(Sorry, deleted my last post, not a lot of making sense went on in it, also I got some new questions.)
So I'm thinking of joining the Canadian Forces (Mainly cause I can't find anything on peacekeepers). I haven't decided what I'd want to do as there are many different jobs.
So to keep this short (unlike the last post) I was wondering what other peoples experiences were in the Canadian Forces (before transition or if you stayed in during transition). I've been on T a year and having a hysterectomy soon. I was thinking if I do join it will be either after top surgery when I get my gender marker changed legally to male, or before so I can help pay for top surgery.
Also any convincing stories why I should not join? I've always had a desire to join but at the same time I've been so anti-war/military for so long that I find this a bit disturbing that I want to, but I need the money and jobs are close to impossible to find these days, and not to mention I like the idea of spending time with other guys. But do males and females get split up? Would I be put with females because I'm legally female? I'm not sure on all of it, but my mom is at least behind me. She doesn't think I should do anything dangerous - there are a lot of positions that aren't life threatening, but I'm not sure what one I want to do, or if I'd want to be where the action was if I so desired.
Opinions. They matter.
I've always felt the 'need' to join the military and I was really planning on joining untill like a year before I actually would. Now sometimes I still feel like I took a wrong turn somewhere by not following that path. But as it is now, my mindset has changed too much that I would believe I'd be fooling myself and playing a big joke if I'd still join.
I think you should contact them. Mail 'm, call 'm, something. Ask how they treat transgendered people.
As for as your other question, I can only guess. I think females and males get split up, but not with all professions. There is a chance you'll end up with the females for being born as one.
All in all, follow your heart.
And give them a call, they can give you the truest answers.
Thanks for the reply.
For some reason it never even occurred to me to contact them to ask so thanks. I'm protected against discrimination for my 'sex' and sexuality (which is good since I'm bi), but who knows how trans people are treated or if many/any of them have served OPENLY for Canada.
I saw in one video for the training that females were mixed in with males. But I have no idea what happens when that ends. Kind of sucks, since I haven't gotten a reply from someone in the Canadian Forces. I would think men would sleep separately from women, but again if it was after the SRS where in Canada you are legally seen as male (2 operations, hysterectomy and top surgery) than I doubt there would be an issue. But I mean are there like group showers? That would be something I'm not really down to do. Not to mention physicals - oh boy. There will be no touching and asking to cough you know?
I'm taking the next year to complete some schooling as for many reasons (besides just bullying) I dropped out of high school, and I need my grade 10 to join, I literally have only my grade nine, plus half a credit, ridiculous. I got Eminem's education. I can easily finish a year of schooling in a few months though, but I think I want to take this slow, really KNOW where I want to go in life and if this is right. My mom's been watching videos a lot with me lately and I've never seen her more proud than yesterday when I told her about my idea.
So I guess I'll see what happens, but in the meantime, please guys, tell me at least one of you have had some experience in the Canadian Forces! In or Out, I want to be as informed as possible before I do something like this.
Found This!
Under the new policy, Canadian soldiers are instructed to wear the uniform of their "target" gender, regardless of their biological sex. Military personnel are also instructed to give transgender soldier privacy and respect for their decision — for example, not asking reasons when a soldier changes his or her name on military records.
However, not all is in favor of soldiers who come out and live as transgender during their tour of service: the new policy does not allow military honors to be reassigned to new names, even names adopted as part of a gender transition. The policy backs up this decision by stating that "there is no legal authority for rewriting history."
I've already had my name change so I guess I'm good. ;D - This is an article from December 2010. I found many just like it and by the looks of it, America needs to seriously get their ->-bleeped-<- together because we are way ahead. Letting gays, bis, and lesbians, serve openly since 1992. I must say, sometimes I hate Canada (like when they allow clubbing seals to happen) but others times, I ->-bleeped-<-ing love Canada!
Our soldiers are pretty much required to kill people we don't like. It really changes who you want, and get.
Well I'm not sure about the Canadian military but I know one of the mentalities of the US military is that you are a soldier first. wish means no mater what your job is you may be required to kill.
