RT News: 'US Zombie Empire' - American Government Doesn't serve or Fear the People (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le0icWOxYG8&feature=related#)
It is a very middle class thing to believe that the government loves you and seeks at all times to do you good. The working and upper class know the truth about government. As most Americans consider themselves to be middle-class that might explain why so many are so unwilling to see the truth. The middle classes have been seduced by the government and as a consequence they want to be taken care of by local and central government. Deep down in the heart of a middle class person there is a belief that government will look after you, but in return you must always support the institution of government and do whatever it tells you and believe whatever it tells you to believe.
America is becoming the 'Evil Empire that we have been fighting' for years
Good and evil doesn't have a grey zone. Killing and stealing is bad. Violence is never "good" or necessary unless it is used to defend against killers and thieves. Indeed, that is the morality behind the "just war" principle as defined by international laws and treaties.
Yet, this simple concept of right and wrong gets muddled by differing ideas about religion, patriotism, economics and many other divisions. The "just war" rule has crumbled under the ambitions of empires throughout history. The American-led Anglo Saxon empire is no different.
This empire has been brutally conquering and colonizing territory since the fall of Rome. However, it has only gained an American face in the last century. The United States quickly emerged as the world's "superpower" primarily through its economic might. For some time, many believed the U.S. to be a shining example of economic freedom for other nations to emulate. Indeed, America was eager to promote "economic freedom" globally to open new markets for U.S.-based corporations.
When foreign leaders refused to allow these corporate interests into their country, those leaders were replaced through a variety of covert actions. The form of government that would be installed did not matter to the empire makers so long as the corporate interests were served. In most cases these nations simply surrendered to the seemingly unlimited power of the almighty dollar, thus camouflaging the traditional method of forceful empire building.
However, some nations, especially in the last two decades, remained stubborn and have refused to alter their banking systems while also shunning Western companies. Despite the empire's best efforts to diplomatically bribe or sanction them into submission, they ultimately required an iron military fist to force their compliance. Until recently, military action remained the last resort. But now, preemptive military action seems to have become the preferred, and perhaps necessary, method to conquer the last resource-rich nations out of their grasp.
The empire's populations cheered this strategy out of fear of being attacked by these rogue nations who never attacked or even threatened to attack them. In the fog of fear, killing and stealing became acceptable. In fact, detention without charges and even torture became acceptable in the former capital of freedom. America has determined that the means justifies the end -- which is more power.
As with all empires, these "means" have become increasingly violent and destructive in the face of resistance. Yet, only a few more dominoes are left to knock over for America to complete a plan set in motion well before they were one of the colonies. That is unless, of course, other world powers break ranks and attempt to stop the conquerors, which could lead to a large scale conflict.
Regardless, when the dust settles and moral history is written, America and her Western cohorts will likely be viewed as the most brutal empire in history. Here are ten reasons why this is already the case:
Rumsfeld with Saddam Hussein 1983
1. Support of Dictators: For all the happy talk of spreading Democracy and protecting human rights, the empire has repeatedly not only supported dictators, but in many cases overthrew popularly elected leaders and replaced them with puppet tyrants. Examples range from secretly funding the Nazis, to installing the Shah in Iran, Pinochet in Chile, supporting Musharraf in Pakistan, and their everlasting love affair with the brutal Saudi royal family, to name a few. Actions speak louder than words to those who can navigate the storm of propaganda with a moral compass set to recognize good from evil. Dictators and freedom cannot coexist.
2. Preemptive Wars of Aggression: It could be said that all wars are preemptive in nature because so many entities benefit from war. Yet, even before America's latest crusades, they covertly and surgically attacked countries that never threatened them. This allowed them to maintain the moral high road in the public's eye while constructing the foundation of their empire. That was until the Bush Doctrine; the use of preemptive military action to confront possible threats was unofficially adopted to be the new foreign policy for combating terror. Since then, America has become the violent aggressors, having officially invaded two countries -- Afghanistan and Iraq -- without legitimate provocation. Violent aggressors have always been judged by history as evil. But it gets worse....
