just saw on tumblr that it's either just been voted or about to be voted that inmates can now receive SRS (lower surgery rather than top was implied) at taxpayers' expense, so essentially free for them, while in prison.
I'M ALL ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS AND ALL THAT OTHER BULL->-bleeped-<- BUT UHM EXCUSE ME literally hearing that makes me want to go to jail. free srs? bottom surgery literally costs more than 20 years of the salary i was making at my last job (which i was fired from for being trans) if i don't spend one dime of it in those entire 2 decades. IN THE MEANTIME, I'M PAYING TAXES ON THAT SALARY WHICH IS GOING TOWARDS BOTTOM SURGERY FOR MENACES TO SOCIETY WHO I'VE NEVER EVEN MET. sorry, like i'm sure it works out nicely in the off chance that there's a not fully transitioned trans inmate in jail who is innocent of the crime they were convicted but at this point we're getting to such low probability that there may not even be such a person in the country.....
MY GOVERNMENT WILL PAY FOR RAPISTS, MURDERERS, THIEVES, LIARS, CHEATERS, AND THREATS TO SOCIETY to have the same surgery that I need and without, I can't much longer live a healthy and stable life. But if I want to abide by the law, it'll cost my half of the money I'll make in my adult life.
I'm so sick of life being unfair. And not even unfair in the little ways, but in ways that are so egregiously wrong that it makes me want to jump off a building.
It's a bad man's world.
Now I got to figure out what crime to commit in Philly that will actually put me in prison. I used to know a guy who mugged someone and tried to stab them and he went right to house arrest. He was doing heroin.
Quote from: Sharky on October 29, 2011, 11:23:27 PM
It's a bad man's world.
Now I got to figure out what crime to commit in Philly that will actually put me in prison. I used to know a guy who mugged someone and tried to stab them and he went right to house arrest. He was doing heroin.
I want to go to prison so badly now. My girlfriend was like "ugh but think of all the other things you'd have to go through in there" and I was just like "it's worth it 100 times over"
Quote from: -Ryan- on October 30, 2011, 12:26:01 AM
I want to go to prison so badly now. My girlfriend was like "ugh but think of all the other things you'd have to go through in there" and I was just like "it's worth it 100 times over"
My cusion says it really wasn't that bad, just boring. The guy I was talking about before said his experience was horrible. He got raped and was often beat up. He was super puny. Whenever we were at a restaurant he would eat a ton of food but never gained an ounce of fat or muscle.
Dude, move to England.
1. We let EVERYONE in super easy
2. National Health Service
Surely that would be cheaper than getting it yourself? It's a bit more complicated than just moving here but it shouldn't take more than a few years to get registered on the NHS and stuff.
Simple answer is to go to a bank and rob them of one dollar. Go in, tell the bank teller that you're robbing them and want only singles. Take one dollar from the stack, tell the teller you're unarmed and walk out. Sit out front and wait for the cops.
I think a homeless guy got 15 years for doing just that.
I feel like the US prison system is very in need of repair. I personally wouldn't be pissed about your taxes going to somebody's bottom surgery but that 1 out of 32 people living in the US are under correctional supervision and 1 out of 142 are in prison. That's about 6.7 million people that are either in prison, on probation, or on parole.
I agree with ya 100% it is wrong all the way and nothing can change that. This society rewards the wicked and punishes the good.
Also the bigger thread on it with my whole opinions on it.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,106926.msg806638.html#msg806638 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,106926.msg806638.html#msg806638)
dang.....i'd have robbed a bank then rather than paying what I did! lol
Quote from: Sharky on October 29, 2011, 11:23:27 PM
It's a bad man's world.
Now I got to figure out what crime to commit in Philly that will actually put me in prison. I used to know a guy who mugged someone and tried to stab them and he went right to house arrest. He was doing heroin.
Before you go getting yourself incarcerated, I'd like to point you towards some information on the situation of trans people in Pennsylvania's prison system: This is a Prison, Glitter is Not Allowed (http://www.scribd.com/doc/56677078/This-is-a-Prison-Glitter-is-Not-Allowed#)
Also, to all respondents, not everyone in prison (and this especially applies to the U.S. where even minor drug use or sex solicitation can land you in prison) is a murderer or thief or child molester. In addition to that, I'd rather view this in a way that validates transgender-related surgeries as "medically necessary" (and therefore deserving of ubiquitous insurance coverage) instead of ranting about how 1 penny of your tax dollars that will probably get refunded anyway might go to a prison's healthcare system.
