For a while now, i feel that transgenders (FtMs mainly) have become a fad, i mean it's like how everyware i look on the internet, are all wanting to become men, not just that but, gay men, girl-crossdressing transmen, even "bisexual and/or gay boi sometimes crossdressing transman" , i mean i'm ok with that, but it's when friends who are suddenly all 'i am totally a male inside and an effeminate male too, and want to have sex with ex-ex-gay men because i like yaoi it's hawt", then after a year she wasn't really bothered because she didn't feel like it anymore. Another one i know, a butch lesbian, was thinking of going through transition so she could get married as a male on the certificate.
In all honesty, I never wanted to be part of the GLBT community, i support it all the way, but i hate being a transmale, i just want to be male, born one, but i know i have to know i have to go through surgery to be happier. I did join this website though since people seemed more serious about it.
I've tried keeping quiet with this because i felt like i was judging people, because it's alright to be who you want, but when it comes to a point where girls suddenly feel like being a male because of a hunch and their friend did, when alot of us had gone through our whole lives feeling like we're in the wrong body. it kind of puts me really down, it also kind of makes me feel worse that i came out after hiding it for years, a little while after the girl who didn't take it seriously, then people thought i copied her.
I really don't want to seem terrible, and i guess i really shouldn't judge the person unless i met them, but i didn't know where else to talk about this.
Is ->-bleeped-<- a popular trend these days? It would be good to know from the experts.
Lets be honest now, despite becoming more understood, within the rather hetronormative binary western world, gender is still the last taboo. there are plenty of people who question their gender at some point in their lives and used the fact that it's taboo to make a statement. This does not make there questioning of their gender identity less valid or indeed yours...the people who are going to transition will, while those that are just exploring as it were won't. Which is why that year is quite important...even though I absolutely hate being in this inbetween limbo.
Besides I feel exactly the same way about hipster [expletive]s who cruise around on long boards acting like complete [expletive]'s and think 20mph is quick. They give those of us who actually give a damn about the sport a bad name, but seeing as I can't go push each and everyone of them down a 40mph hill all I can do is make sure I'm polite and friendly to the people who tar me with the same brush.
This is something that happens when a new idea is introduced to mainstream thought. People explore it. Some try it on for size, some reject it, many make jokes about it, and the few of us who were familiar with it to begin with roll our eyes and bemoan its many new incarnations. Next thing we know, it will be "normal", and so will we.
WOW, I must be in a very small part of the U. S. here as I've had a lot of health issues and haven't been to many other places in the last couple of years . This is Bothersome to say the very least . Hell, I wouldn't wish being "Trans " on anyone !!!!!!!!! ellen
Quote from: Alexmakenoise on August 20, 2011, 09:47:30 AM
This is something that happens when a new idea is introduced to mainstream thought. People explore it. Some try it on for size, some reject it, many make jokes about it, and the few of us who were familiar with it to begin with roll our eyes and bemoan its many new incarnations. Next thing we know, it will be "normal", and so will we.
Used to be abnormal to even talk about it. I like the, 'yeah? so?', attitudes much better.
I believe more people are just feeling safer coming out as transgender nowa'days.
I have no trouble with someone who needs surgery to transition. I don't have a problem with someone, "trying it on for size." I am a bit afraid that some will make physical changes that they come to regret. The current regret rate is very low, because it was so difficult to do in the past and the ramifications were so extreme. Today, some get so much affirmation and support that I could easily see the error rate going up. Some threads on some websites actively encourage lying to gatekeepers. At least a poorly chosen or misplaced (even misspelled) tattoo can be removed or covered up with makeup. Going mtf is pretty permanent. I am in no way questioning the need or identity of some who transition. Unfortunately surgery is often presented as the first and only solution. I don't want to stop anyone, just present the seriousness of the decision. I mean cops get confused, easily swayed people to confess to murder all the time. Some people are that lonely for acceptance that they don't think first, then regret with leisure. Again, this is not a slam against transition, but please, read some of the questions from kids asking if they are "really trans." I hope that this hasn't offended anyone.
I haven't really seen any signs of it being a fad. Where I live, breaking gender norms at all is frowned upon. That said, there were two girls I knew who did do and say things simply in an effort to be rebellious.
