a sense of victimhood. There are some transwomen and transmen out there who are doing some pretty amazing things and I plan to be one of them. However, it is important not to gloss over the discrimination we experience that is very different from that of ciswomen--and cismen, for that matter.
Happy period? The only happy part of a period is when it ends.
The "ad" its insensitive to all parts involved. But it seems to be either a rejected ad or a fake one just to stir up people.
Aside from the bad taste, the only good part of the ad, the surprising phrase 'have a happy period' was nicked from Red Dwarf
Have a fantastic period - Red Dwarf - BBC comedy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEj31njaeX0#)
I don't really know why people get offended at every little thing they see. It's silly but it's not really going to change anything. But everyone wants to be *so* offended at every little thing. Oh well. I don't know if you realized but the media has like... always misrepresented everything.
Anyway, I never understood the period envy. If only women were capable of vomiting, would you want to vomit as well? There are a lot of gross things about the human body and sorry, periods are one of them.
Quote from: pretty on August 13, 2011, 02:34:58 AM
Anyway, I never understood the period envy. If only women were capable of vomiting, would you want to vomit as well? There are a lot of gross things about the human body and sorry, periods are one of them.
I thought about it growing up, but sharing a house with a pre-menopausal mother and two sisters, I had a change of heart of this. My mom and her friends would talk about their menstruation woes and remedies over coffee while us kids were playing nearby. I, being the oldest, was the only one that understood the conversations. My brother has been married 4 times since then and still does not understand this process! My sisters found out very fast with their first period. Luckily, I was in the Navy when those explosions occurred!
Joelene
Procter&Gamble confirmed it as fake, see the second top comment.
ALWAYS_crying.mov (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l50l2IUENRk&feature=player_embedded#)
That's interesting. A new form of crime? Adscam? I wonder if it did hit P&G products?
Cindy
Quote from: sneasel on August 13, 2011, 03:45:12 AM
Procter&Gamble confirmed it as fake, see the second top comment.
ALWAYS_crying.mov (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l50l2IUENRk&feature=player_embedded#)
Thank you for finding out that it is not a real advert!
And yes... let's just laugh it off instead of cry over it. There's a word in Japanese that means something like "laugh and make it fly away"—let's do exactly that. Otherwise we'd be sad all the time :) (considering that probably over 99% of the world doesn't understand transgender stuff)
About 7 yeas ago, a similar theme was adopted in pad advertisement featuring Ha Ri SU, the most famous transgender celebrity here in Korea.
newhalf Harisu in menstrual pads advertisements (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M02fyfDrHM4#)
The narration in Korean basically says like "I want to have my period, because I am a woman."
All of her ads became big hits in Korea. I do not understand well why most ad producers in UK or other western countries even try to deride social minorities. By derision, they can not sell anything well. There are many other ways of featuring gender minorities in making successful commercial ads.
Harisu first gained public attention in 2001, after appearing in a television commercial for DoDo cosmetics. The commercial was a big success and ended up launching her career, allowing her to branch out into other fields such as music and acting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harisu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harisu)
http://youtu.be/93JRYf5f0aI (http://youtu.be/93JRYf5f0aI)
Barbie~~
<<<<<<<<<<<<<Harisu ^.^
There's a famous transsexual singer in Japan too called Haruna Ai. You can see her web site here together with a tiny little music video of her http://www.avexnet.or.jp/haruna-ai/index.html (http://www.avexnet.or.jp/haruna-ai/index.html)
And in Japan there's this show where they get some teenage boys and then put make-up, wig, pretty clothes etc. on them to make them look just like girls. The whole show emphasizes throughout that they are boys. I think there might be an outcry if a show like that were to be shown in the West.
So in a sense it's accepted in Japan... but it is still also somewhat acceptable to talk about transsexuals in a not-very-respectful way, which isn't acceptable in the West.
It's almost like if you're pretty then you're accepted. If not then it's okay to laugh at you.
So in terms of actual social acceptance, I think the Western countries are actually further ahead than Asia...