I have mixed feelings about this. SRS is, in my mind, a medically necessary procedure and should therefore be offered to anyone covered for any other surgeries. However, if the government recognizes this enough to offer it to prisoners, it should push insurance companies to pay for it as well.
The US makes up 5% of the world's population and makes up 25% of the world's prisoners.
Quote from: Nygeel on October 30, 2011, 12:22:44 PM
The US makes up 5% of the world's population and makes up 25% of the world's prisoners.
We also punish people for things that a great many countries just let go. So ya, it would make sense to have more people in prison when we'd actually punish more people for wrong doing.
Quote from: Butterflyhugs on October 30, 2011, 12:06:21 PM
Before you go getting yourself incarcerated, I'd like to point you towards some information on the situation of trans people in Pennsylvania's prison system: This is a Prison, Glitter is Not Allowed (http://www.scribd.com/doc/56677078/This-is-a-Prison-Glitter-is-Not-Allowed#)
Also, to all respondents, not everyone in prison (and this especially applies to the U.S. where even minor drug use or sex solicitation can land you in prison) is a murderer or thief or child molester. In addition to that, I'd rather view this in a way that validates transgender-related surgeries as "medically necessary" (and therefore deserving of ubiquitous insurance coverage) instead of ranting about how 1 penny of your tax dollars that will probably get refunded anyway might go to a prison's healthcare system.
Sorry, as noted in my other posts I still feel the same way. One penny is to damn much.
And you're entitled to your feelings, however close-minded they may be.
The U.S. prison system's cruel standards of operation create more repeat-criminals during incarceration than it rehabilitates. The treatment of trans people in prison is especially heinous. As one transwoman put it "I may have broke the law, but I didn't ever do anything to deserve this."
Think about how some mishap of fate could one day put you in their positions before righteously proclaiming that people in prison deserve what they get.
QuoteAnd you're entitled to your feelings, however close-minded they may be.
Why is it closed-minded to want surgery paid for those outside of prison before those inside of prison? If the field were equal and everyone had theirs paid by the government I would agree with you, but that's not the way things are. Even those in prison who are innocent had to have been suspicious enough to garner a conviction and jail sentence or they wouldn't be there for the long term.
So why should someone who is doing everything right, not getting into trouble, and scraping together all the money they can have to wait years for surgery out of pocket while someone in prison, of all places, gets surgery handed to them on a silver platter?
Where did I say that's how things should be?
In fact, I specifically stated in my first post that this can now be used to advance insurance coverage for the average citizen: "If prisons recognize it as medically necessary, then it's medically necessary for me too."
Progress is progress, no matter where it starts. "Ranting" at progress is by definition counterproductive.
Then you're far more optimistic than I am. I don't see this as a first step, but as something that could cause enough backlash to hinder our progress with insurance companies (for a while at least). Prison rights entitlements should logically come after those of the general public, not before. The system is backwards.
I'm happy for those that can benefit, but things like this make me that much more jaded about how things work in the US.
Edit: Fixed bad word choice.
Quote from: AmySmiles on October 30, 2011, 01:11:42 PM
Why is it closed-minded to want surgery paid for those outside of prison before those inside of prison? If the field were equal and everyone had theirs paid by the government I would agree with you, but that's not the way things are. Even those in prison who are innocent had to have been suspicious enough to garner a conviction and jail sentence or they wouldn't be there for the long term.
So why should someone who is doing everything right, not getting into trouble, and scraping together all the money they can have to wait years for surgery out of pocket while someone in prison, of all places, gets surgery handed to them on a silver platter?
/agree
Quote from: Lee on October 30, 2011, 12:13:30 PM
I have mixed feelings about this. SRS is, in my mind, a medically necessary procedure and should therefore be offered to anyone covered for any other surgeries. However, if the government recognizes this enough to offer it to prisoners, it should push insurance companies to pay for it as well.
I tend to agree but insurance companies and the gov't will do whatever they can to not pay for someting saying that it's either elective or optional.....
Quote from: DevinJV on October 30, 2011, 11:03:08 AM
Dude, move to England.
