Hi there,
I know dating for the trans folks can be a struggle especially for the pre OP people. I am pre OP but living full time since about 8 months ago.
I have been setting up kind of date with a fellow I like. I don't know him very well but I know he is not homo/transphobic and he is into women. So far so gut.
He slipped out of my hands because he is not working any more at a place I used to see him so I looked him up on the FB.
I wasn't overly direct about my motivations but I was hinting a little bit. I don't know how much he knew about my past prior to this moment but I am fairly open regarding my past on my FB site and there is even an older photo of my male self so he is guessing now to say at least. However he did not change his mood and still wants to get together. Do you have any peace of advice how to go about my state of transition? I know all about safety and think he is just fine guy but is there a good or better way to bring this issue up. I know every person is different so I am not hoping you'd predict the outcome of this but I am always happy to hear other's experience and advice.
I know of some sad stories how a guy just got up and walked out of the restaurant or sent a weired text message but I also know of some people here who did have success in dating. How did you approach the topic, what was their first reaction? How is it with the intimacy in positive outcomes if you don't mind sharing, or pm me if you prefer or not?
thanks,
envie
I guess not many of you present here at the moment have dating experience or did I post this question in the wrong room? Please advice me if so!
Any way, I am meeting my guy tomorrow. At the moment I just feel like a dummy. I imagine he is probably gonna say something like "I have a girlfriend already, or I am sorry but I'm not gay" or something like that.
I'll play the situation by the ear I guess and brace for the disappointment. If I were to listen to someone else telling me this same story I'd probably think she is just setting herself for a disappointment, but I have to try or why else bother living?
Wish me luck!
Quote from: envie on August 18, 2011, 11:53:07 PM
I guess not many of you present here at the moment have dating experience
Sadly, that's me in a nutshell. :( Never been asked out, and too shy to make the first move.
I plan to ALWAYS reveal I am trans before meeting them for a date. Actually, when people flirt / joke with me I laugh and go "I doubt I'm your type" . I want to get the entire "do you have transphobia" issue out of the way as early as possible so I can really know if they are interested in me or not.
I figure when I am more seriously interested in dating, I will go after gay guys. The ones I have dated in the past were completely like "normal straight guys" (and treated me like "the girl" anyway).... and they won't have an issue with me still having some parts, so win / win (I find it really odd when people here say they aren't attracted to "gay guys"... the only thing that makes them gay is that they are interested in guys ~and a lot are bi~).
Quote from: envie on August 18, 2011, 11:53:07 PM
I guess not many of you present here at the moment have dating experience or did I post this question in the wrong room? Please advice me if so!
I've got plenty of dating experience, but not in the realm of dating the male of the species. Admittedly, I did not have to do a lot of dating while I was pre-op since I had found my partner not long after transition. While I was active in the lesbian community prior to meeting my now-ex, I made the choice not to get too involved with other women beyond some drunken groping...I had no real interest in being in bed with someone until the birth defect was surgically corrected.
QuoteWish me luck!
hope it goes well...
oh, and FWIW, I rarely disclose the past...personal choice and not something that is relevant to casual dating.
well I just got back from my little rendezvous and it went fairly well!
We talked about visual art and touched on our life backgrounds, interests and such. The conversation stuttered a bit on the beginning due to nervousness at least on my part, but then it started rolling nicely. About hour and a half into the conversation we had a little moment of pause and it seemed the time to say good buy just suggested itself naturally. We stepped outside of the cafe and he said he enjoyed meeting me and he'd like to meet again, at least once o month or as our schedules allow. Then I went out on the limb and told him about my attraction to him and how that was the biggest motivation to see him.
He then explained he is getting over his last relationship and is not ready for a new one because he has to figure out who he is. Then I said I totally understand as I am also trying to figure out who I am as I have lived majority of my life not as a woman. He then said he still doesn't want to reject the Idea of dating me so we shall definitely continue to see each other.
We then hugged each other and it felt sooo good. It wasn't just one of those soft friendly hugs, he pressed me gently but firmly against himself. :D ::)
Zoë Natasha, I've been following a little bit of your transition and you are so lovely. I encourage you to flirt a little and enjoy yourselves but be safe!
