I am watching it on the news. I don't understand what they are protesting, because weed is legal here in California.
Just seems to be a lot of hobos and troublemakers...
Can anyone explain to me what OCCUPY means besides occupying public spaces?
good question.
It hard to get any specific answers as to what their goals are.
The main goals are to protest and draw attention to:
1) how corporate and financial institutions have eroded the middle class and pushed the lowest class down even further (thus emphasizing the difference between the top 1% who control 1/3 of the wealth in America and the other 99% who are SoL)
2) how said middle and lower classes have no real voice in how things are run anymore because politicians have become puppets for those corporate and financial institutions ever since the (republican majority) supreme court ruled that caps on campaign contributions were "unconstitutional" in that they violated free speech (think of the impact of a single company donating millions of dollars to their choice candidate--lots of expectations of favors)
It's by no means a "hippie" movement. The last time I was down at Occupy Portland I met an out-of-work single mom who brought her 2 kids and a bunch of other "average Americans" frustrated with the status quo.
I'll reserve comment on the fact that you might actually have thought it was about weed :)
It all depends on what news source you're reading or watching. The "no point" spin has been a favorite of those who want the protests to end. But to answer your questions, here's some help:
DC Douglas' "Why #OccupyWallStreet? 4 Reasons." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK1MOMKZ8BI#)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-srv%2Fspecial%2Fbusiness%2Fincome-inequality%2Fimages%2Fshare.jpg&hash=0e9201b759bd241edbbbfa99ca4bf7ee1abac853)
George Carlin The Best 3 Minutes of His Career "The American Dream" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ&feature=player_embedded#)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvisualecon.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F07%2Fextremeinequalitychart.jpg&hash=58f851a5c2bc32101e2f055743690c49bf6e093a)
It's about people who ...
have lost their jobs
have seen their pay decrease against the cost of living
who have had to work longer hours for the same pay
who have watched their retirement money dwindle
who have seen their retirement vanish altogether
who have watched a lifetime of savings dwindle away
who have lost their homes
now own more on their home than it's worth
who have college debt equal to a mortgage
who now have to work two jobs to make ends meet.
These are hard working people who never asked for a handout and now no longer have what they used to despite the fact they have done everything they can to make things work. Now they are out of options.
That's what the OWS movement is REALLY about. That and identifying WHY we got where we are today and encouraging reversing the government actions that helped get us here in the first place. And yes, it was government intervention into the existing tax laws, investment laws, banking laws and real estate laws that helped create this. It was working and they "fixed" it. Now they have to undo what they did.
George Carlin was one of a kind and right on the mark.
It has nothing (repeat nothing) to do with weed.
It's about economic justice. And that's complicated, and hard to boil down into a nice soundbite for the 5-o-clock news. The simplest formulation is that the people protesting want the American Dream to be a realistic aspiration again. They want everybody to be able to have a decent job that allows them to raise a family in a decent home with decent healthcare and put a little money away to retire at a reasonable age, and they want economic policy from the government that promotes that goal.
The current policies are not working, and people of all ages who have done everything "right" according to what they were told - kids who did well in school and went to a good college, older workers who have worked hard all their lives - are facing an uncertain and frightening future because the systems they were expecting to be in place at this point in their lives have broken down. There are 7 applicants for every job opening. Pensions are being cut. Social Security is uncertain and inadequate. Retirement savings accounts were decimated. Health care costs have exploded. Millions of people are underwater on their mortgages through no fault of their own and couldn't accept a job if they found one that required them to move. Graduating students have tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt just from doing what the adults in their lives advised them to do, and they're fighting with high school kids, out-of-work construction workers and laid-off middle-aged people for minimum-wage service sector jobs that barely cover their payments.
And meanwhile, the people who engineered the collapse are essentially untouched, their multimillion-dollar salaries and bonuses intact, thanks to government bailouts and lending practices. They're not using that money to invest in creating jobs or provide home loans or anything useful. It's shameful.
Quote from: kyril on October 26, 2011, 02:17:05 PM
It has nothing (repeat nothing) to do with weed.
It's about economic justice. And that's complicated, and hard to boil down into a nice soundbite for the 5-o-clock news. The simplest formulation is that the people protesting want the American Dream to be a realistic aspiration again. They want everybody to be able to have a decent job that allows them to raise a family in a decent home with decent healthcare and put a little money away to retire at a reasonable age, and they want economic policy from the government that promotes that goal.
