Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Kia Ora kind folks,

::) This is for those members who have lost their faith[in a god] and now embrace atheism...[or if not pure atheism, at lease atheistic agnosticism]

Quite a few members here were born into religious families, attending Church, Synagogue, Mosque, Temple,  etc, on a regular bases-praying to a god for guidance, assistance, forgiveness, etc... 

It must be very difficult to completely give up this god-centric comfort zone...

What brings you comfort, now you know/believe all your prayers have fallen upon deaf ears ?

What now fills this void ?

What do you do to cope with your apparent lose of faith ?

Does it bring you a sense of 'freedom' ?

Please try to answer the above question/s without venturing into an attack on those members who still choose to believe...Keep it all about how you are feeling now-coping with this lose...

Remember folks this is in the 'ATHEIST" section,[for obvious reasons] so if you're a theist, please keep this in mind if you feel incline to pass comment...

I would also like to add the last part of a PM message[which I found quite interesting and informative] sent to me by Sera [relating to another of my threads on atheism]  "Atheists believe in the 'non-existence' of God!" 

Metta Zenda :)

Interesting that nobody has replied yet. I wasn't going to because my experience doesn't really fit the topic. I never had any faith to begin with...

Quote from: Arch on September 17, 2011, 01:20:28 AM
Interesting that nobody has replied yet. I wasn't going to because my experience doesn't really fit the topic. I never had any faith to begin with...

Kia Ora Arch,

::) Just out of interest, were you born into a religious family, but grew up without faith/belief in a god?

Metta Zenda :)

I'm not really pure athiest, I kind of believe that I'm going to be reincarnated, I guess that sounds better than souless eternal black void. The truth is, I don't really know, or I do but I can't think right now, but I do cope somehow.

Quote from: Zenda on September 17, 2011, 01:30:24 AMJust out of interest, were you born into a religious family, but grew up without faith/belief in a god?

My family seemed like very relaxed Protestants at first. At four and five, at least until my mother became very ill, I was forced to go to Sunday school while my parents and brother went to church. When I was around six, my mother had mostly recovered; we went to church a few times, and then she and my father sat down with us and asked us if we wanted to keep going. My brother and I both said, "No, thanks." I had very strong feelings about the matter but kept them hidden. I was a secretive child, not just because I was trans.

When I was eight, my mother started trying to indoctrinate me...secretly, I think, because my father seemed not to know about it. I politely resisted until she stopped. There were other pressures here and there, so I made sure that I never brought up religion. And when she pushed, I just practiced passive resistance.

I think my father was the one stopping her from going whole hog.

Somewhere in my teens, she started to become scary--heavily into a televangelist whose name I don't recall, highlighting all the passages he referred to, stuff like that. She hinted around, then started making noise about having me baptized. I did my usual thing again.

Once, when I was thirteen or fourteen, I was very desperate. My father was changing careers, so money was tight and he was never around. My brother was an adult and was making plans to move out. I hated my mother. My body was changing. I had always had my boy identity and fantasies about male bonding, but now they were turning sexual. I was ashamed. I thought I was a perv. Some friends were very into Jesus, and they seemed so happy and so sure of themselves. I tried to believe. For about three weeks, I tried with all my might. It was hollow. I'm just not wired that way.

I have never tried again.

I've had God shoved down my throat since I was in school. I think Christianity might have been a pretty pure and noble faith at one time, but now, Its full of hypocrisy and has just become a cult with more members. Did I believe in god at one time? perhaps. I know as a child I prayed to not be a boy. Maybe God is out there and testing me. But I've had to fight for so much in my life that I'd almost resent God if he, or she, were to grant that wish now. So my faith now is in myself. I've put my faith in others and been hurt and let down to often.

I'm a strange one (I realise no one will believe that statement :laugh:)

I was born into a very religious Roman Catholic family. Very loving and very devote. My Mum and Dad were fantastic parents who sacrificed their lives so that their children could get excellent education. They both saw that education was the only way for their children to escape the appalling poverty that they grew up in and their love for their children was absolute.

I was the highly desired male child. Except I'm not. And I wasn't. When I came out the religious fabric collapsed. I could not believe in a god that created me to be told I was a sin. I would be prayed for, and when I confessed I would be forgiven.

I gave up religion at that that moment. I, as did Paul the Apostle,  had a revelation. In my case it was opposite to Paul's, I saw a crock of crap. I have from that moment lived on my belief in my self. I believe in loving and helping people. Not because they share a religion, but because they need help, and loving people is, to my mind the fundamental of life.

I'll stop there .

Cindy     

I grew up Jewish by race, in a family that was Jewish by faith too, but I never believed in a god. I think of myself as non-theist, rather than taking a "stance" of Atheist with a capital A - the whole "everything was made by someone" thing just seems meaningless to me, so I don't feel the need to assume a position relative to it :).

No void to fill, so no void-filling needed. Meaning has always been there.

Now love, that's a different matter - it took me until two years ago to realise that the apparent void in me that needed filling by others was already full of love. I'd hidden it there until it was safe to let it out. I really enjoy loving others and being loved, but it's such a relief to realise I have a rich source of my own.

I don't feel a need to fill a religious void of some kind either... Nor would I necessarily call myself an Atheist... I know that I am a good person who will do their best to help others when able and don't really need a particular dogma to tell me that

I hear people say that "Love is God and God is Love" but notice that few actually understand what that phrase means

The hypocrisy of organized religion exposed it'self to me at a rather young age and so it was comparable to finding out that Santa Claus and the
Easter Bunny were fictional as well

I do believe in God and that God is Love, but I do not believe that organized religion has gotten it quite right as of yet

Basically, I never lost God, I just decided to lose the hypocritical purveyors who treat God like a vending machine of sorts... IMO

I'm with Padma on this one.  My mom and grandma were always in fights about whether the latter would be allowed to indoctrinate me or not.  I'm glad my mom supported the views she did, so I was raised to believe what felt right, and the idea of an uncreated creator never sat well with me.

I still experienced a void, though, a gap in my understanding of everything.  I filled it with Buddhism, and occasional study of things like biology, cosmology, etc.  Whenever I had the apathy and loss of purpose most atheists are accused of living with constantly, I would think about what the situation of humanity is believed to be based on evidence and science. 

I've come to the conclusion that there's probably nothing after death, whether we want there to be or not.  I fill the void that desire creates by realizing that life is much more than we give it credit for.  In all the millions of years this universe has existed, we're the one known solar system with one planet in the exact position relative to the sun that supports life.  We are provided some of the most habitable conditions possible, and out of all the species who have ever existed and may ever exist, we're currently the only ones who are self-aware enough to develop true awe and appreciation of the reality around us, let alone the advancements in technology and society that have allowed us to take such interest in our own individual life spans.

That may not be enough for some, but I'd much rather take advantage of and be content with the sheer improbability and astonishing nature of our existence than spend time looking for a purpose outside of it.

LOST?!?!?! Isn't the whole premise of the question rather inaccurate and insulting? I didn't "lose" god, I'm not checking super natural lost and founds hoping to recover god, or super natural bargain bins to trying to find a new deity. I was fortunate enough I was able to see past the indoctrination I grew up with and recognize the god of the Bible is just a myth. That's not a loss, that's a gain.

It must be very difficult to completely give up this god-centric comfort zone...

I never found it that comfortable. I spent many nights thinking about the billions(trillions+?) of people I believed were being tortured for eternity because they never heard or never believed. I spent plenty of nights as a child focused on the prayer instead of the belief and worrying I said something slightly wrong and would go to hell. As I got older I was uncomfortable with the idea of a heaven where my mind would be overwritten to never feel a negative emotion(what happens do you forget a ton, are you loaded up on supernatural drugs that make sad thoughts not bother you?). The simple idea of perfection bothered me. I enjoy competition, how do you compete if everyone is perfect? Christianity was never comfortable it was just what I believed.

What brings you comfort, now you know/believe all your prayers have fallen upon deaf ears ?

Friends and they actually talk back.

What now fills this void ?

Void? The only "void" is the end of existence when you die. I don't like that, I want to keep existing, but as I said heaven isn't exactly a great option either. "I" want to keep existing not have my consciousness transferred into a mindless praise machine. I was taught that if you believe in god and ask forgiveness for your sins at that point you are saved and will go to heaven. The good you do on earth will get you rewards(crowns ect) that you will then return to god and spend eternity happily praising god. Anyone you knew that died unsaved goes to hell and burns forever and you either won't know or won't care. Life doesn't matter, to quote the pastor "This life is the only hell believers will know, and it's the only heaven non-believers will know". I "lost" the rather dubious eternal "existence"(if you can call being so altered still existing) I believed I would have some day and gained a life that actually matters now. LIFE fills the void, when it's not just a way stop to heaven living is an amazing experience. It has it's ups and downs(too many downs) but the simple ability to enjoy living... I don't have a void, I quit believing in an existence where I was barely living and expecting to be even less alive when I died and GAINED a life that while too short is full of meaning.

Since I didn't lose something I want no longer believing in god did not create a void.