I agree it is important to figure out if the potential date has trans/homophobic issues but I myself don't feel like disclosing that right at the beginning. No one introduces herself i.e. with "Hello, my name is Stephani and I am GG" or what ever s/he is. I am many different things first and somewhere down the list I happen to be a Transwoman.
I wouldn't want to date someone who is exclusively gay because I can't have a relationship with someone who is in love with me for the bits I despise or for someone who I am not. Namely a man.
I totally understand the discomfort with getting intimate with someone while still having the birth defect uncorrected but my need to get a hug or give a kiss is still greater then the discomfort around the extra bits. For me there is a workaround for the problem with my birth defect, besides majority of any relationship happens outside the bed frame.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. By the way, I think the more reactions from the first dates we know off the better, regardless of going on a date with a man or a woman. I think the challenges our bodies present to people who don't have gender issues can be universal!
Quote from: envie on August 19, 2011, 02:30:32 PM
well I just got back from my little rendezvous and it went fairly well!
good to hear...
QuoteHe then explained he is getting over his last relationship and is not ready for a new one because he has to figure out who he is.
Regardless of reason, I can wholly understand not wanting to jump into dating right after ending a relationship...I think it was six months before I even wanted to go out with friends to a bar much less contemplate dating again. Ironically enough, it was not long after a friend convinced me to go out with her to a pool party that she would wind up breaking up with her partner and be in the same place I had been a few months earlier.
QuoteI totally understand the discomfort with getting intimate with someone while still having the birth defect uncorrected but my need to get a hug or give a kiss is still greater then the discomfort around the extra bits. For me there is a workaround for the problem with my birth defect, besides majority of any relationship happens outside the bed frame.
don't get me wrong...I still had my share of kissing and hugging back then...I just never allowed things to progress to a bedroom, which admittedly screwed part of my life up until my mid-20's. Post-operatively, I simply live life as it should have been lived even back then...
I'm so glad the date went well for you!
This is an area i very much struggle with and probably why i am still single. Being pre-op makes it difficult to date regular straight men that i come into contact with out and about. I tried it in the past but i feel it's too risky. I am on a site in the UK that is aimed at trans dating but i am uncomfortable with men wanting me BECAUSE i'm trans as opposed to in spite of it. It really just reinforces a view of me as something not really a woman.
I did date a man a few years ago that i met on another site. After a while when i realised he was serious about dating and that i liked him too i decided to have "the talk". That went reasonably ok except he was rather shocked and thought i was winding him up at first. He got back to me though saying he didn't care and that i was still the same person. So, we dated and then it came to spending a night together.
I wont go into graphic detail but when actually faced with the reality of my biology he couldn't cope, jumped out of bed and mumbled something about really needing a cup of tea. Needless to say that was not good for my self esteem and spending the rest of the time together making polite conversation and not being able to let my emotions out was horrible.
Sorry if this seems pessimistic, i know this is not a universal experience but i thought i would share.
Thanks for sharing CloeDharma! Although your experience had a sad ending there was at least an attempt on his part to look beyond the genital issue.
Quote from: ChloeDharma on August 19, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
i am uncomfortable with men wanting me BECAUSE i'm trans as opposed to in spite of it. It really just reinforces a view of me as something not really a woman.
This is pretty much how I feel about it as well.
I would be open to date a bisexual man. So wanting me in spite of me being trans, or at least not minding me being trans would be OK with me.
I hope you have better luck in the future!
sorry i shouldve read looked more into other peoples threads. seems you were talking about the same thing as i did on a therad i just made. well i was like out of it last night so... sorry.
anyway, if you see it my story is there. tomorrow will be my first face to face thing with a guy who doesnt know before hand what i am.
i guess ill let you know what happens.
if this goes well, i think ill go out with a couple more guys. theyve been asking me out for a while now and i just keep on saying no. what can i say im worried but... well. we'll see tomorrow
as for guys wanting you coz they KNOW youre this... what can i say some of them really just have sick sexual interests and thats all there is to it. im not saying that theres nothing wantable in US or wanting us is off, its just that its just really weird for them to SEEK something so specific? im sorry i cant word out my opinion. but i got the same feeling when i did a dating site for trans people back then. i dontknow
Quote from: ChloeDharma on August 19, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
but i am uncomfortable with men wanting me BECAUSE i'm trans as opposed to in spite of it.