3. Torture: Torture has never been acceptable by those promoting a high moral standing in the global community. Nazis and Japanese soldiers were convicted and executed for engaging in the exact same torture techniques that America has redefined as 'enhanced interrogation'. "I was just following orders," was not a justifiable excuse for such inhumane behavior, much like it wasn't a good enough defense for the low-ranking patsies who took the heat for the sinister Abu Ghraib torture scandal even though their actions wereapproved at the highest levels. Can state-sanctioned torture of prisoners held without charges ever be viewed as anything less than brutal?
4. Suppression of Dissent: All tyrannical regimes throughout history have suppressed homeland dissent. As government oppression grows bolder at home and abroad, more citizens will naturally express outrage, resulting in even more oppressive controls. This is happening in the United States through the all-seeing eye of the Department of Homeland Security with warrantless spying, arbitrary watch lists, citizen spy campaigns, and TSA molestation to travel anywhere. Additionally, in an attempt to squash free speech, they arbitrarily seize websites and violently confront peaceful protesters. Unfortunately, as awareness of the topics in this very article expands, the U.S. will likely become even bolder in their pursuit of stifling dissent. In other words, the worst is yet to come, and history will judge the U.S. as not quite the beacon of freedom they have pretended to be.
5. Elimination of Habeas Corpus: Say goodbye to the notion of being innocent until proven guilty, the right to face charges and your accuser, and the right to a free and fair trial. Habeas corpus, considered the only humane path to "which a prisoner can be released from unlawful detention," has been eliminated for those vaguely labeled 'enemy combatants' of the empire. As Guantanamo prisoners rot under such pretenses, prominent lawmakers in the empire propose the exact same lack of rights for American citizens if they're labeled an 'enemy belligerent'. Similar to the Spanish Inquisition, now you're guilty until you're tortured to admit your guilt. Can it get more evil? Why yes, it can. Read on.
6. Assassinating Citizens: That's right. No judge, no jury, no conviction; just straight to execution. America has set another precedent in their tyrannical march toward empire when they openly assassinated an American citizen and government patsy, Anwar al-Awlaki, and his teenage son on the suspicion of terrorism. Paul Craig Roberts laments "Now the US government not only can seize a US citizen and confine him in prison for the rest of his life without ever presenting evidence and obtaining a conviction, but also can have him shot down in the street or blown up by a drone." Isn't this the reason America claims to be knocking off dictators around the world -- the deliberate killing of their own citizens?
But Awlaki was a bad apple because the intelligence community said so. What's most telling that America will continue this wickedness is that almost every US lawmaker turned a blind eye to the grotesque violation of Constitutional rights. Only Ron Paul said that assassinating an American citizen without charges is nothing less than an "impeachable offense". Too bad most of the country cheered the Awlaki killing as a "victory" in the war on terror, indicating that it is now an acceptable tactic. Americans beware: you may be moved from a secret watch list to a secret kill list in this brutal empire.
7. Unauthorized Drone Wars: Unprovoked wars without authorization, accountability, or independent oversight only seem to be escalating; and with little resistance. The US Congress no longer votes to "declare war". They simply give the Commander in Chief broad "authorization" to use force against specific nations. However, even that is not broad enough in the rapid pursuit of empire. Now, joystick warriors directed by the CIA and Pentagon have targeted at least three countries with "unauthorized" military strikes; Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia. Even worse, they waged a full-scale war for regime change and resource plundering in Libya without any authority inside the United States. Under the NATO flag, which is 75% funded by the U.S., they flew over 9200 strike sorties in Libya to illegally topple Gaddafi. Drunk with success, the bloodthirsty empire marches on to their next preemptive targets, Syria and Iran. Quick morality check: unprovoked killing and stealing as a first resort is still wrong, right?
