Hi all,
I decided to give Christianity another chance, after departing from the faith several years ago to pursue less involved passive agnostic type beliefs.
My non-binarism I believe is a major factor in addition to a few doctrine issues, in my leaving the church.
I had become very much against the denomination of my birth, which barely resides in the christian domain, Mormon or LDS. I had even served a 26 month mission to the Philippines. In addition my own critical thinking and research had led to forming several anti-beliefs. I had never known any other Christian type beliefs. I just knew that I did not want the faith that I was born into.
At the beginning of the year, one of my goals was to read the entire bible this year, except from a non-denomination perspective. As I read through the first few books, doing so led me to get some study guides (catholic old testament & new testament study guides), trying to make sense of the information presented. This time my perspective is not influenced by any denomination, rather very much non-denominational, or several denomination. After the old testament study guide, that led me to get 2 different perspective theology books (baptist and charismatic/pentecostal), and one that tries to cover basic beliefs for all Christians writen by an Arminian Christian writer.
I then was interested in psychology vs Christianity so i bought Modern Psychotherapies: A Comprehensive Christian Appraisal. This book facinated me, since having received therapy in college and taking a intro psychology class in college, things semmed to make more sense, when compared to Christianity. Psychology really is what I believed governed our lives, after my leaving Christianity. If I could make sense of how Christianity could mingle and mix with Psychology, then Christianity would make much more sense to me, and be more believable.
I breifly pursued the spritiual gifts area buying books on prophesy, healing, and spiritual warfare.
Joyce Meyer really attracted me. I love her wit, stories and humor. Female pastors, preachers, and ministers are something I had never encountered. I very much believe now that gender should not limit who can lead churches and ministries.
Recently, I started to learn some apologetics and philosophy. And have some hermeneutics and sermon development stuff coming.
I also enrolled in a cellphone app theology school (evangelical based), wanting a little more instruction from a more official source.
I had always loved Jesus's teachings, even after leaving the church. Even when studying buddhism, the similarities to Jesus were uncanny (having read The Gospel of Buddha). What Jesus said and what sie did I can see are very non-binary.
Love ya all
Kendall
Interesting post Kendra.
As a fairly relaxed Anglican (Episcopalian) I have no problem reconciling my life with Christianity. I'm glad you have found some support and reassurance in the Bible. Isaac Asimov's guides to the Bible are great for a lot of historical background that helps make sense of things too. All the begattings etc.
From my point of view, and I stress it is mine and without wishing to offend anyone, I really can't consider the LDS to be a branch of Christianity. There are too many differences for me. I am quite happy to consider it as a seperate indigenous American religion though.
Enjoy your new beginning.
Karen.
I'm personally not a huge fan of Joyce Meyer or Christian Psychology (I used to be big into both - I was a fundamentalist pentecostal). I think both are too often anti-gay (and, by extension, anti-trans). But that said, God can speak in many ways to many different people, and I won't say that there aren't good things in both. One of the confusing things about this world is that you can get a bunch of things right while getting some things wrong at the same time - a person can do both great good and great evil simultaneously. It's not quite as clear cut as I would like the world to be.
I'm glad you are looking back towards Christianity. I am ashamed at how the Church too often makes God's love unappealing to people by saying that God's love is conditional and that He doesn't love people who are authentic and honest. Obviously God's love is unconditional and He loves authenticity - but too often that isn't what is communicated by organized religion.
While I would be seen as a servant of the devil by the denomination I came to Christ in (they aren't exactly welcoming of non-cisgendered people or their spouses), I recognize how much good that it did in my life. Yes, I had to unlearn some of the garbage that they added to Christ's love. But that doesn't mean everything was bad. The biggest shift in my thinking occurred when I was saved - but the shift that has taken place as I learned to relate to God based on my own mind, soul, and heart instead of just believing what the pastor said has been nearly as large in my life.
It sounds like you've had an interesting journey, and I will pray that it continues for you!
Myself as well. After roaming about the other denominations, I am coming back to the Methodist church. I just got tired with the agnosts, athiests and libertines that I was associating with. I did some research and found some changes to that denomination, including a transgendered minister.
Joelene
Hm,
interesting to read how you are trying to get back to the more spiritual and less dogmatic side of Christianity.