1. We let EVERYONE in super easy
2. National Health Service
Surely that would be cheaper than getting it yourself? It's a bit more complicated than just moving here but it shouldn't take more than a few years to get registered on the NHS and stuff.
It isn't really that easy to get into the UK or onto the NHS! I speak with some experience on immigration issues...
If however one has Italian, Portuguese or Spanish ancestors there is a right of return and of citizenship. Am certain of this regarding Italy and fairly sure regarding Spain and Portugal. Once Italian just hop on the plane and the NHS in all its bare bones glory awaits you. :)
Alternative would be to drag yourself over to the local iranian consulate, quick conversion followed by flight to Tehran and there you go! (Rather you than me I hasten to add as I'm ->-bleeped-<-ed if I'm going to be forced to wear a chador for the rest of my days) ;D
Quote from: Butterflyhugs on October 30, 2011, 12:06:21 PM
Before you go getting yourself incarcerated, I'd like to point you towards some information on the situation of trans people in Pennsylvania's prison system: This is a Prison, Glitter is Not Allowed (http://www.scribd.com/doc/56677078/This-is-a-Prison-Glitter-is-Not-Allowed#)
Also, to all respondents, not everyone in prison (and this especially applies to the U.S. where even minor drug use or sex solicitation can land you in prison) is a murderer or thief or child molester. In addition to that, I'd rather view this in a way that validates transgender-related surgeries as "medically necessary" (and therefore deserving of ubiquitous insurance coverage) instead of ranting about how 1 penny of your tax dollars that will probably get refunded anyway might go to a prison's healthcare system.
There really wasn't much info about FTM's and how MTFs were treated wasn't surprising.
Treatment FTMs mentioned.
Fighting and getting sent to the hole.
Not being allowed to have a roommate after getting in too many fights.
Relationships aren't allowed.
Those conditions are unrelated to being trans.
Some were treated differently by doctors.
If you were obtaining hormones illegally there's a good chance you won't be getting them in prison.
FTMs chosen names aren't usually linked to their legal name as an alias so contacting them by chosen name can be difficult.
I've already experienced different treatment from doctors. I will soon obtain hormones legally. If I actually decided to go this route for SRS I would change my name first. My chosen name is the shortened version of my birth name anyway. A lot of my documents have my chosen name so it will probably be put as an alias anyway.
While it's annoying to the extreme, I don't think we should be looking at this as a bad thing. Yeah it sucks that they get it before we do, but at least it's a step in the right damn direction.
Also, Australia has government healthcare too. ;)
I bet that makes ultra anti-trans folk quite thrilled, if they do, to know that they're essentially helping to pay for a criminal's SRS. Oh, the irony... XD
This whole discussion and the anti-human rights bent that it has taken sickens me in so many ways.
1. Trans people, especially trans women, are incarcerated at much higher rates than the general population. This is not because trans people are "bad people"; rather, many trans people are incarcerated for committing "survival crimes" such as sex work and drug dealing, primarily because they have a hard time finding work in the legal economy due to discrimination.
2. Trans people, and again I'm talking primarily about trans women, do not have an easy time in prison, by any means. Imagine being someone who lives and identifies as a woman, who is feminine and/or appears female, who maybe even has breasts, and being placed in a men's prison. Not only do these prisoners have to conform to men's dress codes, cut their hair, shower in open facilities with men, etc., but they are easily targeted and victimized by guards and other prisoners. Sexual assault, rape, harassment all happen regularly. Sometimes trans prisoners are placed in isolation "for their own safety," but being in isolation is no picnic, either. Isolation is generally used as a severe form of punishment, so in this way, these prisoners are being punished simply for being transgender.
3. I'm not going to get into my beliefs about the prison system, but regardless of my personal views, people who are incarcerated are still people. Whether they committed a serious, violent offense (which, realistically, is the vast minority of prisoners), or a minor drug-related offense, they deserve human rights. One of those human rights is medical care. I think that most of us on this forum would agree that transition-related care is medically necessary for many transgender people. If this is true, then why should we think about this in any other way than, say, if a prisoner with a heart condition needed heart surgery? If we do think that providing transition-related care is inherently different from heart-related care, then we need to rethink our argument that transition-related care is medically necessary.