Military service is a great idea. I'm sure the Canadians have the same policy as the US, all troops, no matter their job, revert back to foot soldiers when it hits the fan. Jay, you look young, exactly how long have you been anti war/military? Just saying, your "ideals" as a teenager may not end up as your adult mindset. Like it or not, very few nations can get by without a military, and it is up to the citizens to fill that need. I say thumbs up to you joining. Hugs, Tracey
Quote from: Tracey on October 22, 2011, 07:11:36 AM
Military service is a great idea. I'm sure the Canadians have the same policy as the US, all troops, no matter their job, revert back to foot soldiers when it hits the fan. Jay, you look young, exactly how long have you been anti war/military? Just saying, your "ideals" as a teenager may not end up as your adult mindset. Like it or not, very few nations can get by without a military, and it is up to the citizens to fill that need. I say thumbs up to you joining. Hugs, Tracey
I'm 20 now, and have probably been against war/military for 5 years now. If anything I may want to be on the front lines, I just don't know how I feel about taking a life under any circumstances. Also I keep hearing "White flag warriors - rather make our children martyrs than murders" in my head. It's all so confusing. I don't know all the details but I ordered an information package from them, so hopefully I can find out more. I have so many reasons to join and so many not to. This will be tough decision, as once it's made, it's 3 years until I can get out.
Also, what the hell did I just watch, lol! Shiny happy people... seriously? That creeped me out!
Sounds like you saw the recruiting video! Most of us who have served understand your many reasons for wanting to serve. As for martyrdom, well, think of it this way. By volunteering, you help to ensure that unwilling people aren't likely to end up serving. Plus, you have the pride and experience that serving gives you. Hugs, Tracey
i wish the us government was as cool about letting trans people serve but they say we are unfit for duty.
Quote from: anibioman on October 22, 2011, 08:46:35 AM
i wish the us government was as cool about letting trans people serve but they say we are unfit for duty.
It may not be out of transphobia though, the us military sees ANYBODY with a hormonal disorder unfit for service, trans people dont produce hormones naturally. So they consider that a disorder.
I just hope that if I join I get accepted, I mean I'm taking the next year or so to go back to school and get physically fit. I took a practice aptitude test from their site - I actually got more than half of them right and it's been years since I've been in school! So I imagine once I got back I'll be able to get high score on it. If I do it, I have to give away one of my animals though... kind of sad.
Quote from: JayValentine on October 22, 2011, 05:42:14 AMI've already had my name change so I guess I'm good. ;D - This is an article from December 2010. I found many just like it and by the looks of it, America needs to seriously get their ->-bleeped-<- together because we are way ahead. Letting gays, bis, and lesbians, serve openly since 1992. I must say, sometimes I hate Canada (like when they allow clubbing seals to happen) but others times, I ->-bleeped-<-ing love Canada!
This is so true. I didn't know until now Canada's military's stance on transgenders. But that is so amazing.
I love Canada too. :) I might consider trying to move there someday, lol.
From what I've come to understand on the Canadian military, you need to be post top and bottom surgery aka fully transitioned into the opposite gender to serve. I recall this information when I had looked into it because I had planned on gaining citizenship there and also because I have a strong desire to join the military. It's a thought ingrained in my brain and there is no way I could serve as female to fulfill that intense desire. So I checked out their stance. Look up their military code/policy or contact them to confirm this.
Quote from: Wolf Man on October 22, 2011, 01:05:04 PM
From what I've come to understand on the Canadian military, you need to be post top and bottom surgery aka fully transitioned into the opposite gender to serve. I recall this information when I had looked into it because I had planned on gaining citizenship there and also because I have a strong desire to join the military. It's a thought ingrained in my brain and there is no way I could serve as female to fulfill that intense desire. So I checked out their stance. Look up their military code/policy or contact them to confirm this.
I've already contacted them, it takes five business days to get a reply. You're allowed to dress as the gender you feel. I'm not sure about all the other details though, can't wait to have them answer, I asked two paragraphs worth of just questions, lol.
But I think I HAVE to have top surgery first, just because I do not think it'd be possible to go through all that training in a binder! Could you imagine? Ouch! They wouldn't allow it anyways, too dangerous! This might be a way to get my mom into paying for the rest of top surgery though! I'll have more than half the money I need by the end of next year - so I guess I'll wait until after top surgery for if I decide to do this, seems like a much better idea. But for obvious reasons I'd still have to take hormones - but I plan to reduce the amount I'm on after my hysterectomy anyways so I'll take it less often, and less of it. Turns out I'm going to have a lot more questions to ask them, I suppose I'll stock up before I message them a second time.
Anyone have other questions you feel I should ask and have covered?
Dressing as the 'target' gender and such, that sounds good man! You should definately check the hormones yea, 'cause after your hysto there is no way you would we allowed to stop taking T, right? Since that would mean your body lacks hormones (either E or T)?
