I'm asking this for a friend in Japan because she say's she has noticed her pitch has gotten a little higher since starting HRT. I dont think it does, but What do I know. :P We are both 7 months on HRT. dont know if that helps either.
There have been one or two people on here lately who have reported their voices changing on MTF HRT, but in the vast majority there's no change (the development of the vocal cords in pubescent men can't be reversed).
It's also possible that people's voices change because their bodies are still changing (if they're still under, say, their late 20's) and just hasn't settled down yet. It's also possible that people's voices change because their relationship with themselves changes once they're on HRT, and a lifetime of tension is relieved - or that it's finally okay to have a softer, higher voice, so the brain stops telling the body to sound "manly" :).
This is not to say that it's totally out of the question that in rare cases people's voices actually get higher in response to HRT (or to one of the cocktail of feminisation drugs), though there's no hard evidence to support that - body chemistry and drugs are unpredictable.
So who knows? But statistically unlikely :).
I've heard arguments in both but my own personal thoughts is it doesn't. As I've researched it, I have yet to find any medical explanation so I think Padma is correct when I think any voice chance is psychological.
I have never seen a medical study that has shown a single case where the thickening of the vocal cords was reversed by the introduction of female hormones. Doctors and trans therapists I've talked to have answered "No" to your question. And I don't know a single MTF who has experienced vocal feminization through HRT.
I would think it was Psychological because you're not down or depressed anymore and your happy so you smile more and more bouncy...
With my own voice, I cant really tell. But my voice STILL sounds like it's going through puberty, And I'm 32 years old. I really dont like my voice but since I get called Ma'am on the phone and drive thru's, I cant complain too much. And that's with no effort to sound feminine.
I'm a bass, and probably that's how it's always going to be. I don't have particular plans to change my voice - though I wouldn't mind sounding like Fenella Fielding :).
Do You Mind If I Smoke? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36m2jLl0Me4#)
Quote from: Padma on October 12, 2011, 05:36:51 AM
I'm a bass, and probably that's how it's always going to be.
All your bass are belong to us.
Quote from: VeryGnawty on October 12, 2011, 08:36:29 AM
All your bass are belong to us.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblack-prickleback.tropicalfishss.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fblack-sea-bass-1.jpg&hash=81cb70a34a90d54f3be77d35a4ac213219999efe)
Actually, I'm extending my tenor singing range these days, and really enjoying singing tenor (and surprised myself - and others - with counter-tenor last weekend too). But I'm not strongly motivated to change my speaking voice at the moment.
I honestly don't know what happened to my vocal chords during HRT. Every once in a while I could feel parts inside my throat moving around on their own like they were being reconfigured or something.
I'm not sure how to word this but I started obtaining a feminine voice by testing my vocal chords and encouraging them to produce noise the way my throat was....telling me to? if that makes sense. There are muscles in the throat, and like all of my other muscles, my throat muscles were affected by hormone replacement therapy. Singing helped a lot too, plus I've always had this almost supernatural ability to mimic voices, so I understand why not everyone would experience their voice changing.
Let me share with you what I believe to be the difference between how a male and a female uses their voice.
When a male changes his pitch or notes, he is usually using the muscles that move the addam's apple up and down, which is why it moves around so much when you see males singing.
Women, on the other hand, use their cricothyroid muscles (the ones positioned below the cartilage in the throat) to stretch and release their vocal chords in order to change their tone while keeping their addam's apple in the same relaxed position.
Also, males tend to form their words by using their deep voice muscles and by using the heavy volume of their breath, where as women kind of release steady streams of different vocal pitches, if that makes sense, while using their lips and tongue to form their words, which tends to give them clearer pronounciation.
Women gain volume by using the cavities inside their head as a 'sounding box' whereas men use their breath and chest to FORCE the volume out.
I realize most of this makes no sense. It's hard to describe it in words.
The official answer (the one most commonly believed and usually the one doctors will tell you), is that no, it does not.
However, my personal experience and opinion is that I think there's a good chance that it does, in some people, to a degree.
It still is something that requires practice and patience, but I think HRT probably does help a little in some people.
Do you remember how, during puberty, your voice broke with almost uncontrolled bursts of higher pitched voice before finally settling to it's adult range? My voice still does that and I am 32 years old. Tbh, I don't think my voice changed much at all compared to how I sounded as a child.
