Waves – Hi, I'm pretty new here, but I had a question about androgynous appearance and thought it might fit on this nice new sub-forum. Have any of you ever gotten public comments about having an androgynous appearance, and if so, how do you deal with them? I'm androgyne, but I'm not exactly "out" about that fact. Some background - I'm biologically female; my normal daily wear is men's/boys jeans and t-shirt with tennis shoes and bright lipstick (because I love it). To work, I only wear dresses/skirts (I kind of treat it like playing dress up). So this evening I was at a casual after-work reception for a colleague. I didn't have work today, but wanted to wish my friend well, so I stopped by the reception as I was. Another colleague walked up to me and told me I looked "bipolar," and I must have looked surprised and managed some clever reply like mumbling "umm...excuse me?" because he immediately started to explain that what he meant was that I looked like one person from the neck down and another from the neck up (i.e. male and female). I think I just said "o well, I came directly from x,y,z and this is what I normally wear outside of work." The thing is, this the first public event I've been to since having a breast reduction from a C to A- last week. Before surgery, I had also started lifting weights to add some muscle to my upper body, so I guess with the two factors combined, I do look different. I feel like I'm finally taking concrete steps toward being ok with the way I look, but I always kind of assume other people don't really notice/care, so I was caught off guard by the comment. The fact that it was at work made it kind of awkward, but on the other hand, maybe it was just awkward for me? Still, I feel vaguely worried. For one, I live in a rural area, so I don't want to stand out too much for safety reasons. Beyond that, I guess I'm confused because I don't feel like I owe people an explanation and don't plan to come out (especially at work) about being androgyne and bi, but I also don't want to pretend like my appearance is just a fashion statement. I don't know, I'm not sure what to think. Thoughts and/or personal experiences?
Wow! I absolutely could have written this!!! Female bodied, wear mostly skirts at work, wear almost all mens clothes at home, live in a rural area and I'm headed in to get my breast reduction from DDD to C in...19 days.
However...where I differ...is I've never heard anything about my appearance. Also where I differ is that I often have a bit of facial hair showing. (I'm on T) and I've never heard anything! Mostly I think people are too polite to say anything. I live in a "live and let live" type of place so...I don't know. I have often expected to hear something about my appearance but...never have.
I think that the person who said that was out of place and had he said that to anyone else who didn't have your sensitivities...he likely would have recieved an eye roll and a "whatever".
You have every right to be put off by his comment...and he was wrong to have said it...I wouldn't read too much into what he said.
Before I went into girl mode full time, I went out with feminine-looking boy's clothes all the time, and refused to wear anything else. I looked almost exactly like my profile pic, and every day I got at least one "dude, you look like a chick".
i went to a party, and didn't made any particular effort to dress up, just look nice, some pants and a shirt and makeup.
A friend tells me, when im leaving, that more than one (undefined quantity, might have been just one) person(s) asked her if I was a boy or a girl.
It is of note that I was not approached by nobody. People are too polite. And by polite i actually mean scared of approaching people.
On the other hand, I did receive comments about my "attitude", they asked me if I am a rocker... Which i am. And I do have a "don't ->-bleeped-<- with me" attitude.
And I just want somebody to give me a hug XD
I get lots and lots of stares from little kids, and occasionally adults as well, but generally I don't get comments. Mostly it's just friends who'll comment when I dress less androgynous and more like my assigned gender. :D
One time I was binding around my parents, and my mom started awkwardly rubbing my back like she was being affectionate, but also trying to figure out what I was wearing under my shirt.
i don't really care too much what i wear in public, as long as it looks good on me, so i can take most comments on my clothing style with a smile and a "thank you". if someone said i looked half female and half male, of course i'd take that as a compliment "thanks, i just wanted to look like that today". being forced to wear uncool clothes and skirts in an elementary school where anyone would be bullied for that has made me pretty much immune to comments on appearances
my happy clothes story is from the night before my brother's wedding this summer. i wore some males wear but no binder, and the bad thing was that the clothes made me look like an american (tomboy), while the good thing was that my uncle said that was the most he'd ever seen me look like myself. the clothes were in style with my personality, and he saw it. wonder how my mom can then still think i suit cute dresses more..