What do you do to cope with your apparent lose of faith ?

Cope? The only thing to cope with is the fact life will end. Cope by living, focus on today's happiness not the eventual end.

Does it bring you a sense of 'freedom' ?

YES

coping with this lose...

IT'S NOT A LOSS. It's a GAIN.

Atheists believe in the 'non-existence' of God!"

That's a load of crap. Yes, there are some atheists out there that believe there is no god as religiously as theists believe there is. Theists like to trumpet those people, but that theistic view of atheism is just a load of crap. A-theist - non-theist I don't have to believe there is no god to not believe there is one. There may well be a god, by definition a natural being can not disprove the existence of a super natural being. I know no god, I have no god, I'm not looking for a god. I do not think there is one but know I can't eliminate the possibility. You might say "oh you admit you don't know that makes you agnostic" Too me agnosticism focuses on the question. I'm not questioning I don't care enough about supernatural speculation to be comfortable calling myself agnostic. I don't know of a god, I don't "think" there is one, I don't need one. To me it's as much a settled subject as the existence of dragons.  Maybe, maybe not, who really cares? I'm an atheist not because I "believe" in non-existence but rather because I don't know of an existence and don't care enough to speculate further.

You tell us not to insult the theists in our answers. How insulting do you think I find it to be told I've "lost god" I have a "void" and I "believe in non-existence"?

Please tone it down, Renee. Zenda was very specific that she was addressing people who DID have faith at one time but who HAVE lost that faith and have taken a nonreligious path. She writes,

QuoteThis is for those members who have lost their faith[in a god] and now embrace atheism...[or if not pure atheism, at lease atheistic agnosticism].

Also remember that "lose" has a number of meanings. Granted, Zenda seems to have meant it as a deprivation, but the word can also mean to get rid of something intentionally.

I understand exactly what you are saying, and I understand your objections. Many atheists (whether they ever had faith at one time) probably feel the same way. I, for one, never had the faith to begin with. And a few of my formerly religious friends who are now agnostics, atheists, or nontheists do not seem to feel that they have lost anything. But I haven't asked them, and I suspect that some people with nontheistic beliefs might well miss certain aspects about having that faith. Perhaps they do have a void in their life.

By all means explain your belief system. But if you already know that you don't fit into the category of one who feels that she HAS lost God/a god (regardless of what was gained), then you have no business taking someone else to task because the category does not fit you. Perhaps Zenda entered into this discussion with some preconceptions, but she did not tell YOU that you have lost your faith and now have a void. She was targeting people who have.

Quote from: Arch on September 17, 2011, 10:36:55 PM
Please tone it down, Renee. Zenda was very specific that she was addressing people who DID have faith at one time but who HAVE lost that faith and have taken a nonreligious path. She writes,
Also remember that "lose" has a number of meanings. Granted, Zenda seems to have meant it as a deprivation, but the word can also mean to get rid of something intentionally.

I understand exactly what you are saying, and I understand your objections. Many atheists (whether they ever had faith at one time) probably feel the same way. I, for one, never had the faith to begin with. And a few of my formerly religious friends who are now agnostics, atheists, or nontheists do not seem to feel that they have lost anything. But I haven't asked them, and I suspect that some people with nontheistic beliefs might well miss certain aspects about having that faith. Perhaps they do have a void in their life.

By all means explain your belief system. But if you already know that you don't fit into the category of one who feels that she HAS lost God/a god (regardless of what was gained), then you have no business taking someone else to task because the category does not fit you. Perhaps Zenda entered into this discussion with some preconceptions, but she did not tell YOU that you have lost your faith and now have a void. She was targeting people who have.

Kia Ora Arch,

::) I was just about to explain to Renee what this thread was all about, but it would seem you have already done this, so thanks...

Metta Zenda :)

Kia Ora,

::) God [the concept of a god] had played a big part in the lives of many of those who are new comers to atheism...

::) So now you have 'lost' God, how do you fill the void ?

::) What has replaced god in your life?

Metta Zenda :)

Kia Ora,

::) I had better explain my background...

I hail from a 'irreligious' background, however I did attend Sunday school as did most kids in the area where I grew up[cheap baby-sitting for our parents  ;)]...

Growing up [a part from Sunday school], churches were for weddings, funerals and jumble sales...I can count on one hand [with fingers to spare] the amount of times I attended church on a Sunday to worship whatever it was the other church goers were worshiping...

In my late teen and early twenties I did [like many do at this age] search for this elusive supernatural being known as god, mainly through drugs and philosophical debate with friends [as dope heads with time on their hands normally do]...For a while I was a dreadlock Rasta , but this still wasn't enough, to fully satisfy my mind...

I would say for quite a while I was agnostic-I couldn't pin down what many believed in and worshipped on a daily bases[ I had no faith whatsoever] but my mind remained open to the possibility for quite some time...

However over the years even this open mind towards the possibility of a god gradually began to close... The more I delved into the whole set up, the less likely it was becoming for a god in any shape or form could take up residence within my mind...

I guess now I would class my 'self' as an agnostic atheist, what I mean by this is, if proof of a god was handed to me on a plate, I would have no option but to believe in its existence...But I can't see this happening...

::) It's all in the mind...[of both the believer and non believer]...Where else could a god reside...

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Arch on September 17, 2011, 10:36:55 PM
Zenda was very specific that she was addressing people who DID have faith at one time but who HAVE lost that faith and have taken a nonreligious path.

I DID have faith at one time. I am now an atheist. That should have been fairly clear from my comments. Yes, lost can have multiple meanings but I think her meaning was clear enough. "Lost" "void" "give up...comfort zone" "cope" There is a very consistent theme through out the post that going from faith to atheism was a bad thing. I view it as an unqualified good thing. The only downside I see to atheism(non-existence after death) doesn't have a substitute I find satisfactory in Christianity. No void was created. There is no coping, There is no giving up. And yes it bothers me the way the theistic talk down to atheists especially those who used to be believers as if something went wrong and we lost something by not holding beliefs we used to hold. Theism does not intrinsically offer something atheists need but lack.

ps. My mistake in thinking Zenda was theistic. As I pointed out("Lost" "void" "give up...comfort zone" "cope") the original post puts a negative spin on the path from theism to atheism. I view it as a positive path. I grew up in a VERY conservative church. I was in church 3 times a week, went to a private school run by the church with daily bible classes 5 days a week. I was completely immersed in fundamentalist christianity from birth till HS graduation and I actually believed it. Now that I don't believe it I feel my life is better. I don't feel a sense of loss. I don't need to cope. And although I believed it I never found it to be a comfort zone.

Quote from: Renee_ on September 17, 2011, 11:22:34 PM
I DID have faith at one time. I am now an atheist. That should have been fairly clear from my comments. Yes, lost can have multiple meanings but I think her meaning was clear enough. "Lost" "void" "give up...comfort zone" "cope" There is a very consistent theme through out the post that going from faith to atheism was a bad thing. I view it as an unqualified good thing. The only downside I see to atheism(non-existence after death) doesn't have a substitute I find satisfactory in Christianity. No void was created. There is no coping, There is no giving up. And yes it bothers me the way the theistic talk down to atheists especially those who used to be believers as if something went wrong and we lost something by not holding beliefs we used to hold. Theism does not intrinsically offer something atheists need but lack.

ps. My mistake in thinking Zenda was theistic. As I pointed out("Lost" "void" "give up...comfort zone" "cope") the original post puts a negative spin on the path from theism to atheism. I view it as a positive path. I grew up in a VERY conservative church. I was in church 3 times a week, went to a private school run by the church with daily bible classes 5 days a week. I was completely immersed in fundamentalist christianity from birth till HS graduation and I actually believed it. Now that I don't believe it I feel my life is better. I don't feel a sense of loss. I don't need to cope. And although I believed it I never found it to be a comfort zone.

Kia Ora Renee,

::) Thanks for clearing this up for me....

::) However the reason behind this thread was to find out how a person could go from a harden 'believer' to a somewhat absolute 'disbeliever'...My mind finds it hard to grasp the change in perception of those that do...

::) I have an ex brother in law who became a born again Christian, ended up becoming a pastor in a fundy church...Then a few years back my sister told me he left the church, left his wife, and is now living with his 'male' life partner...I'm not sure whether or not he 'became' an atheist or just changed how he saw his god...

Metta Zenda :)   

Quote from: Zenda on September 17, 2011, 11:50:31 PM::) However the reason behind this thread was to find out how a person could go from a harden 'believer' to a somewhat absolute 'disbeliever'...My mind finds it hard to grasp the change in perception of those that do...