8. Use of Weapons of Mass Destruction: How ironic that the world's policeman for weapons of mass destruction is the only one to use them on a mass scale. The United States is on record using chemical, biological and even nuclear weapons. From the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII, to Monsanto's Agent Orange in Vietnam, to the depleted uranium used in Afghanistan and Iraq, America only condemns itself when speaking about the evils of WMDs. However, killers don't appear to care how the killing is accomplished, so long as it achieves their goals. The real firecrackers will likely be brought out in a confrontation with Iran, or if China and Russia are lured into the conflict. It won't really matter much what history says if the use of WMD escalates by either side, but the aggressors should rightly be blamed for the ensuing scorched earth, while the defenders against killers and thieves should be viewed as righteous.
9. World's Largest Drug Dealer: The American empire is the largest drug dealer in the world? Say it isn't so. Well, in addition to forcing legal drugs and genetically modified organisms on nations, usually under the cover of foreign aid, America also leads in the illegal drug trade. In fact, many researchers reveal that the war on drugs is only utilized to control and monopolize the illicit drug trade. The US government has been caught multiple times shipping in cocaine, colluding with certain cartels to control the industry, and now openly protects and transports opium from Afghanistan. In fact, Global Research points out that in 2001, "according to UN figures, opium production had fallen to 185 tons. Immediately following the October 2001 US led invasion, production increased dramatically, regaining its historical levels." This month, the U.N. announcedthat Afghanistan now provides 93% of the world's opium production; up 61% compared to 2010 to a whopping 5800 tonnes. Although the empire tries to keep it secret, they can't hide the hypocrisy forever.
10. World Reserve Currency Prison: Although using Weapons of Mass Debt is a non-violent form of expanding the empire, it's perhaps the most brutal and effective form of control. Requiring foreign nations to purchase oil and other imported commodities with US dollars wields immense power. Because all nations must acquire dollars to purchase critical resources, they quickly become indebted to the US Federal Reserve, their affiliate central banks, and the IMF. Before long, the entire world is colonized by debt. It seems that only the nations that don't need or refuse credit from Western banking institutions are the ones in danger of facing the wrath of the imperial war machine. Incidentally, most oil-rich nations in the Middle East have outlawed usury (lending money with interest), making them impossible to conquer diplomatically through debt. Controlling the world reserve currency means controlling the tap of life itself, which is a dangerous weapon in the hands of an aggressive empire. Debt is the ultimate WMD the empire uses to enslave the world, which leaves dissidents with two clear choices: slavery or death.
Although this empire is infinitely more powerful than Rome was, it will likely suffer the same fate. For every negative action the empire commits, there's an equal and opposite good reaction. And the goodness of humanity will always defeat tyranny when it goes too far. However, an empire with so much to lose will go down swinging and slinging every weapon in its arsenal, thus putting the final stamp on their status as most brutal empire in history.
Funny... under R. Regan it was the USSR that was the "Evil Empire"
Seems you (US) are getting it right back?
US moralist, (good & evil), exceptionalist (we are the exception to the rest of the world), idealist (we will do it better then the rest) ... has finally caught up with the US.
The moralist, exceptionalist, idealist mind-set is a dangerous one - it assumes coming from a place of 'perfection' --- and... hold on a second... who is actually perfect?! The US government? Oh really?
"Balance of Power" and "Real Politik" is finally going to come even to the US... methinks.
Thoughts from the blue chair,
Axelle
PS: why do I keep thinking of the Catholic church... good & evil, moralist, idealist, exeptionalist, PERFECTIONIST...
An evil empire and a hideous bully.
Oh, haven't we noticed how to bully seems so OK - in the name of "moral superiority"?
Happens all the time, - welcome to "bible-belt-thinking".
Axelle
If you want to know why, follow the money.
You convinced me. I agree :'( ;D :D ;) ???
America isn't an evil empire.
