Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Discuss.

 I've never seen a guy pretty himself out of a speeding ticket. But I have. I was in girl mode, pre-HRT driving to see my Councillor and didn't see the speed limit sign that dropped by 10mph. The cop pulled me over for speeding and gave me a verbal warning. Probably figured I had bigger issues going on since I was in a broomstick skirt and blouse with full make-up on. At least he called me Ma'am :P

As far as I'm concerned, each have their pro's and cons. if your transitioning because you think the grass is greener on the other side then you need to just not do it. All your doing is swapping one set of problems with another. I knew this going in. It's just swapping them for problems I can deal with better. I do admit that females have a greater amount of freedom as far as emotional expression and appearance though.

I've seen this sort of topic before, and it tends to devolve into arguments and hurt feelings. I'm not saying that it WILL happen, but don't be surprised if it does. Frankly, I don't see much point to these types of discussions.

For your standard cis person, I would imagine being male is easier overall.

Just from my experience from observing others and how people are treated, being a cis effeminate male is far harder than being a cis masculine female.

Would trans people have it equally? I don't know any FTMs well enough to say so I have no clue.

I think that as long as we live in Northern America, Western Europe, and Northern Europe, it doesn't matter whether we are men or women. At least, countries in those areas respect gender equalities. This is only from my perspective. I'm Vietnamese who grew up in Vietnam, so my view of freedom of gender expression may not be the same as yours.

However, being transgendered is perhaps another story.

silly question

It is easier for a man to be a man and easier for a woman to be a woman.

Quote from: mynhii on September 11, 2011, 09:11:31 PM
I think that as long as we live in Northern America, Western Europe, and Northern Europe, it doesn't matter whether we are men or women. At least, countries in those areas respect gender equalities. This is only from my perspective. I'm Vietnamese who grew up in Vietnam, so my view of freedom of gender expression may not be the same as yours.

However, being transgendered is perhaps another story.

It matters quite a lot if you fall outside of what is considered normal. I wanted to play with dolls and ponies when I was young, which was strongly discouraged. Most children are natural tyrants and will police gender at a very early age, and the adults are pleased at this because they don't have to get their hands dirty.

Quote from: mynhii on September 11, 2011, 09:11:31 PM
I think that as long as we live in Northern America, Western Europe, and Northern Europe, it doesn't matter whether we are men or women. At least, countries in those areas respect gender equalities.

I think things have probably improved in the U.S. in the last couple of decades, but when I was living as a woman--particularly when I was deep in my "girl" phase in the 1980s--I felt distinctly unequal. I have had a number of unpleasant experiences that emphasized my inferior status. And I had the advantage of being white.

In the 1990s and beyond, I was too obviously "gender variant" to be able to comment from personal experience. Are things mostly equal in the U.S. now?

It's easier being a woman who lives as a woman than it is to be a woman forced to live as a man.

That's the only experience from which I can speak.

Quote from: Zoë Natasha on September 11, 2011, 10:00:19 PM
It's easier being a woman who lives as a woman than it is to be a woman forced to live as a man.

That's the only experience from which I can speak.

But what if you are a woman who is very tall?   Let's say taller than 99% of men met with in daily life?    What do you do then?

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 11, 2011, 10:04:33 PM
But what if you are a woman who is very tall?   Let's say taller than 99% of men met with in daily life?    What do you do then?

I'm 6'2" in my favorite shoes and I rock that height bold and fierce. ;)  Can't say anything about being much much taller.

Quote from: Arch on September 11, 2011, 09:25:08 PM
I think things have probably improved in the U.S. in the last couple of decades, but when I was living as a woman--particularly when I was deep in my "girl" phase in the 1980s--I felt distinctly unequal. I have had a number of unpleasant experiences that emphasized my inferior status. And I had the advantage of being white.

In the 1990s and beyond, I was too obviously "gender variant" to be able to comment from personal experience. Are things mostly equal in the U.S. now?

You are white, so perhaps you have known what freedom of expression (not just gender) is since you were born. I was born to think certain acts are normal while others aren't. My culture is quite an suppressing culture. Since I came to the US, I have known what freedom of expression is, but that is my level of freedom of expression. Your desire of gender-variant equality is logically higher than mine because you didn't live in an suppressing society like I did.

I rarely hear Vietnamese immigrants complain about freedom in the US. Again, nevertheless, that is about freedom of expression in general, not gender specifically. Gender-related issue is still a taboo subject in many Vietnamese families. I can say that it is easier to be a Vietnamese woman in American society because many men are still under the impression that women are inferior.