The current policies are not working, and people of all ages who have done everything "right" according to what they were told - kids who did well in school and went to a good college, older workers who have worked hard all their lives - are facing an uncertain and frightening future because the systems they were expecting to be in place at this point in their lives have broken down. There are 7 applicants for every job opening. Pensions are being cut. Social Security is uncertain and inadequate. Retirement savings accounts were decimated. Health care costs have exploded. Millions of people are underwater on their mortgages through no fault of their own and couldn't accept a job if they found one that required them to move. Graduating students have tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt just from doing what the adults in their lives advised them to do, and they're fighting with high school kids, out-of-work construction workers and laid-off middle-aged people for minimum-wage service sector jobs that barely cover their payments.
And meanwhile, the people who engineered the collapse are essentially untouched, their multimillion-dollar salaries and bonuses intact, thanks to government bailouts and lending practices. They're not using that money to invest in creating jobs or provide home loans or anything useful. It's shameful.
Sounds like the real world realization that you aren't entitled to s*** has came true. Meh, you voted Obama in without realizing he was a tool. I am not saying the Republicans are any better, they aren't.
Americans live an incredibly irresponsible indulgent lifestyle full of debauchery. Now they are bitching? Interesting. Bitching seems to be what we as Americans do best.
And even Alan Greenspan, the guy who helped usher in these decades of greed, admitted he was wrong.
Greenspan Destroys Deregulation in 16 Seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAH-o7oEiyY&feature=related#)
Quote from: Julie Marie on October 26, 2011, 11:10:35 AM
It all depends on what news source you're reading or watching. The "no point" spin has been a favorite of those who want the protests to end. But to answer your questions, here's some help:
DC Douglas' "Why #OccupyWallStreet? 4 Reasons." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK1MOMKZ8BI#)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-srv%2Fspecial%2Fbusiness%2Fincome-inequality%2Fimages%2Fshare.jpg&hash=0e9201b759bd241edbbbfa99ca4bf7ee1abac853)
George Carlin The Best 3 Minutes of His Career "The American Dream" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ&feature=player_embedded#)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvisualecon.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F07%2Fextremeinequalitychart.jpg&hash=58f851a5c2bc32101e2f055743690c49bf6e093a)
It's about people who ...
have lost their jobs
have seen their pay decrease against the cost of living
who have had to work longer hours for the same pay
who have watched their retirement money dwindle
who have seen their retirement vanish altogether
who have watched a lifetime of savings dwindle away
who have lost their homes
now own more on their home than it's worth
who have college debt equal to a mortgage
who now have to work two jobs to make ends meet.
These are hard working people who never asked for a handout and now no longer have what they used to despite the fact they have done everything they can to make things work. Now they are out of options.
That's what the OWS movement is REALLY about. That and identifying WHY we got where we are today and encouraging reversing the government actions that helped get us here in the first place. And yes, it was government intervention into the existing tax laws, investment laws, banking laws and real estate laws that helped create this. It was working and they "fixed" it. Now they have to undo what they did.
And whats the solution? Hippy socialism?
Yes, I will listen to he who has the trust fund. This seems like my generation wants to relive the summer of 69' after all, our parents gave us everything. Now we're protesting!
Hippy socialism never caught on because it's a pipe dream. If socialism worked, we'd be living in it now. But Americans think they have high taxes now? Wait til socialism comes through.
Quote from: Julie Marie on October 26, 2011, 03:08:12 PM
And even Alan Greenspan, the guy who helped usher in these decades of greed, admitted he was wrong.
Greenspan Destroys Deregulation in 16 Seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAH-o7oEiyY&feature=related#)
Actually, Americans ushered in that greed. To think we as citizens are responsible for the actions of our politicians? We are. Americans have more than anyone in the world, and it's never enough. We don't even produce here, cuz we make stuff in China.
I think the Occupy protests are just another social event for those who believe they are "unique". Now is the government wrong? hell to the yeah. But there is no one solution without consider what people in middle america think. You know, the people who actually do the backbreaking work?