I see being trans as a selling point (or at least not something negative). It isn't some handicap that a partner would need to overlook to date me...
You make it seem like being trans is second rate to being genetic female... that, all other things equal, a trans person should be less desired than a genetic female.
I guess I don't want to think that way. I don't feel inferior to a genetic female simply because I wasn't born that way... I am simply different. Different is NOT worse.
Sure they have some things I don't. But I have things they don't... and that is how different works.
It would be like saying a certain type of apple is "better" than others. No, they are all apples and would all be great to eat, just each type has their own qualities that different people prefer.
I really dislike the self hate a lot of the trans community seems to have. It is similar to how women were made to believe they were 2nd rate to men in history.... or how any other minority is forced into a "lesser" role (such as blacks during slavery). Don't let a bigotted and closed minded society brainwash you into thinking you are less of a person because of what you are.... we need to find confidence to be who we are without feeling as if we need to fit some mold and blend in so no one notices we are different (such as getting trachia shave? there is really no reason for it, other than to help us hide).
Hope things work out Envie.
I am settling into a new town without any personal history to complicate things and will be dipping my toe tentatively into the lesbian dating pool soon. I am fairly open about being in transition with the group of girls I have been introduced to, and will see how things go.
Everyone I have met so far has been friendly, so I am optimistic, even if I decide to wait until post SRS before I start getting serious.
Karen.
Hi there,
thanks Karen! I wish you further luck in your new town!
As for my guy, its going to be a bit of a patience game as, like I said before, he is still collecting himself from his last relationship and since it seems to be a while since his break up, it leads me to believe it was a major event in his life. So far I've been only making some appearance on Facebook just to keep myself present to him but there can't be really any rush.
Rabbit, to me you seem to make some good points but then it also seems you are struggling with accepting reality as oppose to how you believe the reality should be.
If you have a crash on a straight guy then having male genitals is rather an obstacle to say at least. But to take your analogy with apples along, people have preference for Cameo, Breaburn, and Honey Crisp apples for fresh consumption. Delicious are just universally know as not so desirable apple kind for fresh consumption in spite of it's name. BUT if you are trying to make apple sauce or some dessert then Delicious are your first choice, however there are a lot more people who prefer to eat their apples fresh than make them into sauce. So, us Trans-anything people are a kind of Delicious apple that is a bit harder to sell(this is how you called it, I myself don't prefer that term as I am not trying to "sell" anything)
I think of my trans background rather as a filter for the guys. Who ever has a problem with it or some sort of Phobia then he is not the right kind of a guy for me.
As for dating gay guys, I could have done that without transitioning, but I am not a gay man. Its that simple.
Gantz, you can start your own thread any time, there is no ownership of any thread topic ;)
Hope your date goes well, keep us posted! Remember to be safe!!!
Overall I just tried to enjoy myself at my date and introduce myself from all kinds of aspects and angles just like a regular woman who only happens to be trans among many other things.
The trans part is only important because i am seeking romantic relationship, and gender and genitals happen to play big role in my Idea of a romantic relationship.
Otherwise a relationship can be just a friendship and the trans part is then not so important but in this particular case I am romantically attracted to this guy...not just trying to get laid either!
Well Envie if your guy knows he can count on you for a bit of low key support any time he is feeling a bit low, that should help build a good foundation for your relationship.
Is it any different really from a relationship between people who decide to wait until marriage before getting sexual? Or where one partner has health problems?
Hope it all works out, he sounds like he ticks all the boxes. Probably a tradesman too by the way you are smitten! :laugh:
Karen.
Quote from: envie on August 28, 2011, 12:17:22 PM
So, us Trans-anything people are a kind of Delicious apple that is a bit harder to sell
Sure, we probably don't appeal to as wide of a pool.. but I'm not looking for the world to love me, I'm looking for one man to love me.
But that is the way it is with everyone. There are a HUGE range of types and many aren't "mass appeal". Heck, even the type of guy I am interested in is outside of the average... I have shown girlfriends pictures of my "type" and some think it is hot...others not so much... that is how people work, we all like different things. Trans is just another type of different.