That is an entirely different question. I think for me the key is the definition of "faith". As I said I was immersed in very fundamentalist christian beliefs. My science classes taught creationism, 6-8000 year old earth, I was taken to seminars that existed JUST to poke holes in evolutionary theory. Sciences classes spent time poking holes in evolutionary theory. I didn't really have friends outside of church/school(the same organization). It was a truly immersive experience and I believed it... what else did I have to believe? But I think my ability to make that shift hung on "faith". I understand many believers treat faith as a way to explain away things that contradict their beliefs. I wasn't taught that. Hebrews 11:1 "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Faith was taught as 1. an expectation that past experience predicts future results. The example my HS bible class teacher used. You've seen chairs hold people up, you've sat down in a chair many times and it held you up. When you sit in a chair you aren't hesitant, you have "faith" the chair will hold you up because of your experience. 2. a filler for gaps in knowledge. I was taught we don't have to know everything, what we don't know can be left to faith. Classes like science class handled arguing the evidence. I was presented with a christianity that was arguable and stood up on it's own without the need for "blind faith" to ignore "contradictions". I got online during my senior year. I used to debate w/ atheists and reasonably successfully to. Until I hit an argument I couldn't fit into my beliefs. I thought about it for months even brought it up at a Bible study(was told it was an off topic question). Since faith was never a tool for ignoring facts I finally had to yield to the argument. Once I did that the conclusions stemming from it completely unraveled christianity for me in a matter of months. It actually took me far longer to accept evolution than to quit believing god existed.

My first post covers why I don't see the change as a negative or something to cope with. This one should answer the question of how I made the complete 180 shift in my views. If you want I can spell out the question that started it and the conclusions I drew. But only if you catch me before I hit 15 posts or PM me. This is a hot button topic that can stir negative emotions, I'm hoping the ignore board options will appear at 15 posts at which point I'll ignore the entire set of religion boards. I'm happier w/ theism completely out of my life.

Quote from: Renee_ on September 18, 2011, 12:13:02 AM
That is an entirely different question. I think for me the key is the definition of "faith". As I said I was immersed in very fundamentalist christian beliefs. My science classes taught creationism, 6-8000 year old earth, I was taken to seminars that existed JUST to poke holes in evolutionary theory. Sciences classes spent time poking holes in evolutionary theory. I didn't really have friends outside of church/school(the same organization). It was a truly immersive experience and I believed it... what else did I have to believe? But I think my ability to make that shift hung on "faith". I understand many believers treat faith as a way to explain away things that contradict their beliefs. I wasn't taught that. Hebrews 11:1 "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Faith was taught as 1. an expectation that past experience predicts future results. The example my HS bible class teacher used. You've seen chairs hold people up, you've sat down in a chair many times and it held you up. When you sit in a chair you aren't hesitant, you have "faith" the chair will hold you up because of your experience. 2. a filler for gaps in knowledge. I was taught we don't have to know everything, what we don't know can be left to faith. Classes like science class handled arguing the evidence. I was presented with a christianity that was arguable and stood up on it's own without the need for "blind faith" to ignore "contradictions". I got online during my senior year. I used to debate w/ atheists and reasonably successfully to. Until I hit an argument I couldn't fit into my beliefs. I thought about it for months even brought it up at a Bible study(was told it was an off topic question). Since faith was never a tool for ignoring facts I finally had to yield to the argument. Once I did that the conclusions stemming from it completely unraveled christianity for me in a matter of months. It actually took me far longer to accept evolution than to quit believing god existed.

My first post covers why I don't see the change as a negative or something to cope with. This one should answer the question of how I made the complete 180 shift in my views. If you want I can spell out the question that started it and the conclusions I drew. But only if you catch me before I hit 15 posts or PM me. This is a hot button topic that can stir negative emotions, I'm hoping the ignore board options will appear at 15 posts at which point I'll ignore the entire set of religion boards. I'm happier w/ theism completely out of my life.

Kia Ora Renee,

::) From what I gather, for some 'born again atheists' it can take years to get religion out of their system completely...

So I wish you good luck and happy atheism...

Metta Zenda :)

I think religion is completely out of "my system". I was seriously ill 7 years ago and there were several nights where there was a chance I wouldn't make it through the night. I had to deal with the idea that I might really be having my last conscious thought. Not a pleasant thing to deal with, but I didn't run to religion. It's completely w/o a doubt something I no longer believe in. Religion is even mostly out of my day to day life inspite of living in the Bible belt w/ continued contact w/ my parents. However being raised in that religious did bad things to my life esp as a trans girl. And presenting the theistic with atheism tends to produce negative reactions in the vein of your first post. So even though my own mind is completely free I expect the religion around me and the bad memories will remain an irritant when it comes up for many years.

OK. I've tried to hit 15 w/o any spamming but... -15- goodbye.

Quote from: Renee_ on September 18, 2011, 01:01:12 AM
OK. I've tried to hit 15 w/o any spamming but... -15- goodbye.

Kia Ora Renee,

::) You'll be back  ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

I'm Catholic.

But if I lost God, I'd fill the void with the good and the bad aspects of humanity.

I liked the ritual but never bought the reality of it.  Later I found I could create my own rituals that were just as fulfilling.  And eventually I grew out of those.  There is beauty enough, truth enough, love enough and joy enough in the real world without having to manufacture or create it by artificial means.

I used to be an atheist a number of years ago. I didn't become one because of how others treated me, or because of hypocrisy, or my dysphoria, or anything like that. I never felt like any of those things were valid reasons to quit a belief-- if something is true it's true even if I don't like it.

It was just that I didn't believe in Christianity anymore. That was it, and I felt that good enough reason to leave.

It really hurt me though, it hurt me a lot because it had been a big part of my youth. It hurt to not have that community.

I comforted myself mainly through roleplaying religious characters in MMOs (I can play a zealot well because I used to be one), and by listening to atheist podcasts because it felt good to have my beliefs echoed by others.

I don't know what to call myself now... some kind of deist pagan I guess. My path is not yet complete, I have far more growing to do.

I've found there's always some letting go to do. 20 years ago, I "became a Buddhist", and was pretty rabid and robotic about the whole thing (because I needed a sense of belonging, and approval from others).

Since then I've needed to keep letting go of "being a Buddhist" in order to just be able to practise as a person :). I find myself more and more uncomfortable with "group practice" (in the sense of "we all do that this way, and that defines us"), as my sense of how all this works becomes more and more personal. And that's fine, I feel. I've walked into a metaphorical forest that's been with me all my life, and there's things I have to do there on my own. And it's such a relief not to be caught up in Brand Loyalty any more ;D.

My family weren't religious with my Dad actually hating religion having been born out of marriage and seeing the condemnation his Irish mother suffered. Was even the only child in my year to refuse to do 'Confirmation' as it all seemed bull->-bleeped-<- to me and even when I nearly died from Leukaemia at 18 nothing entered my mind in that respect. Very committed Communist throughout my twenties as well. There was no void at all at the time.

Things can change though.. ;)

My family was very religious
Baptist raised, church was mandatory every sunday as well as sunday school.
Went to Awana as a tyke and then eventually moved up to youth group as I got older.
But none of it ever really seemed real before to me they talked about people being happy and this and that and I looked around at all the people who claimed to be christian and most of all I looked to my parents and how happy they were but my parents would fight and argue, they didn't seem as though they were very happy unless they were out in public and more or less I just kind of fell out of the religion and lost faith in all that they forced down my throat for years and years and years.
Today what fills that "void" is Karma.
I do believe that when you wrong someone a wrong will be done unto you, and the opposite is true as well.
This has actually made the most sense to me and in my opinion proven itself again and again and again.

My family was Catholic (though not super-devout.) I went to church some and was eventually forced to have my first Communion. That was a pretty bad experience, I had to wear this overpriced dress and since I am FTM. . . yeah. It was no fun. My mother would try to scare me with stories about the devil appearing to people that I'm sure she believed but in hindsight were pretty freaky. I ended up becoming afraid of the dark again for that when I was much too old for that fear. XD It was her way of guilt-tripping me (and she really loved to try to make me feel guilty for things that weren't even problems.)

So once I realized that (to me) the religion made no sense, I felt freer. No void or anything. Seemed to me like a wild card had been removed and that's okay by me. But now that I'm really looking at it, I'd probably still be vaguely Catholic (but we never really attended church much) if I didn't have family problems. But eh, I don't think the church needs another who only uses the label for being born in a family of Catholics and who doesn't know much about it at all. The rituals always struck me as more unsettling than comforting or awe-inspiring.

This is the most I've posted in a while. XD

KFC and McDonalds helped me cope pretty well.

Quote from: xxScarlettxx on October 08, 2011, 03:24:17 PM
KFC and McDonalds helped me cope pretty well.

Kia Ora S,

::) But what if Mc D and KFC close down-then what ? 'Taco bells'  ;)

Metta Zenda :)

love and kindness

I have discarded the concept of God as unneccesary over the last week or so.

I really don't have a void to fill. In a process similar to the quantum cosmology,  and self-organising chemical and other structures that led me to that conclusion, things just pop in and out of existence spontaneously.
Meanwhile I get on with my life, and if I have any deeper questions I seem to be able to cope with them by applying the principles of the philosophy of General Semantics.

The end result is an all pervading sense of happiness and liberation; without any guilt or fear of judgement.