One girl had a few older family members who wanted her to be a girl in makeup and pretty dress, so, out of spite, she tried to appear as androgynous as possible. She failed at androgyny, but in the end she moved further away from those family members and has been living happily with lots of makeup and... pretty dresses. Even though she enjoyed the things they wanted her to do, she went through a stage where she was trying to be rebellious in every way. I don't particularly mind that because she wasn't claiming to be transgendered, she was exploring the way she presented herself.
The other girl seriously did do the 'because i like yaoi it's hawt' thing. She actually talked a lot about how she was going to go to a "->-bleeped-<- doctor" to have top surgery done so that she could "run around with my shirt off shouting, 'I'm a pretty boy!'" and then make "yaoi films". All of that stuff just infuriated me. She wasn't transgender/transsexual/gender-variant/whatever-other-word-you-want-to-use; she was just some crazy girl saying those things to get attention.
I doubt the people who are transitioning as a trend get far in their transition - no way would any fad be worth the discrimination one faces as a transgender.
I notice it more as an online thing rather than in real life. It reminds me of the bisexuality/pansexuality trend.
I identify as an effeminate transguy. For me it's not a phase at all or a fad. I've felt like this since i was 9 years old. The feeling has never gone away. I've been able to repress it for a few months at a time, but the feeling always surfaces itself again, and every time that it comes back it hits harder than it did the last time. No, I do not fit the stereotype of a typical man, and I never will. I plan to go to beauty school after I graduate to become a hair stylist, I love dressing up and looking good, I like to sew and knit. I could go on and on about all the things that don't make me a "Real Man" or "trans enough" in our society, or even in the trans community. But I never decided to just blindly jump on the band wagon because all of a sudden Chaz Bono has a documentary and a book out. I feel like the only way that I will ever be happy, the only way I'll ever be able to function in society, and the only way that I'll be able to have healthy relationships with people, both platonic and otherwise, is if I can transition medically and socially so that I can be accepted as a man. Not as transgender, but as a man.
I wouldn't really call it a fad around here. At most, we have a student who is a drag queen, and will even crossdress in public sometimes, but still firmly identifies as male. Additionally, the GSA has ran a few drag shows. I have no idea how popular they actually are. I only know two transgendered individuals in person, both FtM. One is just some random guy I've spoken with a few time, who attended my University, then dropped out, but still hangs around. The other is my boyfriend, who I met at my University.
I agree that attitudes are lightening up ever so slightly, and people are perhaps becoming a little more comfortable coming out, but I still don't think people would consider it "cool" to be part of a group that receives a great deal of discrimination and criticism from a large part of society.
Thankyou all who replied, i thought it was only me who kinda noticed this.
I understand very well that they won't be that way forever, Also i do know very well that you don't have to be a stereotypical man to be a MAN, honestly i've got the personality of a timid little child and i know men who are the same, because no man is the same. It's just those who are in it for the rebbelion/shock factor you know? Also i am on the internet, and the numbers of certain people always seem larger, even though we are all split across the world.
thankyou all
Whenever some thing goes mainstream, it becomes 'official'. People question themselves from time to time and that's good. Being trans certainly isn't faddish. It's who I am. I agree that it isn't the taboo it once was but being trans runs much deeper than fads, clothing, or feelings at the moment.
Gennee
Transgendered people have always been around. However, as being trans becomes more widely accepted, we are seeing far more publicity about it. This is not a "fad", it's a sign of acceptance. If it seems that every news story is talking about someone wanting to transition, it's quite likely because trans people who would otherwise have stayed in the shadows are now feeling confident to let people know who they are and what's going on with them. I, personally, didn't know what it was to be trans until I was 18 and saw Boys Don't Cry. Did Boys Don't Cry make me trans? Hell no! It just alerted me to the answers I was seeking. However, because of rampant transphobia and lack of information at the time, I didn't have any way of looking further into transition until I was 23. I say the more news on us, as long as it's positive, the better! Do we really want to be the tiniest minority on earth, and therefore stay in the closet forever? I know I certainly don't.
It would deeply piss me off if being transgender became a fad because we struggle so much just to identify while these assumed others are appropriating our struggles, for the sake of it being a fad? That sounds absolutely ridiculous and so is this dialogue. not that discussing this is ridiculous, I just don't think it is true. As I stated above i feel more people are feeling safer coming out. These are just later drawn thoughts and not a reaction to anyone's post.