QuoteAs for dating gay guys, I could have done that without transitioning, but I am not a gay man. Its that simple.
I don't understand. If he is attracted to you, what does it matter if he identifies as gay or not? I didn't start transitioning to attract more men (I had enough who were really attractive to me who would have LOVED to see me more).... I am doing this for my own personal preferences.
But, I have dated "gay guys" in the past. And they were every much as "straight" as any guy you would run into. Trust me, there is nothing about being gay that automatically turns someone into a feminine flamboyant person. As they say, all the best guys are either gay or married... straight women would LOVE the chance to date certain guys who happen to be gay... but sadly they just don't have a chance. So far from talking with some of my ex's, it seems being trans would definitely put me ahead of a cis female (like I said before, cis girls have some advantages... and so do trans people).
Are you really going to let semantics stand in the way of being with a partner who you are completely compatible with? Or does it threaten your identity to date someone who is attracted to you for a few masculine qualities you have ?
Personally, if I can find a guy who doesn't mind that I have an adams apple or doesn't absolutely NEED me to hide all of my masculine qualities.... that would be perfect!!! (because, well, I'm not a genetic female... I have lived 28 years in a male body, it isn't all going to vanish in a few months). I don't want to be forced to have surgery after surgery simply because I feel it is the only way to get someone to love me.... like I said, the transition is for ME, not for my partner. I only want to do as much as I need to in order to be happy with myself.
So, yup, gay guys (or bi). They have less issues to work through... won't mind a few masculine qualities... and will generally be able to accept / love me more easily than trying to get a straight guy to love me "in spite" of who i am (who if I was with I would feel like I was always falling short of the type he "really wants"... which would constantly make me stress over my imperfections or slipping up and making a male sound with my voice or whatever else).
Rabbit I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree!
But that is OK, I find it unnecessary to prove or disapprove any statements from any one, so I am not gonna dissect our posts.
My original question was this:
Quote from: envie on August 11, 2011, 11:42:14 PM
is there a good or better way to bring up the issue about the transition. I know every person is different so I am not hoping you'd predict the outcome of this but I am always happy to hear other's experience and advice.
How did you approach the topic, what was their first reaction? How is it with the intimacy in positive outcomes if you don't mind sharing, or pm me if you prefer or not?
I'd suggest we just stick to it.
peace!
envie
Quote from: envie on August 29, 2011, 10:39:36 PM
Rabbit I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree!
But that is OK, I find it unnecessary to prove or disapprove any statements from any one, so I am not gonna dissect our posts.
Hehe no no no, I'm not trying to make you change your mind... just trying to understand it better. I have heard others say they aren't interested in gay guys, just I don't understand it.
Come on now,
I don't need to explain why a straight woman, trans or not, is not interested in a gay guy.
Women think gay guys are good looking because they take care of themselves but women rather
have a day dream of having some one like that in the straight version.
Women don't have what a gay man is looking for in a relationship either.
That is why gay guys are gay in first place, they like guys, flamboyant or not.
How would I attract a gay men, with my male parts? No one knows I have them and I am not about to advertise it either
as I live comfortably just as a woman.
But I am rather at this point curious about your gender Identity and sexual orientation.
Are you just gay man living as a drag ?
Non of this makes sense to me buy the way, except that some man I bisexual.
Quote from: Rabbit on August 19, 2011, 08:23:42 AM
I figure when I am more seriously interested in dating, I will go after gay guys. The ones I have dated in the past were completely like "normal straight guys" (and treated me like "the girl" anyway).... and they won't have an issue with me still having some parts, so win / win (I find it really odd when people here say they aren't attracted to "gay guys"... the only thing that makes them gay is that they are interested in guys ~and a lot are bi~).
i posted previously on my thread somewhere about the first date. i was at my very best. he thought i was pretty, cant remember what he said. cutting the story short he did not notice what i am and he had a good time. this pretty much is somewhat obvious since we kissed a few to end the night. yes i couldnt tell him.
