I work in a low-income area at thrift store, so I'm not sure if that has to do with me noticing so many transgender and gay people coming in. It could be more about the fact that other people would give less a ->-bleeped-<- about seeing a trans person at that store than in a posh boutique. But anyway, I've noticed a fair amount of people am pretty sure are trans. Both men and women.
I sometimes really really want to strike up a low-key conversation with them, find some excuse to talk to them, you know? I get all happy when I see them.
If/when you guys see other trans people in your community (if you do) do you end up talking to them or pretend you have nothing in common?
Obviously shouting out "Hey, cool, I'm trans too!" is a dumb idea but do you ever end up just talking to them at all?
I just do the polite thing and go about with business as usual. If they happen to become a part of business as usual, I act as I'd act with anyone else.
Except for an accidental event a few weeks ago... as a little game, one of my friends and I like to pick people in the mall to stalk. We make up little stories, try to figure out which shops they're going to go into, and follow them until they go into one (then we pick someone else). Call it active peoplewatching. ;D And we're not creepy about it; we stick way back and just talk as if we're talking about anything else.
Well, a couple weeks ago, I see this woman with a haircut that I instantly fell in love with. It was short and spiky, and I bemoaned to my friend that I wished I could do my hair like that and still be seen as totally feminine. So we began to follow her. She walked all the way from one end of the mall to the other, went up the escalator, back to the end where we started the chase, then to the food court in the center of the mall. Her walk was brisk and purposeful, and her head never looked sideways into any of the shops. Well, when she got to the food court, she turned so we could see her side profile, waved to this guy in the center who then walked over to her, they hugged, and walked out of the mall hand-in-hand. And it wasn't until she turned to the side that I noticed her adam's apple and browbone... she was definitely trans, and I buried my head into my friends shoulder to stop myself from busting out laughing about what we had just done.
As I told her at the time, I, of all people, should not have been so surprised to see that. :laugh:
Quote from: Zoë Natasha on August 18, 2011, 06:19:25 PM
Except for an accidental event a few weeks ago... as a little game, one of my friends and I like to pick people in the mall to stalk. We make up little stories, try to figure out which shops they're going to go into, and follow them until they go into one (then we pick someone else). Call it active peoplewatching. ;D And we're not creepy about it; we stick way back and just talk as if we're talking about anything else.
I do that too... :)
The group I meet for dinner on tuesday was trying to figure out this week if the two guys sitting at a table near us were a couple or not. By the time they left, we had all the details of their relationship worked out (at least what we believed they were). :)
I find the 'stalker' type activity creepy. I'm very glad I'm not one for malls or any public place where people 'hang out'. Even more so after reading about this.
I don't see all the supposed trans people you do but I never cared. I see no reason to look for them and even less to address someone on the belief that they are. I think that would knock someones esteem way down if they don't pass well and if they do, you could only out them or yourself unless showing yourself to just be nosy.
I think we need a "secret sign" that we can flash each other, much like a gang sign so we can find each other.....lol
I saw a T-girl at grocery store and she was beautiful. She had short hair. I walked up to her and told her, "Who says tall girls are not pretty?" She took about 3 seconds and then said "Thanks" in an excellent voice.
Two weeks later I saw same girl and she had a hair piece on back of her hair. She walked right down same aisle smiling at me. I freaking turned down next aisle. I had total lose of confidence. She walked by and said in a mumble "Too bad!"
She was so pretty. Maybe she thought I was a guy? I am not a guy. I am so messed up. Do ugly girls got to ask pretty girls? She was flirting with me and I ran away! Not good.
Sure, I see people who look like they might be trans all the time. But I would never say anything to them.
You can't tell what a person's gender identity is just by looking at them. And even if you could, it's a topic far too personal to bring up with a stranger.
I almost thought I was the victim of this tonight! While I was scanning my groceries, this kid (well, late teens) walks up to me and says, "Can I ask you a strange question?" I kind of braced myself for what might come, but all he asked was "Are you paying in cash?"
That WAS strange...
I was at a local department store buying a pair of high heeled boots and one of the staff there was a genetic male (an assumption I know, but I prefer it to 'trans') woman.
She was beautiful! She was wearing a pant suit and heels, had an excellent voice. I so wanted to have a conversation with her but I thought that would be selfish. I most definitely do not pass and I didn't want to draw unwanted attention to her.
She was objectively gorgeous.
