Well i'll try and make a long story short - a tg friend of mine committed suicide last night. I first met her at my local support group (which i no longer go to), we had alot of the same interests so we became friends pretty quick. I got a text from her really late last night it said " Hey...thanks for all your help and for being my friend -xo" it was really late and i was half dead (asleep) so i didn't txt her back. I found out from my therapist that she took her own life late last night, no suicide note nothing.
I've been crying all day thinking about her, she had so much going for her transition wise. She was only 21 years old, naturally beautiful, and already had a passing female voice. I remember her saying "i don't want to be a transsexual, i want to be a girl...i feel like a girl" at one of our group meetings.
What is your opinion on suicide, do you think it's an easy way out or maybe it's the only way out for some? Discuss :'( :-\
How about finding out my brother commited suicide at the ago of 20. He was found dressed in girls clothes. Many more things came out after that. I never told him(her) about me out of fear just to find out she was going through the samething as me. We did not even know we both were born this way. As for you and everyone else here at susan's are my brother and sisters now. Not wanting to be something does not change things. A week before she died I thought about calling her. I didn't. That is all I thought about for years. I felt like I let her down that I could have been there for her if I was open to her. I can't with her but I see her here going through samethings. Needing help. Needing to just know she is loved for who she is.
I am sorry for your loss.
I am very sorry to see the loss of your friend.
It's a shame that some are made to feel that's the only way out.
If you or anyone you know is considering suicide there are people to talk to that help:
In Australia, call Lifeline on 13 11 14
In the United States, call the Suicide Prevention Lifeline on 1 800 273 8255
In the UK, call Samaritans on 08457 90 90 90
In the Republic of Ireland, call Samaritans on 1850 60 90 90
For those in other nations visit http://www.befrienders.org/ (http://www.befrienders.org/)
Even if you're not suicidal and just need someone to talk to you can ring the above numbers 24/7.
For some, it does seem like the only way out. They need help.
I don't agree that it is an easy way out. Ideas like that only further harm and alienate those who were and are suffering.
Quote from: Forever21Chic on October 12, 2011, 01:15:23 AM
Well i'll try and make a long story short - a tg friend of mine committed suicide last night. I first met her at my local support group (which i no longer go to), we had alot of the same interests so we became friends pretty quick. I got a text from her really late last night it said " Hey...thanks for all your help and for being my friend -xo" it was really late and i was half dead (asleep) so i didn't txt her back. I found out from my therapist that she took her own life late last night, no suicide note nothing.
I've been crying all day thinking about her, she had so much going for her transition wise. She was only 21 years old, naturally beautiful, and already had a passing female voice. I remember her saying "i don't want to be a transsexual, i want to be a girl...i feel like a girl" at one of our group meetings.
What is your opinion on suicide, do you think it's an easy way out or maybe it's the only way out for some? Discuss :'( :-\
That's really sad, I can't imagine how you feel. It's good that you have a therapist to talk to about this (who actually understands the situation).
There's just so much pain and sadness surrounding gender incongruence, couple that with the trials and tribulations everyone goes through and life can be pretty miserable.
I drafted a response to your questions but decided not to post it as I'm not a qualified mental health professional nor am I a qualified counsellor and as such I don't want to inadvertently say anything that could be misinterpreted by anyone.
I've had those thoughts before. If anyone else out there is thinking about suicide call one of the numbers I posted above. Even if you think you've made up your mind, it doesn't hurt to talk it over with someone.
I am so very sorry Forever21Chic
Unfortunately, suicide plagues our community more than any other group of folks and it hits hardest when we lose someone close to us
I do not believe it is either the easy way or the only way out... But rather a cancer that we must fight by sticking together and standing up for equality and human rights for trans people
Hugs dear, we are here for you
- Virginia
I'm so sorry for your pain.
As my sister (VM) said, suicide plagues us, Caitlen has done a great job posting those numbers.
I have and I will keep talking to anyone at this site who posts that they are depressed or suicidal. Many of us have done so in the past and we have helped people through the dark hours. Being with people who know and understand can help so much.
But there is one over riding rule about this sort of counselling. IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT IF THE PERSON TAKES THAT STEP.
The blame is NEVER on you. To accept responsibility for their actions will not help them and will hurt you.
Sorry to shout but it is important. What if? Doesn't help.