today. driving home, i thought about this and i really just cant say it. its not jsut i cant say it to him, even when I am just by myself i cant say what I am. i mean i hate that word.... i dont know ok. why must i be that, im a woman aint i... am i...
later today, i met with him again. this time i was at my worst. i didnt wear makeup, i wore a very tight shirt vs the jacket that hides my chest. he can see how flat i almost am this time and also my frame. i did this deliberately to spare myself from having to word it out hoping hed jsut... notice. but he still didnt. i asked him again and again to look at me if he sees anything wrong with me and he jsut keeps of fkn saying what am i talking about, i was already like starting to sound wacko there coz of the constant questioning. and it just went romantic again. even more than last time.
i am getting more worried. its getting harder and harder for me to tell him the truth. and the more i feel i dont want him to know the truth. just being with him overshadows the guilt that i feel. i almost dont care anymore no matter how fiendish i am as long as this keeps on going. god, i cant believe i just said those. what is wrong with me. i want to stop doing this but
i guess as my story shows. sometimes even if you dont look eh maybe pass worthy, some men can still not notice. i guess maybe, keeping their minds entertained helps?
Maybe sending him a thankyou card for a great date, and include how miuch you like him, so you don't want to hurt or decieve him?
Karen.
im not the card type of person but i guess i can give him something that really know hed like i guess. im worried thought that if its an object he might burn it once he finds out hahaha.
hey karen, i didnt quite get the last part. was that a question?
if it is, i dont want to hurt him but i have to deceive him so that he would stay for as long as possible, thats just what my head is telling me right now and how i also feel.
Do you really have to decieve him? If you are into each other as much as it sounds, do you think he would leave if you outed yourself?
Karen.
Quote from: envie on August 31, 2011, 12:12:20 AM
But I am rather at this point curious about your gender Identity and sexual orientation.
Are you just gay man living as a drag ?
Non of this makes sense to me buy the way, except that some man I bisexual.
Oh, I like guys (but have a tiny curiosity about women).... not really sure what label to use :P
Gay? Straight? I don't care :) I like guys... and I want to find a guy that likes me (all of me). Just so happens there are a lot of those types who hang out on gay dating sites (a lot of times there are bi guys who like certain things about men... but also really like women... which is what i am! scoreee!)
Eventually I won't look like a "normal girl" and I won't look like a "normal guy". I idenfity as "trans" (even though I am probably more towards female mentally, I just realize a lot of me is still male physically). So, again, doesn't make much difference what someone calls me (or they call themselves), if I am attracted to them and they are attracted to me, that is a great start :D
karen, i just dont want to risk it... again. i like him too much, flat out. besides, i remember my doctor telling me... coz i expressed this constant issue with me with her. she said, why am i telling them, i shouldnt tell them. she said im a woman and i should only tell them when its like a position where you must, like youre gonna do 'it'. if he loves me already, he will be able to handle it by then.
love does not build up on the first day, lust maybe but lets be real here.
ive been getting other peoples opinion about this too. "straight" men. it appears those who are capable of accepting, WILL only consider if there IS an existing strong relationship between the two. if its early on theyd break up easily. the reasoning is there IS a good reason already to 'give it a chance'. just being blunt here, there is already an emotional investment in their part as well, and what you can give them is already established and clear. where as if its too early, youve just no bargaining chips available
ive decided, ill just do what i can now until he find out for himself. then he can decide if all the affection and care that i gave is less compared to the 'thing' deal then ill just accept it obviously what he thinks. atleast i consider it as a fair fight this time. vs the typical, not even being able to show waht you can do you know and just rejected flat out.
add
in truth i am being chewed by guilt. yesterday while we were lying down i ended up crying and he was asking me and i cant tell him what is going on. i just told him i cant tell him, but if he knew he would leave me. im just glad he didnt push to find out what i meant. look its not like i love this guy ok... i just sound like it maybe alright but i dont think i do ok. i just dont want him to go, i just dont want this to stop.
OK Rabbit, now I understand where you are coming from. Theoretically all you said makes a lot of sense for me but practically and emotionally I couldn't go for a gay man.
Bi men is different story, I already said I wouldn't mind dating that kind of man.