Quote from: apple pie on August 13, 2011, 04:33:43 AM
It's almost like if you're pretty then you're accepted. If not then it's okay to laugh at you.
So in terms of actual social acceptance, I think the Western countries are actually further ahead than Asia...
Many people here have said that transgender people could not be accepted by Koreans so well if Ha Ri Su were not so much pretty. The stereotype on M2F transsexual is that M2F have to be prettier than ordinary young women, even than entertainment stars. This initial expectation was created by Ha Ri Su. A lot of plastic surgery, including Ha Ri Su.
Although I have never been to any 'Transgender Bar' here, some of my colleagues said to me that most m2f transger employees there were so much prettier, and they confessed that they were awed by the fact that men can be more feminine than biological female. That is the power of plastic surgery. Korea is famous for it, and many Chinese and Japanese women visit here for that. Among plastic surgeons, successful surgery for m2f transsexual is their ultimate goal. Once they get a fame from m2f, the rumor quickly spreads to biological women, guaranteeing their business success. M2f transsexual are a benchmark for plastic surgeons here, as m2f are so much difficult and tricky to satisify after the surgery.
In my personal experience, Asian people are more acceptable than Westerners. I surmise that the diffierence basically comes from religion. Judo-christianism and muslism are infamous for their dogmatism, whereas Buddhism is generally open-minded and tolerant. When I was in the US, a few Catholics were vitually violent against my crossdressing. This kind of offensiveness has never happened to me in Korea. Even most catholics were more tolerant than ordinary people here.
A most famous Japanese crossdresser is Ikko. She/he was appointed as honorary goodwill ambassador for Korea: http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2009/03/03/2009030361002.html (http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2009/03/03/2009030361002.html)
This kind of news still can not be heard from the western countries.
Barbie~~
Hmmm I am not so sure that Buddhism makes people tolerant of LGBT stuff... I seem to have heard more than a few prominent Buddhist figures such as Hsing Yun speaking out against homosexuality for example, and even making a remark to the effect of "when I go to Western countries I can't openly criticize homosexuality but here in Asia I can", which I think is kind of true. You can't really say anything unfavourable in the West without being labelled homophobic, but in Asia there's a higher chance you can get away with it still. With transsexuals, the media can still use the wrong pronouns without starting a storm.
And well, Thailand, a heavily Buddhist country except in the south, is famous for its kathoeys. You would think that would make Thailand accepting of transsexuals, but not so... yes they are viewed in a Buddhist manner, but in the sense that they are considered to have done something wrong in their past lives and that's why they end up being transsexual.
But yes, Christianity and Islam are clearly against LGBT whereas Buddhism doesn't exactly have a clear dogma that says the same thing.
Quote from: Cindy James on August 13, 2011, 03:48:31 AM
That's interesting. A new form of crime? Adscam? I wonder if it did hit P&G products?
Cindy
Whomever made that can be hit for a trademark violation and can be sued. The 'Always' logo and font style are registered by P&G. Try that to Disney Corp. products and see how fast the lawyers come to your door! There will be more spoofs of products and services to come and some of those will be in as bad taste as this one.
Joelene
The legal requirement of 'parody' are such that it's highly doubtful they will be fined. C&D is about the most P&G can do.
Quote from: tekla on August 13, 2011, 05:36:59 PM
The legal requirement of 'parody' are such that it's highly doubtful they will be fined. C&D is about the most P&G can do.
All that's going to do is attract more attention to it, P&G is better off doing nothing and hoping it quietly goes away.
Where's Ann when you need a lawyer to explain what a professor of mine called the "there ought to be a law law"? :)
Quote from: valyn_faer on August 12, 2011, 09:33:55 AMSome scholars have argued, and specifically one anthropologist whose name escapes me at the moment, that PMS is largely a social construct. Her argument is based on examinations of other cultures in which she found the typical, western PMS behavioral phenomenon to be notably absent. She argued that the behavioral response to PMS in many western societies is learned, socially accepted, and even encouraged, and, because of this, is socially expected.