Karen.

recently
i wet insane
but it was in a sane world
so it was safe
but if you go uniquely insane
truly
in an already insane world
that sucks
for everyone
im glad the universe is regaining sanity
i just wana live a chill live, i wanna do honest work but not stupid
bull->-bleeped-<-, thats set up like busy work (that trees died for because it involves paper)
like every student in class
thats why i dropped out
i'de like to actually learn things i can use
not just submit to beauracracy
because thats empty
and it could never fulfill anyone

I grew up with religion, when I was 11 my dad trained for the priesthood and I spent my early teen years in a college that taught ministers. The process disillusioned me with the business of religion and losing contact with that, the things that were said in churches seemed to overcomplicate the world. I began to feel that the world made less sense if presided over by a God.

Now I have made up with the business of a religion and I see it as a legitimate and important expression of a human need, but the belief in God is no longer there. God merely makes the world make less sense to me, I prefer it streamlined.

i think it all just has to do with true love, and how loves comes over people... im sorry i've  been going on and on posting love everywhere... i love to do it, its true lol, i feel so amazing for some reason, i am glad i came back here, all of us are Love literally, in the beginning, we were Loves, everyone is a Love, and we still are everyone and everything is a Love, love a love and all our thoughts are loves and all the silences are loves

Quote from: Zenda on October 08, 2011, 09:51:28 PM
Kia Ora S,

::) But what if Mc D and KFC close down-then what ? 'Taco bells'  ;)

Metta Zenda :)

I die, it also helped me cope with social dysphoria.

I wasn't born into a crazy religious family. My family believes in God but doesn't speak about religion often. My mom I think is sort of turning into an Atheist honestly.

I was pretty religious myself though. When I was little, I told my mom I wanted to be a Nun when I grew up and I would always ask to go to church. I had a little Children's Bible and I would read it almost every night. I've been to church a couple times and I didn't mind it. When I went with my mom and step-dad it was a one time thing, and the other times I tagged along with my great-grandma and aunt who go to church every Sunday.

I don't know exactly when I lost my faith. I think I just opened up my eyes to all the bad things happening in my life and in the world. I've suffered with severe depression and I'd pray for all my problems to go away but it seemed my problems got worse. Now that I'm a pretty devout Atheist, my morals are just be respectful and kind to one another and live a happy life basically. I don't need some God to tell me what's right from wrong and control my life.

Quote from: Anatta on September 17, 2011, 12:36:07 AM
It must be very difficult to completely give up this god-centric comfort zone...

... Does it bring you a sense of 'freedom' ?

The latter. It was more of a relief for me. I always had unanswered or badly-answered questions and doubts of the religion I was raised with (Southern Baptist).

It was only scary very briefly because I'd had my head filled with fear of Hell for not having faith. In fact, it's often presented as the one and only unforgivable sin and that's how it was presented to me by my sister. She said something like if I lost faith in God for even an instant, I would be doomed to Hell. In a way, that made it okay to explore it because it was already too late. If I was wrong, oh well. Doomed anyway. *shrug*

It seems some people turn to religion for answers. For me it always kind of fell short of making sense. So when I let it go, I finally started to get answers that made sense to me. So atheism filled a void that an irrational religion created for me.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on September 17, 2011, 01:33:23 AM
I guess that sounds better than souless eternal black void.

It's not eternal at all. There's no experience of it whatsoever. It should just be like going to sleep--all your pain, worries, needs, fading away. It should be very peaceful.

As far as "prayers falling on deaf ears", I think that's just part of becoming an adult and taking responsibility for your own needs. Some people never seem ready to do that and will always look to a fictional god figure to be a sort of parental figure for them. I think people do the same thing with government. Neither really makes sense. Nature says that we only get to be children for a while and we have to eventually stop asking for our problems to be solved for us and start tackling them ourselves.

Quote from: dalebert on January 29, 2014, 11:12:10 AM
It's not eternal at all. There's no experience of it whatsoever. It should just be like going to sleep--all your pain, worries, needs, fading away. It should be very peaceful.

I don't anticipate death will be peaceful. I anticipate it will be nothing. I will never again have any of the experiences that make life wonderful.

The thought of this terrifies me and fills me up with such dread that I need to put this certain future out of my mind.

I would find a religious concept of heaven much more comforting if I could only believe in it. But no matter what way I approach the question, I always reach the same conclusion. When my mind is destroyed, so will my ability to feel anything. I would love to believe in God and Heaven. I just can't make myself do it.

Quote from: suzifrommd on January 29, 2014, 12:25:49 PM
I don't anticipate death will be peaceful. I anticipate it will be nothing. I will never again have any of the experiences that make life wonderful.

The thought of this terrifies me and fills me up with such dread that I need to put this certain future out of my mind.

I would find a religious concept of heaven much more comforting if I could only believe in it. But no matter what way I approach the question, I always reach the same conclusion. When my mind is destroyed, so will my ability to feel anything. I would love to believe in God and Heaven. I just can't make myself do it.

I feel how you do. For a while, I've had a fear of death and sometimes it keeps me up at night. I just try to enjoy life, and put it in the back of my mind.

I wish I could believe that there's life beyond death but I can't.

i was always a skeptic, then an almost fanatic christian, then i went back to being an atheist and this time i've matured so that no convincing will ever make me brainwash myself again. (yes, i've brainwashed myself because i saw everyone believing in god and thought that was the right thing. i just snapped out of it one day)

i didn't have to fill any void, but then again it happened during a 90% issue-free phase.

Quote from: suzifrommd on January 29, 2014, 12:25:49 PM
I don't anticipate death will be peaceful. I anticipate it will be nothing. I will never again have any of the experiences that make life wonderful.

The thought of this terrifies me and fills me up with such dread that I need to put this certain future out of my mind.

I would find a religious concept of heaven much more comforting if I could only believe in it. But no matter what way I approach the question, I always reach the same conclusion. When my mind is destroyed, so will my ability to feel anything. I would love to believe in God and Heaven. I just can't make myself do it.

Kia Ora Suzi,
Some questions to ponder: People are dying to find the answers  ;) ;D

What would it be like to go to sleep and never wake up ?

Who were "you" before "you" were born ?

When did you become aware that "you" exists ? What existed before "you" ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqtORNdfbsM


Metta Zenda :)

QuoteWhat now fills this void ?

Unwavering devotion to and worship of Portia Porcupine.

Quote from: suzifrommd on January 29, 2014, 12:25:49 PM
I don't anticipate death will be peaceful. I anticipate it will be nothing. I will never again have any of the experiences that make life wonderful.

Nietzsche philosophized that life was suffering. In that sense, non-existence is Heaven for all practical purposes. I don't mean that the non-existence after death will be peaceful. There is no experience of it so it isn't anything. You would only experience the approach of death. There are a lot of accounts that imply a person experiences a tremendous euphoria as their brain is running out of oxygen. Maybe once death is nigh inevitable and there's no avoiding it anymore, one starts to realize that all pain and suffering is about to end.

Two slices of bread and whatever you happen to like on a sandwich 8) Void filled

When I realized I was an "Athiest" (< not big on labels but w/e), I started filling that void with research. I would get deeply imbibed into a vast amount of different topics and relearn everything I had thought I learned prior to as a "Christian". With my religious blinders sitting next to my rotary phone and beeper, I was able to genuinely re-asses this cruel and yet so amazing world through my very own eyes not my parents... I'll explain...

I feel that most people do NOT choose their own religion, they just inherit it from their parents and them from theirs and so on and so on. So the key concept is humans are naturally shaped and moulded from childhood and parenting techniques. Whether right or wrong it doesn't matter.  I think that this "Just is". I could be wrong, maybe I am. I hope so, because I could fix myself and improve my assessment again. <<< Actually, that's the whole idea... lol

Just my own feelings. I never liked seeing parents tell their children who are naturally trying to learn and develop say things like "Because I said so"! in response to something as simple as "Why"?
I also find that children should not have any religion pushed on them from an early age. Religion is very serious stuff, right? Heaven, Hell, Damnation, Eternity... It's very serious, serious like most people have died in it's name, right? So why are we as parents teaching things of this seriousness to a child who is about to go watch Hello Kitty Island Adventure afterwards? I believe it's simple brainwashing of society and it mostly promotes a never ending cycle of idiocracy. It's personal, and it's something that one should discover with an open, learning mind and viewed through their own eyes, not a bias, obstinate view forced through by their own opinionated parents. Because let's face it... (Just an example), If big ole billy-bob Christian Rob were born in Thailand, odds are he'd be practising Buddhism while driving a bhat bus around chang mai. Same if our Christian Rob was born in the fine city of Tehran, he's probably gonna be that pretty devout Shiite Muslim. Again, these views are mine and mine only. They are not right, I hope they're not wrong, they're just mine.

I simply find myself undoing everything I thought I had properly learned before but through someone else's perspective...

Here I am Rambling again... Sorry people. lol I do that sometimes.

p.s.

I do not hate anyone's religion or culture. I actually love learning about them and our world. I appologize in advance if my meaningless words have offended someone by them. However, I'd be fibbing if I wasn't flattered by someone actually taking this too seriously. lmao

Quote from: Sona~TS on January 29, 2014, 11:16:42 PM
I never liked seeing parents tell their children who are naturally trying to learn and develop say things like "Because I said so"! in response to something as simple as "Why"?