I just started HRT 2 months ago and I have been trying different things with my voice to make it more feminine sounding, it can get discouraging, but I know its going to take some time and patience to master it and feel comfortable speaking higher than what is natural for me.
I have a couple theories as to why my voice changed back to female sounding:
A) If you truly have gender identity disorder and identify as a female, going through puberty as a male will not affect your voice very much
or
B) Everyone is always capable of using their female voice if they have high enough levels of estrogen, but some of them tend to forget how after using their male voices for so long.
I'm thinking B
yes it does alothough most will say no.
estrogen weakens you in every way. i belive it also weakens the voice making it sound more soft but not much just a slight softer.
Quote from: Beep on November 05, 2011, 04:00:17 AM
I have a couple theories as to why my voice changed back to female sounding:
A) If you truly have gender identity disorder and identify as a female, going through puberty as a male will not affect your voice very much
or
B) Everyone is always capable of using their female voice if they have high enough levels of estrogen, but some of them tend to forget how after using their male voices for so long.
I'm thinking B
I'm not sure I would subscribe to A, You don't have that much control over how deep your voice gets. But you can still be soft-spoken. And that too is a comment I hear about my own voice quite often.
Quote from: Padma on October 12, 2011, 05:36:51 AMI wouldn't mind sounding like Fenella Fielding :).
You totally could if you wanted to. I'm a bass also and have always had a passable speaking voice.
My voice did not change on HRT - it still reaches the same low notes it ever has.
Quote from: Beep on October 25, 2011, 03:39:59 PM
Singing helped a lot too, plus I've always had this almost supernatural ability to mimic voices, so I understand why not everyone would experience their voice changing.
Pretty much my experience as well! People tell me all the time I should try to get voiceover work because of the strange and bendy nature of my voice. :laugh:
The longer I've been in transition, the more I've lost the lower end of my speaking voice. That's probably not a hormonal thing so much as a practice thing, because I had to force my voice down to get gendered as male when people didn't see my face. That cracking voice thing never happened to me... quite frankly, puberty didn't do much of anything related to my vocal range. I've been naturally high-pitched my entire life. On top of that, I've always been a singer and I've always practiced loads of impersonations that kept my vocal range limber. But, as I said, I lost my lower end due to me never using it anymore. It took practice to get there and now it's gone. No big loss, I say.
I've Seen your demo on YouTube Zoe, it was amazing and entertaining. ^_^
Hey, Zoe. Tell me. Do you ever have abnormal breathing patterns? Do you have trouble filtering out the voices in your head? Do you ever notice that your muscles are tensed up when they shouldn't be?
Quote from: Beep on November 06, 2011, 05:52:19 AM
Hey, Zoe. Tell me. Do you ever have abnormal breathing patterns? Do you have trouble filtering out the voices in your head? Do you ever notice that your muscles are tensed up when they shouldn't be?
Pretty much all of the above... sometimes I swear I stop breathing for a minute or more and don't even notice until I suddenly gasp and pant to catch up. I'm not sure how much the voices thing is an artifact of my ADD, but I have issues concentrating on one thing for more than a couple minutes. As for muscles, I'm pretty much tense all around. The one time I got a massage, the masseuse said that in all the years she'd been in the trade, I was the most solidly tense person she'd ever worked on. And kind of like the breathing, I have odd moments where I realize that I've been flexing a muscle for minutes on end. Usually I don't notice this until it cramps up severely or it suddenly loosens and I notice that it hurts.
O.o
In regards to impersonations, I used to be good at: Movie-Trailer-Narrator-Guy, Stitch ( Lilo and Stitch ), Mickey Mouse, an Alice in Wonderland Munchkin and Yogi Bear. I also do some of my own voices which is always fun for telemarketers. I can still do Stitch, Mickey and the Munchkin but my Movie trailer voice is not as good as it used to be.
Quote from: Keaira on October 12, 2011, 03:00:17 AM
I'm asking this for a friend in Japan because she say's she has noticed her pitch has gotten a little higher since starting HRT. I dont think it does, but What do I know. :P We are both 7 months on HRT. dont know if that helps either.
I am under the firm conviction that HRT does not affect a MTF's voice at all. I just do not beleive that hormones can physically raise the voice box to a prepubescent state.
I believe the ones who do say their voice has changed from HRT is simply a placebo affect in which they feel more comfortable with their bodies on hrt that they try to alter their voices....even slightly subconsciously.