This may be true, but it is definitely true that a lot of women (and trans men) are in misery DURING their periods (or right before the bleeding starts). I was one of them. And my moods were definitely affected. I wasn't a raging madman, just extremely depressed for a couple of days before the bleeding began.
I used to joke that I didn't get PMS every month; I got MS. Not multiple sclerosis, of course, but "menstrual syndrome." (This was not meant to be a joke at the expense of people with multiple sclerosis; most initialisms have multiple meanings, and I was making up my own.)
Do drag queens in drag use the men's room or the ladies' room? Or does it vary from person to person?
Quote from: Arch on August 13, 2011, 05:54:58 PM
Do drag queens in drag use the men's room or the ladies' room? Or does it vary from person to person?
Every gay bar I've been in, it doesn't seem to matter...
Quote from: regan on August 13, 2011, 05:57:44 PM
Every gay bar I've been in, it doesn't seem to matter...
Interesting.
while i can definitely see the side where transwomen (and other people with a conscience) would take offense, i also see it as a bitch slap towards FAAB people, reminding them that there are those that desire for one of the most "unpleasant" things in life. i can imagine you girls' dysphoria over the subject (because i have mine over male issues) but i can't imagine exactly how you feel about the ad. i don't necessarily find the message offensive, more the execution. what i can say with certainty is all of you are prettier than the women (or men, if they identify as such) filmed in the commercial.
Quote from: RyanThomas on August 13, 2011, 11:25:22 PM
while i can definitely see the side where transwomen (and other people with a conscience) would take offense, i also see it as a bitch slap towards FAAB people, reminding them that there are those that desire for one of the most "unpleasant" things in life. i can imagine you girls' dysphoria over the subject (because i have mine over male issues) but i can't imagine exactly how you feel about the ad. i don't necessarily find the message offensive, more the execution. what i can say with certainty is all of you are prettier than the women (or men, if they identify as such) filmed in the commercial.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
all in all i think it was done neither for humour nor a serious "advocate" message but sheer shock value, and i can understand why you are all so upset over being the object of that shock.
I am a lot happyier now that it is not a real advert that will be going out here though u have to wonder who gave the go ahead for it to get to filming stage
why you are all so upset over being the object of that shock.
They were the vehicle (at best) not the object of the joke.
Quote from: barbie on August 13, 2011, 07:48:32 AM
Many people here have said that transgender people could not be accepted by Koreans so well if Ha Ri Su were not so much pretty. The stereotype on M2F transsexual is that M2F have to be prettier than ordinary young women, even than entertainment stars.
Sorry for the delayed response on this, but it seems to be the case here in the U.S. as well; at least from what I've seen. When I chopped my hair off, quite a few ciswomen were kind of baffled by it, like I have to be hyperfeminine, but they don't. Men, however, don't seem to care. I see women literally every day who have short hair. In fact, it's not uncommon to see girls with shaved heads here. I live in Oregon and most people in my town don't seem to care at all if a ciswoman has a shaved head. They tend to just chock it up to the hippy lifestyle that is common in Oregon. It's like we have to be even more feminine than ciswomen do, even in a town where being a grungy hippy girl who doesn't wear makeup and has dirty looking dreads or a shaved head is a common phenomenon. ::)
Quote from: valyn_faer on August 15, 2011, 09:48:04 AM
Sorry for the delayed response on this, but it seems to be the case here in the U.S. as well; at least from what I've seen. When I chopped my hair off, quite a few ciswomen were kind of baffled by it, like I have to be hyperfeminine, but they don't. Men, however, don't seem to care. I see women literally every day who have short hair. In fact, it's not uncommon to see girls with shaved heads here. I live in Oregon and most people in my town don't seem to care at all if a ciswoman has a shaved head. They tend to just chock it up to the hippy lifestyle that is common in Oregon. It's like we have to be even more feminine than ciswomen do, even in a town where being a grungy hippy girl who doesn't wear makeup and has dirty looking dreads or a shaved head is a common phenomenon. ::)
not to justify their prejudice, but what they're probably thinking is "if you wanted to shave your head and wear baggy pants every day, why didn't you just stay a man?" they don't understand that gender =/= expression or presentation and that being a woman =/= wanting to wear dresses.