Hugs my friends. We are family. We are strong because we have have such difficulties. We know that the only way we can keep going is with the love that we have for each other and the horror of our predicament. Few people have that bond ; total strangers who can call out and people who know exactly how they feel are here.
If you are feeling suicidal or depressed post clearly with a title that you are feeling suicidal or depressed etc. It doesn't matter what you have done. It doesn't matter if you are drunk or whatever. Post.
If you can, set up local friend networks at Sue's that you can talk to if you are down. Just a couple of people who you like or can relate to. I have them. When the black dog runs I can talk to my friends, and there is no shame embarrassment or guilt. They do the same to me. And as they know, Woe be time them if they fail to tell me.
Caitlin has done everyone a big favour. Print the numbers out and put them on a place you can find when you are down, or when you are contacted by people who are down.
The loss of a sister or brother is terrible. My love and hugs to you Forever21chic. You sound like a very caring and decent woman. Do not dwell on what might have been. It doesn't matter, love her memory and live her spirit.
If anyone needs to contact me, email me. You know who I am.
Cindy James
Do a web search and you'll find the numbers are staggering for suicide in the trans community when compared to the general population. I'm sorry you have to go through this. That the living suffer so much is something those who commit or attempt suicide seem to fail to grasp. Or they just don't care.
Julie and I have a friend who began her transition a little over a year ago. Since that time she's made four suicide attempts, two in the last month. The last one, about two weeks ago, she texted her sister and said something about "this candle is going out." Her sister found her heavily sedated and rushed her to the hospital where she was admitted to the psych ward. We talked several days ago. She didn't seem to care or failed to understand what she did. She has an addictive personality and has an addictive relationship with alcohol, prescription meds, cigarettes and food. Now it seems she's forming one with taking her life, or at least going to extremes to cry out for help. But she refuses any real help. She wants the world to solve all her problems.
Too many of us think resolving our gender identity issues will solve other problems. I don't know of one case where that was true. Usually, coming out and/or transitioning brings about lots of very difficult challenges and if your plate is full with other problems, this can put one into overload.
Society is still pretty firmly set in the mindset that being transgender is likened to being mentally ill and worse (pervert, pedophile, etc.) And society avoids people like that and would prefer they be locked away, that is if they can't be cured. But when we spend too much time in trans-support environments, it's easy to forget that.
Coming out of the trans closet can be a major shock to the system, simply because society makes it that way. Until things really change, we need to remember that and continually remind those on the verge of coming out that this is reality.
Dear Forever21Chic, my heart goes out to you. You did the best you could to help, so please don't blame yourself at all. Your friend found herself in a place where the irrational became rational, so there really is no explanation possible.
If anyone is having problems, or has a friend who is, call the numbers Caitlin put up. Please don't feel like they won't really be interested, helping is what they want to do otherwise they would not be there.
Karen.
Sorry for your loss. :(
Forever21Chic, I hope you are doing okay. Stay strong for us, and your dear friend. She's gone, but definitely not forgotten, in all of our hearts.
I had thoughts like this yesterday. I was so upset and confused and I thought that maybe it would bring me some peace. I thought that the world was against me and that I don't belong here. Luckily, I didn't act on any of this. I told myself I wasn't done yet.
Being trans is hard...really, really hard! It saddens me that so many beautiful trans people end up on the wrong side of suicide. These poor boys and girls don't get to live the life that they were supposed to have, and so sorely deserved. People who have to fight for what everyone else has. It's not fair.
My heart goes out to everyone in the trans community and to all those lost souls.
I give all of my love to you.
Karlee.x
dear forever21chick, i am terribly sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to you, i wish you the strength to go through this.
Maybe I'm just naturally pissed but it pisses me off to hear when someone commities sucide. Not at them but to the others who pushed them into it. *Bigotry, Racism, ect* or maybe it's just because the world feels a need for titles.
The way I look at it is I am female. Always have been always will be. I just have a birth defect in which I plan on getting fixed. Their are people with turmors, mental retardation, born with 6 fingers instead of 5 and I don't look down on them but I've known they feel like their freaks cause of the social norm. I look at this in the same way and I take the same mentality I've told them.
We're NOT freaks. End of discussion.
I'm so sorry this had to happen. My heart goes out to you and everyone else here, as well as anyone who has or has had a friend take or want to take their own lives, as well as anyone contemplating the issue themselves.