I wish you lots of success with this, yet here is my caveat:
WITH ALL THINGS RELIGIOUS AND SPIRITUAL IT SO DEPENDS WHO YOU ARE LISTEN TO AND READ!
There are SO many false prophets about, a lot of them can sound and read pretty appealing - at least at the start.
I might get flamed here in saying that St. Paul is NOT my favoured and the initiator for many an anti-LGBT positions - then, I never ever had any such issue with Jesus Christ. Amen :-)
My 2 cents, and bless you,
Axelle
"For the sheep know their master's voice!"
I spent many years in what is called a "Dark Night Of The Soul" and while St. Augustine, who coined the phrase is not one of my real favorites on spirituality, I can understand this concept fairly well. You feel completely cut off from your spiritual resources, and find yourself dissatisfied with any potential spiritual solutions during that time. My way out of that period was when I needed and accepted the Higher Power concept needed to recover from alcoholism, and I returned to a different parish of my former denomination. (U.S. Episcopalian Church) where I have since become very much in a spiritual home. I recently came out Trans to the parish where I have now been for 20 years, and have been very warmly accepted. They are having to get used to a new me, but both sides like it. My coming out letter was accepted by one member of the parish vestry (council) who told the rest of them he was glad I came out, and had not just disappeared and transitioned in another parish that is locally known for a serious GLB ministry.
Christianity, taken with a dose of skepticism for Biblical literality, and a good helping of human reason is a spiritual pathway that will make it better to live out our human lives. It is not counter Christian to know that the Bible is as full of human errors as anything else is, and that the "Church Fathers" were just as likely to make a political decision from greed as from righteousness. Keeping all of the negatives in mind, should not erode a faith, but should teach us of why it has endured wtih all its imperfections. Even the New Testament writers did not believe there would be anything left of the world ten years after they set quill to papyrus. How the heck could they see us comeing??
Welcome back.
Quote from: justmeinoz on August 28, 2011, 10:12:34 PM
Interesting post Kendra.
As a fairly relaxed Anglican (Episcopalian) I have no problem reconciling my life with Christianity. I'm glad you have found some support and reassurance in the Bible. Isaac Asimov's guides to the Bible are great for a lot of historical background that helps make sense of things too.
My wife has the 2nd volume, New Testament Isaac Asimov guide. Although I don't think he was Chrisitian, it might be worth looking at his external view of how things can be seen.
Quote
From my point of view, and I stress it is mine and without wishing to offend anyone, I really can't consider the LDS to be a branch of Christianity. There are too many differences for me. I am quite happy to consider it as a seperate indigenous American religion though.
Enjoy your new beginning.
Karen.
Many agree in such similar categorization or cult categorization
Quote from: Slanan on September 01, 2011, 12:03:39 AM
I'm personally not a huge fan of Joyce Meyer or Christian Psychology (I used to be big into both - I was a fundamentalist pentecostal). I think both are too often anti-gay (and, by extension, anti-trans).
I imagine they are anti gay and trans. I enjoy the infused almost self-help with Christ approach.
Quote
But that said, God can speak in many ways to many different people, and I won't say that there aren't good things in both. One of the confusing things about this world is that you can get a bunch of things right while getting some things wrong at the same time - a person can do both great good and great evil simultaneously. It's not quite as clear cut as I would like the world to be.
Amen there!
Quote
I'm glad you are looking back towards Christianity. I am ashamed at how the Church too often makes God's love unappealing to people by saying that God's love is conditional and that He doesn't love people who are authentic and honest. Obviously God's love is unconditional and He loves authenticity - but too often that isn't what is communicated by organized religion.
The only main conditions I see are to love god (no idol worshiping) , love others, and forgive others. Love, charity, hope, and faith.
Quote
While I would be seen as a servant of the devil by the denomination I came to Christ in (they aren't exactly welcoming of non-cisgendered people or their spouses), I recognize how much good that it did in my life. Yes, I had to unlearn some of the garbage that they added to Christ's love. But that doesn't mean everything was bad. The biggest shift in my thinking occurred when I was saved - but the shift that has taken place as I learned to relate to God based on my own mind, soul, and heart instead of just believing what the pastor said has been nearly as large in my life.
