I grow weary, once again, of the expectations of my peers.
I can't help it, I'm a rebel.
Is it at all normal to have this streak? Shall we call it a streak? An androgyn(ous?) streak? They happen quite frequently, surprisingly, as I care not to delve into the vice grip of a completely stereotypical binary interpretation of gender. I did this to myself growing up, I broke my gender.
I suppose I'm floating on by :) Do what you will with the thread - just venting to a people I believe may be empathetic.
I don't find it odd that you're going through what seems to be an Androgyn period of defining your gender.
Were does the line overlap or touch??
It's becoming somewhat obvious that peoples gender can float around in the grey area or even bounce back and forth. YMMV.
It's nice here, because of the enormous amount of differences between people here.
There are no expectations other than try to accept others as they feel they are.
That's a reason all in itself. Accept no expectations. Feels good, doesn't it?
You come here as a person without expectations. You and anyone else out there want to come here and hang around? Cool.
Just accept the fact that none of us are even close to being the same, other than to have that very quality.
Don't try to figure us out, just accept the fact that you can't. Neither can we. But, we do find commonalities.
That's what we do here. Cool.
The Rope Swing is always available and holds more than one person. :D
Ativan
Yep, gonna swing around and take in the mix. No expectations.
;D
Welcome back to the forest :)
:D
So, I have a theory that my knight is somewhere in the the forest. I hope to dream a pretty dream of escape tonight.
I'm a bit flustered by the other corners of reality.
welcome back emma! how was the city?
i don't really like the corneres of reality. which is why i moved out into the forest where i can't be cornered
The Forest is real, the Binary Cities,....I'm not so sure I'm sold on the realities, rules and regulations of them.
Ativan
Quote from: @ivan on October 17, 2011, 11:09:10 AM
The Forest is real, the Binary Cities,....I'm not so sure I'm sold on the realities, rules and regulations of them.
Ativan
Very real and refreshing.
To me.
I've been around long enough to be aware of an androgyn person's issues, I try to stay very "on the surface." Don't fret.
Quote from: EmmaM on October 16, 2011, 09:53:21 PM
:D
So, I have a theory that my knight is somewhere in the the forest. I hope to dream a pretty dream of escape tonight.
I'm a bit flustered by the other corners of reality.
Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee...
Never get caught in the corners or on the ropes, the middle of the ring is the safest place. Same goes for here. :)
Never get caught in the corners or on the ropes
Must have missed the Rumble in the Jungle and that whole rope-a-dope thing.
Quote from: tekla on October 18, 2011, 07:03:01 AM
Never get caught in the corners or on the ropes
Must have missed the Rumble in the Jungle and that whole rope-a-dope thing.
Lol! He took one hell of a beating but...
Quote from: EmmaM on October 16, 2011, 03:06:31 PM
I grow weary, once again, of the expectations of my peers.
I can't help it, I'm a rebel.
Is it at all normal to have this streak? Shall we call it a streak? An androgyn(ous?) streak?
Same here, with you all the way on that. :)
Bisexuality, can it be I factor? I'm not androgyn, so I contemplate this hot button issue, and wait for a refute.
Can you phrase that differently? I'm not sure what you mean exactly.
Ativan
Quote from: @ivan on October 19, 2011, 09:04:04 PM
Can you phrase that differently? I'm not sure what you mean exactly.
Ativan
Can my attraction tio the androgyn people be a by product of my sexuality? Maybe, though my intentions are not leaning there...
Quote from: EmmaM on October 19, 2011, 09:34:09 PM
Can my attraction tio the androgyn people be a by product of my sexuality? Maybe, though my intentions are not leaning there...
can you describe how are you attracted to androgynes ?
It's a tough question because the answers could be different for each person. You could consider your self straight if you chose the opposite from your bio sex, but you're not 100% your bio sex. So in a sense you're bi sexual. Same if you prefer the same sex as your bio sex, but you're not 100% your bio sex, again. It's a matter of each person to decide how that works for them.
Not much different than trying to decide where the cut-off is from binary to Androgyne, or even what the grey area is. Each person has to find that place for themselves, although like most things, a majority I suppose goes along with the bi-sexual aspects of being Androgyn.
That doesn't mean or even equate that being bi-sexual makes you an Androgyn. Or that being Androgyne makes you bisexual.
Contrary to what many people think, finding that you are Androgyn complicates some of the smallest things and the large things to a lesser extent.
It takes a lot of your thinking to be an Androgyne just for those reasons. It's why it is easier to accept differences, you already are.
Don't let your brain go into if-then without control mode. If-then is the world of Binary. Here it's more maybe-then and if-maybe, and don't worry if the answer changes a little every so often, with often being kinda key there.
The avatar kid is just cute as all get-out!
Ativan
Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on October 19, 2011, 09:39:52 PM
can you describe how are you attracted to androgynes ?
Absolutely.
I am drawn in by their outlook, primarily. Here I am, near binary, almost obsessive, and a broken person for it. The Androgyn(e?) people I have been in contact with do have incredible complications, but they are pretty, I enjoy the mix they have, the things they believe, when they are enjoying who they are.
