Do you think you would be any happier than you are now?
A thread in the FTM section got me thinking about this. The topic for the guys was about thinking about how much better your life would be if you had been born in the correct male body. I was thinking that I wouldn't even be able to guess what type of person I would be if I had been born male, but I have a feeling I would still have some gender issues.
I feel like ive gotten to to the point where I identify first as an FTM, I still feel like an adrogyne in many ways, and often identify as both. I dont believe that if I had been born male, that I would be a 'normal' straight guy. I'm queer now in every sense of the word, and probably still would be. Maybe instead of being viewed as a butch lesbian, I would be a flamboyant gay guy, or dragqueen. I think I would still be gay/ adrogyne/ trans/ queer in some way or another.
Since we (as androgynes) dont really have an opposite sex, and the closest thing that biologically happens to 'correct' would be an intersexed or ambigigous genetalia condition, which unfortunately doctors insist on 'correcting', do you think your life would be better or happier if you had been born as the opposite sex from the one you were born as?
//edited for typos.
I wouldn't be any happier in a male body, but I don't think I'd be any more put out either. It's the secondary sex characteristics that I dislike and want to be rid of, and that would be the same no matter the sex of my body.
I definitly don't think I'd be any happier had I been *born* intersexed because I'm quite certain my parents would have absolutely "corrected" the condition which I'm quite sure comes with it's own set of trouble and difficulty.
I've thought long and hard on being born male....and I don't think I'd have been any happier. Though...I think had I still been androgyn I might have been happier because adding breasts to a body with beard and penis already might be easier on me. Though...the whole "being raised societally male" thing might not have been so fun...can't really know.
I've thought about it and my current feelings would be exactly the same no matter which body i got issued. This boy body will do me just fine until i turn into dust LOL.....
It's hard to guess; it's the kind of change where one wonders what else changes. For instance, if I still preferred women, I'd probably have gone through life as a semi-butch lesbian and not really thought about gender identity. If not, maybe I'd have been kind of a tomboy and also not thought much about gender identity. Or perhaps I'd be like a couple of my female friends, who -- without considering themselves androgyne per se -- are as comfortable being "one of the guys" as they are at being a girl, and don't believe the gender binary is absolute.
Depends what that body looked like. Harsh but honest. >:-)
I think that the butterfly effect would have kicked in on day one. I would be in an alternate world. Which one of the virtually infinate, I can't imagine that much information at once.
I'm already dealing with one version already. That's enough without wishing things could have better.
It's not half full and it's not half empty. It's just a glass with water in it.
Ativan
if i was born as a totally hot guy... there's still a chance my life would have been even more miserable than it is now
/thought experiment failed/
Technically I wouldn't be happier because I wouldn't know what it would be like having to deal with being FTM. But in general, I would obviously be much more accepting and proud of my body, and I would have much less issues. Although I would probably be less open and knowledgeable about gender and transsexuals. I would probably also be a bit more uncomfortable with my being gay.
thinking about it again i guess i would have an inferiority complex because of my penis size, instead of being perplexed and sometimes confused by the fact that there's nothing there. and i might start wondering why i have no vagina, and i'd have troubles trying to deal with my bi-/pansexuality, and maybe that child molester would have made me his first victim before my younger brothers
or maybe i'd really have been a happier person. who knows
Serious answer assuming this implies being born into the same ->-bleeped-<-ed up family.
Either married to some idiot stuck out in the sticks or more hopefully would have managed to break free and led a similar life to the one I've led but with more tranquillity, more joy and more love.
I imagine I'd like walking around in a female body, but I guess it'd come with it's own set of expectations and irritations.
Interesting question..
I'm not really sure to be honest..
I think I'd be an androgynous boy either way.
If I was born the opposite sex from which I was born.. I'd probably end up taking estrogen.
You know, I'm just in between so it's defiantly hard to say.
But I agree on being queer either way and what not.