Oh please with the Middle America myth. The heavy lifting for our economy is done on the Coasts and the rest of the industrial areas. Middle America is not exactly teaming with people either. All that stuff is a political myth. OWS is just a nice, if convenient way (at least for now) of avoiding the real questions. But if the various issues start to converge, then all bets will be off.
Quote from: tekla on October 26, 2011, 03:25:25 PM
Oh please with the Middle America myth. The heavy lifting for our economy is done on the Coasts and the rest of the industrial areas. Middle America is not exactly teaming with people either. All that stuff is a political myth. OWS is just a nice, if convenient way (at least for now) of avoiding the real questions. But if the various issues start to converge, then all bets will be off.
Hey I watched "Roseanne". I know how it is.
But seriously, I am not gonna listen to a bunch of college students protestin stuff. It's cliche...
You should go down to one then, what you find on the ground is not exactly what is portrayed in the media.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 26, 2011, 03:12:11 PMYou know, the people who actually do the backbreaking work?
And that would be the people who are now, as you say, "bitching".
The arguments here are so typical.
A bunch of statistics without no real solution. Arguments based in emotions more than considering the complexity of reality.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 26, 2011, 03:06:17 PMMeh, you voted Obama in without realizing he was a tool.
Do you honestly think Barack Obama caused this? FYI, the president doesn't know what goes on in Wall Street conference rooms, wasn't even in office when the richest people in America got amazing tax cuts in the early 2000s, and Congress has been passing the laws in this country since the Constitution was ratified a couple hundred years ago.
QuoteArguments based in emotions more than considering the complexity of reality.
You need to get a grip on reality before talking about its complexity.
Quote from: Butterflyhugs on October 26, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
Do you honestly think Barack Obama caused this? FYI, the president doesn't know what goes on in Wall Street conference rooms, wasn't even in office when the richest people in America got amazing tax cuts in the early 2000s, and Congress has been passing the laws in this country since the Constitution was ratified a couple hundred years ago.
You need to get a grip on reality before talking about its complexity.
I've been to these protests. It's a convention for socialist/communists/ and anarchists.
I blame Americans, not wall street.
Arguments based in emotions
Politics is one of the few things that Americans are emotional about. We have no common culture, not even a common language, no national religion, just sports and politics.
Second, in the broadest sense, in line with our core values and beliefs it DOES NOT MATTER WHY OR WHAT THEY ARE PISSED ABOUT AS AMERICAN CITIZENS THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BE THERE so long as this country is still running under the Constitution of the United States because it couldn't be plainer than this: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. So long as they are on public property (and in Oakland there were at City Hall, pretty public that) protesting public policy and governmental decisions they have an absolute right to be there.
It's all about America. Wall Street is a huge part of America, as was/is the home ownership industry (banks, construction companies, real estate interests - and the biggest powers in America have always been the real estate interests, from day one, and they still hold awesome power and wealth that though seen by all, is power and wealth that is far more hidden than corporate power). All those bank defaults on mortgages put all that real estate into the hands of the banks, taking the last five-seven years of the default craze the amount of real estate that has amassed in the banks is the largest single transfer of property since the Louisiana Purchase. Doing this wiped out a huge segment of the middle-class - who've been having hard times since the 80s - because that house represented most of their total lifetime savings and investment. At the same time, student were graduating to fewer and fewer jobs, in an economy that though booming on paper didn't seem to be hiring anyone to get in to it.
Now it was the very rich, and the most money soaked corporations on earth - we bailed out, the gambling industry part of capitalism, the only industrial stuff that was bailed out amount to loans to Ford and GM, that have since been paid back, the rest went to bad paper, not anything real.
The fact that the 'message and solution' seem vague is because they are. But lots of very smart people have been saying for about 15 years now (and in some cases more) that the entire system was out of whack and about to spin out of control - and all those people out now are aware of it. Something is seriously wrong, and I don't care if you're right or left because everyone now pretty much feels it. And you can't begin to come up with solutions until you know the real problems, and we're just getting to the point where we can articulate those.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 26, 2011, 04:04:41 PM
The arguments here are so typical.
A bunch of statistics without no real solution. Arguments based in emotions more than considering the complexity of reality.
Okay, either you are trolling or are completely ignoring the facts. Time to fess up.
