Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I pray every night before I go to bed and I don't know whether I should pray as a girl or a boy. I hate praying as a girl but I feel guilty about praying as a boy because I think I'm an abomination to god and that I'm going to hell and that's why he never listens to me or answers my prayers. Maybe I should just accept I'm going to hell and become an atheist. Can someone help me? Is there anything in the bible that says being Trans is a sin or not? I can't go through this life without god.

God cares only about your love. You are not an abomination, you and the rest of us are but the result of a biological mishap, nothing to do with God. God love us in any form, male, female, neutral, etc.

I pray to God every morning and night. At nights I say: "Thank you God for this warm and dry beed, and for the food in my tommy," "God today I did this and that that was good and I hope you are pleased" "God i did this and tha that was no good, pleaase forgive my weakness," "I love you God, good night."
In the morning is all about giving me wisdom to do the right thing, coutraage to ovecome my shortcomings, and protecting my children.

I hope you find soem help in my words

Luv,

Jen61

I am an atheist but I haven't handled that w/ my parents either and would rather not, they are very conservative christians. I can think of plenty of references in the bible to proper gender roles/behaviors but nothing about trans.  My planned "argument" is only me and "god" can see my soul, how do they know I don't have a female soul? Since you believe that stuff think on that argument.

That helps a lot but wouldn't he see me as a girl?

Quote from: Kentrie on September 14, 2011, 12:29:15 AM
That helps a lot but wouldn't he see me as a girl?

There are as many gods as there are religious people, but wouldn't a supernatural being be capable of seeing who your spirit really is and not be easily fooled by a physical body?

I think God sees you as you. Really though I think God sees past all gender. Those are just my opinions though. But really... I'm not sure how to pray as a girl or as a boy? My prayer has no gender when I pray.

As far as transgender in the bible not that I know of. I mean I've actually never read or heard of a verse that even condemns lesbians and even the verse that supposedly condemns gay men sounds sort of open to interpretation. Again just my opinion everyone, feel free to think or say otherwise :)

Don't worry about the trees Kentrie, God will look after tem.  Just concentrate on the Forest.

Karen.

Thanks.

Quote from: Kentrie on September 13, 2011, 08:57:58 PM
I pray every night before I go to bed and I don't know whether I should pray as a girl or a boy. I hate praying as a girl but I feel guilty about praying as a boy because I think I'm an abomination to god and that I'm going to hell and that's why he never listens to me or answers my prayers. Maybe I should just accept I'm going to hell and become an atheist. Can someone help me? Is there anything in the bible that says being Trans is a sin or not? I can't go through this life without god.

I used to be a leader in a church - I taught people about prayer.  So I'll write from my background.

What I said then is what I'd say now: The most important thing to remember about prayer is that spending time with God is the important part.  What you say is not nearly as important.  You don't have to be "right", God won't hold it against you if you aren't.  It's not like He needs to learn from us, after all, or lacks knowledge or that we can hide something from Him!  When we spend time with God, our thoughts and words and prayers will change, they'll become conformed to the truth and His love, because we are changed by being in His presence.  And that's the main point of prayer - to be in the presence of God so that we are changed.

He wants us to be honest.  If we're upset (even at Him), if we're confused, if we're sad, if we're hurt, that's fine.  Tell Him.  He already knows your heart after all, no reason to hide it!  It's wonderfully freeing to not have to get prayer "right".  God will honor and bless you for coming to Him without pretense and without trying to hide things.  What you wrote in this thread is probably a great thing to take to Him in prayer and ask for His help figuring things out.  And of course it's always good to listen, too - He might have things to say too!

I can assure you He is listening to your prayers.  As for the answers, I can't say anything there about your situation, just generalities - sometimes the answers take a long time, sometimes we've got lessons to learn first, sometimes He answers in a way that we don't recognize, sometimes the answer isn't what we want, sometimes there's something involved we can't see, sometimes I just don't know why the answer doesn't seem to come.  But I do believe God hears them.

I'd agree with the other poster who said God is not a man or a woman.  He's both and neither.  And He looks at things as they are, not as we see them - He looks at the heart, not the body.  And I'd also agree that you are not living in sin for just wanting to be whoever you are.  God loves you as you are, in heart.

Thanks! How do you know when he is talking to you? Like, how does he talk to you?