Goodbye, Mama and Papa
Goodbye, Jack and Jill
The grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter
either side of the hill.

It is easier being me than being someone else.

That is all.

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 11, 2011, 10:04:33 PM
But what if you are a woman who is very tall?   Let's say taller than 99% of men met with in daily life?    What do you do then?

You walk with your back straight and your chin up and confidence in every step just like you own the world. I'm 6'1" in socks and it's AWESOME. ;)

Actually I'm kind of sad that I lost some height on HRT. I was exactly 6' and 3/4 of an inch, and now I'm 6' and 1/2 an inch. I still round up but I mourn that quarter inch.

As to you primary topic... discussing gender inequality on a trans forum sounds about as much fun as drilling another hole in my skull. Sorry, but I pass.

Quote from: mynhii on September 11, 2011, 11:19:11 PM
You are white, so perhaps you have known what freedom of expression (not just gender) is since you were born. I was born to think certain acts are normal while others aren't. My culture is quite an suppressing culture. Since I came to the US, I have known what freedom of expression is, but that is my level of freedom of expression. Your desire of gender-variant equality is logically higher than mine because you didn't live in an suppressing society like I did.

I have no doubt that your culture is more oppressive than mainstream U.S. culture--I've worked with naturalized Americans who came from Vietnam, and I've had quite a few students, both male and female, from Vietnamese-American families. But I was born before the second-wave feminist movement, my own family was somewhat conservative, and I have probably had a little more experience with cultures in non-American countries than most (white) Americans have had. All of these conditions and experiences have only increased my appreciation for the freedoms and advantages that I do have.

By the way, people from all cultures are trained to think that "certain acts are normal while others aren't." That practice seems to be a staple of human societies. :(

Quote from: Arch on September 12, 2011, 12:39:12 AM
By the way, people from all cultures are trained to think that "certain acts are normal while others aren't." That practice seems to be a staple of human societies. :(

That couldn't be more right. Still, I think that certain cultures appreciate "to live and let live" motto even though people living in them are conservative. I dare to say this, and I'm not afraid to be labelled a racist: Western culture is always more tolerant than Asian and Arabic cultures.

All cultures change, but Western cultures change more readily than others. Customs may be kept, but people's attitude change.

I can't deny that the fact that American republican white people are ultra conservative and scary people. As I can see in general, American people say what they feel. They don't stab people behind their back. At least, I don't know anyone who does so.

In my extended family, being out of gender norm is silently criticized. It puts pressure on the family. I can't imagine how my parents will feel when I tell them I only feel partially male, but I'm quite sure I will waste my breath trying to convince them that my female side has a significant impact on who I am.

i would agree with the person who said earlier that in usa, gender equality exists. if you live in a country like india, that's another story. here, i believe being a woman/man is only as hard as you make it.

Quote from: mynhii on September 12, 2011, 01:01:12 AM
In my extended family, being out of gender norm is silently criticized. It puts pressure on the family. I can't imagine how my parents will feel when I tell them I only feel partially male, but I'm quite sure I will waste my breath trying to convince them that my female side has a significant impact on who I am.

Sounds daunting, but we'll support you all we can.

Not really sure that gender equality exists anywhere to be perfectly honest. Even in developed countries there remains a 'glass ceiling' and all the misogyny and sexism anyone can ask for. Whatever one may think of the old 'Eastern Block' they did make some efforts to improve matters on an official level although societies are hard to change.

As the Vietnamese poster rightly states it can be hard in some countries, even if women do get into influential positions they are still expected to be submissive, feminine in behaviour and dress and often bow in greeting. Just the slightest deviance from dress code, hair style or even the way a woman walks or sits can raise suspicions. I well remember my ex mother in law getting furious with her daughter for not sitting sufficiently 'primly' in an office at the ministry of religious affairs. This was in a Muslim SE Asian country where norms are even stricter perhaps than Vietnam.

It's hard to be either a man or a woman where gender codes are strictly enforced, have met many Gay and Lesbian Muslims from across the world, have been married into a couple of their societies as well and there are heart rending stories out there.

I kinda thought the Vietmanese people would be somewhat like the Thai people in regards to the "live and let live" attitudes. Are Vietmanese mostly Budhist, like the Thai?

Quote from: mimpi on September 13, 2011, 09:25:51 AM
Not really sure that gender equality exists anywhere to be perfectly honest. Even in developed countries there remains a 'glass ceiling' and all the misogyny and sexism anyone can ask for. Whatever one may think of the old 'Eastern Block' they did make some efforts to improve matters on an official level although societies are hard to change.

