I've seen a few people claiming that their feet shrank whilst on HRT, one person posted a couple of days ago that she dropped 2 sizes.
Is this common?
Is this even a real phenomenon?
I'd love for this to be true as i'm a size 10 (UK sizes) & as most of you will know once you go above size 9 your choices shrink to next to nothing or you end up paying through the nose for a nice pair of shoes.
I can fit into size 9's if they are open toed but I can only wear my size 9 boots for about an hour before i'm crippled, i'm hoping (praying) that HRT can reduce foot size as even a very slight reduction would enable me to buy size 9's & wear them comfortably.
Most importantly, if I could fit into 9's then it would open up a whole world of choice in shoes & boots, I would no longer have the angst of seeing a beautifull pair of shoes that would cripple me in a matter of minutes.
Does the shoe industry have a grudge against women with larger feet? Are they not allowed to feel good about their feet? Or do the shoe manufacturers see women with larger feet as cash cows?
Questions, questions
LOL. Yeah right! I doubt it. The bone structure does not change at all for any part of the body.
Shoe sizes vary so much in my opinion. I have shoes in size 7, 8, 9, and 10. It depends on the type of shoe and the brand/maker.
Quote from: JenJen2011 on November 08, 2011, 01:07:54 PM
LOL. Yeah right! I doubt it. The bone structure does not change at all for any part of the body.
That was what I was thinking, the foot is mostly bone with next to no fat to re-arrange itself so I cant see how someones feet will shrink.
I know that some people do have fat feet so maybe their fat content drops in the foot area?? My feet are big & bony so I doubt i'll notice any change.
I'm 4 months away from my first appointment at the gender clinic & will have to wait at least 3 months before they consider HRT so it will be a while before I can answer this from my own perspective.
Before I start HRT I will be measuring my feet down to the nearest thousands of an inch with a vernier to see if I can kick this question into the kerb or verify other peoples claims.
Surely bone structure plays a major part in foot size & as Jen said HRT will not change bones, this is why I mentioned about some people having fat feet (i'm not implying that you had fat feet before HRT).
Please lets not have this devolve into an argument, I get enough of that from my mother any time my transition enters the conversation & I come here to get away from that.
Peace to you both
Since I started HRT my feet have shrank just a tiny amount.
Since Sevan started HRT hir feet have grown just a tiny amount.
Before transition we had only a 1/2 size diferance in our shoe size now we are both the same size.
Yay for a doubling of my shoe selection!!!
Quote from: Laura91 on November 08, 2011, 01:25:21 PM
All I did was tell of my experience and you have to be an ...... about it? What the hell would I stand to gain by spinning a yarn about shoe sizes? I am fully aware of the difference in shoe sizes depending on the brand. Every pair of tennis shoes I have tried in a size 11 look like clown shoes on my feet where they all looked fine before NO MATTER WHAT BRAND IT WAS.
I don't play stupid games on the internet for my own amusement so don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say a single thing about bones.
:icon_pissed:
My post was directed to the OP, not you.
Quote from: cynthialee on November 08, 2011, 01:43:38 PM
Since I started HRT my feet have shrank just a tiny amount.
Since Sevan started HRT hir feet have grown just a tiny amount.
Before transition we had only a 1/2 size diferance in our shoe size now we are both the same size.
Yay for a doubling of my shoe selection!!!
I'm still sceptical about feet shrinking due to bones & all that but 1/2 a size would put me into size 9's & that would be a dream come true.
I'm not trying to cast doubt on either yours or Lauras post as i'm not in your shoes. . . . . pun was intended :D
Yep... it happens. After about 1.5 years of HRT I went from a guy's size 10.5 US to a women's size 9.0 US. I've also lost about 2 inches in my height as well. The decrease in shoe size for me was an EPIC WIN... as I have an super, duper, insanely, un-imaginably huge, shoe habit. I love em.