@gantz
I think there is a moment where the partner should be informed about the situation and that would be before he finds out for himself in my opinion. I think it is good to get to know each other and wait a little but the man should not get too far attached emotionally to you and you to him. It is at some point rather too hurtful to learn about the trans issue sooo late. Also you yourself can get so deeply attached to the guy that in case he runs off you hurt terribly too. So the right moment, not too early and not too late, is a challenge to find. The longer you wait the more it might feel to him as a deception. That is at least how I see it
Quote from: ChloeDharma on August 19, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
I did date a man a few years ago that i met on another site. After a while when i realised he was serious about dating and that i liked him too i decided to have "the talk". That went reasonably ok except he was rather shocked and thought i was winding him up at first. He got back to me though saying he didn't care and that i was still the same person. So, we dated and then it came to spending a night together.
this approach really resonates with me,
thanks again ChloeDharma for sharing your experience!
im gonna be sleeping with him tomorrow. i feel well worried, yes i still havent told him. im so uncertain, my sense of logic tells me to delay telling him - i think i cn get away with a few more months, my conscience tells me to tell him tomorrow. the people i talk to including you all here have mixed opinions of telling and not telling. my experience tells me he will leave instantly the moment i tell him. i feel im starting to need him. ive been with many women before, i never felt this way before in any of them. but, then again, it might feel teh same with any other guy in the future too right?
what am i to do? i am so lost. i cant take this anymore. i cant focus at work, its tough coz my work is 100% mental. I dont want ot think anymore. yeah envie im already attached... i cant help it
ill just... let things flow by. and just enjoy the moment i have with him. however itll be... itll just be, if ill be hurt ill risk it.
besides we're still just friends last i recall... right?
envie, good luck with your dating matter
thanks gantz!
Yeah my next date is not gonna happen soon I am afraid. I kept talking to my guy and trying to be supportive friend to him just how Karen suggested.
This was all good but then he shared some details with me that made me realize he is kind of light years away from being able to date again and left me kind of in a shock too.
Apparently he and his ex were talking about getting married, conceiving a child and all that had been happening when she came out as lesbian!
So she left him for a woman but they are still friends.
This is almost exactly my story with my ex only in the mirror. So basically he is in a position just like my ex is and I am sort of like his ex-girlfriend only rather interested in him as oppose to leaving him.
He is just devastated as his dreams of fatherhood and marriage have been shattered and he is in his late 30's so there is a bit of midlife crisis going too.
He also expressed appreciation for my support but he rather prefers to process things with only very few close friends of his.
So basically I have to take back seat and it is not just disappointing but it really hurts. I think it hurts me even more because he is so kind to me
and not a jerk so I sort of long for him even more.
Quote from: gantz on September 02, 2011, 11:25:04 PM
im gonna be sleeping with him tomorrow.
I really hope things are going to go well for you. One thing that just occurred to me is that he might actually already know or at least guess but he doesn't mind.
It seems like you were pretty close with each other already few times and you told him there was something you needed to tell him but you said he'd leave you immediately if you were to tell him.
Sounds like your guy could do with all the support he can get. Even if you are there as an emergency support if no-one else is available.
I can empathise with him. It's a bit of a shock when your wife leaves you for her best friend, if mine wanted a woman she could have waited :laugh: so it must be love. We get on ok now too.
If you do end up together permanently, there is always the options of adoption or fostering. There are lots of kids out there who need a loving family.
Karen.
Yes Karen,
that is exactly where I left it at, I am his emergency support and he knows it.
Quote from: justmeinoz on September 03, 2011, 02:29:04 AM
If you do end up together permanently, there is always the options of adoption or fostering. There are lots of kids out there who need a loving family.
It is funny you should say this...I have a 2 and half year old daughter. My ex and I were planning all this together prior to my transition but then the unexpected happened. She was not attracted to me anymore and I started having feelings for men so now we are just sisters to each other.