Oh also, what's your height? I know if I were to join I'd have to be at least 5'1" for a female (I'm 5'4") and I'm thinking the minimum male height might be a few inches higher even. (again, I live in Europe, so different rules)
Quote from: Nathan90 on October 22, 2011, 01:42:37 PM
Dressing as the 'target' gender and such, that sounds good man! You should definately check the hormones yea, 'cause after your hysto there is no way you would we allowed to stop taking T, right? Since that would mean your body lacks hormones (either E or T)?
Yeah exactly - I just hope that doesn't get in the way if I do want to serve... I mean it's not like I'll die without it if I missed a shot for some reason (say if I was in the military) but it really effs up your body to have no hormones... It'd be really weird, I wonder what that's like.
I suppose it could make you depressed? Hormones influencing your emotions for a great deal and all.
Oh btw, I edited my previous post.. didn't think you'd react so quick ;)
Quote from: Nathan90 on October 22, 2011, 01:42:37 PM
Oh also, what's your height? I know if I were to join I'd have to be at least 5'1" for a female (I'm 5'4") and I'm thinking the minimum male height might be a few inches higher even. (again, I live in Europe, so different rules)
I've never heard of any 'height' regulations or anything, but I'm 5'1" - sucks, but whatever I've gotten used to it. I mean that really doesn't stop me, height has never gotten in my way of anything. I've always been a monkey with climbing and had the strength of someone twice my size. Hmm now I'm curious, really hope there is nothing like that here.
*Edit. Now I got anxiety because I keep thinking if I'm 'too short' I won't even get the chance to serve if I so choose. I really hate discrimination, I really hope it doesn't exist against my height in the army. I mean as long as I can pass the physical fitness test, I don't see a reason why height should matter.
Quote from: JayValentine on October 22, 2011, 03:11:38 PM
I've never heard of any 'height' regulations or anything, but I'm 5'1" - sucks, but whatever I've gotten used to it. I mean that really doesn't stop me, height has never gotten in my way of anything. I've always been a monkey with climbing and had the strength of someone twice my size. Hmm now I'm curious, really hope there is nothing like that here.
*Edit. Now I got anxiety because I keep thinking if I'm 'too short' I won't even get the chance to serve if I so choose. I really hate discrimination, I really hope it doesn't exist against my height in the army. I mean as long as I can pass the physical fitness test, I don't see a reason why height should matter.
Did a little researching. There used to be a requirement of 152 cm (before that it was 158 cm), but I think they have dropped that. Now it seems to be occupation-specific rather than an enrollment standard.
Quote from: Adio on October 22, 2011, 05:40:30 PM
Did a little researching. There used to be a requirement of 152 cm (before that it was 158 cm), but I think they have dropped that. Now it seems to be occupation-specific rather than an enrollment standard.
I hope so. I also found the same thing, but I found something else stating it was 5'4" so I think I just better wait until they contact me. I just hate not knowing, it sucks if that's going to be the thing I'm discriminated against. This will truly only destroy any self esteem I have left. Oh boy.
I'm sorry that it's causing you anxiety man, but there is a good chance that it might be not an enrollment standard. Though it would be the case if I were to serve on the front line. Maybe it's something with equipment sizes, I'm not sure. Hope it's different in Canada.
When I joined the US Army, I had to get a waiver for a knee surgery I had as a kid. It would have been a disqualifier, but as long as a doctor said I had normal function they let me in. Ask the recruiter if you need a height waiver.
Quote from: Nathan90 on October 23, 2011, 03:38:15 AM
I'm sorry that it's causing you anxiety man, but there is a good chance that it might be not an enrollment standard. Though it would be the case if I were to serve on the front line. Maybe it's something with equipment sizes, I'm not sure. Hope it's different in Canada.
The front line is kind of where I want to be, I like the action an infantry soldier is faced with. The other job that interests me is a medical technician, which is a soldier first... so that doesn't help. 5 business days and I find out. I put off reenlisting in school to, because the army is my only motivation to finish schooling - I have no other use for an education with the things I want to do in life. Well I suppose the next time I post under this topic will be once I receive those emails, because I can't see a reason to continually talk about something that may not happen. Also my laptop just broke >:( and I hate this desktop computer I'm on it makes me so freaking angry. So thanks for all the replies everyone, I'll let you know what happens when and IF I get those emails back.
