Hi everyone, I was thinking about what my Doctor was telling me, about how me being a MTF has a female brain and a male body so my brain is being starved of estrogen, he said it does not get the amount estrogen it needs, it only gets the small amount produced by any normal male.
My brain needs a higher quantity of estrogen and it is not getting it so the brain tells my body there is something wrong in the form of dysphoria or GID.
He has over 20 years experience in dealing with gender dysphoria and he says that it is known that after taking estrogen the dysphoria will start to fade and get less intense, he said some Dr's have even used it as a tool to verify that there patients do or do not have gender dysphoria.
He has mentioned that many of his patients have told him of the great relief they got after starting the estrogen.
I am sure that many of you here might have had the same reaction to the estrogen, if so I would like to hear your thoughts on this matter, do you think it is the estrogen or a placeebo effect or a combo of both.
I am very in tune with my body and I have noticed the tension and the constant feeling of dysphoria, the same feeling that I used to be able to hide, I can not hide anymore, so that is what made me go and seek help and start therapy and eventually HRT.
Well today I started HRT, I took my first estrogen tablet at 11:30 today and I have to say that I noticed a marked change after a few hrs. I noticed that the tension and teh clenching of the teeth was gone, the feeling was great, I did not feel the dysphoria as being relentless, it was like I forgot how to relax and the Estrogen turned on the relax button or should I say it turned off the dysphoria button :)
So please tell me your thoughts on this "Estrogen Effect" Did you notice this effect too?
This is the best feeling in the world, my brain is no longer being starved of what it was rightfully meant to have ;D
Aloha
Jennie
I don't know how much of it is actual brain-starvation (funny word), and our mental awareness that we do something to help ourselves. I remember when I started taking hormones I felt really relieved because I felt that there will be no more changes towards masculinity, that now it's only time for feminity, I am not frustrated, I am not furious, I can slowly breathe, and back then just wait for the effects. I can't say how much of it is the real estrogen effect, and our feeling of peace... So I would go with the "combo" one :)
Well, I definitely feel different... and I doubt it is psychosomatic (considering I went into hormones really relaxed and pretty much "well, lets see what happens"... so hadn't built it up in my head or anything).
I "think" the additional calmness might be from the spiro (lower blood pressure? that makes sense).. or maybe it is from lack of friskyness? Or it could just be the estrogen...who knows?
One huge difference is much less anxiety. I am still pretty awkward at times, but really don't feel this huge anxiety issue when out in public (even though at the moment, my body is actually WORSE than it was before I started... gained 5-10 pounds, hair looks horrible, my face looks strange a lot of the time...) but still, i feel pretty fine.
Again, is it from the spiro? Or the estrogen? I'm not too sure.
I'll second that. Even on a low dose of e a huge amount of pressure was gone all of a sudden. I went from suicidally depressed and basically not able to deal with anything last fall to learning a new trade and making realistic plans for my future since this spring. On the way i worked on issues from my past that i shied away from for at least 15 years and made huge steps with them. It is a whole different quality of life.........
Quote from: Valeriedances on August 18, 2011, 06:07:46 AM
It's better than tacos, pizza, chocolate, ice cream or chinese food.
Better than pizza??? I dunno... I have had some really good pizza. ;) :icon_lol:
it's like my brain woke up and came alive... it's like my eyes woke up and were finally able to see colour... it made sense out of my life when nothing else could.
I like the concept that our female brains were estrogen starved; I know mine was certainly testosterone poisoned, so it makes sense.
I feel kind of stoned, I have no worries, everything is good, but also one negative thing, I now just sit and enjoy it > laziness, no progress :-\
And I can look at my body with good expectation, no fear as before 8)
Though, there is a parallel.
Have you EVERY been on a zero-diet, just water? Say for a week?!
Once you come off, EVERYTHING just tastes incredible, raw veg, EVERYTHING!
This is the situation after deprivation --- alas it does NOT stay that way, and so be it.
Nature I assume knows best.
The same applies to E.
I have taken note of all these effects, close to walking on clouds, but we do come down to business as (almost) usual eventually.
And that is good so.
Lest we'd become just a bunch of E stoned-out trans-girls to our genetic sisters --- I'd rather feel these days being OK, and sharing some of there normal ups and downs.
Love some, bitch some, eh?
My 2 cents,
Axelle
E gave me a psychological boost for sure, but I suspect it's a combination of both factors. If you're configured to run on estrogen then your brain will demand it. From a less objective point of view I didn't start feeling the 'effect' until I was in the right place mentally, like I just kinda allowed it to work, but that may be caused by the physical effect in the first place.... ugh darn objectivity :)
* I was ->-bleeped-<-ing insane before HRT. *
Hells, bells, how much clearer can THAT be put! :-)
I'm happy it did the trick, and you came right.