I used to think that suicide was cowardly, that only idiots would kill themselves. My sister used to cut herself a lot, and once she told my mom she wanted to kill herself and wanted her to call a hospital. They got into a huge argument in which my mom refused to bring her to a hospital, saying that she was just feeling down and wanted attention. Eventually my sister called my other sister and she drove her to the hospital. Now knowing my sister, I'm honestly not sure if she was just craving attention or not, but at the time I thought of the whole thing as stupid. That was until I've contemplated suicide myself. Now I understand that suicide should be taken seriously at all times, and it's not a coward's way out. I'm not saying it's the right course of action, but when the world beats you down sometimes it just seems like the best way of achieving peace...
There will be a day when trans-people, and hopefully every other person in this world, will no longer feel the need to take their own lives. There has to be. And we have to be the ones that help make it a reality.
My heart goes out to Forever21Chic and janine.
It's difficult to really look at this issue because we all feel we must discourage others from doing the same. If we don't and they do, then we may, in some way, be responsible for their death.
The reality is, when someone wants to die, there is very little we can do to stop them. By its nature, they have got beyond the point of phone lines or therapy.
Some succeed though they would prefer to be rescued. Many are very near this point, yet can find a lot of comfort in phoning, or just meeting someone to chat.
But those that have decided, its just a matter of time, their own time. I've known a few people who have killed themselves, but my own view, in each case, is that these people were actually killed by the situation they were in, be it depression, other mental illness, or frequently, the pressure from society to live in a manner that is not natural for them.
But I take the view that they died as a result of external conditions, as much as someone who dies of disease or a car crash.
Like, I suspect, many here, I have lived much of my own life near to that point. I look forward to dying. I long since have had enough of living. No-one's fault. I blame no-one nor do I seek to show anyone or teach anyone a lesson.
I have carried on and will continue to do so, for the sake of my wife who will be left alone.
Best wished to Forever21Chic and janine and others in a similar situation.
Quote from: Gadgett on October 12, 2011, 05:52:06 AM
Maybe I'm just naturally pissed but it pisses me off to hear when someone commities sucide. Not at them but to the others who pushed them into it.
I agree but we're not the only ones who experience this. Look at the kids who turned on their classmates at Columbine and other schools. Most of them were taunted, criticized and rejected. Control through social pressure causes a lot of people to do things they otherwise would never do. Society needs a new attitude, but with so many ignorant people who have no desire to be anything else but, I just don't see that happening.
Parents pass on their prejudices for many reasons but none of them is due to kindness, compassion or empathy. Many parents have the attitude, "I had to go through that and if I did, so should you!" It's stupid personified. And teachers aren't much help either. Add to that the fact many religions preach that certain types of behavior need to be suppressed and even eradicated, and you've created a living hell for people who are different.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend. It's tragic that our society is so judgemental and cruel that kind, fragile people conclude that there is no other way to be rid of the pain. As Cindy said, just remember that it isn't your fault in any way.
I hope there is someone there for you right now - to hug you and share your grief. You have our support here.
Julie
Forever21Chic and Jainie, I'm sorry to hear of the suicides that have touched you. These are traumatic events for all parties concerned.
A friend of mine killed himself years ago after coming out as gay and his family rejected him. This was my first real acquaintance with just how destructive hate and rejection can be.
I won't say it's an easy way out; I have a complicated relationship with the concept of suicide.
I know two people who killed themselves due to chronic pain, and medical science at those times (mid 1980's and mid 2000's) had done all that could have been done for them. For them, suicide was the only way to stop the chronic physical pain.
To me, it's an easy thing to say, "It gets better." In my case, it has gotten better. But, I think that's due partly to the environment that I'm in. My churches and friends are supportive. If they weren't, it might be very difficult for it to get better. I was suicidal at a couple of points earlier this year, and it was related to transition. If I owned a gun, I probably would not have lived through the month of May. I got through it, and things are looking up. I really feel that it's the support I've been able to receive that helped me get through those times.
From what I've observed, suicide sometimes stems from depression and sometimes is stems from a desire to end suffering. To me, those are subtle distinctions, but they are different. My friend PJ killed himself out of depression due to rejection by his fmaily after coming out as gay. The other two people I mentioned killed themselves to end physical suffering. Were these easy ways out? I cannot and will not say.
Suicide is complicated, and to say it's a selfish act to me is a selfish statement. I understand that this is my opinion that that it might be offensive to others. Let me say that it is not my intention to offend, and if I have please forgive me.
It doesn't matter so much now why it happened or who or what is to blame. It's just really ->-bleeped-<-ing awful.