Quote from: Julie Marie on October 26, 2011, 05:01:51 PM
Okay, either you are trolling or are completely ignoring the facts. Time to fess up.
I see the facts. But I don;t see a solution
A solution? That's not our job. We elect representatives to go to DC and come up with solutions to major national structural problems. We pay them and their "expert" advisors exorbitant amounts of money to solve those problems. We do that because it's simply impractical for 300 million people to have a productive discussion, and because most of us don't have the training and expertise in the right fields to properly evaluate proposed solutions. That's why we have a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. It's our representatives' job to solve these problems, and the protests are our way of saying "you're not doing your job adequately enough for us to be complacent anymore."
There are a lot of ideas being floated as possible solutions. One of the strongest, in my opinion, is to restore the Reagan-era tax and financial regulatory structure (that's sort of a minimum threshold - many of us would prefer Eisenhower-era policies, but that would involve fairly radical changes).
Step 1 is to close all the tax loopholes that corporations and (obscenely) rich people use to pay less taxes percentage-wise than the middle class. That's not to say I think there should be no rich people and no poor people, just that the gap should never have been allowed to grow as large as it is. That gap needs to exist so that entrepreneurs with the drive to better society get rewarded for it. However, nobody, and I mean *nobody* is important enough to society to make as much money as those at the tip of the top 1% do.
Step 2 is to put banking regulations back into place. Normally I'm not in favor of more regulation, because it impedes the creation of new small businesses, but the banks in particular have proved how scummy they are when unregulated. I have huge issues with banks, period. They get ungodly rich by storing your money and gambling with it - and you get < 1% interest for the trouble.
Step 3 is to use the above 2 steps to pay down the national debt. Then make adjustments as needed to bring back the middle class, which is the only thing that ever made this country prosperous to begin with.
Dont forget the step that removes all the lobbying. That is what stole our voice in the government, without the money, they don't listen.
Mahsa, you seem to hate middle and lower class americans so much, but if you haven't noticed, all other methods have failed and the government keeps siding with the ones that line their pockets.
Even if you had an answer, they wouldn't listen to you.
Quote from: Morrigan on October 26, 2011, 06:52:07 PM
Mahsa, you seem to hate middle and lower class americans so much, but if you haven't noticed, all other methods have failed and the government keeps siding with the ones that line their pockets.
Really? Naw. I am lower class. I make 10k a year.
But rebelling and protesting is just lame with no solution in hand. Though Amy raises some interesting points. Much more than the protesters have,
These protestors are offering solutions, most of the protestors who actually researched, are absolutely rooting for those same things mentioned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act) <~This is a big one.
If you actually spent some time at a protest and listened to the general assemblies, you just might get something out of it.
Quote from: Morrigan on October 26, 2011, 11:17:59 PM
If you actually spent some time at a protest and listened to the general assemblies, you just might get something out of it.
Yeah, there have been some great speakers at some of these protest. Of course, you'll never hear these speeches broadcast on Faux News, or any other American sponsored newscast. You only hear or see these stuff on independent channels or videos taken by amateur cameramen (most of whom aren't a part of any media and don't get paid for what they film)
Quote from: Morrigan on October 26, 2011, 11:17:59 PM
These protestors are offering solutions, most of the protestors who actually researched, are absolutely rooting for those same things mentioned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act) <~This is a big one.
If you actually spent some time at a protest and listened to the general assemblies, you just might get something out of it.
Just a bunch of anti american rhetoric really. I've been to several protests. I used to document what was going on there.
There seems to be a lack of a clear message in the OCCUPY movement.
Not everyone at the protests understands the various reasons for corporate corruption and economic collapse,
sure, but they want CHANGE.
Do you think everyone that marched with Martin Luther King Jr. had all the facts? It didn't matter, they knew
that votes and phone calls weren't going to change anything, that the government was above all that.
Clearly they had managed to convey the message that wasn't being heard before.
Quote from: Morrigan on October 26, 2011, 11:46:36 PM
Not everyone at the protests understands the various reasons for corporate corruption and economic collapse,
sure, but they want CHANGE.
Do you think everyone that marched with Martin Luther King Jr. had all the facts? It didn't matter, they knew
that votes and phone calls weren't going to change anything, that the government was above all that.