And that goes beyond just religion. That's lazy parenting. A child's mind starts off unbiased and objective. When a child is asking "why", that should be a reminder for us to ask ourselves the same thing.

QuoteI also find that children should not have any religion pushed on them from an early age. Religion is very serious stuff, right? Heaven, Hell, Damnation, Eternity... It's very serious, serious like most people have died in it's name, right? So why are we as parents teaching things of this seriousness to a child who is about to go watch Hello Kitty Island Adventure afterwards?

I think you answered your own question. If you believe eternity is at stake, this life is irrelevant. Let's say a person manages to live 120 years. 120 divided by infinity is zero. That's how long this life is. If your life is miserable and you don't explore anything or ask any questions about anything and don't spend any effort on obtaining any knowledge other than your parent's religion and how you need to live your life in order to get into eternal heavenly after life, that's fine. The after life matters so much more than this one.

What's actually true about objective reality matters. The discussion/debate matters. If there's an eternal afterlife of pure happiness, it's extremely important that we live our lives a certain way. If there's not an afterlife, it's extremely important that we live our lives a certain (different) way. The fact that these are serious subject is the reason why religion is such a controversial subject. People feel strongly about these things because the stakes are very high either way.

And it's also why I understand why really serious discussion of religion or politics doesn't really belong here. There are probably better forums for having these debates. Those heated debates can distract this forum from it's more important purpose as a safe place for discussing trans issues. I'm in an ongoing debate just like that with someone on another forum that's much broader in scope for several days now. Somehow we've managed to keep it quite civil but I assure you I would not debate it the same way here.  :)

QuoteI also find that children should not have any religion pushed on them from an early age. Religion is very serious stuff, right? Heaven, Hell, Damnation, Eternity... It's very serious, serious like most people have died in it's name, right? So why are we as parents teaching things of this seriousness to a child who is about to go watch Hello Kitty Island Adventure afterwards? I believe it's simple brainwashing of society and it mostly promotes a never ending cycle of idiocracy. It's personal, and it's something that one should discover with an open, learning mind and viewed through their own eyes, not a bias, obstinate view forced through by their own opinionated parents. Because let's face it... (Just an example), If big ole billy-bob Christian Rob were born in Thailand, odds are he'd be practising Buddhism while driving a bhat bus around chang mai. Same if our Christian Rob was born in the fine city of Tehran, he's probably gonna be that pretty devout Shiite Muslim.

I agree. It took me a long time to admit I was agnostic. The reason it took me a while was fear, who wants to burn in hell for eternity? In the end, it was this very idea (and Deuteronomy  :o) that made me leave the church. I am very spiritual, but just not religious. My kids are aware of religion, they've had some exposure to it. But I want them to figure things out for themselves, like I ultimately did.

I've come to the conclusion we have a purpose and we will experience another consciousness again and again, always have and always will. It's just what the universe has designed. Who designed the multiverse? Who the heck knows??  ;)

If we look at the writing of Samuel Johnson, we would get the suggestion that the void is always there. He talks about how a great many of human endeavours are there to 'fill the vacuities of life', or translated out of Johnsonese - fill the emptiness of life.

It's just as plausible that the emptiness of life created God and spirituality to fill it then the absence of those things creates the hole. As such, we then fill it with family, friends, interests and personal projects. We dissipate our lives in these things until our lives end, and maybe in doing so, we have helped others fill theirs.

Quote from: Nikko on January 30, 2014, 04:23:38 PM


I've come to the conclusion we have a purpose and we will experience another consciousness again and again, always have and always will. It's just what the universe has designed. Who designed the multiverse? Who the heck knows??  ;)

Kia Ora Nikko,

"Designed" is finite, as if there was a limit to the mind's capacity...Better to think designing never stops ....

Metta Zenda :)

When you've lost God, how do you fill the void?

Send out a search party?

Quote from: V M on February 06, 2014, 12:48:17 AM
When you've lost God, how do you fill the void?

Send out a search party?

Kia Ora VM,

::) Or check at the local lost property office ;)....


Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Anatta on January 29, 2014, 10:02:28 PM
Kia Ora Suzi,
Some questions to ponder: People are dying to find the answers  ;) ;D

What would it be like to go to sleep and never wake up ?

Who were "you" before "you" were born ?

When did you become aware that "you" exists ? What existed before "you" ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqtORNdfbsM


Metta Zenda :)

Those questions make me think of one of my favourite poems, by Edgar Allan Poe.

A Dream Within A Dream

Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow-
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand-
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep- while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?

Maybe that's all we really are. A dream within a dream.

Quote from: Sephirah on February 06, 2014, 07:14:14 AM
Those questions make me think of one of my favourite poems, by Edgar Allan Poe.

A Dream Within A Dream

Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow-
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand-
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep- while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?

Maybe that's all we really are. A dream within a dream.

Kia Ora Sephirah,

And so it may seem
tis just a dream within a dream.

But a thought one must keep
"who" is it that's asleep ?

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Keaira on September 17, 2011, 02:44:26 AM
I've had God shoved down my throat since I was in school. I think Christianity might have been a pretty pure and noble faith at one time, but now, Its full of hypocrisy and has just become a cult with more members. Did I believe in god at one time? perhaps. I know as a child I prayed to not be a boy. Maybe God is out there and testing me. But I've had to fight for so much in my life that I'd almost resent God if he, or she, were to grant that wish now. So my faith now is in myself. I've put my faith in others and been hurt and let down to often.

I can definitely relate to that entire statement! But, to answer the question that this topic is asking...I didn't "lose" a 'god.' I gained knowledge and understanding that the real world is the only thing you can truly believe in. I now solve my own problems, and take care of myself, instead of praying to an imaginary person in the sky that has never done anything to help me before in my life, especially when I needed it most. It works very well, and I am stronger for it. So...there is no void. Never was. There was only understanding and strength.

Again back to the original title topic.  I don't have a void to fill after removing god.  It is a superfluous concept to my being.

AS in a movie, that I had seen a long time about a mayan tribe fleeing another mayan tribe, Yul Brynner playing a native American chief told the mayan chief that you don't have to sacrifice a human life just look around you then you will see ALL the things God created. You don't have to believe in any of the organized religions of the world, Just believe that the creator loves you and wants to see that you will always be loved by the creator. In this world you can concentrate on family or friends who love you to fill the void that you feel. When things go very bad for me I can say to myself. There's no such thing as a God. But i end up surviving somehow than I thank God.

Who Knows (Or who cares)if God is woman or man. AS far as I know no one has seen God. Accordingly to the Bible, Moses only saw a burning bush.

I'm a fallen angel and feel hard. on a serious note, i believe there is something bigger than us but what that is our ability to continue to advance and grow. i believe its our brain and intelligence and our life expierences that is god so with that, what keeps me going, on some days, is that ability to say "hey, i can do this but i need to push just a little more" though in my exhaustion, it tends to fail

Quote from: dalebert on January 30, 2014, 11:17:49 AM
What's actually true about objective reality matters. The discussion/debate matters. If there's an eternal afterlife of pure happiness, it's extremely important that we live our lives a certain way. If there's not an afterlife, it's extremely important that we live our lives a certain (different) way. The fact that these are serious subject is the reason why religion is such a controversial subject. People feel strongly about these things because the stakes are very high either way.

This pic seemed like a good follow-up to something I said earlier in this thread.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FRpjUV1d.jpg&hash=bee735542b6e1d276d8b84eae444aee598dce0a0)

Well I guess I am a thietic athiest or athietic theist. I just really don't believe God has much to do with us and every little detail of 7 billion some odd lives. Even though I do believe in creation, I also believe in evolution. I believe that prayers that seem to be answered comes from our own minds and finding answers through concentration and not from a devine power. I don't believe that devine power cures illnesses but those "miraculous" cures that people see as devine is actually the miracle of the body to heal itself and the mind believing so strongly. I believe in Spirituality by way of consciousness and that when I die my body will rot, but possibly my consciousness may go on to wherever or whatever. Who or what God is, I haven't a clue but I do believe in some sort of devine power but uncomprehensible at this time. I just can't believe the old man in the sky god so many religions cling to. I haven't ever had my main prayer answered so I guess I am not heard but there are ways to go about it though so it is answered by me and my wishes.

How I fill the void if there is one, I don't, I just let it be because sometimes we need a great big void to make room for something else.

Quote from: Emmaline on June 05, 2014, 02:18:51 AM
Again back to the original title topic.  I don't have a void to fill after removing god.  It is a superfluous concept to my being.

Indeed. For those of us who never saw any value in religion, the question has a surreal quality.  The only answer I could give would approximate "The fish" but it's interesting to see the answers of those who it's really directed at.   