Forever21Chic, I'm so so sorry for your loss. :(
My partner killed herself about a month ago.
She had been abused as a child, and then kicked from her home at 16 for being a lesbian. She was homeless for awile, and had been raped and badly taken advantage of. I saw inside of her the most beautiful soul I've ever known, and all I wanted in the world was to give her a little bit of joy, and to show her that this world could be beautiful. She had such a brilliant mind, and I used to listen to her talk for hours. I've never been much of a talker, but I love listening to others and I loved listening to her the most. We were such a perfect fit in that way.
Now what do I have? I try to put on a cheerful face but I feel so empty inside. I feel so cold without her. All I have of her now is a single photo, and a few Terraria saved worlds she made that I will never delete.
I am so thankful for having known her. She gave me the courage to transition... she had this way with words. She always made me feel safe and loved, whatever the situation.
Ever since she died, I've thought about how if I ever find another partner I would want to adopt an lgbt child to make sure that child has a good home. I don't want anyone to have to go through what Emily did.
Lily, I can't imagine what you're going through.
{{{{{HUGS}}}}}
*hugggggggs*
I will be ok, I just need a few months to get back to my old self. I try to keep in mind that a lot of people have things far worse than I do, and that I should be thankful for what I do still have.
SUICIDE: WE GIVE A DAMN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-E7fykpeGc#)
No matter how beautiful and feminine one may appear. There are always going to be turmoil whether they want to acknowledge it or not. I know I've had people say horrible stuff about me... But rather than letting it depress me, I stepped back...analyzed the situation and became more grounded in reality.
At the end of the day, I realize... I am pretty. But some people can tell...some people know and my past will eternally haunt me. I feel it has made me a stronger person. It has made me self accept myself and work harder on certain things. Whether we're stealth or not, we all need to accept that we are women born transsexuals. I think this causes some issues with people.
I don't think suicide is ever an option. But it is a last resort for many.
You have my deepest sympathies. It's unfortunate that the world can be so cruel that someone would see suicide as the only remaining option. I've also noticed that these things seem to happen in waves; a friend of mine also lost a friend to suicide last night and I think the friend was trans...although I'm not positive.
At any rate, just try to hang on to the good memories and let the rest go. The pain may never completely go away, but it will fade, and life will go on. Ultimately, our loved ones can never die as long as we keep them in our hearts.
And to anyone who is in such dire straits, please use those numbers posted earlier or find someone here to talk with. The world is a dark enough place already without losing such beautiful people.
*big hugs for anyone who needs one*
:3
Thanks everyone for your kind words. I attended her viewing today and it was really emotional. Her mother was crying uncontrollably saying "Danielle I accept you this way please forgive me" over and over again, it was very depressing. I overheard someone saying that most of her family didn't accept her this way and completely stopped talking to her. I don't know if this is the reason why she did it but it struck a cord with me cuz my family treated me the same way.
I personally don't think suicide is the way to go but at the same time I think in some peoples situation they're not given much of a choice which makes it seem like they have no other options.
Forever21 I have lost loved ones to suicide and I know how it feels. My best wishes to you and please post here at the boards if you need to vent. We do care for you.
*hugs tight*
Forever21Chic and Jainie. My profound condolences to you both; and to anyone else who has been touched by such horrendously tragic events.
Cindy's' advice covered all bases. There is no embarrassment or shame to call for help. We do need watch out for one another.
Caitlin's' advice is absolutely essential. If the numbers she detailed don't suit your country or locality; find them. Everyone needs these contact details on them at all times, on there phone or purse/wallet/handbag, whatever.
We need to take 'random acts of kindness' to a whole new level. We need to know the warning signs. We need to text, PM, email, call, message, post, chat, FB, twitter, 4 square, (whatever social media) meet, regularly check, anyone we even think remotely looks like taking their life; a simple message of Love. - You could be the one bringing someone back from the brink, without even knowing it.
We are all brothers and sisters here in this community at Susan's. We have a duty of care, to be aware of those within this community, who are of that persuasion. As well as our friends and family outside.
Hold the sweet fond memories of those Loved Ones in your hearts forever.
Catherine
->-bleeped-<-, I'm really sorry honey. I can't imagine how you must be feeling, but my heart goes out to you. If you ever need to talk to somebody, just PM me.
