Well, my S.O. has seen her first bit of discrimination against people who wish to live outside of the normal gender divide.
We went to a cookie cutter hair place on Tuesday ($10 haircuts), mostly for her but she said she wanted me to get my hair cut also. She said I would look good with layers and wanted to have it feathered back instead of the "you haven't cut your hair in 5 years" look. My hair comes down to the middle of my shoulder blades dry and below when it's wet, outside of a widows peak I haven't lost much hair yet.
We ended up each getting our own lady to do the work and when mine asked me what I wanted my S.O. told her what to do. Right away my stylest said "can't do that. HE (was a bit snotty about that) would lose to much hair and wouldn't be able to tie it back anymore." I told the lady "oh that's OK, just clean up the split ends" and 6 snips later I was out $10.
The lady working on my S.O. took her back to get a shampoo and I went outside to smoke. Once she was done and we got back into the car my S.O. said her stylest said that was wrong and I had more then enough hair to do just about anything I wanted. My S.O.'s stylest even said she would bring it up with the manager.
My S.O. couldn't believe it though. I had told her in the past that these things will happen to me all the time if I choose to transition and I just have to live with it. She hasn't spoken to me about it since then but I know it's on her mind. She hasn't ever experienced that kind of discrimination before let alone have it happen to me right in front of her eyes.
I would have loved to get something done to my hair, but with how I have to present myself in public it most likely would have caused issues. So, no hair off my... Oh wait... I kinda want the hair off my chest.
Nvm.
That is really messed up, but no surprising at the same time. I can appreciate the need to keep up appearance in public. I work full-time and can't afford to loose this job. Because of my hours, I'm lucky to not pretend to be a guy maybe a couple days a month. It sucks to have to go through that, but I can appreciate the stoic attitude you take. There are many things we can't control, but how we allow ourselves to deal with situations, is one.
I had a similar experience at a local hair place but was alone at the time... Not sure why, but they've been out of business and the the place has been up for lease for a few years now... Perhaps I wasn't the only one to get mistreated there
My sorry, but I have to be a bitch here. You are paying that tramp to cut your hair your way, not listen to her lip. Report her to the manager and DEMAND a refund or TWO, yes two free cuts. That or lose their license.
Quote from: Irish Janet on September 27, 2011, 11:05:16 PM
My sorry, but I have to be a bitch here. You are paying that tramp to cut your hair your way, not listen to her lip. Report her to the manager and DEMAND a refund or TWO, yes two free cuts. That or lose their license.
She's right.
Is it a family business? That's what it sounds like, most of the cutters don't even have a license...
at least that's in my poor ghetto area lol.
Still, you had an oppurtunity to make a scene and get a refund for their horrible service, you might have a chance to bring up your dilemma to the manager if you go back tomorrow.
I have been terrorized by salon people one too many times when specifically asking to get "about a half inch" off and 15 minutes later a year of hair growth will be gone. Last trim I got was actually a trim, fortunately, though it was more than I asked to have taken off still. I am wary about getting my hair cut again before I am full time because I just don't trust stylists to not go crazy and keep it long. I am just extra careful to not cause any split ends.
Once you are paying for a service you control it.
I would totally complain to the manager, to the franchisees. the lot. I would go as far as threatening to sue.
I apologise for this but was the person rude to both of you or to the 'TG' partner only? In which case it is blatant sexual harassment.
Cindy
Quote from: Cindy James on September 28, 2011, 05:06:45 AM
Once you are paying for a service you control it.
I would totally complain to the manager, to the franchisees. the lot. I would go as far as threatening to sue.
I apologise for this but was the person rude to both of you or to the 'TG' partner only? In which case it is blatant sexual harassment.