It is a largely isolated society, isolated by geography, history and its culture. It is continually being agitated with stories that to the rest of the world are preposterus, yet it can somehow believe. Then, egged on by the likes of the UK, Australia and others, seems more than willing to send its own kids, paid for out of its own pockets, to fight and die in far away lands for causes they don't understand and which don't matter to them at all.
America is a perfect example of collective insanity. A notion that is often dismissed by psychologists but which social observers understand well. An indication of how serious this is is that any disagreement from the standard view is met with automatic rebuff, generally accusing the questioner of being in league with the enemy. During the Communist era, for example, any disagreement was a sign of being a communist. Even now, few dare even indicate some of the more obvious flaws in 9-11 and the aftermath.
It's so utterly sad. Americans are, generally, some of the most generous, welcoming people anywhere. Yet they seem more than ready to accept almost any postulate, without question, and send yet more sons to die overseas.
The real problems will start when the American people eventually wake up and realise they've been suckered so badly.
The history books of the future are going to be an absolute screem. I can just imagine some satirical headline of 200 years from now. 'Throw another American boy on the fire'.
The level of modern technology has given the tyrant of today a level of power unrivaled in the history of man.
There will be no liberation from this Empire. It is the last Empire on earth. It will eventually encompase the entire globe. Disidents will be rounded up and silenced slowly carefully and it will not raise many eyebrows.
200 years from now your grandchildrens grandchildren will live under a total dictatorship. Every facet of their lives will be preplaned by the powers that be. Down to free time. Which will be scarce.
People will not even know or believe that they do not have freedom. They will be druged and controled with propaganda. History will be controled and access to the real history of man (how the Empire became the Global hegemony) will be controled and sanitized.
Even the highest levels of the pyramid will have no freedom or control. Their actions and likely even their very thoughts will be monitored by whatever passes for police.
Every human in the future will be pre planed. Birth by acident will not ever happen. Chances are even so grim that Brave New World eugenics seem likely.
As it stands, the people couldn't stop the powers that be even if there was a popular revolution. The fighters will be quashed in a trice. You can not fight a tank or 'puff the magic dragon' with your pappies shot gun. Even if you had every redneck in the country with a rifle standing to fight there is no way to win. If it even looks like the powers that be are going to go down they WILL resort to nuclear tactics.
I have played enough war game simulations (most of my life) to know what happens when men have the ultimate power. They will use the bomb if things turn against them. This is simple human nature and the way power reacts to being deposed.
Sorry to be so grim.
Enjoy what time you have left with what few freedoms you have. The future generations will never know freedom again.
People will not even know or believe care that they do not have freedom, so long as they are told they have security. They will be druged and controlled via media and the best part is we don't even have to force them, they choose to do it themselves.
FIFY
And we're out of cheep energy, and sooner rather than later. That's what brings the Empire down.
Quote from: tekla on November 30, 2011, 09:53:22 AM
And we're out of cheep energy, and sooner rather than later. That's what brings the Empire down.
That and the infrastructure failing, which it already is. We need the tax money to give big tax breaks to heavy political donors and infrastructure is one of the necessities that got funding cuts.
So how long does history show an empire usually lasts?
500 years max, and that was in the Ancient Regime when power was a bit easier to hold on to.
Yet they seem more than ready to accept almost any postulate, without question, and send yet more sons to die overseas.
Because, unlike Europe, we don't want to have those wars on our soil. We fought WWI in Europe, WWII in Europe, and god willing, we'll fight WWIII there too.
Oil is almost depleted. True.
There is only about 75 years worth of fissable materiale left. True.
But the sun will shine on long after mankind has evolved off of this rock or out right become extinct. There is plenty of energy to harvest.
However...the powers that be will keep a close tight fisted grip on energy in the future. Percieved scarcity is scarcity. And a scarce resourse fetches top dollar.
Quote from: Julie Marie on November 30, 2011, 10:01:46 AM
That and the infrastructure failing, which it already is. We need the tax money to give big tax breaks to heavy political donors and infrastructure is one of the necessities that got funding cuts.