Clearly they had managed to convey the message that wasn't being heard before.
I didn't vote for CHANGE 3 years ago and I sure as hell won't vote for it now.
However, Obama has done a good job with what he has to work with. But I miss GWB...He was one cool dude.
Cool dudes don't fix our problems.
Like I said earlier, they wouldn't listen to you anyway, if voting worked like it's supposed to,
we wouldn't be where we are.
Voting for a leader these days is like choosing the least smashed fruit from the bin,
but none of them is as decent as you'd hoped. Obama couldn't accomplish what he wanted,
just like the next president, will be equally as powerless.
We live in a much more informed world now, and the old electoral college system is no longer necessary,
but they aren't just going to give up that privilege and let us vote for our own laws without a fight.
I miss Cheney, he was one cool dude.
Back to the topic at hand.
FREE FREE FREE
That is the goal of OWS. They want everything, without having to pay for anything.
Quote from: Michelle. on October 27, 2011, 03:38:23 PM
I miss Cheney, he was one cool dude.
Back to the topic at hand.
FREE FREE FREE
That is the goal of OWS. They want everything, without having to pay for anything.
This is absurd. We (the highly-educated young adults who form the bulk of the protesters) want jobs. Decent, reasonably well-paying jobs that let us support a family and repay the loans we took out to become highly-educated in the hope of becoming productive middle-class citizens. We want the opportunity to work hard and earn a living, like our parents had, and like they told us we would have if we stayed in school and did well and acted responsible and stayed off drugs. Which we have done; we have a higher level of education, lower rates of drug use, and lower rates of crime than any recent generation.
We're good kids. We are, by and large, overachievers. Many of us are veterans, with a skilled trade and hands-on leadership experience in addition to our formal education. We're ready, willing, and able to work. There are not enough jobs for us; current economic policy is not generating enough jobs, and most of the jobs that are being created are low-skill low-pay part-time service-sector jobs that we have to essentially steal from the unskilled young people who used to do that kind of work, wasting our potential and theirs. This is our primary complaint.
We have other complaints. The health care system in this country is a catastrophe. Our grandparents are cold, hungry, and losing their homes, thanks to the economic meltdown that destroyed their savings. Our parents are losing their jobs and pensions, and those who have jobs are unlikely to be able to retire anytime soon (reducing the number of openings for us). Our kids are alright (as long as we can feed and house them), but we're worried about the world we're raising them in.
But mostly, it's about the jobs. And the root cause of the unemployment situation, which is that too much wealth in this country is concentrated in the hands of people who are doing nothing useful with it, who are playing some sort of high-level abstract Monopoly game with financial derivatives instead of investing it in real industries that create jobs. And government policies over the last decade have only exacerbated that situation.
We want investment. We want industry. We want to work. We want to earn our keep. We don't want to go on barely subsisting on handouts from the government and our parents. What you think - that's the
opposite of what we're about.
Quote from: kyril on October 27, 2011, 04:05:43 PM
This is absurd. We (the highly-educated young adults who form the bulk of the protesters) want jobs. Decent, reasonably well-paying jobs that let us support a family and repay the loans we took out to become highly-educated in the hope of becoming productive middle-class citizens. We want the opportunity to work hard and earn a living, like our parents had, and like they told us we would have if we stayed in school and did well and acted responsible and stayed off drugs. Which we have done; we have a higher level of education, lower rates of drug use, and lower rates of crime than any recent generation.
I've seen pics from the protest...they seem to be the trust fund/hipster/college breed. Same kind that appeared at the anti war protest.
That being said, I am going to go check out Occupy SF tomorrow...
Quote from: kyril on October 27, 2011, 04:05:43 PM
And the root cause of the unemployment situation, which is that too much wealth in this country is concentrated in the hands of people who are doing nothing useful with it, who are playing some sort of high-level abstract Monopoly game with financial derivatives instead of investing it in real industries that create jobs. And government policies over the last decade have only exacerbated that situation.
This needed to be said again. And the other causes are the huge government debt (caused by repeated years of the huge deficit) and the fact nobody can get elected without being in the pockets of corporations. We won't be digging our way out of this crisis until these things are solved.