4. Yes, I think it's sucky that most trans people in the United States cannot access transition-related surgeries due to their inordinately high costs. I think that insurance plans should be required to cover transition-related care. Moreover, I think that, regardless of insurance coverage, all trans people should be able to access affordable transition-related care. To that end, I believe that arguing against the treatment of trans people in prison is a step in the WRONG direction.
Perhaps a part of the reason why trans people in prison can get SRS is because perhaps without SRS a transwoman would have to be placed in men's prison. or a transman would have to be in women's prison. but if they can get SRS, then they can be placed in the correct prison.
Just a theory.
Also, I just want to repost this...
Quote from: Liam K on October 30, 2011, 09:48:42 PM
This whole discussion and the anti-human rights bent that it has taken sickens me in so many ways.
1. Trans people, especially trans women, are incarcerated at much higher rates than the general population. This is not because trans people are "bad people"; rather, many trans people are incarcerated for committing "survival crimes" such as sex work and drug dealing, primarily because they have a hard time finding work in the legal economy due to discrimination.
2. Trans people, and again I'm talking primarily about trans women, do not have an easy time in prison, by any means. Imagine being someone who lives and identifies as a woman, who is feminine and/or appears female, who maybe even has breasts, and being placed in a men's prison. Not only do these prisoners have to conform to men's dress codes, cut their hair, shower in open facilities with men, etc., but they are easily targeted and victimized by guards and other prisoners. Sexual assault, rape, harassment all happen regularly. Sometimes trans prisoners are placed in isolation "for their own safety," but being in isolation is no picnic, either. Isolation is generally used as a severe form of punishment, so in this way, these prisoners are being punished simply for being transgender.
3. I'm not going to get into my beliefs about the prison system, but regardless of my personal views, people who are incarcerated are still people. Whether they committed a serious, violent offense (which, realistically, is the vast minority of prisoners), or a minor drug-related offense, they deserve human rights. One of those human rights is medical care. I think that most of us on this forum would agree that transition-related care is medically necessary for many transgender people. If this is true, then why should we think about this in any other way than, say, if a prisoner with a heart condition needed heart surgery? If we do think that providing transition-related care is inherently different from heart-related care, then we need to rethink our argument that transition-related care is medically necessary.
4. Yes, I think it's sucky that most trans people in the United States cannot access transition-related surgeries due to their inordinately high costs. I think that insurance plans should be required to cover transition-related care. Moreover, I think that, regardless of insurance coverage, all trans people should be able to access affordable transition-related care. To that end, I believe that arguing against the treatment of trans people in prison is a step in the WRONG direction.
GET OVER IT.
keep wishing to go to prison.
Once it happens you'll want nothing more than to be free again, even if it means you have to tolerate the genitals you were born with.
Free SRS is not worth being an animal in a cage.
ask someone who's lived it
Wait a minute ... you saw this on ... tumblr? lol
Seriously, this reeks of internet crap that is not reality.
ETA
10 seconds and a google search and all I see is a couple inmates tried to get SRS and they were denied ... and a bill to prevent inmates from having any SRS.
Does anyone fact check anymore? Or does everyone take the internet at face value?
Quote from: insideontheoutside on October 31, 2011, 12:46:37 AM
Wait a minute ... you saw this on ... tumblr? lol
Seriously, this reeks of internet crap that is not reality.
ETA
10 seconds and a google search and all I see is a couple inmates tried to get SRS and they were denied ... and a bill to prevent inmates from having any SRS.
Does anyone fact check anymore? Or does everyone take the internet at face value?
It actually doesn't change all that much if it's true or not. Everyone is still expressing their views in a what-if situation.
Now I got to figure out what crime to commit in Philly that will actually put me in prison.
I want to go to prison so badly now.
How can I tell that you've never really spend any time in jail, much less in prison? I hated prison, every single bit of it, and I was only there three hours a week and I was getting paid. Still sucked. Bad. Hard.
First there has not been any kind of vote on this. If you had the American public vote on prisoners, they'd kill them or ignore them - whichever is cheaper. Prisons are required to maintain any medical treatment that was underway before incarceration. They maintain it in the cheapest possible manner. If you were not on hormones before the bust then it gets murky. And remember here folks, this is the US, so there are in fact 50 separate prison administrations each trying to draw up regulations on this, and a federal one on top of that.