If born into a female body then I would have had a very different life. If my Identity was the same as it is now then I'd be able to transition to my perfect body easier. I don't think I'd be happier or sader, but on the other hand a butch girl is more accepted then a fem guy. so I'd have had a very different experence of life & gender
Most likely I would have become a prostitue and have sex for drugs and fun with just anybody. I would be dead by now.
As identifying as being 75% female and 25% male in my gender binary I would be a lot happier if I was born as a girl. Sometimes I just don't feel that passing is enough but since I am a biological boy I want to stay that way. I still identity as ze or she but never he though.
Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on September 17, 2011, 01:19:50 AM
Most likely I would have become a prostitue and have sex for drugs and fun with just anybody. I would be dead by now.
That's the first thought that came to me as well to be 100% honest but I was too scared to write it here.
I think I'd have similar feelings and identity I do now, just from the other end of the biological spectrum. There are some things I probably would like more, and some things I would like less, so its evens out really. I probably would be ever-so-slightly happier as a female though, at least in our limited present day culture (gag). The grass is always greener I guess.
Hi,
The ? is not wether im one or the other im both . so as it stands i am both male / female . intersexed. so my ? would be would i like to be any different than i am . so a all out male or woman.
I have given that a lot of thought over the years & my answer is im happy the way i am ,
one is i dont know what its like other than how i am , iv had 64 years of being this way ,
Mind you i prefer womens clothes yet doing male or womens work is no different i dont mind what i do. & i have more women friends so i have the advantage of both worlds if you like & i can choose with out haveing to prove my self in one way or the other, so being in the middle ground is the best of all. & would i change that, no. my only disapointment is not haveing my womb, other than that im very happy,
...noeleena...
I think women get to wear mens and womens clothes without a second glance, but a male in a skirt will always get stares, so I'd have to say I prefer this body. I'd rather not have the whole montly and childbearing to go with it, but eh, what are you going to do? I'd say that 75% of the time I'd prefer a male body, but since the other 25% would be very difficult, I'd stick with this.
Well, IF i were to choose my body, I would pick a 100% female body over what I currently have any day.
It's not even that I could dress in any way or other (I mean, i already wear a skirt if i feel like, even before 'mones and all)
It's more like, it feels more proper for my way of being, to inhabit a female body.
I wouldn't want to have children though. But who knows, crazy life, rite ?
Though personally, I would prefer to be a sea unicorn. Narwhals, ->-bleeped-<-yeah.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg26.xooimage.com%2Ffiles%2F0%2F1%2F0%2Fnarwhal-10ee439.jpg&hash=da3ecd0696c536ed0f47a161e6d3353b59b08f9c)
OH I KNOW
I would rather be an Alternative Rock.
Like, it would look like a common rock, except with tattoos and piercings :D
What a sad thread.
No I'd be not be happier.
Why?
Because maybe others have been happier because I existed as is.
But I do feel same way now as when I was young. Just never solved it.
Changes in childhood aside, I'd probably end up nearly the same as I am now. One of the reasons why I stopped transitioning is that I realized changing my sex wouldn't solve anything. My internal gender seems to drift here and there, through boy/girl/both/neither, so I'd have just as much joy and just as much self-hatred in a female body. I guess I'd have more fashion choice, but I'm mentally pretty close to being able to make my own rules in that arena anyway.
At the moment, I'm going through a fairly masculine (for me, anyway) phase, and I'm quite satisfied with the guy who looks back from the other edge of the mirror; if I was physically female, I'd hate myself so much right now... Probably at some point I'll get really feminine again (hopefully I can handle it, haha...)
Oh, and the 'monthly event' is no fun, or so I hear. I'm glad to not have that one.
I wouldn't mind the menstruation.
IF I was able, i'm sure i'd like to have children at some point.
But since I'm not, I dont care.
I could be a "father" but I dont want that.
Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on September 19, 2011, 03:44:18 AM
I wouldn't mind the menstruation.
IF I was able, i'm sure i'd like to have children at some point.
But since I'm not, I dont care.
I could be a "father" but I dont want that.
I would have liked to be a mom.