People have often played with visual ->-bleeped-<-, especially certain hipster circles - and those hipster circles break out, get lots of headlines and copycats for a while. I don't think identity can be a trend though, unless more people are raised in ways that are all of a sudden springing out as people with trans-identities, but I doubt it.
It is probably better that people can explore who they are more freely now in most places. The younger a person is when they question who they are, the less likely they'll have gender issues as baggage later. I would think. If some people appear frivolous about it, that's okay too. Everyone is different.
Another good thing is that the people who explore their gender while young may be better about accepting it if their children do the same thing.
I think
Let me share something I found interesting at a Hospital I visit here , ( VCU ) . I was talking with a new doctor who was surprised in my answer that I said I wasn't Gay as I was dressed as usual in a skirt suit and low heels . She asked me what preference I had . I said I had none as the medication I had been on has taken away all of what ever sexual appetite I had ................. ellen
This will sound far more rude than I mean it to, I warn you now.
Looking at the first post, it seems you think that anyone identifying as FTM that wants to stay feminine isn't trans, and if they consider themselves gay men that they're not trans. Or any FTMs who call themselves cross dressers or Queens.
I'm an effeminate gay Queen FTM, and here is why: I want to be a pretty man, not a pretty woman. I want to keep my general looks, not my born bits. FTMs/MTFs come in MANY different types.
There are also a lot of young FTMs who treat it as a fad because they don't know how else to go about it, and stop "being trans" because they don't have the support to feel they're allowed to be themselves.
Quote from: Xybergeist on August 20, 2011, 01:16:05 AM
'i am totally a male inside and an effeminate male too, and want to have sex with ex-ex-gay men because i like yaoi it's hawt", then after a year she wasn't really bothered because she didn't feel like it anymore. Another one i know, a butch lesbian, was thinking of going through transition so she could get married as a male on the certificate.
while the lesbian sounds like she has quite a lot of problems leading her to consider transitioning, the yaoi fangirl made me lol. yaoi really is a fad, i'm sure it doesn't make too many girls wish they were a man, but i've seen enough girls who want to have sex with gay men, and being a man would definitely make that easier. i wondered for a while if i too was only affected by yaoi, but in the end i realized that can't be it. i've always been different, not only after becoming a fan of interesting genres
Age of the internet. Everything is public, and everything is anonymous, and everyone is everywhere. You can't say for sure that there were less trans 20 years ago, because 1) times are changing, the youth is more open 2) you could not go google search and find everyone in the world.
Forgive me, I'm not an F2M and I certainly don't know whether it is a fad or not. I'm not sure that being trans is similar to a style of jeans... Although I suppose one does have to try on a few to figure out what really suits you. Unless it doesn't respect us, I think this is healthy for those individuals exploration.
I wonder if it is a fad or that as people in many communities begin to recognise that just as our fingerprints are different so are the shades of gender. Maybe this is what leads to more freedom for people to try on what fits for them. It might have a faddish element in that there might be times and spaces where it is safer and more comfortable to try certain things which allows some who will not stay to see if it is for them. The one thing I would guess, or at least hope, is that most that go down the road that far will never return fully to a hyper-rigid binary gender world view. If so, then I'll take the faddishness if it will give us more freedom and understanding.
perhaps not a fad but a style. For people who may not be trans. Like how the metrosexuals co-opted the traits of gay men.
I don't think it's a fad mainly because those who are actually serious about it don't just change their minds. It can't become a fad if it started as something totally serious and it will continue to be as such. It's not an easy process for most people.
As for those people who just wanted to "try being trans" because they wanted to "get in touch with their masculine/feminine side", if they even exist, they seem like the same kind of people who get into everything for several months and then just drop it like it's going out of season. Personal expression never goes out of season, and those people can't represent the whole population. They're just a natural reaction to society's growing awareness of transpeople.
Nope, don't think we can call it a fad.
The idea of trans as a "trend" started with certain faux-feminist hatemonger bloggers who use the term "transtrenders" as a derogatory term for transsexuals and transgenders alike, arguing that "all" trans people are trans because it's Trendy right now.
It's not trendy.
It's not desirable to be hated.
It's not "fun" to drag yourself through hoops looking for help from professionals who may or may not meet your requests with hostility.