It's funny I had a moment at about the age of 10 when all my beliefs disappeared in a matter of seconds. My stepmother tried to get my brother and I infected with Christianity and succeeded for a bit (From the age of 6) but in all honesty I never really knew that other religions existed as well.... It actually happened in Sunday school. The issue of "false religions" came up which included pretty much everything other than Christianity. Or preacher pretty much said that humanity had about 5000 different religions before we matured enough to realize that only Christianity was a true religion.... The statistics got me thinking. If we had thousands of other religions then 2 options remained... They are either all wrong or only one of them is correct, but if so, why are we so sure only one is correct??? I was about 10 at the time so that was the starting point coupled with the creation story with which my problem was that we are the center of the universe and we are so important, then why bother making different galaxies? I thought it would be time consuming to manage all of them with all the stars. My older brother was shocked but told me he didn't buy any of it but didn't want to say anything to me or anyone else.

Didn't have the need to fill the void. I felt free and relieved when I realized big brother was not watching over my shoulders planning to punish me for my thoughts. At that age it's not hard to make people believe pretty much anything. Then another blow came when my step mother sent to a therapist in hopes it would bring us closer together and she happened to be Catholic too who believed that a 10 y/o having an imaginary friend is ill, but praying to a God at age 50 is cool. I was very pissed about it but of course decided to keep my mouth shut. 

I have finally come to the conclusion that there is no god... years as a fund. Christian, was slowly loosing faith, thought of myself as a deist, now consider myself a full blown atheist.  Void? actually feel releaved. Perhaps filling it with science :) 

Hugs
Zaria :)

I feel like I've replied here before, or to something very similar, but it looks like I haven't.

I lost my faith when I was a young teenager, and I took it very hard. I started trying to scrabble my belief back together when I was ten and felt it slipping, and I sought out church leaders and I read the bible, and I prayed a lot. By the time I was 11 I was getting in trouble for asking questions at church. They were not smart-alecky gotcha questions like you hear from college philosophy majors, just earnest attempts to make sense of the logic of what we were being asked to believe. By the time I was 12 I didn't have any belief left in me, and I was very angry. I felt tricked. I hated my denomination for awhile, and I spent most of my teens feeling that all religion was evil and unfair and too powerful etc etc. I got over the grudge, but it took years.

I don't remember ever feeling that losing god and jesus left a "void" of any sort. The problem I had was that I had to start over manually on building an ethical framework that I could use as I went about the rest of my day-to-day life. The cool thing about religion is that it gives you all these rules and expectations, and I thrive on that kind of structure. I replaced that with an overly-uptight and rigid humanist ethical framework, but I'm still working on it.

there were times i tried and  say there was a god just so i could find something to fill the void but every moment, it hurt even more because God was just a concept of mind to me thus i threw it all away and never looked back. people still say "you should thnx god, or god with be with you." i find these type of comments offensive actually o:

Many atheists lead to a spiritual sense of being. Like a Wholeness of the energies of the universe. This makes sense as we are basically all the same star stuff. Check out Quantum Entanglement for a pretty neat concept to check out. Depending on an extraterrestrial being to be listening while simultaneously caring about prayers of every human on the planet seems a bit foolish.

I think people are afraid of being alone. Once god is gone, it's a bit lonely. It means you have to forge relationships where you can speak your mind, and be loved for the real you.
I mean, if something bad happened, I would cry on my wifes shoulder, if I was worried about something, I would share my concern with my Daddy and also will good energy towards the issue (simply saying it or thinking it is enough). People should be able to fill some of those roles for you and the rest you fill in yourself.

Losing my faith came along with realising that I was transgender and attracted to men.  My community was traditional and a little conservative, and I couldn't see how any true deity could engender such criticism in people of me for simply being who I am. 

I don't think I had any need to replace God with anything. I find meaning elsewhere.

Do I believe in a god, have I "lost" one? Sort of. I certainly do not believe in an omnipotent, cosmic consciousness (as in line with traditional western theist conceptions). But if I slightly readjust the denotation of the word- "A supreme being" to "A Supremeness of being"- then I believe in many gods. I believe in the god of our collective invention, the god invoked by all the kindness and unity of humanity, and the god of my own individual creation- awoken in my deepest passions and joys. A quote to express it more concisely:

"Each man creates his own God, his own devil, his own heaven and his own hell."

Thus I do not see god as an inherent universal fixture, or as an independently sentient entity; I see god simply as an abstract concept to express the complexities and sublimities of being.

So if you've transcended the need for a physical, concretized god- simply make one, or find one inside yourself :)

December 2013 I had to give up believing. A lifetime of praying to no avail. A lifetime of guilt and shame.

I came to the conclusion (I am slow) that I needed help and I had to help myself.

There is a void and I have been learning to fill it with personal growth. I have a lot to work on and I have been doing things I never would have dreamed could happen, becoming me.

Something very interesting happened when I lost my religion, I just gave up religion, but I couldn't give up god. I just, couldn't stop believing that in that perspective. I think it's the result of having Christianity BASHED into my head for 12 years, but who knows. I left religion because by that time it seemed more like a cult that preached peace while slitting a person's throat, I didn't agree. Now I just believe that there might be a god somewhere, but since I have no proof, I don't worry about it. I don't pray, It's just nice to think that there is something watching over us, real or not.

Ironically enough, even though my half-brother and I came from a highly religious family ((Not in the bad way though.)) I came out Deist ((belief in some kind of deity but not religion)) and my brother came out fully atheist. My brother completely left religion and god for the sake of science. He loves science a lot and thinks religion is humanity's main road block to advancing in science. Me? I left because I didn't want my life to be controlled by someone or something I hadn't met, or some fake code or a hateful book. I just wanted to be happy.

However, it did leave a void. I stopped believing in heaven, in the usefulness of praying. And while I'm glad I left, those were calming things to believe in. I was a very weak person, so it scared me to think that life after death would be nothing, just darkness. That's the reason I clung to religion for so long, because it calmed me to think that life would be eternal, I just wasn't willing to change my life for that. I filled in that void somewhat by telling myself that whether it exists or not..... 'afterlife' is eternal, but I only have one life. So I'm not going to waste that one life not doing things I don't agree with, whether it's things that others tell me to or some invisible deity tells me. I just live y'know, and do my best to be happy :)

This perspective of Neil DeGrasse Tyson helps you feel whole and interconected

http://youtu.be/9D05ej8u-gU

I often come back to this video to remind myself of this fact...

Wow Olivia. Thanx for that. It brings to mind to me the old saying out of death and destruction comes life. I think therefore I am and about a million other things. Just goes to show there is a much bigger picture than what most see or can even comprehend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppyF1iQ0-dM

(Trigger warning: sexual assault/ abuse)

My background is that I was raised in a cult of personality. The church I attended was run by one person and you never questioned his judgment. On anything. To my parents, he was some sanctified interpreter that had a direct line to god. Events took place in my life that opened my eyes, primarily, the sexual assault of my sister. In that moment, I decided that even if there was a god, I wanted nothing to do with this person. I would gladly face damnation.

Where do I find solace? In my work in the world. In my writing. In the relationships that I share with other beings on this planet, albeit for a short time. I'm not afraid of the void, because in a technical sense, I came from the void (in my opinion). I wasn't afraid before I was born, so why should I be afraid to die? I'm afraid of leaving people behind, but not of the actual event itself.

Tough break.  My wife studied cult psychology for years- she told me so many horror stories and worse, how easy it is to induce a cult mentality into people.  It is literally a five step process... I was stunned.  Kudos for breaking free.

The insidious nature of religion is to weave itself into the very fabric of your life through association.  Forgiveness through christ, marriage as a symbol of god and church, rainbows as gods covenant.  It seeps in everywhere.  Morality does not spring from god.  Quite the opposite, it seems.

Removing god is just peeling the labels off everything.  Glorious day- wow, praise god! is replaced with wow!

For me it is simple you can't loose god.
But people loose there trust in religions and there stories,as the are nothing more than power groups that have there own interests. Using books that hold the (only) true story the say !
But books as we know are not that old ! Humans are on this world over 40.000 years.
What is in that books ? Stories with some truth in them ,and rules how to act like.
You must trust and honer your sister and brothers. Yep until the are born on a other place on this globe. You shall not kill your sister or brother. Yep until the are born on a other place on this globe. If your sister or brother is hungry you shall feed them. Yep until the are born on a other place on this globe. And the rule that can never be of god " obey your rulers "
So loose your religion yes, loosing god never.

Remember that in the name of god are more crimes committed then there are seconds in a year   >:(

Quote from: BlonT on July 23, 2014, 04:52:16 AM
For me it is simple you can't loose god.
But people loose there trust in religions and there stories,as the are nothing more than power groups that have there own interests. Using books that hold the (only) true story the say !
But books as we know are not that old ! Humans are on this world over 40.000 years.
What is in that books ? Stories with some truth in them ,and rules how to act like.
You must trust and honer your sister and brothers. Yep until the are born on a other place on this globe. You shall not kill your sister or brother. Yep until the are born on a other place on this globe. If your sister or brother is hungry you shall feed them. Yep until the are born on a other place on this globe. And the rule that can never be of god " obey your rulers "
So loose your religion yes, loosing god never.