In Canada bottom surgery is not required to have your sex changed legally to male. You just have to have a hysterectomy, and top surgery. Trans people also get privacy and physicals do not require underwear removal, so I'm sure it's not an issue. When I asked them about being trans *they already emailed me back, they said there are no policies to prelude a person from applying for work in the CF based on their sexual orientation. - Gee thanks, but I wasn't asking about sexual orientation at all! They answered no questions about transition and where I had to be in it, so my guess is they just don't care and don't ask. If you present as male, or have legal documents stating you are male, they let you act in that desired role, as I've read in many articles. It's annoying that they didn't answer the question at all... but I have no interest in making it a known fact around there if I join that I am indeed trans. I have no issues with people knowing, I'm just not going to go around with a sign on my face stating such, if they find out or I feel it is safe to do so, I won't mind letting others know. I wish there were some people with ACTUAL experience as trans in the CF, but oh freaking well, I'll just have to trust the articles I've read, and assume they want to be left out of your personal life.
I read before that Germans allow consensual sex between male soldiers - yummy! - Just a random thought. I wonder if they meant while on the job? Shooting two types of ammunition, you know? Lol - kidding, although I WISH! It'd make a nice porno.
"To date no occupation within the CF has established a minimum height requirement thus there is currently no minimum height standard in the CF." I started clapping when I read that in their email to me! I was like ->-bleeped-<- YES, because I hate being denied basic rights for any reason, and I like knowing it's an option! I'm going to have to practice jumping very high walls in the meantime, lol!
Haha sounds great, go for it Jay!
Sorry to revive a (slightly) old topic, but if you do keep looking into this, I for one would love to hear what sort of further response/info you get. I've been interested in the Canadian Military for while - coincidentally enough I was also looking at med tech (although I'd have to go back to HS for that.... which sucks considering I'm halfway through uni) - but haven't been able to find much info on their trans policies.
I do recall reading that trans people can only serve once "fully" transitioned, and the thing I read indicated phalloplasty was required for that. I read another thing (news article) about a (trans)woman who came out after many years of service. She was an officer, and she was allowed to take a leave of duty (... I think that's what it was called; she wasn't discharged though) to complete her transition. I think the military may have paid for it, at least in part.
Also, regarding the height, there was a topic on the army.ca forums where a (cis)guy was asking about height requirements because he was 5'4" or so. Apparently the only job that apparently had any sort of height requirement was pilot. So you oughtta be good on that front unless you plan on flying some fighter planes :)
(It might be worth asking on those forums btw. I've lurked through the forums and they seem to be pretty cool, more or less. * edit: just did a search for transsexual on their site, and as it turns out they aren't quite as cool as I thought. Some of them are, but there's always a few ignorant eggs out there.)
Quote from: Renard on October 27, 2011, 01:08:30 PM
(It might be worth asking on those forums btw. I've lurked through the forums and they seem to be pretty cool, more or less. * edit: just did a search for transsexual on their site, and as it turns out they aren't quite as cool as I thought. Some of them are, but there's always a few ignorant eggs out there.)
What forums were you lurking? I've been on the CF site and there none.
Also I REFUSE to get bottom surgery, and they really did offer NO information when I asked them about it. I'll contact them again (I'd do it over the phone but I'm a bit of a chicken) until they freaking answer me!
You know what, I've searched and searched and searched and can't find ANYTHING about requiring bottom surgery!
A recent addendum to the Canadian Forces military administration manual says that military personnel who change their sex or sexual identity "have a right to privacy and respect," but must conform to the dress code and standards of deportment of their "target" gender. Thus male soldiers who believe they are women will be required to wear women's apparel, and vice versa.
The document defines transsexual as a person born with the physical characteristics of one sex who emotionally and psychologically feels they belong to the opposite sex, whether they have undergone sex-change surgery or not.
Rana Sioufi, a spokeswoman for the National Defense Department, told the media that the new directive was produced in response to inquiries from administrative staff on how to deal with gender-confused service members.
"The CF is unique in that it must recruit, house, clothe, train and deploy its members," Sioufi said. "This requires clear direction and standardized instructions to deal with individuals who may not fall into the generally accepted gender categories."
In 1998, Canadian Forces agreed to afford its soldiers sex-change operations, along with hormonal and psychiatric treatment, at a cost to Canadian taxpayers of between $20,000 and $40,000 per procedure.
So yeah... I think that just about settles this.
I wouldn't be so quick to settle anything based on numbers that are 11 years old, lots of change in the last 11 years.
http://forums.army.ca/ (http://forums.army.ca/)
It's not run by the CF, as far as I know, but seems to be a good place for general info about, well, the Canadian Forces.
And the thing I read about phalloplasty being 'required' was from maybe 2006, and also not official, so it could very well be outdated or simply wrong. I have a feeling, from what I've read, that it isn't wrong, but I really, really hope it is.
Quote from: tekla on October 27, 2011, 02:58:47 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to settle anything based on numbers that are 11 years old, lots of change in the last 11 years.
This is all from 2010.