I'm pretty sure you don't want a prison SRS, just like you don't want Sing Sing or Folsom dental work. It's not like they are going to send you to Montreal or anything.
Because if i had been there before I would obviously know what crime to commit to send myself back?
Gang-banging, trafficking in crack cocaine, kiddieporn, anything involving being told by Chris Hansen to 'have a seat over there', making meth - be sure to do it with a gun, that usually enhances the penalties. If you could become black, Mexican or join a criminal organization like the Hell's Angels or the mob, or the Crips it would help.
Quote from: Butterflyhugs on October 30, 2011, 12:56:48 PM
And you're entitled to your feelings, however close-minded they may be.
The U.S. prison system's cruel standards of operation create more repeat-criminals during incarceration than it rehabilitates. The treatment of trans people in prison is especially heinous. As one transwoman put it "I may have broke the law, but I didn't ever do anything to deserve this."
Think about how some mishap of fate could one day put you in their positions before righteously proclaiming that people in prison deserve what they get.
Only someone who hasn't been around such things can be so arrogant. The classic strawman defense of -If can't understand because you haven't been there.- a very flawed viewpoint at best. I covered this in the other thread as well and do not quite feel like retyping it but god what an arrogant thing to say. It's like saying one can't relate to anothers emotional pain because they didn't suffer the exact same thing. It's foolish at best.
Quote from: Butterflyhugs on October 30, 2011, 01:18:08 PM
Where did I say that's how things should be?
In fact, I specifically stated in my first post that this can now be used to advance insurance coverage for the average citizen: "If prisons recognize it as medically necessary, then it's medically necessary for me too."
Progress is progress, no matter where it starts. "Ranting" at progress is by definition counterproductive.
It still comes down to the fact we will be PAYING for the insurance out of pocket and they will not be. So in the long run we still pay more and in a way twice over because not only do we have to cover ours but part of somebody elses. Ya, don't give me that penny BS either because as we tack more onto systems like this taxes go up not down. They have to cover the costs on top of all the already poorly funded projects such as the roads we drive on collapsing. Which also deserve the money more then those inside.
Ive been wondering for months now if a ftm transexual gets arrested are they taken to the mens jail or the womans?
i know ir your a preop mtf they put you in the mens jail, and if you are a post op mtf they put you in the womans jail.
does the same apply for ftms? is it all about whats between your legs?
or how does that work for ftms???
Quote from: Nancy thompson. on November 05, 2011, 10:42:42 PM
Ive been wondering for months now if a ftm transexual gets arrested are they taken to the mens jail or the womans?
i know ir your a preop mtf they put you in the mens jail, and if you are a post op mtf they put you in the womans jail.
does the same apply for ftms? is it all about whats between your legs?
or how does that work for ftms???
They assign you according to the state of your genitalia.
My opinion on prisoners and the justice system is pretty well known, I think. The thought of my going to prison made me straighten the he** out quick. FAST. Super quick. To speak generally, the people who put you in there are probably as bad as you ever were, and more specific experience has helped me conclude that the people watching you are most times infinitely worse.
Quote from: Korlee on October 31, 2011, 10:23:03 AMThe classic strawman defense of -If can't understand because you haven't been there.- a very flawed viewpoint at best. I covered this in the other thread as well and do not quite feel like retyping it but god what an arrogant thing to say.
No, no it's really not. Words fail us, they just failed me, again.
the real problem I have with SRS for inmates is: are they really TS or is the same sex situation with all its pheromones and sex smells just messing with their heads and making them think they are TS when really they are just a bit towards bi/gay/tv and getting fooled by being in a sexy smelly place?
I seem to remember hearing a case of an inmate getting surgery but immediately out tried to taek the prison system to court as 'they should have known I wasn't TS.'
eh... sure it kinda sucks, but I think people in prison have a bit larger of a risk in not having the right bottom parts....
I'd rather have my tax dollars go to possibly prevent the shame and humiliation and all the other horrific things I can imagine a trans person could be subjected to in jail than to their hospital bills ect. afterwards.
Quote from: Nygeel on October 30, 2011, 11:35:11 AM
Simple answer is to go to a bank and rob them of one dollar. Go in, tell the bank teller that you're robbing them and want only singles. Take one dollar from the stack, tell the teller you're unarmed and walk out. Sit out front and wait for the cops.