Cindy
I wouldn't say she was rude (well, outside of not wanting to do the hair cut) except for the emphasis on HE (meaning me) would lose to much hair, but she kept the conversation to a "professional" level when it came down to cutting my hair after she "suggested" that the hair cut wouldn't work. In total I'd say I spent 5 minutes in the chair, most of the time was spend recommending a defining cream to help keep my hair from getting wild on me through out the day. There was no small talk or smiles, after hearing about people losing a lot of hair during just a trim I'm at least glad she didn't go all Chuck Norris on my length though.
Before I was passing, I lost a year of growth due to an hairstylist deciding for herself I was better off with a masculine haircut. That is the reason I went full time with shortish hair.
I suppose we have to be very careful with our hairstylist choices.
That's terrible! Your paying her to cut it the way you want! What is it her business how you want it, she's getting paid. She should just do her job and get paid and not let her opinions get in the way! If iit ended up too short to tie back oh well, you asked for it!
so sad, many stylists are good people and those kind give all a bad name.
Don't be a victim. Don't just let someone discriminate against you without a word. Sure, if your safety is an issue, be smart.... but, otherwise, make them think twice before they decide to pull something like that again.
You don't deserve to be treated that way...so DEMAND better.
Quote from: Rabbit on September 28, 2011, 08:14:07 PM
Don't be a victim. Don't just let someone discriminate against you without a word. Sure, if your safety is an issue, be smart.... but, otherwise, make them think twice before they decide to pull something like that again.
You don't deserve to be treated that way...so DEMAND better.
I remember about 10 or 11 years ago I went to one hairdresser I wasn't happy with so I just walked out before they started cutting my hair. When you go to hairdressers you need to be the person in control at all times. After all you are paying them to do a job therefor they should be doing the work exactly the way you want it done. If they don't comply just walk out! you have every right to do so.
Well I would see the manager about it, but fortunately she didn't "mis-cut" . I have always liked to try and get away with longer hair before I told my mum (now she doesn't fight it when I say I'm growing my hair out) but I have experienced where I said I wanted a trim so that the hair grows out more stylized manner, the lady then proceeds to cut my hair but at the end I when I get up to see the handy work... most of my hair was gone, and she tells me shes sorry but she "misc-cut" and then fixed it so that it'd still grow out ok. from 4.5 inches in the back roughly 2 -_-
Well in my case, I only noticed she was cutting too much of my hair once it was too late. I ended up with a good cut, but too short and masculine. I don't quite pinpoint it to discrimination in my case, since I was presenting as a guy and she did give me a good male haircut.
Of course, I had specifically asked for her to NOT cut it short >:(
Anyway, I just didn't go there again, My current hairstylist rules so it worked well in the end.
We went to a cookie cutter hair place on Tuesday ($10 haircuts)
That was your first mistake. You get what you pay for. Good stylists make 3 to 4 times that, great ones even more. Hell my barber charges almost twice that.
Quote from: tekla on September 29, 2011, 01:25:03 PM
We went to a cookie cutter hair place on Tuesday ($10 haircuts)
That was your first mistake. You get what you pay for. Good stylists make 3 to 4 times that, great ones even more. Hell my barber charges almost twice that.
well not to derail the topic at hand but I don't believe things are always judged by pricing, true it'sa indication but not the end all be all of if something is good or bad, I get charged 8-12 on my cuts and the women there does a great job. While I have spent 25 on a cut that was fairly simple an the person still managed to screw up the side.
I tend to have good experiences with better quality salons. I'm not sure why, but people there tend to be much more open and understanding whether I'm in girl or boy mode.
Quote from: Bird on September 29, 2011, 01:03:26 PM
Well in my case, I only noticed she was cutting too much of my hair once it was too late. I ended up with a good cut, but too short and masculine. I don't quite pinpoint it to discrimination in my case, since I was presenting as a guy and she did give me a good male haircut.
I suppose you have less of a case if you are presenting as male and get a male haircut?maybe you should try presenting as female instead? and then you might get a more feminine cut!