One girl outed herself to me by coughing. She was by herself and started coughing. She totally passed and had good talking voice. Doubt she saw me as I was in check out line and she was waiting for customer service.
...........
Leaving store an exotic thin and tall black lady was walking with a big strong black man. As I walked past her she said in a loud voice to her boyfriend., "T-girl wannabe." Her voice outed herself to me. I don't want to be trans. anything.
.......................
I love to cook and frequently go to grocery stores. I was exiting store and older trans person looked me square in eyes and said "Hi honey" with big smile. I returned a big smile and said, "Hi." It actually felt nice. It made me happy.
.....................
See numerous people at stores and wonder. Also notice that genetic girls frequently have male features and they have pleasing faces.
I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's,
And his hair was perfect.
It's hard to do because people come in such a wide array. How horrible to label someone as Trans who isn't.
Quote from: tekla on August 19, 2011, 08:56:05 AM
It's hard to do because people come in such a wide array. How horrible to label someone as Trans who isn't.
Very true. However you can compliment or stay hi to anyone. I go over to people that seem to need help and offer help. I say hi to everyone. If I like something I tell that person.
Actually I have rarely offended someone by complimenting them or saying hi.
I will not ask a person if they are trans. My feelings were hurt when that exotic lady said, "T-girl wannabe." Was she making fun of me or just sending me a message?" I do not know.
I think it would really depend on how the trans person was presenting themselves if I would like or dislike them speaking to me.
Lots of trans people I see around make me uncomfortable (when I go to my doctors, I usually see a bunch). Some are completely unaware of what they are wearing or how they are coming off.... and, trans or not, I don't think I have much in common with them (so, saying hi is fine... trying to chat is not really something I want).
Some of the trans people I see have REAL issues also. I saw one speaking to the person at the desk (in the doctors waiting room), she walked up and he was very careful not to make any assumptions and treat her normally. So he asks her something about who she is waiting to see or what it was concerning. She then went off on some crazy think about how it was obviously because she was trans and how she wasn't crazy... totally out of the blue.
Or the trans people who get SUPER offended about little things (such as calling them trans). Sorry, I just see this as kind of... uhh ... spooky.
Or some I have seen walking down the street who look like strippers. Or go way overboard with makeup / clothing...
If you look nice and dress normally (and don't seem crazy), I don't think I would have a problem chatting though (and wouldn't mind if they asked if I was trans... I am... and I'm not ashamed about it.) I also don't mind chatting about trans stuff, my friends ask me all the time about trans things ... and it is fine with me, they get to learn how great hormones are lol.
It's happened to me once, please just don't do it unless they present you an opening or relevant reason for it to come up in conversation.
I was out with some friends one night and this person thought he was being subtle (he wasn't) about trying to connect and start a conversation with me. They are someone I've seen around before, and I'm pretty sure they are somewhere on the trans-spectrum but I don't know how they personally identity. Anyway... We were sitting in the patio area of a restaurant/bar and he eventually managed to sit next to me and introduced himself with a typically male name, but clarified the spelling to be more typically female, and then our conversation was pretty much:
Him: "Can I ask you, um, so, did you used to be, like did you used to be a boy? I mean like a really long time ago or something?"
Me: "Does it matter? I'm not sure why you would want to ask that"
Him: "It's just your voice is a little weird and I didn't know"
Me: "My voice is what it is, why does it matter?"
Him: "Oh I guess it doesn't matter"
And then my friend rescued me and I went back inside with her.
I felt bad because I was totally shutting him down when it was clear he felt awkward about reaching out in the first place, but I felt vulnerable and threatened by being outed publicly. I don't pass 100% and my voice needs work for sure, but most people seem to just assume I'm a woman and that's that; if they question it they've kept those questions to themselves. To be clear, I don't go to extra lengths to hide that I have a perhaps more interesting gender history than most people, but I try to not advertise it. The part that bothers me is when the decision to discuss my history is not left up to me. Approaching me in a crowded place and asking me an overly personal question is invasive, period.
When I've encountered other trans* people in doing whatever in my day I'm as nice to them as I am to anyone else. I kinda figure that I'm transitioning so I can be normal, not so I can join some secret club.
Or some I have seen walking down the street who look like strippers.
And you know that because:
a) Mom used to dress like that for 'work.'
b) All of Dad's 'dates' used to dress like that.
c) Your sister has spent more time on the pole then Tiger Woods has spent on golf courses.
