I dont understand why people who have been diagnosed with transsexualism through the SOC use the word transgender. Is it because of shame? Is preference a valid reason?
For those of you who prefer transgender, do you have a hard time accepting your diagnosis and the SOC? Does transgender have less shame attached to it for you?
I just dont get it, I'm sorry. It makes me feel like the condition I was diagnosed with is being erased, which honestly makes me angry.
Honey, I also do it a times, when a 6th sense tells me the folks I speak to can ONLY take so much. Some just get stumped by any word combination that contains the word sex.
I actually dislike 'Transgender' , dislike it for me, I feel it's NOT appropriate --- but at times it seems appropriate to the situation.
Axelle
I don't get your problem with the word. I proudly wear both labels.
It depends where you are in the world. In Britain the diagnosis is "transgender", and "transsexual" just sounds like something sexual that I don't want hanging off me as a label implying I'm this for reasons of sexual feelings (regardless of me being pre-op and wanting to be post-op - I don't like the word). Emotional associations with terms are necessarily very subjective - mine and yours included :).
And given that different people are inevitably going to use these terms in different ways from what you would prefer or be comfortable with, there's a whole mountain/Mohammed factor here - so if you can let yourself feel more okay about it, you'll be happier.
Maybe wrong but afaik the diagnosis technically is the one in DSM-IV-TR. Says something like "Gender Identity Disorder in Adults" and of course the child equivalent. Think that's the medical/legal expression.
Maybe just me but I much prefer the word Transgender whatever it's origins. It's more actual, more inclusive and has far less baggage with it. Even Google search prefers it, it will blank results if one tries to type Transexual. Everything moves on in this world, hopefully one day there will be no need for any word at all as we'll just be "people" like everyone else.
Quote from: mimpi on September 10, 2011, 07:10:18 AM
Maybe wrong but afaik the diagnosis technically is the one in DSM-IV-TR. Says something like "Gender Identity Disorder in Adults" and of course the child equivalent. Think that's the medical/legal expression.
some of us were diagnosed and in treatment prior to the DSM IV being published. My letters for surgery specifically reference having been seen in the counseling environment for a transsexual condition circa ~1989.
QuoteMaybe just me but I much prefer the word Transgender whatever it's origins. It's more actual, more inclusive and has far less baggage with it. Even Google search prefers it, it will blank results if one tries to type Transexual. Everything moves on in this world, hopefully one day there will be no need for any word at all as we'll just be "people" like everyone else.
it may help to spell the condition correctly...it is 'transsexual' not 'transexual' As to 'transgender' being more inclusive, I really don't care to be under that umbrella, was opposed to that umbrella when it first was gaining traction circa 1990-1991. I don't wear my prior medical condition as a label...I had a transsexual medical condition. Through medical intervention, that condition was cured many years ago. I never was and never will be a 'transgender' anything...
Quote from: mimpi on September 10, 2011, 07:10:18 AM
Even Google search prefers it, it will blank results if one tries to type Transexual.
Well technically that's because you're spelling it wrong. If you type transsexual you'll get plenty of results.
As for the word itself, I don't care much either way. I pick the word depending on my audience because I know the uneducated will get the wrong impression due to the presence of "sex" in the spelling. While I know transsexual is the appropriate word, my audience may not and I don't always have time to explain (nor do I always care to).
the way some claim to be so opposed to a term that uses 'sex' in its language, it begs the question of what they would have tried to construct if they had an intersex diagnosis...I don't see anyone clamoring to change THAT term to intergender or some other non-sexual language.
I think the word would have a very different impact (it certainly would on me) if it were "transsex" instead of "transsexual". Sexual, sexual, sexual. Don't think of elephants.
so long as I get my HRT and am ok'd for surgery you can call me a mammblefooze for all I care
I really dislike labels and I like having to be politically correct even less.
When describing myself to people who've known me for a long time and haven't seen me in transition, I use the word "transgender" to describe my condition at birth. When that 3-letter word s-e-x goes into anything, it causes the average person to think of an activity, rather than an identity. So, I don't often use the word transsexual, as I fear it may create the wrong mental image.
As far as "what am I now?", I use the words Female and Woman to describe myself. I am no longer trans-anything, as trans means across and I've already crossed. :D
Even though I was at one time a "trans-something", I find that nit-picking label definitions to be an activity that just doesn't seem to have a productive end.
i have ussed both.
Transsexual when dealing with those who are educated.
Transgender when I am dealing with uneducated folks.
I have had a couple of folks completely not understand either word and had to fall back on the old saw...woman in a mans body.
Whatever gets me there....