I'm in a middle place here, not 100% full-time (work) so I have to maintain the "HE" hair cut regs, it's on the longish side so I can do bangs and a little spike on top but my super rides my rear sometimes about it LOL
I used to try to ask for feminine cues for years without actually asking for them...never had anyone make a point of being rude like that but my intentions were always misconstrued because it always ended up very short and masculine. Not being direct was my problem though. Next time I'd recommend talking to the hairdresser about exactly what you want to suss them out before they do anything and if they're not happy to do it just go somewhere else. As was suggested, that might mean going to a better salon but if you straight out tell them you want a ladies haircut and why you'll either get what you want (and feel great about it) or they might be rude and turn you down but that's still better than denying yourself a little bit of expression. I actually came out to my hairdresser after I'd seen her a few times and she was a bit taken aback but more than happy to try to give me what I asked for, and happy that I'd start getting all the colour treatments and pay more...she even helped me get the hang of makeup :)
@Naturally
I went full time since then, that was quite a while ago. :)
maybe i am reading the opening thread post wrong, but did you feel discriminated because she said "HE" or because she only trimmed your hair?
If it's cuz she said "He" i would ask some questions. How did you present your gender when walking into the salon? If you were obviously dressed as female gender presentation then yes i would assume it is discrimination. If you were in there presenting androngenous or male gender presentation then that may be another story. I was not there so I don't know "the behind the scenes."
If it was about the hair it could be that she is just a poor hair stylist. If someone trimmed my hair if I wanted it to be feathered I guess I wouldn't think of it as discrimination. Just poor instructional skills and then request to get it cut right.
My shrink told me about a stylist that runs a LGBT friendly shop. He's very very good and even does makeovers. He's in Easton PA.
Maybe we need a list of friendly stylists like the list of surgeons.
I tend to have good experiences with better quality salons. I'm not sure why, but people there tend to be much more open and understanding
Though it's not an absolute, it's still solid enough to use as a rule of thumb, that such things are pretty much true across the board. It's why you get treated better at Macy's or Nordstrom's than at WallMart.
I tended to have the opposite problem. I'd go in asking for a masculine cut, describing what I wanted, and somehow I always ended up with a girl-tastic pixie. So I just started cutting my own hair. Saves me money, time, and stress.
Quote from: Annah on September 30, 2011, 09:11:53 AM
maybe i am reading the opening thread post wrong, but did you feel discriminated because she said "HE" or because she only trimmed your hair?
If it's cuz she said "He" i would ask some questions. How did you present your gender when walking into the salon? If you were obviously dressed as female gender presentation then yes i would assume it is discrimination. If you were in there presenting androngenous or male gender presentation then that may be another story. I was not there so I don't know "the behind the scenes."
If it was about the hair it could be that she is just a poor hair stylist. If someone trimmed my hair if I wanted it to be feathered I guess I wouldn't think of it as discrimination. Just poor instructional skills and then request to get it cut right.
That's the thing that makes me not want to march right in there and say WTF noobz?!?!
When I walked into the salon I was presenting as male, none the less the other stylist was like OMG I'm sooo sorry, she shouldn't have said it wouldn't work.
Yeah, it sucked that I couldn't get my haircut the way I was expecting and even worse I spent $10 for 6 snips (though I wouldn't have been able to do it myself and have it look straight).
Quote from: Wolfsnake on September 30, 2011, 12:52:59 PM
I tended to have the opposite problem. I'd go in asking for a masculine cut, describing what I wanted, and somehow I always ended up with a girl-tastic pixie. So I just started cutting my own hair. Saves me money, time, and stress.
I have an electric clippers that I had been using for a while to give myself a buz cut, even at $10 on Tuesdays spending that kind of money to have someone do something I can do myself seems like a silly way to spend $10.
Quote from: LivingInGrey on September 30, 2011, 01:01:03 PM
That's the thing that makes me not want to march right in there and say WTF noobz?!?!
When I walked into the salon I was presenting as male, none the less the other stylist was like OMG I'm sooo sorry, she shouldn't have said it wouldn't work.