Quote from: -Ryan- on August 15, 2011, 04:07:42 PM
not to justify their prejudice, but what they're probably thinking is "if you wanted to shave your head and wear baggy pants every day, why didn't you just stay a man?" they don't understand that gender =/= expression or presentation and that being a woman =/= wanting to wear dresses.
Yeah, it's weird. It's as though when they think of ciswomen, woman =/= wanting to wear a dress and be super feminine all the time, but when they think of transwomen, it does. I'm sure it just has to do with ignorance and stereotyping and essentializing us. It's like when someone asks me if I know so-and-so trans person in town. "Yep, I know all trans people everywhere in the world. We all know each other and we do have a special little club." ::)
Quote from: valyn_faer on August 15, 2011, 07:55:04 PM
Yeah, it's weird. It's as though when they think of ciswomen, woman =/= wanting to wear a dress and be super feminine all the time, but when they think of transwomen, it does. I'm sure it just has to do with ignorance and stereotyping and essentializing us. It's like when someone asks me if I know so-and-so trans person in town. "Yep, I know all trans people everywhere in the world. We all know each other and we do have a special little club." ::)
well, because their physical sex has always matched their internal gender, they don't know what it's like to "know" you are the opposite of what you seem. how can you explain being a woman exactly? anyways, i feel for you but also understand where "everyone else" is coming from when they don't get us.
Quote from: -Ryan- on August 15, 2011, 08:08:15 PM
well, because their physical sex has always matched their internal gender, they don't know what it's like to "know" you are the opposite of what you seem. how can you explain being a woman exactly? anyways, i feel for you but also understand where "everyone else" is coming from when they don't get us.
Yeah exactly, obviously we understand it because that's what we are. How do you expect other people to learn something that has nothing to do with them?
Quote from: valyn_faer on August 15, 2011, 09:48:04 AM
Sorry for the delayed response on this, but it seems to be the case here in the U.S. as well; at least from what I've seen. When I chopped my hair off, quite a few ciswomen were kind of baffled by it, like I have to be hyperfeminine, but they don't. Men, however, don't seem to care. I see women literally every day who have short hair. In fact, it's not uncommon to see girls with shaved heads here. I live in Oregon and most people in my town don't seem to care at all if a ciswoman has a shaved head. They tend to just chock it up to the hippy lifestyle that is common in Oregon. It's like we have to be even more feminine than ciswomen do, even in a town where being a grungy hippy girl who doesn't wear makeup and has dirty looking dreads or a shaved head is a common phenomenon. ::)
When I was in the US, I sometimes happened to watch talk shows feautring m2f trassexual. Still, most people around me there did not tell clearly between gays and m2f transsexuals.
In my country, the problem is worse. Most people still do not know much about transgender or transsexual. Most people first think that I am a kind of gay, and some friends ask me about my sexual orientation. They seem to be relieved after hearing my reply that I am a kind of lesbian rather than gay men. And, openly, the term 'transgender' is exclusively used for denoting transsexual de facto in the western society, and most people here never heard about transsexual. I explain again that there are many 'transgender' people who do not want SRS. To them, transgender people are those who underwent SRS or consider it seriously. It is just a kind of etymological debate, not any more.
My existence and appearance is so striking in my work place or my town that nearly all people know me. To them, I am just a unique or bizarre person. Some people like me. Without my current career and professional performace, all of them would not like me. As long as I perform well in this 'normal' society, most people, including my family, accept and tolerate my queer appearance.
Most people consider me as a man, but they tend to be surprised at my hidden aggressiveness when I work with others. Some even say that I possess a kind of charisma.
It is difficult to explain 'androgynous' to people here. Some people even say that they can not accept my feminie expression unless I undertake SRS.
And nowadays I am tired of explaining or debating about my transgenerism, no longer try hard to justify it.
Thus, my motto is "Just do it."
Barbie~~