:D
Quote from: JennX on November 08, 2011, 02:52:15 PM
I have an super, duper, insanely, un-imaginably huge, shoe habit. I love em.
:D
I know where you are coming from there, I spend hours looking at shoes online & cant walk past a shoe shop without seeing a pair (or 10) that I would love to own if they did them in my heffalump size ;D
I generally turn into the cookie monster of shoes. . . . SHOES, SHOES, SHOES!!!!!!!!!!!!
feel free to use the Terry Pratchett rules of exclamation marks in my signature to rate my sanity, or lack of
I think it is a matter of muscle mass that changes the feet that 1/4-1/2 shoe shize that seems to be common.
The bones are set and won't grow anymore, but add or subtract some muscle due to HRT and the size can change a smidge.
Or you can be like me and have Neuropathy. My feet have narrowed some, but have gotten longer due to weakening of the bones through Charcot Disease and Osteoporosis.
If you're less than 20, with a big bucket of luck, it can happen. The bones, I mean. But I mean it. A big bucket of luck.
Past that, any shrinkage is muscle only. See on the outside side of your feet. There's a soft area, right ? Past the small toe. That can shrink, which would make your feet more slender, thus fitting thinner shoes. If the LENGTH reduces, you've either gotten used to smaller shoes, have found a bigger-sized brand or have been bestowed a miracle. Or maybe the soft part of the heel can shrink, minorly reducing the length, but... Well, in any case, you should not expect it. If it happens, take it like a happy surprise.
Quote from: A on November 08, 2011, 07:34:52 PM
If you're less than 20, with a big bucket of luck, it can happen. The bones, I mean. But I mean it. A big bucket of luck.
Past that, any shrinkage is muscle only. See on the outside side of your feet. There's a soft area, right ? Past the small toe. That can shrink, which would make your feet more slender, thus fitting thinner shoes. If the LENGTH reduces, you've either gotten used to smaller shoes, have found a bigger-sized brand or have been bestowed a miracle. Or maybe the soft part of the heel can shrink, minorly reducing the length, but... Well, in any case, you should not expect it. If it happens, take it like a happy surprise.
Umm... I'm 28, started HRT more than a year ago... and more than just soft tissue has shrank. Almost 3 shoe sizes smaller is more than losing width and muscle mass alone. Do a search here on this forum, it has happened before. Everyone's physiology is different, and yes being younger will effect the outcome... as with most all things HRT related. Same with my height. My endo has charted my height decrease as well.
YMMV.
Thanks for sharing this. Interesting. I thought it was super rare. It's good news! I sure wish something amazing like that happened to me.
That's a very good point about muscle reduction, I hadn't considered it.
I'm going to start saying my prayers every night, even a reduction of 1/4 size would make it possible for me to buy & comfortably wear size 9's, I can wear them for short periods but they are generaly a fraction too tight
dont forget cartilage is smaller in females and bigger in males so hormones do playa role in shrinkage of cartilage, i think it is possible ;)
I have heard of the explanation that it´s the cartilage that can shrink. I was hoping for that since my joints are way too loose anyway :) and I am often also in the border of being able to fit my shoe in the biggest size which normal stores have. But after 2 years of hrt it has not happened.
I think your actual footwear my make a difference. Chunky boy tennis shoes my keep your feet bigger. Last year I read an article in Outside magazine about barefoot running. There was a runner whose feet shrunk 2 sizes by running barefoot. While athletic shoes may be comfortable the actually can be bad for the health of you feet. I think that with hrt and getting away from boy shoes your feet can shrink. Mine are a half size smaller mostly from Hrt, as I'm not full-time and I'm stuck wearing depressing boy shoes.
I really doubt you're right. Actually, what's bad for the health is the prolonged use of high heels. They are no good for the back. But boy's shoes are actually bigger and have more space in them than most girl's. So they're closer to being barefoot. Then why would being barefoot shrink feet ? It doesn't male sense.