Axelle
My doctor alluded to something like this himself, actually. It seems to be just a theory, since they don't have an exact mechanism for this effect, but it's backed by decades of anecdotal evidence. And, at least from personal experience, I can attest that the relaxing, calming, clarity-promoting effects of even the first week on estrogen were not placebo.
;)
Quote from: Valeriedances on August 18, 2011, 06:07:46 AM
p.s. If there is ever a shortage of supply you can find me in that part of the world where it is.
Ha! I feel the same way about finally having the E in my system but also the supply. Even though I have a prescription for E and you can get it just about anywhere with that, I STILL feel the need to keep a backup supply should the world suddenly fall into chaos, aliens appear, etc. I don't know, seems crazy because I doubt I would do the same if I was on heart medicine!
-M
I theorized that in the late 70's to my psychiatrist. At that time, doctors and researchers though that male and female brains were the same and the hormones MAY program the brain accordingly. He didn't believe me and convinced me that it was fable. I believed that and thought that my experience with estrogen was a fluke after seeing the overwhelming anecdotal evidence here on Susan's to counter mine. I see more M-Fs get more moody than before they started on HRT. However, these same people say they are more at peace with themselves now.
My experience says different. My mood swings from before HRT ceased for the longest time thus far. I am no longer cursing at myself for the daily problems I encounter, I was heard cursing at the balky software over an astrometrical alignment function at an observing session two weeks ago and not at myself for a change! To my relief, the owner of that software said that older software version I have has problems in that area! I also experienced a calmness from thinking in a single train of thought instead of the 3 things going through my mind that has plagued me for as long as I remember! And I thought that was normal!
When researchers finally came out and said that they found evidence of estrogen receptors in the brains of both males and females and said that men just had too few of them to be a non-issue for them. However, some of those researchers hinted that transgender M-Fs do not have an increase of estrogen receptors because of the boys do have a higher testosterone levels during childhood than with the girls and this may be the cause. That just put another roadblock in my efforts to transisition another 25 years or so. There are always some killjoy Bozos in the research field!
I've been cheated out of a better life.....And I knew the antidote for my problem!
Joelene
Quote from: mechakitty on August 18, 2011, 10:39:49 AM
My doctor alluded to something like this himself, actually. It seems to be just a theory, since they don't have an exact mechanism for this effect, but it's backed by decades of anecdotal evidence. And, at least from personal experience, I can attest that the relaxing, calming, clarity-promoting effects of even the first week on estrogen were not placebo.
;)
I really wish I could say the same as you peeps but as long as so much remains to be done? I just don't feel this way but instead I feel like it's just another tease in a long series of tease. I really don't see the end goal happening at all right now and I really don't care to live to be old to wait for it.
Estrogen briefly took out my major anxiety, but my craziness nudged it back up to the fore about a week ago. It turns out that I have to try to keep up with my super demanding drive for success and make intelligent decisions or I become a total nutcase. Can't rest. I'll go nuts.
Quote from: Jennie on August 18, 2011, 04:47:13 AM
So please tell me your thoughts on this "Estrogen Effect" Did you notice this effect too?
No, I don't believe in it. No psychological effects at all.
I've had a huge boost to confidence and I am far less shy after starting.
Maybe it is just a placebo effect, but feeling better is still feeling better. Every effect has been positive, and I can't say that about any other medications I've ever taken.
Quote from: JennX on August 18, 2011, 07:12:39 AM
Better than pizza??? I dunno... I have had some really good pizza. ;) :icon_lol:
For that matter, I've had some pretty good Chinese food.
Quote from: VeryGnawty on August 19, 2011, 12:41:56 AM
For that matter, I've had some pretty good Chinese food.
I could eat a whole plate of eggrolls right now. There's nothing better than warm, crispy eggrolls dipped in sweet & sour.
Kay, so, given the wide range of replies, it probably only happens in some people, and it's probably highly dependent on your age, amongst other factors. I doubt it's just a placebo effect.
Just my two subjective cents here. ;)
Quote from: Lily on August 19, 2011, 02:08:20 AM
I could eat a whole plate of eggrolls right now. There's nothing better than warm, crispy eggrolls dipped in sweet & sour.
Egg rolls plz. ^-^
Whatever estrogen you people are taking i want some. I've never felt stoned off of mine!
This is an interesting theory and i can relate to feeling much calmer within my body once i took estrogen. It's quite a long time ago now so my memory is a bit "mists of time" but though emotions were intensified i do remember a feeling of being confortable within my skin that i had never felt before.
Russel Reid used hormones as part of the diagnosis. I can't comment on how safe that is but it does make sense in a way.
I had a feeling of relief after about 1/2 day, that was probably because I knew I was stopping the T from doing anymore damage. After being on it for a couple of weeks, I notice I wasn't angry as much and tad more emotional, but I feel more normal compared to my pre-HRT days if that makes any sense.