So I technically already do have that "adoptive" child for him. ;)
well im back in one piece. im still shaking really from ... i dont really know what happend since yesterday. ive never felt like that before ever. oh my god oh mydof. in the morning during the calm it jsut hit me real bad, this conscience thing and i couldnt take it anymore. i told him ive really just fallen for him and i told him the truth about me. yeah, after... alll of 'that' he still think i was not what i was. then i just started to cry. h edidnt tell me to leave like what i was expecting you know. he hugged me instead and told me not to say sorry... but he said he had to think about it, i think he was really shocked. but i still feel he really cared for me for the duration of my stay... i just really cant lose this you know! i dont want to lose this, i just know i really want this person. i cant let him go. i already love him. i just want to give him his space for now to think. i guess its like too much to take in one day. i dont know whats going on anymore. my head hurts. i miss him already. sorry, i know i sound like a 14 year old, but i just cant help it anymore
Oh gantz,
I think you are very brave and I think you did just the right thing. He also seems to be really nice guy! So he reacted as any normal human being would when faced with unforeseen circumstances. He needs some time to think about it and he did not change his attitude towards you just because of who you are or for being honest. I so hope you guys work it out after all what has happened.
Buy the way, I feel like a 14 year old half of the time so there is now at least 2 of us, but I bet there are plenty more here!
warm hugs to you gantz!
thank you envie. i feel uncomfortable today, i hate waiting moments. i dont know if hed give me a favorable response or not. i just feel im at a disadvantage in these moments where i am not physically with him, and peoples imagination gets a bit too imaginative and lose sight of 'you'. but you know, i felt more free on the last moments of intimacy i had with him after telling him, i guess i was no longer worried about evading certain angles, positions touches where it can give me away.
so i guess i can just babble on what i think has worked for me, not just necessarily with the dating but them just not noticing, for those who dont want to be caught.
a lot of concern among us which is a big root of our insecurity are boobs. coz we see these naturals(im sorry ok i dont know what to call them) with those huge things, especially here in Los angeles where people are 'bigger' than usual so they have boobs that are just as big - makes you wonder what kind of woman am i without those. but you know, not all have big boobs and believe it or not men can be accepting of that fact actually - some actually find it hot - they see it as a ... young look, some ok. but point being, if you are thin and you have small ones, they can be forgiving. but PS, small not flat literally like paper alright. but if we're on hormones i think there would be something there right i mean i only had it for 4 months and i have enough for someone to feel i have something. ps, im a bit thin. small boobs = small frame = forgivable, but just based on my interactions with men ok.
i think the face is a big factor in things. one issue is the jaw. ive seen some here with squarish jaws but i still can see the woman - theres a lot of women out there with that kind of jaw. its the whole face thats judged i believe, its how they all come together - including the expressions and smiles and the look in your eyes. dont feel so insecure about it, it can show in your expressions. if youve good points that are feminine, they say to work on them and put them a bit more 'forward' and make the rest less noticable or direct to these. my cheeks are bad, but my eyes are nice. oh yeah ive noticed, usually our cheeks are sunk right, especially when we're thin. but when we smile - the push fills it up and makes em look girly - smiling helps and it makes em more comfortable too. and of course i guess smile like a girl ahahahahha and laugh like one right dont go over and end up like the joker eh. you can tell a guy 'come and get me' with just your face, right?
obviously the voice is important. but ive noticed, they still dont mind if you have a bit of coarseness left. as long as the 'deepness' resides it can be enough. make em focus on what you are saying, redirect them away from how you are saying them. an dif youre talking about things that no man would care about or think, it makes it harder for them to not think you are a woman. this simple nonsense line for example, 'i bought some heels yesterday', it sounds so stupid but once that hits their brains it will raise a female flag for you. avoid topics that hint of male interest - but sometimes its ok too since it gives them a homely we can be good friends too feeling but excessive amounts wont be to your advantage here I think.
add{
hair, if youre out of things you can change, get a girly hair. mine is upto my butt. that alone, people tell me, its like unimaginable that im not a woman with this kind of hair. take care of your hair and look around you, what do the women out there wear.