Quote from: Kentrie on September 17, 2011, 06:42:58 PM
Thanks! How do you know when he is talking to you? Like, how does he talk to you?

For me, that's a short question that is very difficult.  I don't think I have it all figured out yet.  I've mistaken my "voice" for His, for instance.  All I can do is to ask him to bring things to mind and help me to see what is Him and what is just a figment of my overactive imagination.  I wish I had a better answer for you than that.

So, if I ask him to do the same and he ignores me then I'll know whether he hates me or not?

Quote from: heatherrose on September 18, 2011, 03:16:28 PM

We, ALL OF US, are a portion/piece of The Creator.
(God) can not and does not hate any portion of (his/herself)
(God) does not hate you, Doll.

This is the whole idea of God being love. Love your neighber as yourself. God keeps is own commandments.
@kentrie, who told you that you were an abomination unto God? The enemies of God work hard at turning people away from God. Learn from who you are about God. How would you like it if no one knew you because you look the opposite of who you are? Wait we know how it feels.

Quote from: Just Me94 on September 13, 2011, 08:57:58 PM
I pray every night before I go to bed and I don't know whether I should pray as a girl or a boy. I hate praying as a girl but I feel guilty about praying as a boy because I think I'm an abomination to god and that I'm going to hell and that's why he never listens to me or answers my prayers. Maybe I should just accept I'm going to hell and become an atheist. Can someone help me? Is there anything in the bible that says being Trans is a sin or not? I can't go through this life without god.

The only thing in the bible (that suggests such) is three things...
the story of onan (genesis 38:9)which controversially may suggest that the seed should not be spilt...(thus no male on male sex) but that doesn't apply to a female to male

then there is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Where it talks of the "men" surrounding the house of Lot and wanting forced sex... so it is possible it is only about rape... and then the nations had already been decided to be destroyed by god that is why he sent the angels and as such the initial reason for destroying them remains that they were simply blasphamos...no explanation... (being rapers is the most likely reason)

then in the letters of paul paul says that a man should not bed with a man and a woman should not bed with a woman...
the interesting thing is that none of the above say anything wrong with being gay or transexual it only at the most suggests that the having sex if you are gay is wrong...
interesting isn't it  ;D

Doesn't really say anything about being transgendered...if you actually consider yourself to be a man.... then You can't be said to be doing anything wrong if you sleep with a woman... unless you really aren't... and that is a deep...deep ...->-bleeped-<-ing question that has an answer that only god knows... and so long as he keeps it to himself...being in the dark and all... anything goes...(i.e it is not your fault if you (sin) bump into a wall. in regards to being transgendered...IMO)

Regardless i believe that God will listen to your prayer, because he is looking to help people even if they actually happen to be sinning now...
Most people don't see their prayers answered or recognize that they are... so if it seems like they aren't being answered that is meaningless.
Surely God answers in ways we may not notice.
And most likely God is a good guy, and if you pray for something stupid, or something that really would not be as good for you as you think. He won't curse you by giving in to that prayer.
So it is possible that the reason your prayers are not being answered is because your asking for the wrong things.

Personally when I pray to god I end my prayers with "...be it good, be it the right thing, do as is best, may the best thing be done." or something like that...

Ditto to all that Heatherrose has written.  When I pray, I also do not pray as male or female.  I show reverence by getting on my knees and then....I just talk to God as I would a great and wonderful friend.  As the Bible says,  In Philippians 4: 6-7
"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be known to God:  and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."
For me, that means, to always be thankful to God for everything He has given me.....open my heart to Him, making all my requests known, and His peace will comfort me as I wait for His answer.  God does not always answer us right a way.  He answers in His good timing.  Sometimes we have to go through stuff to grow us up and get us to a point where we can actually handle what we are asking for. 
God does not hate you or think you are an abomination.  He tells us to 'come boldly before His throne.'
God loves you!!  Keep praying.  'There is power in prayer.'

1 Samuel 16:7
New International Version (NIV)


7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Quote from: Abstract on October 02, 2011, 01:48:13 AM
The only thing in the bible (that suggests such) is three things...
the story of onan (genesis 38:9)which controversially may suggest that the seed should not be spilt...(thus no male on male sex) but that doesn't apply to a female to male

Or it might suggest that Onan was disobeying his father and humiliating Tamar, and disrespecting his dead brother, by going against the customs of the time.  This doesn't apply to male homosexual sex, nor does it apply (as is too often misinterpreted) to male masturbation.  The sin was denying Tamar pregnancy, not masturbation or otherwise "spilling seed".