I get told I look nice sometimes but the kids say I am a girl.
I dress in a pretty neutral and comfortable fashion, maybe a bit outdoorsy and not atypical for my genetic sex(male). Despite this and my moderately tall height I have an androgynous visage that gets people looking me over to figure out my 'gender' or make poorly muffled comments to whether I am a girl or a boy. My hearing is fairly sharp so I notice these things and have the urge to mess with these people as it is none of their business what I am or am not. There is a sense of satisfaction in stumping people trying to apply a binary definition to a nonbinary person, and I admit, I do enjoy it even if not deliberately.
I wonder what reactions a flock of androgynes going through a crowded place would get. I think this would be a fun social experiment. Also, what would an acceptable collective group noun (http://www.pubquizhelp.com/animals/groups.html) of androgynes be, if any? Any ideas or musings? A wandering? There is a flock of birds, a parliament of owls, a leap of leopards and soforth.
I wore a full suit this week because of HMI (Her Majesty's Inspectors.....except they don't inspect Her Majesty, just schools) and a kid of 7 years old told me as I was doing my social rounds of the lunch halls (I am often used for casual pastoral things)...
"You are kinda girl-ladyish normally but you look kinda man, but today you look like you are pretending to be a man-man." She obviously didn't have the language, but she has seen me pretty clearly.
That kid's too clever by half, put her in detention!
today my only conversation with a stranger in person went like this:
old guy "are you or are you" while doing a creepy smile
me "I dont understand"
guy "are you a girl or a boy"
me "neither" and i felt annoyed at his question.
and the store owner was like "<name of the old guy> be quiet!" and then i bought some pliers and wire.
.
.
.
Honestly, I have no idea how do i come accross.
And i would LOOOOOOOOVE to get a stroll of androgynes strolling on a crowded place
too bad there are no androgynes in where i live :<
There it is,... when you have a group of Androgyn's, it should be refed to as a Stroll of Androgyn's
or not...
Ativan
Quote from: Pica Pica on October 08, 2011, 05:15:39 PM
"You are kinda girl-ladyish normally but you look kinda man, but today you look like you are pretending to be a man-man." She obviously didn't have the language, but she has seen me pretty clearly.
Precious! ;D
An ambiguity of androgynes? A forest of androgynes?
I hear comments about my appearance all the time normally muffled, I'm sometimes approached directly I have a few standard responces. for my "not normal" appearance. I feel like I just answered this question as part of my answer to why I present the way I do. In public I'm not often aproched but when I am it Is mostly a positive experience
I work in a pub so inevitably people wonder about me and sometimes comment. I grew up in an eco-friendly family who lived naturally as they could and I have followed them, so one result is that my natural dress is a skirt and not pants, and this is what I wear at work. If I wear jeans at all, which is rare, I have girl's style ones, because these are what fit me. Since I'm a bit girl-shaped in my body I'm always being called "miss" and that's fine by me. It's at least half right. The only real comments I can remember are from children, who wonder if I'm a man or girl, and sometimes I can see them wondering.
Like I said I get people commenting all the time most of the time it is just a throw away comment. Like "show us you tits" I've had people ask if they can take my photo and I let them.
the only questions I don't answer are ones that are clearly ment to be offencive, - do you have a dick or a pussy is probably the most insulting thing I've been asked and It was shouted at me from a fair distance.
other comments I've had include.
Did you loose a bet?
I bet you get a lot of flack looking like that?
Are you breasts real? - either I say no or that I paid real money to get them like this. depending on my mood and their tone.
Whats up with that? - If said by people outside a pub then I don't reply but If I'm asked directly without feeling like they are trying to insult me then I will happily answer any question when I'm asked (Mostly by little kids if I'm a boy or a girl I always answer both one girl about 6 years old after telling her I was both while on a bus took a good look at me and said I was a girl but I should be wearing Lipstick to that I replied sometimes I do.
