OK. Did we agree on a name for the sub-forum?
We also need a sticky with an explanation of how androgynous is expression and Androgyn is a gender identity.
My version in the shortest form is my usual response:
Just remember that androgynous is nothing more than a expression of appearance.
You can look androgynous and not be Androgyn
You can be Androgyn and not look androgynous
If You are Androgyn and look androgynous, you don't.
You then look androgyn. Which can have a look of androgynous, but it isn't.
I suppose the last two lines could be left off, that's pushing a change in the word Androgyn. I like it, but, it doesn't reflect everyones opinion or version of it.??
Just remember that androgynous is an expression of appearance
I should have stated above without the nothing more than.
Ativan
Well...first I think we need to explain that there's been a discussion in "Just for us" section (for Androgyn's only.) I want to say that not everyone is aware there is such a section..or how to access it.
If you are an androgyne and you'd like to visit the "Just for us" private area...please do! You just go into your profile, and in the "groups" section...sign up for the androgyne area. Admins must approve it, and then you can come into the conversation.
I think Ativan either accidentally put this here...or, wanted to open the conversation up to the more general audience. Either way...
Oh...right. The conversation. We're talking about adding a sub forum to this area. The sub forum will be "Androgynous Expression, Appearance and Style" (which may have a slightly different title...still discussing it.) and it will be a way to differentiate between the conversations we have about androgyn *identity* (here in the general area) and conversations about androgynous appearance or expression (ie: Whatcha wearing, how ya wearing it?)
Thank You! I guess I should wake up a little more with another cup of coffee.
I am also trying to generate a bigger discussion about this being a sub-forum.
Very open to others opinions...
Ativan
As they are two completely differant things, I am surprised it isn't already divided out along those lines.
As the wife of an androgyn I definatly know the differance, but they can easily be confussed and conflated with eachother by those unfamiliar with the differance.
I like to dress as normally as possible. When I say "normally", I mean "like most regular female- and male-appearance people". If it sounds offensive, I apologize.
In terms of dressing style, I'm absolutely not androgynous at all. I appear just like every "normal" male does. I do like light color (blue) but absolutely not pink or red.
May I ask why, as someone who presents androgynously, you found Ativan's statement offensive? No one wants to imply that androgynous presentation is a bad thing, simply that it is not the same as androgyne identity.
I can see why you would prefer the second phrasing.
Why would it mean anything to you Sarah7?
This is the androgyn board. Us MTF types should tread lightly here, just like we would expect any visitor to the MTF area.
I think it's worth noting, as I believe @ivan did in the OP, that you can look androgynous and not be Androgyne. A subforum about androgynous appearance will likely attract people who prefer androgynous fashion but don't identify as Androgyne in any way. Androgynous fashion matters a lot to people who prefer it and those people may have valuable contributions to the subject regardless of their gender identity.
Quote from: Sarah7 on September 20, 2011, 12:59:06 AM
A) Why would this go in the androgyn section? It has no more to do with you than any other gender.
B) Could you frame it in a way that isn't rude to people who are androgynous in their presentation? It is not "nothing more than an expression of appearance." It is part of how I express my identity as a gay trans girl. You don't have to spit on me in order to explain the distinction.
a:You most certainly can put up the same thing or something similar on other boards if you care to. What we do in our section has nothing to do with you, and vise versa.
b:You are correct, Thank you for pointing that out. I'll change it when I get around to it.
Quote from: @ivan on September 20, 2011, 10:30:36 AM
a:You most certainly can put up the same thing or something similar on other boards if you care to. What we do in our section has nothing to do with you, and vise versa.
Susan's is an inclusive place. It isn't against the TOS for people to post in areas of the forum that don't pertain directly to their identity, as long as they are respectful. In addition, many people's identities overlap; for example, a person could be both MTF and an Androgyne.
Z
Yah,...that's what I meant...
Sometimes it's hard to express things without offending someone. For me it seems to be very hard to do.
Ativan
I made a correction in the original post, before I read your response.
Nothing is perfectly clear anywhere.
The sub forum is an attempt to provide a space for people who wish to discuss things androgynous.
Your input there, I'm sure, would be appreciated.
Ativan
Androgynous Expression, Appearance and Style sub-forum is now live and on the air!
Thanks for everyone's input in the creation and naming of this new sub-forum!
Zythyra - News Admin
Thank You!
Quote from: Zoë Natasha on September 20, 2011, 10:28:09 AM
I think it's worth noting, as I believe @ivan did in the OP, that you can look androgynous and not be Androgyne. A subforum about androgynous appearance will likely attract people who prefer androgynous fashion but don't identify as Androgyne in any way.
I agree, this is why I feel it should be a subforum of the fashion board with the, erm...fashion.
Well this happened quickly.
**Rambles off to look around**
ETA: I can't find the discussion thread. *sigh* Granted, it's done, but I would like to know how/what/why :)
It's been tossed around for awhile, due to the numerous requests on being androgynous.
When it really got going, it shifted to the Just for us section under Androgyne.
Then it came back here in Androgyne Talk, for the last few days.
Ativan
Now that the AEAS sub forum is live, let me know if there are any topics that should be moved there.
Z