Quote from: Abstract on October 02, 2011, 01:48:13 AM
then there is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Where it talks of the "men" surrounding the house of Lot and wanting forced sex... so it is possible it is only about rape... and then the nations had already been decided to be destroyed by god that is why he sent the angels and as such the initial reason for destroying them remains that they were simply blasphamos...no explanation... (being rapers is the most likely reason)

The story could also be used to justify handing over your virgin daughters (yes, plural) to be raped - Gen 19:8 ("Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.").  But that wouldn't probably be accurate either.  But regardless, Gen 19:13 says that the Lord sent the men to Sodom to destroy it - that was before this attempted rape occurred.  Being that He hasn't instantly and recently destroyed any cities with large homosexual populations, I suspect that this was not their sin, but rather it was something unique and particularly ugly.

Quote from: Abstract on October 02, 2011, 01:48:13 AM
then in the letters of paul paul says that a man should not bed with a man and a woman should not bed with a woman...
the interesting thing is that none of the above say anything wrong with being gay or transexual it only at the most suggests that the having sex if you are gay is wrong...
interesting isn't it  ;D

I agree that nothing is said directly about transexuality, although it does say a bit about eunuchs - not all good in the early part of the Bible (later things were intentionally reversed, hence a Eunuch being entrusted with carrying the gospel to Ethiopia).  Fortunately that commandment, for Christians, is of the same category of not eating shellfish - no longer applicable.  Gal 3:28 also might apply: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

But I also think that the translations of Paul's are very questionable when translated to imply homosexuality (something that they were not translated to mean until fairly recently, either).

That said, there are clear instructions from Paul for slaves to obey their masters - EVEN if the master is "harsh" in contrast to "kind and reasonable" (does this imply that a slave who ran away from abuse and sought freedom is sinning?  I wouldn't even think of saying that) - 1 Pet 2:18.  Jesus himself said divorce was wrong (while saying NOTHING about homosexuality or anything that could even be considered tangentially related to homosexuality) - Luke 16:18.  Women are supposed to cover their heads while praying while men are forbidden from doing so (1 Cor 11:4-6).  Oh, and women aren't to wear braided hair, gold, pearls, or expensive clothes (1 Tim 2:9).

Different Christians of course have different views about these.  My personal belief is that some of the specifics of how we should act in society can and do change over time (for instance, women can and should have independent legal existence from men), but that the main threads remain the same throughout time (we shouldn't judge, we should serve God, we should love each other, etc).  Certainly something that is only mentioned a few times in the Bible, and has a questionable translation on top of that (the New Testament verses on "homosexuals") should not be used to form a doctrine - particularly if you've found reasons that slaves should be free to run away from abuse, women should be able to pray without wearing a head covering, that divorce might be acceptable for instance in cases of abuse, etc.  These other things are talked about much clearer and have much less uncertainty around their translation - yet most churches recognize that things aren't quite as black and white as a literal reading might imply (yes, I know some churches still do read it literally).  Of course my view might be 100% incorrect on these things, but I don't like seeing only the anti-gay Christian view presented, since there are Christians (such as myself) that disagree with that view.

In Psalms there is a verse about God knitting us together in our mothers wombs. I have to assume that he knew what he was doing and knows exactly who and what I am even though the rest of the world doesn't. I believed I was an abomination to him for years. Coming to terms with my transness has brought us closer together because I stopped trying to tell him I know best for my life and started listening to him.

There is absolutly no discussion of transness in the bible. It wasn't even a word until the 1960's or later so how could a book written two to four thousand years ago comment on it. Not to say there weren't trans people around back then. So, if we were around and the Bible remains silent on the issue we must believe that it is not a sin.

Huggs

Emily

just me 94

Please be patient with God and he will reveal himself and his true nature to you.  He does not hate you, he loves you.  He could care less whether you pray to him as a boy or girl.  Paul in the New testament, in Galations clearly states with our new convenant there is neither Jew not Greek, male or female!  God cares about you.  He only asks of you the same as he asks anyone else.  Accept Jesus as you Lord and Savior, accept his presence and love.  He will walk with you and help you decide how you need to live, boy or girl.  You are commanded as a believer to go into all the world and tell others the truth about him, and love one another as he loved.  The bible does not say you are going to hell based on your male/female concerns.  Put any thoughts of self destruction behind you, you have much to offer, and a lifetime to see how much he loves you!