So how long does history show an empire usually lasts?
The Roman Empire, secularly lasted until 1453 but a few would argue 1917. Religiously, it lasted through 1806.
The western powers are the legacy and inherators of Rome.
Go through the history books and track the money.
Look at our state buildings.
Look at the style of our legal system.
We even have our bread and circuses.
We are Rome.
Quote from: Annah on November 30, 2011, 10:09:22 AM
The Roman Empire, secularly lasted until 1453 but a few would argue 1917. Religiously, it lasted through 1806.
Actually the Roman Empire morphed into the Catholic Church who continues to wage war and conquer today just like the Romans did centuries ago. And the Catholic Church is very big in the Ol' USA. Come to think of it, the US kinda does the same thing.
Hail Emperor Baracus Obamus!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuppitywoman08.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F08%2F1obamas-got-talent56.jpg&hash=37140be0bf94cb54e46c277d2c4bf56d23c4820d)
The Empire Lives ! Resistance is futile.
Gaius Arrius Belisarius
Quote from: cynthialee on November 30, 2011, 10:26:17 AM
The western powers are the legacy and inherators of Rome.
Go through the history books and track the money.
Look at our state buildings.
Look at the style of our legal system.
We even have our bread and circuses.
We are Rome.
The world is Rome, the christian lost at the end
Quote from: Julie Marie on November 30, 2011, 10:28:26 AM
Actually the Roman Empire morphed into the Catholic Church who continues to wage war and conquer today just like the Romans did centuries ago. And the Catholic Church is very big in the Ol' USA. Come to think of it, the US kinda does the same thing.
Hail Emperor Baracus Obamus!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuppitywoman08.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F08%2F1obamas-got-talent56.jpg&hash=37140be0bf94cb54e46c277d2c4bf56d23c4820d)
Yes, I know the Roman State became the Roman Church....hence my last comment here.
The last time I checked, the Roman Catholic Church was centralized in the Vatican City State within the country of Italy. Not America.
Also, before pointing out the demonization of the Roman Catholic church, look into other religions as well and ourselves. We are all guilty of it.
funny...I can't remember the last time a witch burned a christian at the stake or had her beheaded
wonder when the last time it happened to a witch by a christian?
oh yeah we wern't gonna talk about that....
Quote from: cynthialee on December 01, 2011, 11:00:27 PM
funny...I can't remember the last time a witch burned a christian at the stake or had her beheaded
wonder when the last time it happened to a witch by a christian?
oh yeah we wern't gonna talk about that....
Some religions use words as well as the sword to condemn people and words are just as damaging as the strongest sword.
I am Wiccan. I am ordained as a Priestess and I am a 3rd degree witch. Trust me when I say this, there has been countless times when a Wiccan had bashed another person next to me simply because that person was a Christian...and the Christian said nothing to them to warrant such a response. I had to remove one witch from a coven I was part of because all she contributed to our coven was negative energy from her constant bitching and complaining about Christians and Jews. I have seen just as many fundamentalist Wiccans as I have fundamentalist Christians. The numbers are higher for fundamentalist Christians because there are more of them. But for ratio, it is dead even.
No one religion is innocent and anyone can be victims or persecutors. It has to do with power and responsibility. I have been in enough covens to tell you beyond a shadow of doubt and without hesitation that if Wiccas, other witches, or Pagans somehow became the "State Religion" there will be temptations and falling from grace from within the Pagan community just as it had been with Christians, Muslims, Jewish, etc. Power corrupts.
And you ask when the last time a witch (or more widely, a pagan) burned a a Christian, behead them or put them to a stake? It happened from 50 CE to 313 CE. It happened because they were the state religion. They had all the cards.
It happens in every religion where that religion becomes part of the state.
So no, it is not just Christians. This is 8 years of Religious History talking. Not just ramblings from my mouth.
and words are just as damaging as the strongest sword.