I think a lot of "glass ceilings" and missed oportunities in the US have more to do with non-gender issues. CEOs work ungodly hours and often do so decades before getting the CEO titile. They don't take a few years off to raise kids or miss work when their kids are sick. They are machines that pay a terrible price for their success and I wouldn't take take their path for anything. Women who don't have kids do just as good or better than men, in most businesses.


I see more and more jobs that favor women including very good sales jobs. It's hard to even get a interview as a pharma rep if you aren't an attractive female.

They are machines indeed and according to recent research a good number are psychopaths with it!

What are little boys made of?
What are little boys made of?
Frogs and snails
And puppy-dogs' tails,
That's what little boys are made of.

What are little girls made of?
What are little girls made of?
Sugar and spice
And everything nice,
That's what little girls are made of.

Take your pick :)

Personally, I don't believe that I'm trading one problem for another. Truly, what could be wrong with being pretty? When you're a masculine looking man (opposite to the androgynous model males of today's world), people expect you to work in a factory, no one ever cuddles with you, no one ever likes you when you act like your true female form. However, looking and being female allows people to see you more clearly for who you are, they expect female behaviors and a soft personality, and don't say "Oh, just work at a factory like the manly man you are." when you say "I'm having trouble finding a job." I mean what's one negative of being female? Being raped? That's already happened to me as a male. Not being a CEO of a corporate business? Whoop-dee, I own my own companies and corporations. Even half the politicians and doctors out there are female.

But the negatives of being a burly, masculine man? Not even the business world wants me in it. Things may be truly beneficial for the males who look like Justin Bieber or Bradley Cooper, but if you look like an ogre or a viking, society expects you to be at the bottom of the barrel and will not let you do much of anything beyond manual labor jobs. My own family even treated me that way the most. No one pities you, no one sees you as the scared, helpless, needy, pretty girl that you are, they see you as someone who doesn't even deserve hormone therapy because you're "made how God intended." No one finds you pretty, no one finds you sexy, no one finds you cute. No one even wants to be friends with such a walking contradiction. It creeps people out, especially the people who are of my young age who have the same ability to process a personality and a soul different from a person's appearance as about as much as a rock does.

I would say the same about a woman who could not at all pass as a man if she wanted to. Say you're an heavy-set, curvy woman with breasts the size of watermelons and a butt as large as Venus. You're stuck in female form, and all the negatives that go with being overweight and "ugly and/or female" to many people as well. You won't become a star actress or a breakthrough politician like attractive Sarah Palin. You'll be stuck at the cashier at Wal-mart. I personally believe the benefits of Transitioning heighten triple-fold the more attractive a person is in the opposite sex. For me, I know I'd be 10x better looking, more natural, and prettier as a girl when the overall surgical and hormonal process is complete, and it's one of the many reasons I think transitioning would improve my social and business life. I mean, I have a horrible life right now, it can't get worse. At the very least, I'll be happier on the inside with a transition, and that alone is worth the entire journey.

In North America, you hear a lot about gender equality, Feminism is rampant and excessive. There will always be "good ole' boys clubs", the stereotypical southern male opinion. In the U.S., white hetero males still have the advantage, though reluctantly lessening. Women and minority ethnic groups have so many legal options that discrimination is almost a non-issue. Even without that, power in numbers works surprisingly well. The more concerning issue is of course those that fall outside of the social norms. Unlike having purple skin, in most cases we have the ability to hide our abnormal lifestyles. This means that you don't have as much support from like-minded individuals, who are likely afraid of being discovered and discriminated themselves. In this regard, North America is far less accepting than either Europe, or the Far East.

Quote from: Zoë Natasha on September 11, 2011, 10:00:19 PM
It's easier being a woman who lives as a woman than it is to be a woman forced to live as a man.

That's the only experience from which I can speak.

This +1.

The hardest part about being a me is I have to do it as a man every time I leave the house.

Even half the politicians and doctors out there are female

Say what?
US House of Representatives = 435 members, 75 are female, so about 17%
US Senate = 100 members, 17 are female, so exactly 17%.  California, Washington, Maine, and New Hampshire are the only states where both senators are female.

So, 17% is now half?

In medicine there are still more men than women, but the numbers are approaching half.  Then again medicine was the first real profession to open to women, in part because it conforms so closely to the 'nurturing/care giving' roles that the stereotype holds out.  The fields that are dominated by women are dead on the stereotype, being pediatrics and OB/GYN.

Personally I'd say it's six of one, and half a dozen of the other....

Except that guys have a better chance of getting away with not giving a s*** about what others think.

Karen.