Odd I seem to remember this huge corporate thief went down at the end of the Bush/Cheney years, and it was Bush/Cheney that bailed out the financial corporations that were 'too big to fail'. Hell, wasn't Enron run by old Georgie's pal, Ken? But keep on dreaming.
Kyril,
You actually where able to condense into one post a well thought out complaint. Much better than the crowd who has been protesting for over a month now.
Your movement has another few weeks to clean out it's dregs and go more mainstream. Or else it's just going to be seen as what it has become.
A drunken, lawless mess of professional homeless folks who are now feeding off the few of you who have good, though misguided, intentions.
Rapes, drug dealing, public urination, property damage etc etc is "no way to go thru life". As Dean Wormer would
say.
As far as solutions to our current problems. That will be decided in about a year.
Obviously we need to get out the riot squads and clear the parks and streets of the worthless scum who are littering our hallowed grounds. We need to stop punishing the hard working Americans on Wall Street, in the banks, at the oil companies and heading corporations throughout the land and LOWER their taxes again and again until they are tax free. That way they can CREATE MORE JOBS! We need to end all regulation on corporate spending, on bank investment and on anything getting in the way of making a buck.
This is America! And the dollar is KING!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrrrgraphics.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F01%2Fking_dollar_rgb.jpg&hash=cd11f8cded1ffdf266e7c4be5dc8020854d0725b)
Quote from: Michelle. on October 27, 2011, 08:47:48 PM
As far as solutions to our current problems. That will be decided in about a year.
Who's going to wave the magic wand? The next President? That's unlikely.
Quote from: Morrigan on October 27, 2011, 10:05:56 PM
Who's going to wave the magic wand? The next President? That's unlikely.
I am voting for Obama.
Quote from: Morrigan on October 27, 2011, 10:05:56 PM
Who's going to wave the magic wand? The next President? That's unlikely.
None of them could. FDR tried, with very little success. It was WWII and the industry that came on line that got us out of the Great Depression. When the soldiers returned, there was the G. I. Bill waiting for them. It was the available college courses plus the soldiers' leadership skills learned from their military service that kept up the industry. We the Baby Boomers got spoiled by our parents and whittled away what they built for us and our children. This is where we are at now. It is up to (You) Gen X and Gen Y to come up to the plate.
A lot of you have the college degrees and can do well with those, but there are not many of the job descriptions available for those degrees. Since we do not have enough manufacturing or other stable industry in this country, this is what happens. The types of jobs change more quickly over time because of the instability and the available jobs become obsolete before any of you complete a four-year course. We got to bring back those stable industries and not those multinational corporations that would erode us further.
Joelene
Behind every healthy economy is MONEY, and enough of it to go around. The transference of wealth that started back in the 80's has sapped a lot of that money out of the economy and put it in the hands of the few. And they aren't spending it.
Without that money fueling the economy there's no hope of getting out of this. The government got us into this mess by removing the hinges on the door and letting in the thieves. Now they have to undo what they did.
Simple solution: go back to a time when the economy was healthy, the deficit was tolerable (or even non-existent) and unemployment was low. Reinstate the tax structure that was in place then, the campaign laws that were in place then and the financial rules and regulations that were in place then. Just make sure you don't pick a time when we were on this slide or at least reinstate the the rules and regulations that governed this economy prior to the slide.
There's a lot of other things we can do, such as enact rules, laws or regulations that reward companies that hire our citizens or penalize those who send jobs overseas, reverse the Supreme Court decision that made corporations people (which allowed corporations to influence elections in a HUGE way - cha-ching!), and encourage a revival of manufacturing in this country. It would also help if we stepped up our efforts to reduce reliance on foreign oil and any other product that creates a negative cash flow for this country.
Then you have to be patient and let the system recover.
We never fully recovered from the Great Depression. If you view the average work week,
compared to luxuries afforded, you'll see where we started downhill. prior to the Great Depression,
Families had spare time and money to invest in hobbies, money that would go back into circulation
here in the US.
In the 30s, work weeks began to skyrocket to the 40+ we are now used to. Even
70 years later, most Americans work at least 5 days a week, and if they have kids, there isn't
any room in the budget for a stay at home parent. Both parents work, one of them often
works two jobs.
The sad part about it, is that we work more hours and still have less money to afford luxuries
that we would have in years past.