I am glad I got to be a dad. My children happen to be most accepting of me including my son. They would not have existed if I were born gender that appears more natural to me.
Depression and anxiety is a human condition and it is higher in transgender community. Removing gender issues does not necessarily remove depression and anxiety. I know friends that are totally comfortable and made correct decision to transition and still have depression and anxiety.
......................
After careful analysis for several years, question for me becomes what to do now for me. Being transgender is a "part" of my life and I have unfortunately allowed it to "consume" my life. What I have done has been correct for me but it has come at a painfully high price. A second question is what we can do to educate society and promote diversity. Nature loves diversity and society hates diversity.
I like that, as that wise film, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves' said...'Allah loves wondrous diversity'.
I don't think I would be happier if I was born in a female body. Anyways I think that I have some tweeking to do. I would like to get some hormones to reduce my male appearence and enhance my female appearence and maybe a surgery here or there.
But I believe that I can make it work with a male body.
I'm not entirely sure. I think there would be too many variables to even speculate what my life would have been like. I imagine I would feel I would have more freedom to express myself, but then there would probably be other problems for me to deal with instead.
The only major issue I've had being in a male body is knowing that I will never carry my own child.
That said if I was still born with Neurofibromatosis, I still wouldn't. With a 50% chance of passing this on, I've decided that the risks of even fathering children is too great. :(
oh wow, my first thought was: hell yes, I'd want to have been born with a male body.
but I wouldn't be in the place I am now if I had been, so no, it wouldn't have been good really. plus, I don't want to be a guy actually. And I actually think I would have had far more problems if I'd been born with a male body, as it probably would have been terrible at school. I think there was definitely a lot of pressure at my school on boys. Not a single gay guy at my school? yeah right. just no one dared to come out. anyone androgyn acting feminine would probably have been pounced on. :embarrassed:
damn, now i'm making this thread depressing again?
I don't know - sometimes I think I would be happier, sometimes I think I wouldn't. I really think it depends on how I feel.
Really like this thread, as i think every single person, not only on here but in life in general has thought what it would be like to be the opposite gender. Think with me it would depend on where i was on the sliding scale as to what answer i gave, but trying to give a neutral answer (which is hard at the moment as i am leaning heavily over to my female self at present) i just think i would be no different than what i am now, just wishing i didnt have breasts i guess, bearing in mind that is what i dream about having being male. Just think it might be easier to be born an andro female than male, just looking at the clothes aspect, mean to say, name an item of clothing a male can wear that a female cant, dont exactly work the other way round though.
Quote from: shelly on September 23, 2011, 06:17:38 AMname an item of clothing a male can wear that a female cant, dont exactly work the other way round though.
soldiering protective gloves.
they be big even for my hand, a woman's hand would be like tiny.
protective cups for genitals
speedo :o
and maaaaaaaaaaybe, emo pants. Because really, only men can look emo wearing emo pants. Girls just look like girls.
Great topic. Yes, I would have been happier. I spent my tomboy childhood, wanting to be a boy, complete with physical attributes. None of my friends were into 'girly' things. When I reached puberty, I wished I could have an operation to remove all the bits and pieces to do with bearing a child - I knew I'd never need them. When I was a student and fell for all the gay guys, well, yes, life would have been much easier if I'd been a guy myself, instead of being rejected all the time. My years in the military would have been no different on a career level, but the bloke-me would probably have done a lot less sleeping around than what the real-me did, in a weird attempt to hate and abuse my female body. And now, I would definitely be a lot happier in a bloke's body. It's only since I moved here that I've started to realise that I'm not who I thought I was. It would be so much easier if I could start all over again in this town, but in a different body. The folks here just aren't ready for people who don't fit 'the norm'. They're just about coming to terms with regular gays!
And as for the future? I really can't imagine not being lonely, either in the near- or distant future. How the heck does someone like me find a companion?
I have also thought often about this (and about the concept some have of a self separate from any body). My conclusion is the body has a profound influence on the personality. I imagine I would be quite different if I had an athletic body about a foot taller than mine--without changing the sex. Clearly, to have been exposed more to female hormones throughout life would have had an effect.