I tend to use transgender over transsexual because I don't share the same beliefs that transsexuals often have. I'm also a bit feminine which some transsexuals have written off as not being trans enough.
Valerie and Cynthia....ditto to both. I do not like being under the transgender umbrella, but it is a term that more people are familiar with. Unfortunately, the term, transsexual, is seen as a perversion. And, not looking to pass judgement, it';s just really hard for me to understand folks that only want to go so far in transition and that's it. I have known since i was 4 years old that I am a man. Have gone through alot of hardship and loss to get there. So, for myself, transsexual is a better term. It does tell the educated, this is a medical---biological --birth defect. Again, not passing judgement on anyone. We all transition differently, and, this is my way.
I don't see my being trans as a birth defect, or as simply a medical condition. That implies that being trans is wrong, or that we are some how broken. I feel like that way of thinking is cissexist and can be harmful. I can understand if a person thinks that for themseles but when applying it to everybody else...not cool.
Let's not get pedantic over the spelling of transexual/transsexual, both are accepted in common usage. Really pointless to get in a "less/fewer" discourse on such a matter.
For the life of me just can't understand all the ill feeling around inclusivity. Does history not warn us sufficiently where separatism can lead society? Tomorrow's date case in point...
Thank God the world has moved on from GID shrinks projecting their patriarchal sexist prejudices on their clients. Not all of us MTFs wish to conform to their '50s Barbie doll, straight suburban housewife fantasies.
And by the way there's no need for some to be supercilious, patronising, exclusivist and rude either.
I don't think it's too pedantic to compare transexual and transsexual spellings :) - all that's being pointed out is that in terms of google hits:
transexual - 22,800,000
transgender - 29,900,000
transsexual - 38,700,000
...not that this is exactly "hard science", all it shows is that clearly the double-s version of the word is in way higher usage on the internet than either the single-s or transgender - and that's not too surprising, given than there's a higher proportion of US-based web pages than others, and transsexual is a predominantly US-based term.
Please let's not get too personal in this discussion, I don't think anyone is attacking anyone, and let's keep it that way.
I don't have a problem with either word. I mostly use transsexual.
When I say birth defect....I look at my condition as being the same as a child born with a cleft palate or club feet. A condition that needs surgery to be complete. Not something that is wrong. Just something that needs to be corrected medically.
When I was at the point where most kids start to walk, I could not walk. My feet were deformed. Took many years to correct that. I look at my being a transman the same way. The way i was born.....and being patient in correcting it. So, yes, I do see this as another birth defect. The brain got one message...the body got another. And, not looking to cause arguements. This does'nt make me more male than anyone else. Just my experience.
I'm not one to say because I don't really use either term to describe myself, or I do so as infrequently as I can get away with anyway. If people want to call me TS or TG or something else, if it's with good intentions, I'm like, "whatever" Maybe I'm part of the problem, if it's a problem.
Quote from: Padma on September 10, 2011, 07:04:08 AM
It depends where you are in the world. In Britain the diagnosis is "transgender"...
Actually..
/me reads from GIC letter:
From our findings during the assessment we feel there is evidence to confirm he has a diagnosis of Primary Transsexualism and Gender DysphoriaUnless it's a regional thing, I'd be interested to know where you got that from. Although I do agree that the -sexual part makes it sound like some kind of fetish or something, and no doubt is why cis-folk get confused about it all :icon_neutral:
To answer the question: I say transsexual because it more accurately describes my physical state. I also use transgender because I'm genderqueer :P
I used to be bothered by terminology also, even had a similar discussion on another forum. The problem is that the world is still largely uninformed about any transgendered people, and so are many of us, so there is this large amount of varying vocabulary. I think that most branches of ->-bleeped-<- are still being perfected as far as terminology goes, and the best thing we can do is stay informed about any changes.
On top of the aforementioned regional and continental differences, like it or not, many plain (that's right, plain, not not normal) folks associate "transsexual" with some kind of deviant behavior due to the "sexual" part, which I understand. I say understand, not approve or endorse. So like others, I adjust my description based on the level of understanding being shown to me by whomever I'm speaking with. If I see that they understand nothing trans, I like to use transgendered, which I feel has a softer sound to it. I use transsexual around friends and family, because they know the definition. However, I am a transgendered person, and transsexual person, so why should it matter? If one already is familiar with the definitions, then one wouldn't need to ask anyway. It's not like the public at large will be less confused by us if we all stick to the same lingo, right?
Also I don't feel like I have a mental condition that needs to be proclaimed to those not a part of my life, and I only embrace the term "GID" because I had to to get my hormones. Bottom line, our culture is barely coming into it's own, thanks to the Internet, (and Chaz Bono!) and I believe that we'll see a more uniform set of vocabulary as time goes on.