My friend commited suicide when she was 14- 3 weeks away from her 15th birthday, she told me once that she felt confused about her sexual orientation. She was a gorgeous young girl and many people probably would have never guessed that she felt that way. She was vey feminine and everything, no hint whatsoever. Sexual orientation is not necessarily the same as being transgender but i believe they are shared struggles. This happened 3 years ago when i was 17- and i still remember her fondly like i just saw her yesterday or something. She left behind many people who loved and cared about her and i think most people in her life would have accepted her the way she was, she even has a surviving twin sister that i havent talked to for almost a year but i know she still hurts from it, the last time i talked to her last year she told me that she started doing drugs. I also have experience with suicide attempts, i almost succeeded once when i was 16 yrs old i overdosed but i got to the hospital in time to get the stuff sucked out, i saw how much grief i had caused my mom and family and i honestly felt bad but i didnt take away my desire to die. Although im not transgender i relate in the way that i dont feel like i am the person i should've been, and im definitely not happy with myself or body- most of the time i see someone else in the mirror and i definitely dont like her. It could all be stress and anxiety but i know how painful it can be to feel that way. Im torn though sometimes it feels like that is the way out- but it just depends on the person :-\
unfortunately, it happens all the time and society in general is to blame. we are discriminated against, assaulted, made fun of and many other things. Healthcare (in general) has little or no formal education on transgender issues which doesnt help either. transition can cost a fortune which may be a source of depression as well.......the fear of being stuck midway in transition can be over whelming
My heart goes out to everyone who's lost anybody to the weight of oppression we all face in this world. In counselling I often mention suicidal thoughts, and before the session ends they always ask, "Are you going to be ok?".
"Probably."
None of us deserve these things. No one deserves to feel like they're wrong or sick or evil or ugly for just being themselves. We need to stick together, I'm glad there's this forum full of people to chat with. The tools we need to get by are out there, it's a matter of who gets what they need and when. The LGBT community has saved my life many times over. Everyone needs to realize that they're perfect just the way they are. And the community is a safe space where we can hear those voices that differ from the nagging ones in our head. In the community you can find people who will actually say you're gorgeous when you've been putting yourself down in your head all day.
If there's somehow anything I can do for those that need emotional support etc, feel free to message me <3
My family doesn't want me. I was homeless at a young age. No one has ever been around to help with my child. People keep telling me how cruel it is to her that I'm transitioning. Lovers don't want this kind of baggage. I moved to a new city four years ago, and I'm still not close to anyone, except for an ex who kind of just pities me and feels obligated to help sometimes. I don't know how to get out of poverty. I don't even know how to drive a car. I live with chronic pain from multiple injuries and surgeries, and I'm still in debt for the medical care. I do not judge anyone who is suicidal. I've seen how things are hard.
And that's the kind of self-pitying list of troubles I have no right to recite. I have serious obligations, and I will never kill myself. I have to take care of my daughter, and also I feel I need to repay society for all the times that charity or good advice or music saved my life.
I've had friends kill themselves. My grandma and her son killed themselves (years apart), and my dad found the bodies. I understand it can seem selfish. It does hurt people. But none of the living experienced whatever drove them to it, so maybe we should be careful when formulating our opinions on it.
I have strong feelings here though, and I'm trying my damnedest not to be so angry at people who carry it out.
Quote from: Felix on October 14, 2011, 12:08:51 AM
My family doesn't want me. I was homeless at a young age. No one has ever been around to help with my child. People keep telling me how cruel it is to her that I'm transitioning. Lovers don't want this kind of baggage. I moved to a new city four years ago, and I'm still not close to anyone, except for an ex who kind of just pities me and feels obligated to help sometimes. I don't know how to get out of poverty. I don't even know how to drive a car. I live with chronic pain from multiple injuries and surgeries, and I'm still in debt for the medical care. I do not judge anyone who is suicidal. I've seen how things are hard.
And that's the kind of self-pitying list of troubles I have no right to recite. I have serious obligations, and I will never kill myself. I have to take care of my daughter, and also I feel I need to repay society for all the times that charity or good advice or music saved my life.
I've had friends kill themselves. My grandma and her son killed themselves (years apart), and my dad found the bodies. I understand it can seem selfish. It does hurt people. But none of the living experienced whatever drove them to it, so maybe we should be careful when formulating our opinions on it.
I have strong feelings here though, and I'm trying my damnedest not to be so angry at people who carry it out.
that which does not destroy us only makes us stronger!