Yeah, it sucked that I couldn't get my haircut the way I was expecting and even worse I spent $10 for 6 snips (though I wouldn't have been able to do it myself and have it look straight).
I have an electric clippers that I had been using for a while to give myself a buz cut, even at $10 on Tuesdays spending that kind of money to have someone do something I can do myself seems like a silly way to spend $10.
I can certainly relate to your frustration as I had some pretty craptastic hair stylists in my day but I would not necessarily label that as discrimination. I would probably call it "a poor hair stylist."
If I were you and since another stylist noticed you didn't get what you asked for, I would have asked to speak to a supervisor and had them finish your cut....or just say "eh, Ill need more than 6 snips to get what I want....if you are not able to feather my hair, then lemme see a stylist who can."
It's not too late. You can call over there and speak with a supervisor. Discuss with them the situation and see what they can do for a free haircut. I bet they will give you the haircut plus the feathering without charge.
It's possible that this person may have been sincere about not having enough experience to do that kind of a cut on a guy, but there was still hurt feelings (both myself and my S.O.) the way she said HE would lose to much hair when she recommended not doing a cut like that.
Just gave me the feeling that she didn't want to do it because I was a guy and in her little world I wasn't allowed to have a haircut like that.
Quote from: LivingInGrey on September 30, 2011, 01:09:34 PM
It's possible that this person may have been sincere about not having enough experience to do that kind of a cut on a guy, but there was still hurt feelings (both myself and my S.O.) the way she said HE would lose to much hair when she recommended not doing a cut like that.
Just gave me the feeling that she didn't want to do it because I was a guy and in her little world I wasn't allowed to have a haircut like that.
I know that pronoun sucks for us. Lord knows I would utterly hate it if someone called me a "he." But before I transitioned, I got feather cuts a lot....and at that time I identified as a straight male. I'm just playing devil's advocate and I wasn't there....i mean she could have totally be discriminating at you. But there may also be a small possibility that she wasn't and it just came across that way.
Nevertheless it sounds like a very untrained person. Sounds like you got this done as Super Cuts or Fantastic Sams or something! I would still call over there. I bet they will get you a free haircut if you talk to the manager :)
I bet they will get you a free haircut
Does a second crappy haircut cancel out the first crappy haircut? What makes you think the second one would be any better?
Quote from: tekla on September 30, 2011, 01:25:05 PM
I bet they will get you a free haircut
Does a second crappy haircut cancel out the first crappy haircut? What makes you think the second one would be any better?
Yeah... I'm just glad she didn't go all Edward Scissors hands on me. Places like that are like going to McDonald's once every few years. You just have to remind yourself every now and then that they still suck.
Quote from: tekla on September 30, 2011, 01:25:05 PM
I bet they will get you a free haircut
Does a second crappy haircut cancel out the first crappy haircut? What makes you think the second one would be any better?
If she had a manager do it and it was through a complaint that originally prompted the first haircut then she may get a haircut this time around that is better than six snips.
Maybe, and of course maybe the manager is managing because they don't like/or don't want to cut hair anymore. Any time you're climbing up the ladder you're getting less. You know: Those who can't do teach, those who can't teach teach gym, those who can't teach gym do student services, and those who can't do student services administrate. Which means that in any given school the person who knows the most, and works the hardest, and does the most good - is the janitor.
Years ago long before transitioning I was job hunting and needed a hair cut... I didn't have much money so I nervously went to one of those $5 mall cuts places fearing the worst :o So the receptionist brings me over and tells me "This is ________ from____________ she's brand new here" *GULP* Just what I needed to hear :P Then the lady tells me that I am her first American customer
To my surprise, it was one of the best hair cuts I'd ever gotten :) I continued to go to her regularly for about two years and she kept progressing to more expensive salons until I could no longer afford her :laugh:
I guess it's kinda luck of the draw, but if you find someone that does a nice job, stick with them :)