I work next door to strippers, and I sure don't see any TG/TS persons dress like that. They can't come close to carrying it off. They don't have the money either. On the old sex worker/fleshmonger scale strippers are doing pretty well. A good dancer can make $40K+, not bad for no education. Count in all the side bets and private dances and stuff, I bet it adds up. At any rate, they are wearing really expensive ->-bleeped-<-. It's all Pink, Juicy Couture and high-class-slut-wear from the big mall and Union Square, not from the Goodwill. They also tend to have pretty good (at least at the Crazy Horse) bodies and faces - real good.
Street whores, you know the hooker at the corner 'hey honey you want a date tonight', they dress like crap. Look like they'd been dragged through hell too. I do see a lot of TS dressed like that. But that's because they are street hookers. So I cut them some slack.
And I don't know, perhaps it's part of living in the big city, or in Cali, or whatever but there are always some people going overboard at any given time. That's just part of life. I try not to judge them. It just may be their assigned day to go overboard.
You know you can always say "hi" and introduce yourself: "Well hello there! My name is tekla west, of the Southhampton & Throckmorton Wests of course (of course), but you can just call me "Kat" all my friends do. What brings you here this wonderful evening?"
Quote from: MGKelly on August 19, 2011, 11:56:34 AM
our conversation was pretty much:
Him: "Can I ask you, um, so, did you used to be, like did you used to be a boy? I mean like a really long time ago or something?"
Me: "Does it matter? I'm not sure why you would want to ask that"
Him: "It's just your voice is a little weird and I didn't know"
Me: "My voice is what it is, why does it matter?"
Him: "Oh I guess it doesn't matter"
And then my friend rescued me and I went back inside with her.
I felt bad because I was totally shutting him down
I'd call what you said being nice. If someone asked me a question that was totally inappropriate like that I'd chew them out. There is no excuse for manners that bad or for sticking your nose where it doesn't belong.
Pretty much, if you're out in public, you're open for public consumption. If that sucks. Stay home.
Comes down to the same comment.
Treat people as you wish to be treated. Simple really.
Cindy
I normally interact with people in situations that call for interaction. I don't think that you'd necessarily find two people who had corrective surgery for a cleft palette searching each other out. Yet, for some reason, "we" have this overpowering need to seek out others like us. This is the only thing we have in common. Is it reason enough to step across the mall to introduce yourself? I'm not likely to do it. I might be very wrong with my first impression and make a horrible mistake.
Cindi
I'll modify my post I totally agree with Cindi, why seek out people for comment unless you wish to relate to them? But as I said if you do, treat them as you wish to be treated. I had a great time last night (another thread) but meeting people who I have never met before, they had never met me, we had a ball. We all wanted a good night out so we had food drink and acceptance of the four of us being different. I don't pass particularly vocally, they had never met a TG person as far as they knew, buy Hey it didn't matter. We wanted to be friends. We now are.
Cindy
< Sorry Cindi, is a group of Cindy's a Cindication; sorry Sis :laugh: :laugh:>
Quote from: tekla on August 19, 2011, 08:56:05 AMHow horrible to label someone as Trans who isn't.
Kinda like chirping, "So, when's the baby due?"
I smile and say hello, like I do with anyone.
Quote from: Cindi Jones on August 21, 2011, 02:55:29 AM
I don't think that you'd necessarily find two people who had corrective surgery for a cleft palette searching each other out. Yet, for some reason, "we" have this overpowering need to seek out others like us.
Probably because people with other disabilities and conditions don't get near as much hate and discrimination as we get.
Don't people who drive corvettes flash their lights at each other? I drive an old P/U truck. Sometimes I experience Automobiledysphoria along with my gender dysphoria. It would be a lot cheaper if I could just buy the corvette! In all seriousness, isn't it nice to know we aren't alone in this universe? At least when it is in a positive way. When I was young, neighbors smiled and waved: coming to an intersection (in my dream corvette), I could see the expressions and eyes of the other driver and know their intention of stopping or not. Today, the other driver is on the phone, behind smoked out windows. We live in secluded lonely suburbs, rarely venturing out for human interaction. I remember the few times that I have actually interacted with other humans in a non-business situation. Mostly they are fond, vivid memories in a life of too much social isolation and the grey sameness of making a living. I wonder if those corvette drivers make the occasional friend, develop a sense of community, feel empowered because of the simple act of acknowledgement? Gee, we ought to vote on it and if the "friendliness" resolution passes, we will put a chapter on it in the Trans handbook we all get!