I think a homeless guy got 15 years for doing just that.
Depending upon the jurisdiction, you might only get jail and not prison for that,
Especially because one could argue that that's theft and not burglary, since there's really no threat without a weapon and if you're not causing fear (Silly yes, but burglary is classified when fear is involved,)
...But anyway...
Now I kinda want to go to prison too >__O;
Why the hell do they get free bottom surgery? God-dammit...
Land of the free? Only when you're in prison >.<;;
Quote from: GentlemanRDP on November 06, 2011, 12:10:06 PM
...But anyway...
Now I kinda want to go to prison too >__O;
Why the hell do they get free bottom surgery? God-dammit...
Land of the free? Only when you're in prison >.<;;
I very much doubt you want to go to prison.
Quote from: Nancy thompson. on November 05, 2011, 10:42:42 PM
Ive been wondering for months now if a ftm transexual gets arrested are they taken to the mens jail or the womans?
I know ir your a preop mtf they put you in the mens jail, and if you are a post op mtf they put you in the womans jail.
does the same apply for ftms? is it all about whats between your legs?
or how does that work for ftms???
I assume that they would go off of whatever your LEGAL sex currently is. However, whether they go off your the legal sex on your birth certification (harder to change) or the legal sex on your driver's licence (easier to change), I don't know. That probably would depend on the policy of the institution.
It goes by "genital status" for everyone, regardless of legal documents
Quote from: Butterflyhugs on November 06, 2011, 03:18:24 PMIt goes by "genital status" for everyone, regardless of legal documents
Are you sure about that? Are you sure it wouldn't just go off of your sex on your birth certificate? Because I don't yet know of any states that will let you change your birth certification without SRS.
And if they simply just look in your pants to decide what prison you go to, that's not very definite because what about intersex people, or what about a FTM with very little bottom surgery done so it looks like they basically have both parts. It just gets confusing and there is no definite "yep you have a penis", it's all in between. But sex on birth certificate is a definite thing.
Quote from: JohnAlex on November 06, 2011, 05:21:12 PM
Are you sure about that? Are you sure it wouldn't just go off of your sex on your birth certificate? Because I don't yet know of any states that will let you change your birth certification without SRS.
Yes I'm sure. What about someone who gets SRS but doesn't get around to changing their birth certificate?
Bottom line, in the U.S., they aren't going to put someone with a vagina in a men's prison and they're not going to put someone with a penis in a women's prison. For now that's just the way it is (although there are people and groups, whom I support, actively working to change this).
QuoteAnd if they simply just look in your pants to decide what prison you go to, that's not very definite because what about intersex people, or what about a FTM with very little bottom surgery done so it looks like they basically have both parts. It just gets confusing and there is no definite "yep you have a penis", it's all in between. But sex on birth certificate is a definite thing.
I don't know how they handle intersex people. Google might be your friend if you really want to know that. I'm just saying what I do know, which is that currently in the U.S. you are put in prison according to your "genital status," regardless of how you present otherwise (in person or on documents).
Look at my face in my avatar. Female right? Reasonably attractive female perhaps? And I have big boobs too. My driver's license even says I'm female. But I'd go to a men's prison because of my genital status (pre-OP). Obviously the prospect terrifies me and I want to see it changed, but I'm 200% sure that's how it is right now.
I will say that at some places trans people are just put into their own area (usually solitary confinement).
Semi related...I do know there's a group that partners up queer people in prison with queer people not in prison as part of a way to help the mental health of queer prisoners. I would bet they have trans people who might want letters if people are interested.
Most individuals who are arrested sit in booking awaiting their DOJ paperwork to clear so they can be OR'd or post bail. If neither of those happen, they get housed. If a transgendered person came in, it would be a huge liability to house them in general population, they'd most likely go to administrative segregation or the medical unit.
Quote from: Epi on November 06, 2011, 06:47:47 PMIf a transgendered person came in, it would be a huge liability to house them in general population, they'd most likely go to administrative segregation or the medical unit.
A nice way of saying "solitary confinement," which is now considered cruel and unusual emotional torture :(
rob a bank if you succeed you can pay for bottom surgery if you fail you go to prison and get bottom surgery. ITS A WIN WIN.
hahahahha that's ->-bleeped-<-ing genius