I would rather have been born female. On the other hand, a perceived increased vulnerability to abuse causes me to hesitate (as if I have a choice). And, I have learned to be pretty happy in the body I have. I would like to ditch some of the expectations Pica referred to.
S
Yes, I would have been much happier as a tall, quasi-Nerdy, gawky, tomboy, lesbian wearing very casual clothes and a ponytail. I know exactly what I would have been and if I could snap my fingers to be there in an instant I would. LOL, I actually have an easier time imagining myself as a female then figuring out where the heck I fit in guy-land. Could you tell?
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the Androgyne board but this was just too enticing a topic.
Not sure why we're discussing this with only opposite or binary body options in the androgyne area. The body I am in my dream state is intersexed, w/ female secondary sex characteristics. There is no exact opposite. I'm sure my life would've been different born in a female body, however if I had the same psyche and personality I have now, I would probably be pushing against the binary constraints of that box too.
Z
Interesting how we are talking about the opposite body and not the opposite brain (gender identity). Or opposite sexual orientation for that matter...
I think we're talking about opposite bodies to tease out our relationships with the bodies we have. Talking about binary bodies because we are looking at where we would have rubbed up against ourselves in those too.
Quote from: Pica Pica on September 25, 2011, 01:02:26 AM
I think we're talking about opposite bodies to tease out our relationships with the bodies we have. Talking about binary bodies because we are looking at where we would have rubbed up against ourselves in those too.
Hmm, thats not what I was thinking when I started this thread, but I don't disagree with that. I think the topic of having or being born with an androgyne body has been discussed enough here, and usually leads to major thread drift now anyway. Also, the language to discuss gender without binary terms just doesn't exist yet, so Its clearer to use concepts everyone gets.
Quote from: Zythyra on September 24, 2011, 06:42:09 PMThe body I am in my dream state is intersexed, w/ female secondary sex characteristics.
Intersexed was one of the things I thoughts I had, but as I mentioned in the OP, doctors usually 'fix' that and create a binary gender, so I ruled that out as an option for this thread. Maybe we need a "If you had been born intersex and the doctors didn't make you binary...." thread.
//preemptively puts foot in mouth in case of any offended intersexed people.
/// feet taste gross.
Quote from: kyle_lawrence on September 27, 2011, 02:57:57 PM
Intersexed was one of the things I thoughts I had, but as I mentioned in the OP, doctors usually 'fix' that and create a binary gender, so I ruled that out as an option for this thread. Maybe we need a "If you had been born intersex and the doctors didn't make you binary...." thread.
//preemptively puts foot in mouth in case of any offended intersexed people.
/// feet taste gross.
To the best of my knowledge, I wasn't born intersex, however many years ago, I had a dream in which I saw my "true self", and in that dream my body was a mix of female and male. It was a profound moment in my realization of my androgynous nature.
Z
I would have loved to be born my "true" gender. My life would have been different. In my religious culture, I would have been allowed to pursue my artistic interests more instead of getting an engineering degree to put food on the table. I would definitely have been a musician, probably teaching somewhere by now and playing my heart out in local venues. I'm sure that I would not have married and would be a tom boy to the max.
But would I be happier? I don't know. I have this problem with depression and it runs through my whole family. We worry about every detail of every event in our lives. And when there is nothing major to worry about, we pick up on the ittie bitty stuff to engross our attention. I can tell you for sure that I would'nt have had GID problems. Perhaps that all by itself would have made me happier in my childhood.
Cindi
I don't know what religous culture you're talking about but MOST religions would have you stop your artistic pursuits to have kids and take care of hubby. Unless you want to start a family at aged 40 which is pretty old imo (and if hubby lets you lol )
Quote from: espo on September 29, 2011, 11:40:41 AM
I don't know what religous culture you're talking about but MOST religions would have you stop your artistic pursuits to have kids and take care of hubby. Unless you want to start a family at aged 40 which is pretty old imo (and if hubby lets you lol )
I am at peace with God. It is people that create conflict. I adored dad and he was military, homophobic tough. He worked hard, was honest, was generous but had minimal sensitivity. My dad was brutal to my sister whose life partner is a girl. Would I have liked girls sexually if I were born a girl? Maybe not but my wife was my best friend as a male.