Jen
I wonder if there have been any studies on how quickly estrogen takes effect. I would have thought there would be some research although probably not on our population and it may be that we would be more sensitive due to our different chemical levels and history compared to gg women taking it e.g. post-menopausal women. Must be someone out there that knows...
For me, estrogen has made everything beautiful.
Dont get me wrong, I swing like a....well...swing (moods people) , however, I am begining to feel more comfortable in my body as my proportions become more feminine.
Also I like the fact that I can be me, and I dont have to worry about people thinking I am gay, girly, or whatever, because I am simply me.
As far as dr's being specialists, or whatever....I can tell a dr more about my body, usually, then they can tell me.
Not discounting your dr or anyting, I just dont have faith in anything other than the moment.
I've taken enough prescriptions in my day to know a drug-induced change in mental state. For me it was within the first hour. I was watching TV and there was a definite rush, like a wind swell. By the time I exhaled, I felt very, very calm.
Since that first time, nothing like that has happened. But my emotions are a lot harder to control. It might sound strange, but this is a very good thing! Before, I could just switch off feeling anything. Now, I feel like a real, complete person. :)
I wrote a thread on this a while back. You might be interested in it.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,80495.msg560598.html#msg560598 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,80495.msg560598.html#msg560598)
Yeah, I've heard about those types of TS people as well. I was scared to death that I was one at one point, actually. I guess the fact that I was petrified of spending more of my life as male should have precluded that idea.
Gotta ask, IA: How are things? Complications getting any better?
After 5 months on HRT, I dont feel like everything is amazing, like food tastes so much better, colors stand out more, etc. But then it didnt seem that way for me to begin with. What I did notice was that the dysphoria is pretty much gone. It's great to wake up and not feel this instant warning that I am not myself, something is wrong, etc. I even get my butt out of bed before noon whereas it used to be hard to get me up at 1pm.
But I like that idea. Estrogen starvation. If my brain is mapped for a woman, that would explain the monthly symptoms I get.
I'm only on a low dose of E, and only after day 2 I have noticed myself being less stressed around people. It's like i've sort of let my guard down, not so tense. It's really great :) I can't wait until my blood results show that I have the right amount of hormones in me so I can start expecting results :)
Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies, I know there is something to this "Estrogen Effect" it is just to much relief to pass off as not real or a paleebo, what ever it is, I like it, I have had a few more days to experience the effects if any, and it is getting better. I admit it is not 100% gone but I did not expect it to be, I am just happy that I have experienced so much relief, I would say at least a 50% reduction in the dysphoria and tence feelings and I nolonger ahve the urge to clench my teeth continueously, so much that my teeth would get so very sore, I even woke up my SO one night from the noise of grinding my teeth.
I can sit down and relax now where as before, I would sit down and try to relax but I could not.
I like Pizza and egg rolls too but I have to say that if I had to pick between having a pizza (no matter how good) and having my hormones then I pick the hormones.
I stopped eating pizza years ago anyway :'(
The pizza was not helping my cholestorol and I cant handle the cheese anymore, it reaks havoc on my stomach, I hate lactose intollerance. >:(
I also noticed I did feel a bit stoned on the first day but not after that, I think that must have been too much endorphins being released because of how happy I am now, I can just imagine how happy I will be when the hormones have been working there magic for a while.
That is what the "Estrogen Effect" is, it is magic. :) I know from all my reasearch and from what I have been told here and by others that there seems to be much more of us that feel the release of the grip of dysphoria, than there are for those that did not feel this effect, I hope that you all find releif and happiness weather it comes from estrogen or total transition. I know that the grip of gender dysphoria is a tight unrelenting thing and I hope we all find our releif from it so we can enjoy being ourselves and enjoy life.
Aloha to you all.
Jennie
Enjoy babe,
just don't take too much - now THAT can also play havoc, and not just with your stomach.
Hug, Axelle
Hi Axelle, no I would never take too much, I am on a low dose right now to start off with, my Dr. will adjust when needed, but it is more estrogen than I have ever had in my life and I love it, it feels good to be female :)
reminds me of that Cindy L song "girls just wana have fun" so do I , I am girl and I just wana have fun and to have estrogen like other girls, it is great. Thanks and aloha.
Jennie
And no 'curse' and cramps either, eh :-)
In a way we are blessed - at least from that point of view.
Just need this boy friend to afford me some Manolo Blahniks... OMG!
see: http://www.google.com/search?q=Manolo%20Blahnik%20what's%20so%20great%20abpoy%20them%3F&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi (http://www.google.com/search?q=Manolo%20Blahnik%20what's%20so%20great%20abpoy%20them%3F&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi)
:-)
Axelle
Congratulations, Jennie! I remember that feeling so well myself. I love hearing others talk about how much it has helped them. There is no mistaking the feeling of "rightness", and there is no replacing it.
It's not magic, it's science! :D Very, very awesome science.
I'm so happy for you. :)