Remember that in the name of god are more crimes committed then there are seconds in a year   >:(

A human does not need god to have morals. It's simple, don't do to others what you don't want done to yourself. You don't need god nor religion for that. People vary, saying a person can't loose god is like denying the existence of atheists.

Even as a theist there was a void, but when I outgrew the false god thrust upon me as a child I was free to pursue many things that were prohibited before.


Family, exercise, martial arts, drugs and alcohol have filled my void pretty well

Quote from: Xenguy on July 23, 2014, 07:07:34 PM
A human does not need god to have morals. It's simple, don't do to others what you don't want done to yourself. You don't need god nor religion for that. People vary, saying a person can't loose god is like denying the existence of atheists.

Yep. I would posit that your moral system can actually be better because it's based on the real world and not falsities. I feel I have a deeper respect for life by virtue of understanding how precious it is. I acknowledge that this is the only life we have and my ethics reflect that. Belief in an eternal afterlife of total bliss could incline one to respect death more than life. In fact, I think that happens with a lot of people. Some folk's religious views seem like a kind of death cult.

I was born Jewish, and then went through a lot of different desperate grabs at other religions when Judaism didn't feel right for me. I had such a hard time figuring out something to believe in that it was really hard accepting myself as Atheist. Overall though, it's been kind of freeing- I don't really believe in an afterlife, or anything, so realizing that I've really just got one go at this is what's probably kept me alive as of late, since I have really intense depression and suicidal tendencies. It's also been really freeing in that, hey, I've just got one go at this, so what I spend time doing should really be what I want to do with my time instead of anyone else- that's how I ended up transitioning, and that's something that's made my relationships with those around me a lot stronger, since I've been able to feel safe really choosing the people that I want in my life. For example, I no longer speak to my biological mother and most of the relatives on that side, but because of that I've been incredibly close to the rest of my family- I really appreciate them for being good to me, and standing by me, and being honest with me. Same with friends- I try not to give my time to people unless I really, truly care about them, and that's made my bonds with the friends I do have around incredibly strong. In a way, being Atheist has really made me appreciate my life and those around me and my impact on the world more than trying to be theist ever did, and I guess this is really just what's for me. So... I guess the void-filler here is those people I love and care for, and the knowledge that this is my life to do with what I wish?

QuoteIt must be very difficult to completely give up this god-centric comfort zone...

It was never really a comfort zone. I'd call it 'familiar', but the only thing making it so is the outside world making so much noise.

QuoteWhat brings you comfort, now you know/believe all your prayers have fallen upon deaf ears ?

Prayers do not fall on deaf ears if you use your divine gift of reason to subvert the need for any superstition to tell you what is right or what you should be doing. The world itself, outside of great struggles, is actually filled with the building-blocks of happiness. That which we can sense, can know, creatively embark upon, etc.

QuoteWhat do you do to cope with your apparent lose of faith ?

It's not a loss of faith, it's a gain. Faith in what is real, only scorn for the hypocrisy that chains people to outmoded behaviors and ways of relating to other people & the world around them. If you really have faith it will be evident in the way you live your life unless you are stuck in fear, which is sadly what religion excels at promoting.

QuoteDoes it bring you a sense of 'freedom' ?

Yes, namely in being free to trust in myself to carefully evaluate what is right and moral. This is at the heart of what it is to be human (let alone getting the courage to transition. Prejudice towards atheists is fairly severe, actually, because people think an atheist has no morals or code of living.)

QuoteKeep it all about how you are feeling now-coping with this lose...

You keep calling it a loss. People who 'lose' faith and would still inside like something to believe in will just go to the next religion that promises the way. Those who turn their backs to religion with eagerness and reason have everything to gain. I do not think it is about what belief system is "true" but which is aligned with your goals, abilities, propensities as a person and how you're going to use them to shape your world and experiences.

My defiance of your will to focus on "coping with this los(s)" exemplifies my will to define at least my own beliefs as much more than a "lack" of beliefs, and instead speak to what is real rather than how others want to see things. I consider a willingness to brand convention as outmoded or lacking objectivity as I continue an ever more enlightened state of being to be central to my spirituality.

Wishing you all a happy Sinday  >:-)

there is no void, and nothing lost.  all you've done is begun to think more critically and rationally about the universe.

I may have mentioned something about this before but the title and OP are somewhat loaded questions. They project things onto others that presume they've had a similar experience as the OP.

I tend to see religion as being similar to an addiction. If you have a "hole" in your life because you're missing something of substance, we have a tendency to want to fill that up. Sometimes people fill it with something unsubstantial like certain addictive substances or behaviors. It feels to me that religion is another hole-filler of sorts, and not a very healthy one. It's similar to giving yourself over excessively to fantasies and escapism. I enjoy video games and RPGs myself, but I'm very aware of not letting escapism be my entire life. To an atheist, religion is just a fantasy that people use to escape reality. I am inclined to think that letting that go is the first step to filling the hole with something of substance, like actually working on meaningful real-life goals and developing meaningful relationships; things that have meaning in the real world we live in. Build up the one life you have here in the real world. If you truly want to be whole, then that's what it takes.

It's important to acknowledge that if people were raised in a healthy manner, without delusions, they may not have holes that need filling.

I can honestly say that I don't think god was ever there to begin with. ??? Maybe just wishful thinking of something more or just something else. So the void was never really a void to begin with. I just don't see too much of anything that approaches divinity anymore. :-\

Quote from: Anatta on September 17, 2011, 12:36:07 AM
Kia Ora kind folks,

::) This is for those members who have lost their faith[in a god] and now embrace atheism...[or if not pure atheism, at lease atheistic agnosticism]

Quite a few members here were born into religious families, attending Church, Synagogue, Mosque, Temple,  etc, on a regular bases-praying to a god for guidance, assistance, forgiveness, etc... 

It must be very difficult to completely give up this god-centric comfort zone...

What brings you comfort, now you know/believe all your prayers have fallen upon deaf ears ?

What now fills this void ?

What do you do to cope with your apparent lose of faith ?

Does it bring you a sense of 'freedom' ?

Please try to answer the above question/s without venturing into an attack on those members who still choose to believe...Keep it all about how you are feeling now-coping with this lose...

Remember folks this is in the 'ATHEIST" section,[for obvious reasons] so if you're a theist, please keep this in mind if you feel incline to pass comment...

I would also like to add the last part of a PM message[which I found quite interesting and informative] sent to me by Sera [relating to another of my threads on atheism]  "Atheists believe in the 'non-existence' of God!" 

Metta Zenda :)

What void?  Not something I have ever experienced.  Nor should anyone.  The fact is, the world is far more fascinating and impressive without god.  If you explain the interesting things in the margins of reality by "god did it" thats a far more shallow world view than accepting the facts for what they are, and being fascinated by them.

I was baptized as Methodist.  That being said, when my first transgressions were revealed, my parents took me to the pastor (I was 17).  After a private very open conversation with said pastor, he was quiet before telling me that he did not need one of "your kind" degrading his church.  I felt abandoned and lost.

About a year later this same pastor proceeded to run off with his german immigrant girlfriend and abandon his 3 children and wife.  I realized at that moment that religion was nothing but empty rules for people who can not live on their own moral compass (personal view).  This was confirmed years later when my friends wife (a pastor) was terminated from her position for not divorcing her transgender husband. 

I now subscribe to the church of atheism in the ways of Penn's Sunday School podcast.  I have found more love and happiness in living life the right way the first time and not falling into the pray on Sunday, sin on Monday mentality.

Not sure which god you're talking about, but I'll get in on this. I've disliked religion for quite a long time and it's not like you're born believing so there is no void to fill. Losing an arm? Now that would leave a void. I would feel a void without science because I wouldn't have modern medicine without it. I would have died from having cryptic tonsils and getting repeated throat infections if not at birth considering infant death rates (it wasn't much better for the mother either) were so high until we discovered germs. I figured out pretty early on that praying is just usually mindful meditation or a compulsory act to manage overwhelming emotions. It's just time set aside to relax, slow down a little and use some introspection which is likely what most people are perceiving as "guidance". I've seen people use praying to psych themselves up for a big event, to have their team win the superbowl, to have their country win a war, pray to convert people, pray to make someone straight, when people can't handle the death of a loved one and need the comfort in an afterlife (I don't see why more people aren't comfortable being atheist and believing in an afterlife, my other is the only other atheist I've met who also expresses believe in the possibility). I'm not judging anyone for the way they grieve, just know there are non dogma related ways.

When a bunch of bad things happen all at once I often find myself being like "What the **** universe!?" It's that old I need someone to blame feeling that wells up inside. Its completely poop but hey, life isn't fair. You either move your buns despite the odds, or you can give up and fade away. Nobody is going to live your life for you, just friends who'll help and enemies who'll hinder. As one of my favorite quotes says: "When life gives you lemons don't make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons; what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's going to burn your house down... with the lemons! I'm going to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!".  Alright I'm done, I'm just rambling now.