@ivan,
The layer you touched upon is one of two, maybe three. Though it is a very important layer. I am attracted to men and women, I was bio- male and am getting to bio-female (as close as medicine can take me), I really can't connect with a person who does not have elements of both genders, the absence of a gender is something I have yet to encounter.
Just a thought to dissect.
Many Androgyn's refer to not having a gender. I honestly don't know if that leaves a door open or not.
Some days I feel very genderless, other days I enjoy that proven wrong by someone or something.
It's all so frustrating on a delightful level.
Ativan
Quote from: @ivan on October 20, 2011, 04:29:06 PM
Many Androgyn's refer to not having a gender. I honestly don't know if that leaves a door open or not.
Some days I feel very genderless, other days I enjoy that proven wrong by someone or something.
It's all so frustrating on a delightful level.
Ativan
I would like to speak to a genderless person. That would be interesting. I actually think there are many here, but I mean IRL.
On a side note, I feel very guilty. I have been snooping a tiny bit in the androgyne "just for us," though I abstain from posting there. Thought briefly of trying to officially join the group, and then talked myself out of it because I know I'm not androgyne. What on earth is wrong with me?
Emma - you're as much of an androgyne as anyone else here - If you want to join the "just for us" forum i'd be glad to have you as a member :)
Second That
I am sure we could, by consensus, issue you a non-resident reading/writing visa. You are lucky if you know the TRUE meaning of all the gender terms and know which one unequivocally applies to you. Reminds me of Joni Mitchell's song:
I've looked at life from both sides now
From up and down, and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall
I really don't know life at all
With an androgynous hug,
S
Oh it would be fun, I'm sure. But you must have your safe space. I only see it due to my being on the wiki staff.
If you have any doubts about being Androgyn, then you probably are.
I've always thought of you as Androgyn.
You're the one who insists you're not, the rest of us know you have always been one.
Ativan
Then I posit this question: is it possible to be MTF and A?
Think on this:
Is it possible to have nearly all of the transsexual hallmarks, want a physical body one way so that your dysphoria is cured, and have an ambivalence towards the gender binary? A core sort of ambivalence that dictates behavior and belief, but not the mind / body map?
All things are possible in the forest. All things.
Quote from: EmmaM on October 23, 2011, 03:06:48 PM
Then I posit this question: is it possible to be MTF and A?
Think on this:
Is it possible to have nearly all of the transsexual hallmarks, want a physical body one way so that your dysphoria is cured, and have an ambivalence towards the gender binary? A core sort of ambivalence that dictates behavior and belief, but not the mind / body map?
Yes to all of the above. You would simply become a female bodied androgyne :)
I honestly haven't given it too much consideration, with the recent brain hurricane I'm weathering.
Perhaps it's just a part of me that I have trouble accepting. I do not think it's wise for me to stray from the path of full transition, that much I know...
Edit: riven1: hmmm....
Quote from: EmmaM on October 23, 2011, 03:06:48 PM
Then I posit this question: is it possible to be MTF and A?
After a year or so into my transition MTF, I started thinking of myself as M2F2? or something else entirely. I eventually found my way here, and to others using the term androgyne. Anything is possible, we each occupy our own unique place on the gender continuum. I'm still figuring it all out ;D
Z
With loving and gentle respect...I don't know that what you say is fair to the MtF community Ativan. Being the spouse of a lovely and accepting MtF I know she's not the only one with an open mind.
I turned it over at work, and it seems I don't know... I come here in part because the others make me feel so overwhelmed. They try, they try, I try as well, to piece it altogether so neat and tidy.
I need to be addressed female
I occupy and enjoy female places
I want to live in my relationships as female
I acknowledge and accept that I'm trans
I tried for a time to be as I was bodily born, whereas others seem to have fought it desperately
I don't fight for every scrap of femininity I can find
I don't think I want to paint myself into any corners here, where I feel a little more free, so I will maintain my current M.O.
Does it mean I'm androgyne? You go ahead and decide for yourself. I like to say I'm not, but there are signs which point to that being in my makeup.
I think that's actually a really good way to keep your sanity, Emma. You don't have to try and be ultra-feminine and follow a certain set of rules to be 100% female, 100% woman. Or, if at some point in your life, if it suits you better, a female-bodied androgyne. Seems to me you're just seeking ways in which to be whole, honouring all your interests and desires outside of gendered norms.
I feel that your concern was somewhat valid. Though it would be a great way to rid myself of those I find less helpful.
No worry.
I'm just pretty much making it all up as I go along. Really everyone is. That's everyone's big secret that they are a'scared to tell everyone. That they are just faking it and hoping for the best.
You're just making that up as you go, aren't you?
I did.
Quote from: tekla on October 24, 2011, 02:26:12 PM
I'm just pretty much making it all up as I go along. Really everyone is. That's everyone's big secret that they are a'scared to tell everyone. That they are just faking it and hoping for the best.
Shhh... Why do you keep telling everyone all of the secrets? Troublemaker! Gosh!
That's were I went wrong,...Nobody told me I had to be making it all up.
In that case, consider everything to be nothing more than a lie. Can it have a spark of truth once in a while?
Course you wouldn't be able to tell.
So if you all are lying, then me telling the truth would be just like bull->-bleeped-<-ting my way through.
Of course I could be just making this up as I go, which I'm doing
Ativan