I live in the southwest, in the USA. I'm white and live about 100 miles from Mexico. There are lots of people here who do not speak English. I understand a little Spanish, and many Mexicans understand a bit of English. My point is that we communicate, it may not be pretty, but as long as we understand each other, then what's the problem?
I use transgender with most people, even though I actually prefer the term transsexual. Sadly, transsexual brings up images of Jerry Springer in people's minds. Transgender, on the other hand, doesn't come with all that baggage.
I have been trying to think over the words I use. I don't use either word, nor do I say the 'boy in a girls body' thing.
Transsexual, transgender, I don't know what the fck to say, don't care either. Right now I'm just confused, transsexual means post op, transgender means non op or crossdresser? No wait, transsexual implies that it's a sexual orientation and transgender is the correct term? I think I'll just say trans when referring to myself.
I use transgender more often, and transsexual less often. I currently use "transgender" as an umbrella term, and transsexual as a specific term. Generally when I feel like I'm talking with someone who isn't familiar with trans related stuff I tend to use transgender, and when I'm talking with people who are more familiar with LGBT issues I'll use transsexual. Being transsexual isn't shameful for me, but it's less convenient to have a conversation get hung up because someone takes that word the wrong way.
Also, when I am traveling out of the states I usually just tell people I'm "American" unless I know they would understand what I mean if I said I was a "Washingtonian". The umbrella term is also good enough for me in situations where I don't want to have to describe them that I'm two states above California, and right below Canada. "No, that's not on the Atlantic Ocean... on the Pacific. No, Washington D.C. is on the East Coast and is totally different... etc."
Sometimes it's just easier to be an American - and I feel like sometimes it's easier to just be transgender. But I'm not ashamed of either. :)
Transgender is an umbrella term which people fall under from cross dressers all the way over to people who are transitioning (transsexuals) Your goal does not necesarilly mean you are aiming for a goal of GRS but that you are making changes.
More info is available from the AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.pdf (http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.pdf)
Felecia
Quote from: Nygeel on September 10, 2011, 10:37:18 AM
I don't see my being trans as a birth defect, or as simply a medical condition. That implies that being trans is wrong, or that we are some how broken. I feel like that way of thinking is cissexist and can be harmful. I can understand if a person thinks that for themseles but when applying it to everybody else...not cool.
^^^^^
This!
I don't have a birth defect... and for me, this is no more a "medical condition" than "male" or "female" is for everyone else.
As for what word I use. I actually prefer "trans" instead of the full term (of either transsexual or transgender). If I have to say the full term, I use "transgender" (because "sexual" simply gives the wrong message).
I guess because I'm actually "ok" with being "trans", I don't feel as if I fit into the "transsexual" category. I don't aboslutely hate my male "bits" and don't think I have always been a girl in the "wrong body". So, I just don't fit the narrative that everyone seems to have. Yea, I have a lot of "feminine brain" I guess... but it doesn't seem as extreme as others seem to have?
Also, I haven't seen a therapist or anything like that. I basically just went to the doctor and said "pills please", they asked me a couple questions and I was on my way :P
So, for those 2 reasons, I'm not too sure that I actually am "transsexual" (even though I am transitioning)... so, transgender is a nice term to catch me (I'm in there somewhere).
I think it's interesting that my paperwork at my Endo, has transsexual listed as a sexual dysfunction. There is no transgender though. But since my insurance covers my hormones I'm not complaining.
I have to admit I'm one that doesn't really care. Sorry if that upsets. My GP referred me on to 'the team' to investigate transgender issues.
If you want to go nuts.
Your rhinosinusitis isn't caused by an an allergy so you have eosinophilic mucal rhinosinusitis. There we have cured you. But Dr I have really bad hay fever. Of course you have, that's what causes it. Ignorant patients can't they understand simple language.
Sorry I was not trying to be sarcastic or rude.
I really think we should all take five steps back in language debates about gender and sexuality. I don't think they are ever very productive. They get people upset for reasons others cannot understand.
And as long as our treatment people know what to do, so what? :laugh:
Cindy
Call yourself transsexual, transgender or whatever you personally identify as and feel comfortable with... I'm okay with it... But if you identify as a spider monkey or orangutan, I just may want to hang out with you :laugh:
Quote from: V M on September 12, 2011, 04:27:39 AM
Call yourself transsexual, transgender or whatever you personally identify as and feel comfortable with... I'm okay with it... But if you identify as a spider monkey or orangutan, I just may want to hang out with you :laugh:
And wash your back if you wash mine
I'm now closing this topic, at Valerie's request.