I had originally written a different brick of text in response but in the end I just said forget it and went to sleep as it was getting a little late; in the morning my phone was dead and about 1/4th of the message was posted. This is the new version where I wasn't too tired to think.

Well what fills the "void" for me, even though I never was religious in the sense of believing in a god, is that I have the freedom to think what I want and believe whatever I want. That is not necessarily a 'comfortable' thing, as it puts all responsibility upon myself for my own well-being, but you have to make sacrifices for freedom of any kind.

Most of the monotheistic religions seem to have this thing about them where they treat those who believe as if there should be a sort of child-like state in which we give ourselves up to the all-knowing "parent" of the god, and find comfort in that the same way a child can be assured a parent will protect them and worry about all the things that need worrying about. Like wanting to revert back to a state of dependence where all our needs are fulfilled, and we don't have to feel uncomfortable about things. God is the "shepherd" and we are the "lambs", god is the father and we are the "children". The imagery is strongly reflected in a lot of monotheistic writings, this idea of being a child in need of a parent. And "salvation" in many of these religions seems to me to bear a resemblance to the state of being in the womb, reunited intimately with your creator and wanting for nothing. And quite a few other religions that are polytheistic toy with the idea humans need to appease far greater beings because humans are lesser beings.

If you need that state, then I can understand wanting to fill the void that being separated from your creator would create. But if you don't need to feel that, there is not much of a void to fill, nor a sense of disconnection, loss or shame.

I find it better - even if it is uncomfortable - not to want to feel helpless or revert to the desire to be protected by someone or something else. And more satisfying to think I can face up to the universe's reality and explore the nature of existence without needing that so badly it causes me to shrink from the answers I don't like.

Quote from: Anatta on September 17, 2011, 12:36:07 AM

What brings you comfort, now you know/believe all your prayers have fallen upon deaf ears ?

  The fact that I live a good life and am comfortable with my idea of what it means to be a moral person. Read Kant's categorical imperative to understand me better. I live by the simple maxim that I treat everyone the way I wish they would treat each other. To me religion is a direct contradiction to this maxim but I hold out hope that others can see the light.

QuoteWhat now fills this void ?

  Life fills it. It's all we have is life. Anything else is an unprovable lie. So live a life worth living. Saying I  had a void though is like like saying if I don't have religion then where do I go for morality? Anywhere but religion. Do I worry about the end of my life? No. None of us are going to escape this world alive. None of us.

QuoteWhat do you do to cope with your apparent lose of faith ?

  I don't think religion was a huge part of my life except when growing up. My parents are deeply religious and still are. They were mad at me for the longest time when I told them I was an atheist, but hey that's the way it goes. I suppose if I had said I was a buddhist or something else they would feel the same way as well.

  In my case, there is nothing to 'cope' from. Freedom FROM religion is way better than freedom OF religion if you get my point. I don't need a magic book or someone on a pulpit preaching and begging for money to tell me right from wrong. I know what is right and what is wrong. It's called being a reasonable person.

When the day comes and this world shrugs me off I will be as dead as a dead tree, dog or dolphin. There is no tree heaven. There is no people heaven either. There are no ghosts, demons or other things hiding in the shadows. Dead is dead. Millions of years from now I will be oil in the ground, fossil fuel for a future internal combustion engine.

QuoteDoes it bring you a sense of 'freedom' ?

Absolutely it is one of the greatest freedoms I know. Skepticism, logic and critical thinking may seem odd to a religious person, but it means I can reason things out for myself without the need for religion. I can still plod happily through this world with nothing but my wits to guide me and still live a happy righteous life.

God is the void. Everything else is filled and waiting for us to explore (by the way I neved had faith).

My doubt started when i was seven so i guess i never had a void to fill
i had to get over fear though

(Alert: This is likely one of the longest posts in the history of Susan's Place. But please bear with me, OK?)

Well, technically I am a former atheist (whole history: started out at 4 years old as Protestant Christian, became atheist at 8, became Vilaqaren at 16) but I suppose telling about the time when I was one, and how I became one, gives me the right to post here.
So, as I said, I started out as Protestant Christian. My first contact with religion in the first place was....I don't really remember what the event was exactly called, but my family never went to church or anything. Anyway, I was 4, and it was this kind of event that mainly involved singing. Or at least in theory, mostly it was the adults singing and trying to get the kids to sing along. It didn't involve any parents, however. The songs were pretty much all about God and Jesus as someone to turn to when you were worried, and things like that. Back then, I didn't really understand the concept, but I kind of liked it as according to the songs, God was a kind of like the ultimate parent and friend at the same time.


Fast forward to primary school. As it was written in the official papers that I was Protestant Christian, (and technically it still is, but that information is worthless, as the same paper also states that I am male.) I had to study religion, and back in the early grades that meant a selection of stories from the Bible. Now, that wasn't so bad, and I kind of liked it due to how easy it was. You just had to memorize some details, and you automatically got a good score with that alone. Now, as for how I became an atheist.....well, there were the sermons. A priest from a nearby church showed up and held a sermon on a Friday morning twice a month. Those sermons were among my least favourite times at school, and I wasn't alone with my opinion. It had started out as a potentially cool new thing, then quickly became old, then boring, then annoying, and soon we were at the point where we sang along with mock lyrics or tried to discuss our latest video game accomplishments without the teachers noticing. And that is how I stopped caring about God, Jesus, the Bible, or Christianity in general, and started declaring myself an atheist.
At the point I reached secondary school, the whole class was unofficially atheist, mostly because we felt that Christianity was being forced upon us. We outright envied those whose official papers stated that they were atheists, because they never had to attend those sermons or any church-related events. We had those, too. Sermons for the advent, Christmas, Easter, the beginning of summer, all held at the local church.

My opinion towards Buddhism, Jainism, Shinto and the like was more positive, as those religions were different, exotic, and I learned about them without having to believe in them. And then there were the "pagan" religions, which I (at the time, of course) thought of more as mythology than religion, not something one could believe in, but still interesting stuff that one could even look up on their spare time. We didn't really have much about those in school, it was still all very Christianity-centric in our school, though none of the teachers was a fanatic, so we could even openly voice our dislike of religious studies, and really didn't have to care about anything involving religion outside religion class. Though there was a time we pretended to be a human-sacrificing cult during recess, and somebody's fundamentalist parents tried to raise an outrage over their kid having participated in that.
Yeah, back then religion really didn't mean much to me. Religions were either something bleak and hypocritical that was being forced on me and others, or interesting, but trivial knowledge about cultures that were either dead or on the other side of the world. As such, I was an atheist, for all intents and purposes, and back then I wouldn't have traded that independence from religious rules, restrictions, fears of divine punishment and all that stuff for anything.


As I matured up, I started to realize that maybe a negative attitude towards Christianity was not exactly the right thing to think like. Sure, it was being forced upon me, but in its core, the point of all that wasn't trying to harm me. The religion's attempt to "convert" me was misguided and frustrating, but the religion as a whole didn't really deserve all that hatred I had for it. Sure, I still have some resentment towards Christianity, but that is mostly because of how it is negatively affecting the world for me and others, and not because it was being forced on me as a kid. And that resentment is not exactly towards the religion in itself, but towards the people who use it as a reason to harm others or make their life difficult.
Same thing with all other religions. I never hate the religions in themselves, and most I actually find quite interesting, but I do still have my share of hatred for the people who use their beliefs for harmful purposes.
That includes people from the religion I follow (technically, me and the majority of the religion of Sala'i Vilak are no longer in speaking terms because I tried convincing them to finally re-introduce themselves to the world and become officially recognized as a religion. That, and they didn't really respond well to my personal beliefs about our gods, or to my opinion that every single Christian in the world isn't an evil fanatic who wants to see us all burn on a stake. Well, at least I tried.) and atheists, too.


As for how I ended up choosing an obscure, virtually unknown and officially nonexistent religion over atheism, something completely new and unknown over what I had been able to rely on most of my life.....that is another story, and doesn't really belong under this topic.
Anyway, I think I'm done for the night. I really need to sleep after writing this much stuff.

From where I sit there is no evidence that gods, religions and the so called supernatural world exist with out humans.  Seems clear that some folks got it backward.  Gods didn't create us in their image we created them in ours.  In that context it might be easier to imagine people who traveled on foot, owned no books and had little recourse to consider alternatives but did engage in wholesale war and petty crimes against each other.  Crude codes of conduct, morality and law may always be needed.  What isn't needed is another unassailable and inscrutable answer delivered from on high by the latest self anointed religious leader.  Those edicts are a dime a dozen in the dust bin of history.  A pretty good clue as to their current value too;)

There is current speculation that belief in the unknown or unseen is part of our very genetic make up.  I readily await those deterministic maps of humanity but consider what is unknown and unseen to be quite beautiful without the need to posit a being who created it all. 

There is much more beyond our shiny, ephemeral lives and indeed beyond this galaxy that offer endless opportunities for discovery and wonder.

I really haven't felt the strong need to fill that void. I guess this void has been filled, by taking care of myself. And by working on enjoying this life, because as far as I'm concerned it's the only one we're going to have.

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