Thankyou yet again everybody for more comments, each one makes me feel a little more better on the subject, hearing other's opinions.
And i understand, i know that with this, it can open up more opurtunity with us, i understand that you dont have to be a stereotypical male to be a male, and i know that for some it's just a shockfactor and a several month thing, i only just get iffed because i feel it's taken advantage of is all. but yeah it is good that someone should express their feelings of what they are, trans or not [8
I think the fear of it being a fad is what helps keep gatekeepers in charge, which in my opinion is worse than any harm this supposed fad is causing. There are still places like Germany where you have to do a RLT for a year before they will even give you hormones. That's just to make sure you're "serious" about transitioning. If you seem too eager, they tend to not take you seriously.
As far as it being a fad, I don't really see any problem with people wanting to explore gender for whatever reasons. The sooner gender has no taboo the better.
I'm young, and although it makes me furious to have to say this, I truly do feel as if being trans, especially ftm, is becoming sort of a trend. When I first heard about the "trans-trending" debate, I thought that maybe it was just because of the internet allowed people to connect and share their stories.... But sadly, I have seen trans-trending first hand... even at my school.
One thing I noticed is that the introduction of the ftm character, Adam, on Degrassi, led to many people falsely coming out as trans. (I'll give an example of a few kids at my school) They came out, asked to be called by a different name and pronouns, just to tell everyone a month later that they just did it to be cool... Ugh. Why? ???
But I just don't get why being trans could ever turn into a trend.... but you never know in today's world.
Honestly, I do agree that I think a lot of people see it as a fad, and I'll also mention that a lot of people in my community seem to think that it's nothing more than a sexual fetish. I see nothing wrong in effeminate FtMs, and I see nothing wrong in gay FtMs. People come in all shapes and sizes and personalities and identities.
I do however have a problem in certain people who say that they're FtM, but seem to have no drive to change how they're seen... o.o; They don't have any intention of getting a change on their birth certificate, they don't intend to change their license, they don't intend on a name change ( Even if they have a really girly name, ) they don't bind, or pack, or wear male clothing, they have hair to their waists, get offended in you call them a 'he,' ... etc ...
Now, please don't interrpret this to mean that I think that all FtMs have to bind and pack and have short hair and have to wear man clothes, and so on and so forth. I do however think it's odd when you want to 'be' a man, but you get mad when people call you 'sir,' o.o;; ...
Seriously ... It baffles me ...
That, and most of the 'guys' that I know who've acted this way in the past, due this for about a month and say, 'No, I wanna be a girl now, being a guy is too hard,' Even when they haven't lived as men at all! O>O;; *Shot*
Yes, that's my two cents, take it or leave it.
This may sound a bit blunt...but at least for me this is no fad. It's about finally finding stability in my life so I can live for the first time. Being in constant limbo with myself and the world around me...is very exhausting and painful. To the point of being potentially life-threatening if I don't do something about it. I wouldn't be able to imagine why someone would try to do something cause it's just a fad for the amount of dangers, risks, and discrimination that come with it. There would have to be a good reason for it, because they feel a certain way, to do something.
I think as the world opens up, it is nice to see more gender variation though, because I think the black and white genders of the binary just seem a little bit dry to me. More people that do feel different from this binary (and I think there's a lot more of us out there than we may think) are becoming more enabled to come out and express that as things are opening up. But despite that, it is still a very touch subject for society as a whole, and one that I am very aware of every day as I move forward with my path in life.
I posted a topic like this in the FTM forum a few months ago. I think like others have said, it's the age of the internet. People are more able to express themselves online where most people communicate with other trans* folk. You see a much bigger trans* community on tumblr/youtube then anywhere else. Such a big community could make it appear to be a fad. People are more able to express themselves and it's the age of information. You can find everything you need to know about getting a therapist, the effects of hormones, surgery etc to transition medically. People are able to put a name on feelings they've been having a lot easier then probably even 10 years ago thanks to the internet.
As far as people "playing the role". I find people who discover that transition isn't for them will find that out in due time. They'll realize how difficult it really is not just getting everything in order medically, but socially as well. Like coming out to friends, possibly losing friends/lovers/family. Most people won't take risks like that if it is merely the flavor of the week...