As Cindy said depression runs in her family. It runs in mine too.
God is totally comfortable with variations in nature; it is our society that has a problem.
............................
Actually it is today that gives me problems. I seem paralyzed with analysis. Dr. Wayne Dyer said something similar to this: I rather approve of myself and have others disapprove of me as opposed to disapprove of myself and have other approve of me.
Changing ones gender is very stressful and should warrant empathy not condemnation.
Maybe we can benefit from our life's experiences and be better?
Agreed Wendy. I am religious myself, but have no patience for people whose idea of deity is a nasty fellow who creates "flawed" people, blames them for what they are, and requires them to deny their nature and/or beg forgiveness for being what they are.
No god worth caring about is so petty and twisted. I prefer to think of the universe as a cool experimental art project, and we are supposed to be as varied and interesting as it suits us to be.
opposite...nah, I got nothin'...
Ativan
Quote from: Zythyra on September 27, 2011, 04:43:02 PM
To the best of my knowledge, I wasn't born intersex, however many years ago, I had a dream in which I saw my "true self", and in that dream my body was a mix of female and male. It was a profound moment in my realization of my androgynous nature.
Z
interesting. i had a dream like that too once, male and female genitalia, but i think with male secondary sex characteristics. not that i realized much from it, it just made me wonder wth i had a dream like that, even though i probably already knew that i'd rather have an intersex body
A bit hard for me to answer the question as posed, because my body is in the middle, so I can only comment on which way I should like to go. Would I like to be a big strong macho man, or a soft and understanding girl? Temptation is to say I'd go for the man, because for most ordinary living, that's what I am, but I think I could get along as a fully-fledged girl OK. But the truth is that what I am now I'm perfectly happy with, and I dont think I'd be any happpier either way. This, of course is helped by my living and working in an environment where I'm accepted.
Now you just need to accept yourself and accept the changes as life goes on.
Ativan
Late, but that's all right.
Assuming I'd have the same brain and thought process, I'd be way happier in a male body. It would be easier just to be a gay guy than being a gay guy in a female body (that I don't hate, which makes it even more complicated). BUT I have a little brother and if that's what being male would have made me, no thanks. The tall and skinny thing would be nice though. ;)
Probably... Uhhhh... I'm with Ativan, I got nothing.
I'd think that me just not rambling on about an opposite body would have earned a few applauds.....But I still got nothin'.
With eyes of good intentions upon me,
Ativan
(I know this is an old topic, but this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately.)
Note: I'm a neutrois. I hate the idea of being any form of 'cis'.
I wish, so badly, that I was CAMAB instead of CAFAB. This body is just...wrong. I know that as a CAMAB trans person, I would be more discriminated against than as a CAFAB one, but this is just...wrong, having these hips that I can't hide, and all this stuff...
Plus, I identify as asexual, but I have a very high sex drive and I'm completely obsessed with the idea of sex-the main reason why I identify as asexual is because the idea of having sex with a vagina, the estrogen-dominant style of orgasms, and generally all of that, on MY body, is absolutely repulsive to me. Even using dildos, or having had meta/phallo (which has terrible results anyway), just wouldn't work. It's CAMAB or bust. I turned out CAFAB, so I basically have to abstain from sex my whole life.
I don't know. I'd probably be a massive Tom-boy, but I would have probably had a better relationship with men. I've always envied the androgynous looking girls who have really slim figures, short hair cuts and that kind prebuscent boy kinda look. On the other hand it would probably still have been just as difficult to have to go against societal norms of femininity as it is for men to go against norms of masculinity.