Sometimes I think Satan works best in the domain of religions. If sie can convince church leaders to refuse, discourage, and push away large amounts of people in ways that Jesus and God would not approve, then that Satan has succeeded, in a almost Job-like manner. My view is that although there are very many great church leaders, Satan is buisy trying to keep as many people as possible from being saved, through many ways, possibly including such warped exclusionary doctrines.
Quote from: Joelene9 on September 01, 2011, 01:02:02 AM
Myself as well. After roaming about the other denominations, I am coming back to the Methodist church. I just got tired with the agnosts, athiests and libertines that I was associating with. I did some research and found some changes to that denomination, including a transgendered minister.
Joelene
Nice Joelene! Glad to see that you have come back from agnosts, athiests, and libertines. I sorta was agnostic, but could never be filled or satisfied. Reasoning, questioning, and deciding not to decide for me, although slightly expanding and lead me to where I am now. It was so empty, without direction, and very meaningless.
Quote from: Axélle on September 01, 2011, 01:21:31 AM
Hm,
interesting to read how you are trying to get back to the more spiritual and less dogmatic side of Christianity.
Interesting thought. If Jesus lived today, what denomination whould he attend? I think he would would be very liberal and stay away from establishments. He hung out with the outcasts, unclean, disable, and poor. He ate with the sinners (in the eyes of the then establishment of sadducees and pharisees), publicans, and tax collectors. And treated women kindly, and forgave when others condemned them to death.
Quote
I wish you lots of success with this, yet here is my caveat:
WITH ALL THINGS RELIGIOUS AND SPIRITUAL IT SO DEPENDS WHO YOU ARE LISTEN TO AND READ!
There are SO many false prophets about, a lot of them can sound and read pretty appealing - at least at the start.
Yes thats why my material goes beyond denominations so far. For example, I bought Grudem's
Systematic Theology which has a great deal of information from only one perspective. Although I don't agree or believe everything in it, it is just one perspective. I know that I should never just read and follow that one source because it has some major flaws.
If I read the Catechism it would give me another perspective, also with many flaws.
All are interpretations, that unless I believe in human infallibility, which I don't think I ever will again.
Quote
I might get flamed here in saying that St. Paul is NOT my favoured and the initiator for many an anti-LGBT positions - then, I never ever had any such issue with Jesus Christ. Amen :-)
My 2 cents, and bless you,
Axelle
I agree Paul is very anti-LGBT at times and anti-feminist.
Though Paul seemed inspired at times like when writing Galatians, concerning faith and the law, circumcision vs uncircumsized, and especially the children of God as heirs Galatians 3:23 to 29 and fruits of the spirit Galations 5:22 to 26.
Quote from: Vicky on September 09, 2011, 12:50:47 AM
"For the sheep know their master's voice!"
I spent many years in what is called a "Dark Night Of The Soul" and while St. Augustine, who coined the phrase is not one of my real favorites on spirituality, I can understand this concept fairly well. You feel completely cut off from your spiritual resources, and find yourself dissatisfied with any potential spiritual solutions during that time. My way out of that period was when I needed and accepted the Higher Power concept needed to recover from alcoholism, and I returned to a different parish of my former denomination. (U.S. Episcopalian Church) where I have since become very much in a spiritual home. I recently came out Trans to the parish where I have now been for 20 years, and have been very warmly accepted. They are having to get used to a new me, but both sides like it. My coming out letter was accepted by one member of the parish vestry (council) who told the rest of them he was glad I came out, and had not just disappeared and transitioned in another parish that is locally known for a serious GLB ministry.
Christianity, taken with a dose of skepticism for Biblical literality, and a good helping of human reason is a spiritual pathway that will make it better to live out our human lives. It is not counter Christian to know that the Bible is as full of human errors as anything else is, and that the "Church Fathers" were just as likely to make a political decision from greed as from righteousness. Keeping all of the negatives in mind, should not erode a faith, but should teach us of why it has endured wtih all its imperfections. Even the New Testament writers did not believe there would be anything left of the world ten years after they set quill to papyrus. How the heck could they see us comeing??
Welcome back.
Well said! Thanks for the welcome. I am happy for your acceptance in your parish.
Love ya all and thanks for the welcomes!
Kendall
Kendra,
I'm glad that you are trying to get back to Christianity.
I hope all goes well with your quest.
Take care.
Del