I dont feel at this point in time that it is a fad but I understand where you are coming from. I think theres still a lot of taboo around the subject and its not as known as other issues but its starting to come out more now like a teenage soap we have in England called hollyoaks has a 15 year old transguy on it who is attracted to guys and I think it really helps people to understand the issue. But on the other hand when you're like 13-16 you tend to try and be different usually to be noticed and I sort of think that with lots of trans stuff on TV some kids might go "oh yeah im trans" to their mates and then it kind of takes away the seriousness of the subject like a lot of people came out as gay in school but werent actually gay. One thing that springs to mind is I suffer from depression and psychosis and so it was hard for me in school because if I tried to tell people this they would probably think it was an act. There was a girl at school who would say she was schizophrenic when she wasnt at all, it was just so people would pay attention to her and that hurt me a lot because she, as well as others, were taking away the seriousness behind an issue that I was genuinely suffering with and so I do feel somewhat the same with the trans issues. Im glad that its being brought to peoples attention now but I dont want it to turn into a fad because there might be some 13 year old kid who is suffering from it but people wont take them as seriously if everyone else is acting that way.
Anyway thats just my thoughts on the subject.
Quote from: VakarianPride on August 26, 2011, 12:00:43 PM
This will sound far more rude than I mean it to, I warn you now.
Looking at the first post, it seems you think that anyone identifying as FTM that wants to stay feminine isn't trans, and if they consider themselves gay men that they're not trans. Or any FTMs who call themselves cross dressers or Queens.
I'm an effeminate gay Queen FTM, and here is why: I want to be a pretty man, not a pretty woman. I want to keep my general looks, not my born bits. FTMs/MTFs come in MANY different types.
There are also a lot of young FTMs who treat it as a fad because they don't know how else to go about it, and stop "being trans" because they don't have the support to feel they're allowed to be themselves.
I understand where both of you are coming from on this. To me, it does seem like there are a lot of people out there who may not actually be trans and are saying they are. What if they're just confused and too eager to wait and figure things out before they tell everyone they know for sure? I mean, for me anyway, I didn't know what GID was or anything but I've always known that I *should* be a man. Sure, I spent years pretending it wasn't true and hoping that my trying to ignore it would be good enough. But I just always *knew*. And then the thought just popped into my head: I'm transgendered.
Much freaking out later, I've more or less come to terms with it. I don't personally know anyone else who is trans, so until I joined here at Susan's I was fishin' in the dark.
I guess I'm trying to say that I don't really see how people can't know that this is them, but what if the person or people in question just blocked that part of them out and are finally opening it back up?
Just my thoughts on it. ~
May sound selfish but the more the merrier, it raises our profile and hopefully lowers intolerance. Rigid gender roles have cursed this world for millennia, surely anything can be an improvement on that?
I feel that it is definitely becoming a fad. However, I am speaking as a non-binary and with that, God, is the fad even worse than with FTM in many ways. It's very frustrating because it undermines people who actually are. I can understand exploring your gender, that's fine, but all the angst and how they over react to issues that they don't even really face... It's making most of the people trying to be trans* allies tired of dealing with them, and to a point making non-binary as a whole appear to be an adolescent phase. ( I suppose, they think male and female are only extreme points; and since they don't meet either point, great Scott, they must be genderqueer.)
In addition, it makes it very hard to find other people, who I can actually relate to, and in some ways, makes me wish even more that I could just stop being non-binary, because their abuse of the term is making me feel like some sort of joke. Hell, right now I'm not even sure if being genderqueer isn't just a stupid adolescent phase, and there really is no comfortable place for me, but I should just suck it up and try to pick a side (and from there it will settle out). But you can't talk sense to these people, because what can you say without "violating their gender identity?" I don't think they grasp the difference between wanting to be a certain gender and actually being that gender. Also, its fine to sometimes present as "gender->-bleeped-<-" or androgynous (gender->-bleeped-<- and androgynous are popular right now) and still be cis. It's also fine to be gender-questioning; just don't throw a bloody parade about it. (Even on the internet, deary)
Hell, they'd probably even argue the same points I am without even realize their being hypocritical. Hell, maybe I'm just a hypocrite and the jokes on me. I felt so relieved when, I first came across the term. Now, I feel like a fool, but after getting hope; it's hard to go back my previous line of thinking (casually ignoring that gender exists more than a pronoun here and there as best as possible).