Veronica

Quote from: Slanan on October 02, 2011, 05:37:16 PM
Or it might suggest that Onan was disobeying his father and humiliating Tamar, and disrespecting his dead brother, by going against the customs of the time.  This doesn't apply to male homosexual sex, nor does it apply (as is too often misinterpreted) to male masturbation.  The sin was denying Tamar pregnancy, not masturbation or otherwise "spilling seed".

I agree... if spilling the seed was bad i believe that would have been more explicit, it isn't logical anyways with respect to being a matter of prevention of destruction of potential of life...

Quote
The story could also be used to justify handing over your virgin daughters (yes, plural) to be raped - Gen 19:8 ("Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.").  But that wouldn't probably be accurate either.  But regardless, Gen 19:13 says that the Lord sent the men to Sodom to destroy it - that was before this attempted rape occurred.  Being that He hasn't instantly and recently destroyed any cities with large homosexual populations, I suspect that this was not their sin, but rather it was something unique and particularly ugly.

I agree that nothing is said directly about transexuality, although it does say a bit about eunuchs - not all good in the early part of the Bible (later things were intentionally reversed, hence a Eunuch being entrusted with carrying the gospel to Ethiopia).  Fortunately that commandment, for Christians, is of the same category of not eating shellfish - no longer applicable.  Gal 3:28 also might apply: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

But I also think that the translations of Paul's are very questionable when translated to imply homosexuality (something that they were not translated to mean until fairly recently, either).

That said, there are clear instructions from Paul for slaves to obey their masters - EVEN if the master is "harsh" in contrast to "kind and reasonable" (does this imply that a slave who ran away from abuse and sought freedom is sinning?  I wouldn't even think of saying that) - 1 Pet 2:18.  Jesus himself said divorce was wrong (while saying NOTHING about homosexuality or anything that could even be considered tangentially related to homosexuality) - Luke 16:18.  Women are supposed to cover their heads while praying while men are forbidden from doing so (1 Cor 11:4-6).  Oh, and women aren't to wear braided hair, gold, pearls, or expensive clothes (1 Tim 2:9).

Different Christians of course have different views about these.  My personal belief is that some of the specifics of how we should act in society can and do change over time (for instance, women can and should have independent legal existence from men), but that the main threads remain the same throughout time (we shouldn't judge, we should serve God, we should love each other, etc).  Certainly something that is only mentioned a few times in the Bible, and has a questionable translation on top of that (the New Testament verses on "homosexuals") should not be used to form a doctrine - particularly if you've found reasons that slaves should be free to run away from abuse, women should be able to pray without wearing a head covering, that divorce might be acceptable for instance in cases of abuse, etc.  These other things are talked about much clearer and have much less uncertainty around their translation - yet most churches recognize that things aren't quite as black and white as a literal reading might imply (yes, I know some churches still do read it literally).  Of course my view might be 100% incorrect on these things, but I don't like seeing only the anti-gay Christian view presented, since there are Christians (such as myself) that disagree with that view.

From what Latin studies I have done it seems that homosexuality was ridiculously prevalent in roman culture at the time, and wasn't really even referred to, as if it was not even something deserving of a name, in that it was so trivial...

Quote from: Emily Ray on October 02, 2011, 05:58:49 PM

There is absolutly no discussion of transness in the bible. It wasn't even a word until the 1960's or later so how could a book written two to four thousand years ago comment on it. Not to say there weren't trans people around back then. So, if we were around and the Bible remains silent on the issue we must believe that it is not a sin.

In many ancient cultures trans were considered to be spiritual beings...sacred... in some american indian cultures i think...but definitely in Indian cultures...
I believe Nero had the dick of his friend (possible lover) forcefully cut off against his will because he was suggestive of the desire to be a woman...


...just saying.

This was a really good discussion I was shown once: http://www.soulforce.org/resources/what-the-bible-says-and-doesnt-say-about-homosexuality/ (http://www.soulforce.org/resources/what-the-bible-says-and-doesnt-say-about-homosexuality/)

@ Emily Ray