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woman - its all in a persons head, and people can be made to believe just about anything.
i think if you hit a small snag, you should try to divert his attention to himself. like make him talk about himself, make him think just divert him but not too far. then recover and slowly start hitting him again.
to those of us who lived as men before... wont you agree we have an advantage here somewhat even against some women out there? we know what guys like and what turns em on... sure everyone can be different but come on right. the look that you drooled for, the kiss that you just so wanted, the things you wanted to hear, the atmosphere, the feeling ... that thing that just makes you want to jump her no matter where you are or whos looking... this time, trying to give em instead can help, big time.
well thats just some... hey you can be forgiving right, im new to all this so just correct me if i said something silly. hey, i can use the info you know.
ok im sorry i am just talking nonsense here to get my mind off things, but idiotically its making me think of my problems even more. what can i say im... i feel so uneasy right now. im so worried. my chest hurts so bad. i just want to go to bed again and just fall asleep. im trying to prep myself for an unpleasant reply... i just know itll hit me reaaaaally hard if things dont go well. oh my god.
last one would be, give in to the feeling. but you know... that one can be addicting.
add:
i got a reply earlier. i wento to him to hear what he has to say. told me what i expected anyway, i mean come on - when you tell theres just on eresponse right? yeah i know some of you would say something against that but cut me some slack today ok. he told me we can only be friends. well, im new to the hormones, but the emotional ->-bleeped-<- is working on me full load it seems so i guess you can imagine how i feel at this very minute. he was the first i loved. ill cut that there before i say something that will ban me. just use your imagination eh. well ahahaaha
I am so sorry gantz, but keep your chin up even though it is heart breaking!
Did you ask him to keep your trans identity to himself and not share with friends or something?
hugs!
why ask that envie?...
i cant think anymore i mean yes i didnt even think of that earlier. well... hahahaha as always its never really hard to get them interested initially. its always about that fkn part... so you call it the 'talk' here it seems. no matter how pretty you can be or sweet or loving or how well you go together even if youre like the dream chick of this guy its not enough unless you have that thing and that you werent born with it. im sorry im not really thinking straight right now.
To me the transition and the trans identity is kind of a private thing.
I would want to have some control over who knows is it and who doesn't.
For instance if you stay friends and meet some time with some other friends of his, you might not want the rest of people to look at you weirdly.
On the other hand are you really sure it is all over with him? May be he just needs a little more time to realize you are not all the sudden a different person.
I don't know but if I were you I'd give him some space and time but keep myself present and available for him. But thats just me I don't give up so fast anything.
well its ok we dont really share teh same group of friends somewhat so...
i dont know envie. i really tried everything i can think of on that last day to convince him and he was just erally solid about it. sometimes you just really can tell its... over.
hahahah god, i felt so bad i wanted to kill myself seriously. but i feel better now so i guess i can say that now.
maybe i should give up on men. hahahahaha. theyre so easy to catch but to keep em in your hands its so.... i dont know. the constant feeling too that they might run off to those natural born *..................... like that ->-bleeped-<-n bitch friend of his uhm. ok im just stressed out so.
you know seriously, ive never dated a trans before. i dont know the opportunity never just came up and no one has taken any interest in me too. not that i have ever met any. maybe i should give that a try. not for fun or diversion i mean, but who know it might work right? know of any from LA hahahahahaha?
ADD: sept 8
Im falling apart badly after I lost chris. I miss him so badly. I end up going just like grabbing anyone to talk to and meet, not even out of interest but just to divert my attention. It hurts badly still, I had a breakdown at work yesterday - nothing violent just me falling apart crying on my desk. I dont think I have the confidence anymore to believe any guy can take me seriously, more so love me.
Ive decided. If I do recover, Ill try to go at it again. But this time i really will never tell, if the last time wasnt enough Ill be so much more, just whatever i can do i will. If I have to drag this for as long as I can possibly do, I will. If the tilting point really is when teh guy is so madly inlove with you already, then so be it even if he'd be also at the point of wanting to kill me for not telling. Its a fair risk I believe, some things you just cant have through normal means. Hell, can I be a complete woman by merely wishing for it and hoping for luck, im like risking getting cancer by taking these meds already and cheating my way through the natural flow of nature
for a while i didnt even consider SRS coz i still had some doubts on what i was, but this is not for this reason - to grab men. after being with a guy, im really adamant now that it is what i want. im just really out of the women game now i dont have interest in em really anymore so it would be pointless to stay this way. besides... more clothing options right. ill ask my doc next time i see him which is less than a month away on how i can prepare for it someday