Ah, my apologies for the venting and possibly offensive tangent. The last bit below might be useful though.
Part of the reason this is so widespread with FAAB's might be partially because of a common medical disease known as PCOS (said to affect one in five "women"), which has gender confusion as one of the effects. However, once on treatment (which can sometimes be as simple as birth control, sometimes a bit more.) most people go back to feeling more comfortable as female.
People jumping on because "yaoi is hot" is what gives yaoi lovers a bad name. I am a hardcare yaoi lover. If the relationship in a manga isn't yaoi then I won't read it because I have issues with heterosexual relationships and always have even when I was in one...I just don't like it and it's a big turn off for me. Also when I discovered yaoi I was self-identifying as a gay guy in a girl's body (a friend actually suggested that term first when he met me and I was like "o.o That is exactly how I feel.") Then I jumped onto yaoi because I was like "Yay! There are books involving gay relationships and sex! I can now read something that sits closer to home!" I was really excited about it because I had no idea that there were books depicting this and that books were fairly normal...
It helped a lot with my gender identity and realizations and it introduced me to roleplaying (like story writing). It was an escape into a world where I could truly be me. I could be the rather feminine, androgynous looking male who was in a relationship with another male. I could just be me. I still engage in reading yaoi, but no roleplaying/story writing since no one wants to do that with me, lol. So, I thank yaoi for just being an outlet and something fun to read.
It's possible to like yaoi and have it help you with gender issues and it not be a phase for you. It could be a stepping stone.
Anyway, onto whether or not it's a fad:
It's possible it's becoming a fad, but it's also becoming more socially accepted so more people are coming out. It's also becoming more normal to question one's gender and look at different gender expressions. I don't really feel it's a fad right now, but I have also never met someone who was like "omg, yaoi is hot! I am so a guy." or "hey, that person is FtM so I must do that, too, because it's cool." This is including when I was on various sites catering to yaoi lovers and when I was hanging out with people who were yaoi lovers, and people who just had a slightly different gender expression than their physical appearance.
I agree that with the way society has changed in my lifetime it now has a good deal of appeal, where as it once had absolutely none. I also think that some people are taking advantage of said present day appeal and "jumping-on-the-bandwagon". However, as far as it being merely a fad, no. Feeling free to express a large part of one's nature that has been buried for more than thirty years is not a fad. Are the beginnings of the downfall of sexism (?)--which I believe shall fall much more quickly and completely than racism, because to name one thing it doesn't have the same them-against-us built in foundation--a fad?
FtMs can be whoever they are same as cis males whether they are effeminate, gay, or not. That doesn't mean they're faking or that it's a fad.
However, I have found that people put waayyy too much emphasis on the social stuff. Like "I'm female, but I don't act like a "typical female" (whatever that is), so I must be male" or "I'm male, but I like typically female stuff (again, what does that even mean?), therefore, I must be female." Also, in my generation and where I grew up, "girly" is considered an insult (yay sexism), so I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of girls started claiming to be trans to avoid being something that is seen as bad.
I've noticed it's even worse among the "genderqueer" people. Every single bit of information I could find talked about people "subverting gender roles" which actually enforces them and which I can't relate to at all. It's very unhelpful and frustrating for people who are actually looking for answers.
I see the fad, just like the emo slashers wanna be's; damn posers
I was just wondering this myself (if, esp, the ftm) was a fad. I think in some it is. I also read an article that stated that all this was due to sexism. (THough this person didn't distinguish between real trans and fadish "trans", so she kind of ruined her argument, imo.) If she hadn't gone so far, I might agree that some of this looks like really narrow gender role interpretation-- and feeling squeezed by this.
OTOH, such is the internet, and I doubt this fadish-ness would exist without the net. Kids will always be exploring various things, and the number of things open to explore are quite a lot higher with the internet. I would guess though that there are really quite a lot more ftm people than has currently been imagined. Older estimates said that there were many more mtf people. So this might account for the seeming increase.
The other thing is that this is most likely a spectrum type of thing and it may just be much more common with the high end of the spectrum in the most distress, and the low ends at no distress at all.
I better stop as I might be rambling. Kind of new on the forum and only have posted in the androgyne side.
--Jay Jay