I highly doubt I'd be happy in a male body. I'd be happy in a body that's a mixture of both or gender neutral. I'm not a fan of the sexual organs of either sex and I'd be much happier without. Sex has a bit of bearing since I can't imagine having sex with a woman as a man -- the penis portion just repulses me.
If I was born male instead of female, I don't think much would have changed. I would have probably experimented with shorter hairstyles earlier because my sister wouldn't have been mad at me for "copying" her. I can't really say what a change in hormones would do, but I suspect I would have less migraines. Maybe it would have been more acceptable for me to be friends with the boys in elementary school and therefore, wouldn't have gone through the problems I had with girls, but there's no guarantee the guys wouldn't have turned out the same way. Either way, I was teased by both genders for being a weirdo and I doubt that would change.
There are more resources for females leaving abusive situations than there are for abused males though. For that, I am grateful.
I think I would have been happier as a male. I am repulsed by my female body and hope to get surgery when the option is available. However, I still think I would be androgyne and probably happier as that. Nothing will change the gender of my 'soul' whatever body it is in. It's just me. But at least in a male body I would have the constant self-loathing and challenge of hiding my body as much as possible.
I've asked myself this not long ago.
I am born in a female body. I identify as androgyn. But I lean towards the masculine side and I want to transition towards a more masculine look.
If I were born in a male body, I would probably still feel androgyn, but I would not seek transitioning. I think that I would start to accept my male genitals the way I currently accept my female genitals: I'd rather have none, but since it is there and I got used to it after my whole life so far, so I have decided to keep them.
So yes, I think I would be happier if I were born as a male.
Absolutely. My mom would still piss me off though...
Happier?
Hard to say. I mean a lot of the problems I have now would be different if I had a woman's body. I would be able to relate to people in a way that is more natural to me - more "what's been going on" less "how they hangin'". I'd be able to experience things that my current body doesn't allow, like giving birth or nursing a baby.
On the other hand, who knows what problems I'd have that I don't have now. There are elements of my personality that are distinctly male. I don't care about clothes, shopping, decorating, etc., things that are traditionally (but not universally) female. Would I feel like a fish out of water in that body too.
I think I'm kind of hopelessly stuck with one leg on one side and one on the other. Neither way feels exactly right, though if I were starting from scratch, I think I'd choose to be a woman next time round.
Great Question!
I think it's a great question, and one we've all asked ourselves at some point.
Were I born as a straight GG I doubt I'd have known the difference, and I would have likely been one of those unremarkably average people.
If there is one thing I truly appreciate that being intersexed and trans has taught me, it is my tolerance toward others.
Whenever I dissaprove of someone, even a religious nut who HATES people like us, I find myself empathising and really understanding that were I looking through their eyes I'd likely think the same thing.
The converse, however, is not true: That person will not put themselves in my shoes and try to understand me because they lack the life experiences that would have them reaching to understand. No, instead they live in a dark world of negativity and hatred toward things different.
I TRULY pity those types, and I feel they are all but missing the ENTIRE point of life!
In other words, as painful as it is to admit, I think I'd rather have this lovely open mind and beautiful mindset...and face these difficulties...than be an unremarkable dullard with no frame of reference toward accepting others because their own personal acceptance came so easy.
That said there are queer types who also practice hatred and closed-mindedness, and those are the real morons in my opinion because they were given a unique oppourtunity to understand that not everyone is the same, and that not everyone "chooses" who they are (really who does?)...and yet they still blew it!
In the end the question is only an exercise, and not something to really get caught up in. We are here today, and we are who we are, so the best thing we can do is use that experience to better ourselves.
Gosh did that that even make any sense? :eusa_think:
Were I born with a male body I think I would still have some dysphoria but not as bad as it is now.
I probably would have been more of a target for bullying as a child though, so I'm relieved I missed out on some of that.
I'm not sure if I'd be more happy or not all in all.
How about if I suddenly had the opposite body? I think I would probably be extremely happy for a bit, then realize that I'm still nonbinary (whoops) and just have to settle in to living with it. I probably (?) wouldn't have to deal with the same levels of depression though.