I like most of the comments even the not so nice ones Because It proves that I'm being seen as I am not as what the world wants me to be.
sometimes after I answer a question or agree to a photo the conversion continues and I've had a couple of girls ask for a hug which is always nice even if they are half my age.
I have been wearing all female clothes recently, but trousers, jeans (finding they fit my hips better if anything).
Yesterday was own clothes day, I wore a pair of bootcut jeans, a blue and grey stripy top and blue canvas trainers. A kid giggled and said I looked like a girl, I swished my hair and said I hoped it was a beautiful one, which had him giggling more.
Tomorrow I am again dressing up as an elf for santa's grotto.
My elf costume from last year has been taken...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm208%2Fphairrose%2FIMG_6065.jpg&hash=aed6fbcb4631df147b285fb51fe1b4c6b277c864)
So I am going to wear my red footy pyjammas and a hat.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm208%2Fphairrose%2FPhotoon2010-11-27at1428.jpg&hash=000d031406804d8643a170597c3c84fb89d91105)
So I'll raise a few smiles tomorrow.
Pica, I wish I was as cute as you. :D
Agreed with Julian.
I think most comments I get in public have to do with my actual looks. Like, I used to get a lot of people commenting on my acne when it was bad. And my weight. When it comes to actual gender presentation though, I usually just get called dyke.
Cheers,
Turned out at least one kid did notice they were ladies jeans I wore the other day, and they certainly noticed the babygro...I had a range of comments from 'stunning', 'indescribable' to 'christmas peado tellytubby'.
It was really only in grade school, middle school and highschool that I got direct "are you a boy or girl" questions. After that it was something that I would catch people having a discussion about in hushed tones type of thing. That's a pretty direct question for an adult to be asking. If I ever got it now I'd ask, "why would you want to know?"
Pica, the pictures made me smile - I've been zealously listening to headphones in the grocery store for a month now to avoid Christmas carols, but now that it's December, I'm starting to feel a little more in the holiday spirit. I've been really interested to read about everyone's experiences as well as Julian's thread about how and why people present the way they do. I've been feeling better and thinking that, in terms of the OP, I got caught off guard in an insecure moment and shouldn't let the comments bother me. I guess having surgery was kind of a big deal for me and even though I was told "it's a major change and some people feel insecure for a while afterwards" I just didn't think it applied to me (haha). It also brought up a lot of issues for me in terms of how much I really want to "pass" as one gender or the other. I got so confused that I finally decided to think of it in terms of Tinkerbell walking up to me and asking me "if I could sprinkle you with faerie dust (yay for faerie dust) and you could pass perfectly - would you want to?" to which my reply is "Absolutely - sometimes," (to either question), therefore plunking me back down in the forest where I once again am (pretty) sure I belong.
Years ago, people were constantly questioning my gender, because I presented myself as extremely androgynous.
My cousin, who was four at the time, was even extremely confused by my appearance and was unable to properly gender me. He actually didn't know if I was a "he" or a "she" up until then. Unfortunately, this was before I came out as trans, but I still knew I was, so the situation was extremely dysphoria inducing. However, causing public inquiry had its perks. Oddly enough I was read as male sometimes even then though by stranger - even people who attempted to sexually pursue me; I didn't bind at the time, and merely hid under layers and layers of clothing. Still my buxom chest was ultimately the give away - I did sound like a girl when I spoke, but some people seemed to totally disregard that. For some reason, Asians always seemed to read me as male 100% of the time, even when I was andro. Kind of a weird thing that I noticed.
Quote from: Pica Pica on December 01, 2011, 12:09:49 PM
Yesterday was own clothes day, I wore a pair of bootcut jeans, a blue and grey stripy top and blue canvas trainers. A kid giggled and said I looked like a girl, I swished my hair and said I hoped it was a beautiful one, which had him giggling more.
Pica you are too cute! :)
Cheers, a photo from that day of me putting together a santa's grotto.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi297.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm208%2Fphairrose%2FNov2011poppiesbikesnativityprep023.jpg%3Ft%3D1323367030&hash=5fc6b6f0c2db599a4c18032a378e3cb358a06c2e)
You kind of remind me of a blonde version of my brother in that picture, Pica.