We I live in secluded lonely suburbs, rarely venturing out for human interaction.
Most people (about 80%) in the US live in urban areas, of that 80%, 60% of them live in areas of 200,000 or more. LA and NYC, between the two of them, have 10% of the total population. So most people don't live in lonely suburbs, or in rural areas. I think there are a lot of people in these rooms who don't interact much, but I don't think they are the majority of people in the US.
Quote from: LordKAT on August 18, 2011, 07:58:06 PM
I find the 'stalker' type activity creepy. I'm very glad I'm not one for malls or any public place where people 'hang out'. Even more so after reading about this.
I don't see all the supposed trans people you do but I never cared. I see no reason to look for them and even less to address someone on the belief that they are. I think that would knock someones esteem way down if they don't pass well and if they do, you could only out them or yourself unless showing yourself to just be nosy.
This. Furthermore it's pretty crappy to assume you know something about someone's identity. For all you know that "FTM" you see a cis man with femme-ish features or a butch cis woman.
Not to mention the whole can of worms you could be opening up if this person IS trans and stealth. Imagine how that would feel mentally to them.
No I don't want to talk to them about it at all, they might feel really bad if I did. They are not trying to look trans so I don't assume them looking trans is an invitation to talk about trans things. Drawing attention to it is just letting them know that people can tell.
Unless I'm talking to them for some other completely different reason and it happened to come up in conversation (it does happen...apparently i have a trustworthy face) I wouldn't have the sheer nerve and affront to pretend I knew about someone from just looking at them.
I would just say hello and transact whatever business I had with them, the same as anyone else. If they start to steer conversation that way, I'd just go with it without saying anything that might cause upset. If there is time for a longer conversation, fair enough, but if I am trying to pass, I don't expect to be outed either.
Karen.
I do get a happy feeling when I see what I think is other trans people, of all gender and sexes. I never usually confront them in anyway, sometimes I just stare from a distance, sometimes we make eye contact, and something about the eye contact we make, it feels different then eye contact with someone else. It is some strange connection, perhaps I only feel, or perhaps the other feels it too, or not, as I am not trans.
I can't help but feel a sense of pride when I see someone willing to be themselves, I think that is what it is.
Quote from: Sera on August 25, 2011, 12:34:46 PM
I do get a happy feeling when I see what I think is other trans people, of all gender and sexes. I never usually confront them in anyway, sometimes I just stare from a distance, sometimes we make eye contact, and something about the eye contact we make, it feels different then eye contact with someone else. It is some strange connection, perhaps I only feel, or perhaps the other feels it too, or not, as I am not trans.
I think I know what you mean. Of the people in my life who I talk to on a regular basis, there are one or two who I think may be trans. I enjoy the thought that we might have this in common, even though I would never, ever say anything.
Quote from: Sera on August 25, 2011, 12:34:46 PM
I do get a happy feeling when I see what I think is other trans people, of all gender and sexes. I never usually confront them in anyway, sometimes I just stare from a distance, sometimes we make eye contact, and something about the eye contact we make, it feels different then eye contact with someone else. It is some strange connection, perhaps I only feel, or perhaps the other feels it too, or not, as I am not trans.
I can't help but feel a sense of pride when I see someone willing to be themselves, I think that is what it is.
This is a little more what I was referring to with my OP. I never meant to ask "do you want to shout across the room to them?" or even talk to them about being trans. I just mean there is this excitement I get when I recognize someone as being off the binary gender radar and want to come up with some way of starting a casual conversation with them. For some reason, when I meet a trans or non-cisgender person, there is some kind of connection when we lock eyes, kind of a mutual "I know something about you" look.
And I don't go looking for others. I just end up sitting next to a transwoman on the bus, or a couple of genderqueer people come into work, or a transguy isshopping in the same store I am. Does my noticing the mean they don't pass? of course not. But being so involved in the gay and trans comunity and especially since coming out as trans myself, I've noticed there's a certain feling or look about someone who is gender variant or trans*. No, I don't have the right to decide what their identity is and I wasn't implying that. But I do have some kind of sense that they're different than the average Jane or Joe you walk by every day.
What methods are you using to identify someone as trans or gender non variant?