Though maybe wearing tighter shoes - and not necessarily girl's - shoes could possibly have a mild chinese-feet-binding-like effect after being "softened" by HRT or something.
Hate to be the bringer of bad news..........but your feet actually increase in size over the years/decades.
A combination of gravity and walking and standing a lot on them makes them spread sideward and up en downward from the heel to the toe over the years.
Ask any 50+ GG or genetic man about what shoesize they wore in earlier days and yes, they currently wear a bigger size than back then.
Mostly they contribute their bigger shoesize to weightgain, but that doesn't play a major role in 'growing' feet over the years.
The 'good news' is, is that a lot of shoeshops in Amsterdam/Holland sell (very) fashoniably ladies shoes and boots up until size 44 (don't what it translates to in USA/British shoesize.....size 11 I think)
I myself went from a shoesize 41 to a size 42 in 2 decades of wearing ladies shoes. And being on hormones for more than 2 decades that is...
And oh, your nose and ears grow bigger too over the years. Cartilage also keeps growing slowly over the years and combined with gravity......your nosetip starts to sag in combination with growing bulkier and your earlobes start to sag.
Interestingly.......it looks like a nose or earjob 'arrests' cartilage growth....but a 'young' looking nosejob in an older face looks very weird easthetically.
We are lucky on that point though. Since we're not having a menopause, our face doesn't age as much.
Quote from: A on November 10, 2011, 04:25:12 PM
We are lucky on that point though. Since we're not having a menopause, our face doesn't age as much.
Ehm, yes, our faces age too....and actually faces of
ALL people, whether female, male or post op MTF age in a masculinizing way.
The patterns of wrinkling and sagging are the same, the fatloss in our faces, the thinning hair in post menopausal born women AND post op MTF too..the sagging and jowling are the same........etcetc.
And yes, in post menopause GG's. genetic men AND MTF's (non nose and earjob) the nose(tip) and ears age too.
Take a close look at the faces of eldery genetic men and genetic women (and MTF) and you'll see that they don't differ as much from each other as very young children.
Only the clothes, hairstyle etc are indicators of their sex. Not their facial features (anymore)
In our MTF case the (rapid) aging of our faces is slowed down because of HRT, where as GG's can age overnight during and after menopause but stil...no escape for us over the coming years.
Trust me, I've seen it close up in GG's, genetic men AND aging MTF's.
Oh well, if my feet could shrink and then grow back to the size they are now when I get older... that's not bad at all.
I do think that weight has a massive role to play concerning the growing of shoe sizes, though. It's happened to me before, even at my younger age... I'll be like 5 pounds overweight, which I am at about right now actually, and I notice that my shoes seem a bit "smaller". Lose that weight and it feels a little more spacey.
I was very skeptic when I heard about this shrinking feet possibility but now that it has been happening to me I am more open to the possibility. I can't claim any shrinkage of 2 sizes or similar but my feet have definitely become rather slender and a little bit shorter. May be a half size smaller but optically there is definitely a difference. I don't wear drastically different type of shoes either. My weight has not changed but my bodily shape changed a lot. So I think the same thing is happening to my feet.
I'm sorry to contradict you Dahlia, but menopause and andropause account for part of the aging of the face. I'm not saying we don't age; we're just saved from a part of it.
Jane's comment about shoes hit home. I love shoes, that's the first thing I see. I just bid on another pair on Ebay today. I can't have enough pairs, because I keep seeing another pair that I want. I'm running out of secret storage room in my basement; gonna have to reconfigure soon.
Regards,
Velece
I used to be a US size 10.5 women's, now I'm size 9. Got myself measured the other day at a shoe store. Also have shrunk in height. Used to be about 5'6.5" tall. Got measure at work the other day for a health fair. I'm now 5'5" bang on the nose.
A big thank you to everyone for your replies.
It's good to hear that many of you have experienced foot shrinkage, it's a shame no-one knows the reason it happens for some & not others though.