Well, I am not on HRT at all yet, but my wife tells me my voice sound much more feminine when I am actually feeling feminine...such as when I am getting quality time with our pet bunny. I have a hard time doing it on purpose, but it seems to happen relatively easily around cute animals, young children, and anything that awakens my "inner little girl"...like anything with Hello Kitty on it. :) I think there is likely a significant psychological factor involved.
You know, I keep getting told my voice is feminine/ gender neutral by friends, but I want to hear from my other peers. I'm laying it all out because I don't hear what they are hearing. And I think they are biased.
Pre-HRT, in the car. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1567589/Keaira/Voice/Memo.m4a (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1567589/Keaira/Voice/Memo.m4a)
A few days ago I was trying to describe how I heard my Sister, Azmaria, when I talk with her over Mumble.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1567589/Keaira/Voice/Memo%20%282%29.m4a (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1567589/Keaira/Voice/Memo%20%282%29.m4a) one voice was an OTT parody of a friend at work whom I'm kind of jealous of because he has a soft voice that is very feminine.
After she heard it she got a little down because she said I sound really good. And natural.
And this is me actually attempting a more feminine voice.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1567589/Keaira/Voice/Memo%20%281%29.m4a (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1567589/Keaira/Voice/Memo%20%281%29.m4a)
Quote from: Zoë Natasha on November 06, 2011, 11:01:02 AM
Pretty much all of the above... sometimes I swear I stop breathing for a minute or more and don't even notice until I suddenly gasp and pant to catch up. I'm not sure how much the voices thing is an artifact of my ADD, but I have issues concentrating on one thing for more than a couple minutes. As for muscles, I'm pretty much tense all around. The one time I got a massage, the masseuse said that in all the years she'd been in the trade, I was the most solidly tense person she'd ever worked on. And kind of like the breathing, I have odd moments where I realize that I've been flexing a muscle for minutes on end. Usually I don't notice this until it cramps up severely or it suddenly loosens and I notice that it hurts.
You poor soul. I know exactly what you're talking about because going through puberty as a guy with the mind of a girl can cause these kinds of effects on people like us.
It's like we're completely traumatized by having testosterone in us so we attempt to become men artificially by over thinking every move and thought we make and have.
My mother told me that, when I was a child, I would sometimes just sit and clench every muscle in my body and hold my breath for long periods of time.
Now that I'm on hormone replacement, I've been trying to achieve more inner peace by allowing myself to breathe more naturally, and relax muscles in my body when I'm not thinking about it, but it's very hard, and I'm only 24. I don't want to sound rude here, but for you it must be an even worse situation, considering your age. It must drive you insane sometimes.
Another thing is I have a hard time sweating, even while working out. Something went very wrong with our bodies as we progressed through puberty, and I implore you to find ways to heal yourself before it's too late.
We must allow ourselves to once again be controlled by our hormones. Body and mind, as we once were as children, instead of thinking about every thought and move we make.
May you reclaim your mind infected by testosterone. I love you.
I know its been a while, but While I was playing the new Star Wars: The Old Republic Beta test, I was running with a few guildies and my sister. One of them was recording video and..well, I was not present for the NPC conversation. But that is my voice! God I sound like a teenage kid! and thats my natural voice!
How a Bounty Hunter introduces himself (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL1XJ3_4efI&feature=autoplay&list=FLqi32msQzK6Hv4HtPDPIARA&lf=mh_lolz&playnext=1#)
Quote from: Zoë Natasha on November 05, 2011, 01:17:43 PM
Pretty much my experience as well! People tell me all the time I should try to get voiceover work because of the strange and bendy nature of my voice. :laugh:
The longer I've been in transition, the more I've lost the lower end of my speaking voice. That's probably not a hormonal thing so much as a practice thing, because I had to force my voice down to get gendered as male when people didn't see my face. That cracking voice thing never happened to me... quite frankly, puberty didn't do much of anything related to my vocal range. I've been naturally high-pitched my entire life. On top of that, I've always been a singer and I've always practiced loads of impersonations that kept my vocal range limber. But, as I said, I lost my lower end due to me never using it anymore. It took practice to get there and now it's gone. No big loss, I say.
Same with me, singing has increased my usable range significantly. My voice dropped quite a lot, but I was able to bring it back up after practice. I still have my low range, although I have to force it, and I've lost a few of the lowest notes.
It's common sense though - estrogen even in genetic women does not make the voice higher - it is a lack of testosterone that stops genetic womens' voices from getting lower (although they get somewhat lower with age in many cases).