Corporations have productivity rates at least 5 times that of businesses
during the Great Depression. Inflation alone allowes for wage increases, and our recent wage
stagnation doesn't even keep up with current inflation! Why do we work more hours for less
money while they profit?
A good example of corporate greed can be seen in the Cable TV business. They charge more
every year for a service that becomes cheaper as technology advances. Even with all that extra
money, they fail to significantly improve their services. Cable companies are the only reliable
form of High-Speed Internet now, and if you compare their services to Asian counterparts, you
will see a huge cost difference.
Current policies are failing to stop greed, especially on commodities, and it only hurts Low to
Middle-Class Americans more every year
Now, what was the question again?
We're giving purpose to the protests :)
I hung out in a "occupier town" today...Nice people. It was very relaxing... Nice men too. As long as their protests are lawful, I support them.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 28, 2011, 10:16:59 PM
I hung out in a "occupier town" today...Nice people. It was very relaxing... Nice men too. As long as their protests are lawful, I support them.
That's good to hear :)
Quote from: kyril on October 28, 2011, 10:22:58 PM
That's good to hear :)
I think they were surprised an outsider had enough balls to walk in and look around. One of the guys told me I was hot considering I look nothing like a hippy girl. I posted an update on fb.. Hippies ain't so bad. In fact, it was super relaxing...
Regardless of those kids stories and political idealogies...they aren't hurting anyone.
There are some issues with lawfulness of it, Masha, as many of the camps are assembling
without permits, or spilling onto areas that were not authorized. That is by far the most
common grievance the mayors and police forces report.
The problem is that you have to apply for a permit to assemble on the lands they typically occupy.
The First Amendment says: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the
government for a redress of grievances.
What does free mean? Does that mean the permit must not cost money? Does stalling a permit
violate their rights, because they have to wait, and are not "free to assemble" until that permit
is allowed, if ever?
Unfortunately, long-standing laws are found to be unconstitutional all the time, and just as many
laws that "shouldn't be" are found constitutional, because they depend on interpretation of the
amendments by the courts. The way many protestors go about provoking these unconstitutional
acts may not be the wisest, but many of them feel the alternative methods are ineffectual.
I promote a more legal and civil message, rather than pure civil disobedience, but I fear that giving
in to every city leaderships' demands, will box protestors into the deepest alleys where their voice
cannot be heard. :(
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 28, 2011, 10:48:03 PM
I think they were surprised an outsider had enough balls to walk in and look around. One of the guys told me I was hot considering I look nothing like a hippy girl. I posted an update on fb.. Hippies ain't so bad. In fact, it was super relaxing...
Regardless of those kids stories and political idealogies...they aren't hurting anyone.
The hippies and kids of the Occupy Movement:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.theatlanticwire.com%2Fimg%2Fupload%2F2011%2F09%2F28%2FScreen%2520Shot%25202011-09-28%2520at%252011.12.26%2520AM.png&hash=e03ddb76e8c76bd5f4f64c4f85d2b267ce1bede3) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.theatlanticwire.com%2Fimg%2Fupload%2F2011%2F09%2F28%2F092711west3.jpeg&hash=1e06fe4102cb3dbdb679ae762e8bd846178ef494)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediajunkey.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fmvbthumbs%2Fimg_2533_youth-unemployment-occupy-wall-street.jpg&hash=ba67d5aebf67e6ae5a21c0b8a6108b4df7cd69e0)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.ranker.com%2Flist_img%2F60262%2F377019%2Ffull%2Ffamous-occupy-wall-street-supporters.jpg%3Fversion%3D1319200374000&hash=04240171861615a510b85047c1b5c81fc2e1d6fc)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcSwBb3JfBEh5Zwl8B-x0RCrk5B0QXMbbKXIlN2jyrZdQaJivJBtQA0z6jA1_A&hash=f1b72ba8af5dcebd658fd56113ea8fb66389a000)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-3RdK8LB1ePo%2FTozZV_98EUI%2FAAAAAAAAYdY%2FhSBwrX_22sc%2Fs400%2FOccupy%252BWall%252BStreet%252Bjoined%252Bby%252Bunions%252Baljazeera.jpg&hash=a579382b0c9788a32ec3bffc9ca11789060e9a6f)