Regarding growing old, i've lived in a shell for my whole life & once the shell has been discarded i'm going to grow old disgracefully >:-) so i'm not bothered about ageing
@mrkitty I sympathise with your shoe addiction, I don't know which is the most addictive part, buying them or trying on a new pair for the first time :laugh:
I also have had some strange shrinkage and my GP is confused! I was comfortable UK size 9, 27.5cm and now dropped to 7, 25.5. I also used to be 177cm and on a good day I'm 173 and bad 174cm I'm nowhere near my original height. My only thought is that particularly with the height issue, is that the soft tissue in between the vertebrae has shrunk, and that' where the loss has come from, as for feet no idea; it was a very pleasant surprise!
Quote from: RachelH on November 11, 2011, 03:50:22 PM
I also have had some strange shrinkage and my GP is confused! I was comfortable UK size 9, 27.5cm and now dropped to 7, 25.5. I also used to be 177cm and on a good day I'm 173 and bad 174cm I'm nowhere near my original height. My only thought is that particularly with the height issue, is that the soft tissue in between the vertebrae has shrunk, and that' where the loss has come from, as for feet no idea; it was a very pleasant surprise!
Ehm ever heard of osteoporosis? It made me shrink from 1.76.5cm to 1.74cm
over a course of almost 25 years of being on hormones.I've managed to put it on hold over
the last 5 years, walking stairways as much as I can, using extra calcium, vit D etc.
I've never heard of shrinking feet while being on hormones, just like I've never heard of a shrinking brow ridge for instance. It seems more like wishful thinking to me ;-)
And if you're
really shrinking +/- 4cm's in height in a relatively short time on hormones and your GP 'doesn't understand it'......then you'll need to find yourself a more educated GP.
Then there's the matter of perception: I was considered a short (very feminine) man pre transition. I was told so all the time. Now I'm considered a tall (1.74cm, walking up straight) woman. I'm frequently told so.
BTW: I've neverd heard about a post menopause GG on HRT about her 'shrinking feet' too...height, yes, but due to osteoporis...
Quote from: A on November 10, 2011, 07:21:14 PM
I'm sorry to contradict you Dahlia, but menopause and andropause account for part of the aging of the face. I'm not saying we don't age; we're just saved from a part of it.
Correct.
One of the reasons why the skin in biological females age, is, among other causes, because the production of Estrogen decreases, which causes the soft-tissues in the body to become less and less elastic, which in its turn also makes the skin less resistent towards gravity that also is a factor in ageing.
And not only the skin, but other factors aswell. A Cardiologist that was working with Harry Benjamin and also had investigated several T-Patients, was quoted in Benjamin's book "The Transsexual Phenomena" as saying that;
Quoteit may be most interesting in future years to watch these patients who have received estrogen over a long period of time. Will they be less prone to develop coronary heart disease and other circulatory ailments that go with the process of aging? A well-known cardiologist, noted for his research in cholesterol metabolism, who had occasion to see a number of transsexuals under estrogen therapy, remarked jokingly, "These people will probably live forever."
What concerns shrinking feet in male to females, its old news and nothing weird at all. For, just as others have already explained earlier in the thread, it is not the skeletal tissue that shrinks but the soft-tissues, as the Chemical Castration that the HRT induces basically causes the soft-tissues to atrofy, while Testosterone instead causes it to do the opposite; To increase, which is also the reason why FTM-guys not seldomly report experiecing growing feet, as the skin and musclestissues in the feets grows.
Which reminds me, by the way, about the MTFTM-Detransitioner Josef Kirchner, that, after having de-transitioned back to living as a man again and starting Testosterone-injections, went up three shoe-sizes and went from a size 10 to a size 13, just from Testosterone.
Someone also wondered why not all T-persons experience a shrinkage, which is probably because they already had very non-masculated soft-tissues from the start.
Yes, your feet shrink, but the size change is just due to soft tissue in the feet shrinking from HRT... not the bones. You won't lose more than a size or two, and probably just because of the width.