Bull->-bleeped-<-. Let me hit you with a sword and see if that kind of vapid crap holds up in reality. You'd be screaming to Jesus at the Bar to give me some words and take that sword the hell out of my hand.
Define: your concept of Evil
Define: your concept of Empire
If you truly wish to have an interesting debate can you define what you wish to debate.
Random thoughts are just that. People forget this. You can only truly debate the interpretation of facts. Otherwise you are debating opinion.
Going to bed.
Cindy
Quote from: tekla on December 02, 2011, 05:14:08 AM
Bull->-bleeped-<-. Let me hit you with a sword and see if that kind of vapid crap holds up in reality. You'd be screaming to Jesus at the Bar to give me some words and take that sword the hell out of my hand.
Yeah, but the skilled wielder of the spoken word can work insidiously behind the curtain and cause harm in other ways without ever putting themselves in jeopardy.
We have no problem stopping, arresting and incarcerating the person who causes obvious physical harm but we are slow to act when one's civil rights are harmed. And that does nothing to discourage those who have a propensity to deny you your civil rights simply because you aren't like them.
Vile words and violence are not the same.
If I tear into someone and make their feelings hurt it is no where near as damageing as being killed.
I am also Wicca and to hear anouther wiccan make excuses for christians is just mind blowing.
Quote from: tekla on December 02, 2011, 05:14:08 AM
and words are just as damaging as the strongest sword.
Bull->-bleeped-<-. Let me hit you with a sword and see if that kind of vapid crap holds up in reality. You'd be screaming to Jesus at the Bar to give me some words and take that sword the hell out of my hand.
So many LGBT people kill themselves because of bullying. And much of that bullying comes from words. I thought you were smarter than that, tekla.
Quote from: cynthialee on December 02, 2011, 08:24:57 AM
Vile words and violence are not the same.
If I tear into someone and make their feelings hurt it is no where near as damageing as being killed.
Say that to Jamey Rodemeyer, Megan Meier, Phoebe Prince, and countless of other people who killed themselves because of the hateful things said to them. I am sure that death is the same kind of death a sword makes.
QuoteI am also Wicca and to hear anouther wiccan make excuses for christians is just mind blowing.
Excuses? No, not at all. Glorifying everything wicca and making anything christian to look evil? I don't play that game. There are good things and evil things that happen in both Christianity and Paganism. You should see that rather than pointing your finger at one religion and then using your energies about how bad they are.
You wanted to know when the last time a Pagan killed, beheaded, staked a Christian. I told you. I can give you written accounts of those who were killed for being a Christian by the hands of Pagans if you wish. There are quite a few.
I respect all religions and I see the beauty of diversity in many things. I don't just adhere to a faith and bash the hell out of another one. That's rather immature and it's no different than a fundamentalist southern baptist doing it.
In case one doubts I am both a Wiccan and working in a UCC church:
Here is one of three altars in my Seminary apartment:
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My front door:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7158%2F6442409785_aaa44bcbc4.jpg&hash=fdd3b2e9c52bd1bb06dd50a623ee0cba01bc6a57)
In the Sacristy at the church preparing the Eucharist:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7160%2F6442409857_9fe27bcf01.jpg&hash=7eef9c68e482839b3414d1ae5dda9b142e55f812)
And both the Pagans and the Christians know I respect each other. And I am not the only one trying to bridge the gap between Christians and Pagans. A musician has done the same thing with the youtube video I made The Pagans and The Christians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktOsqAFSuyU#).
and in my oppinion lol this is the reason the best religion is no religion i take my peace from my own conversations with a higher power any attempt at organized religion eventually brings pain loss war and of course death
jessi
Quote from: cynthialee on November 30, 2011, 10:07:48 AM
Oil is almost depleted. True.
There is only about 75 years worth of fissable material left. True.
But the sun will shine on long after mankind has evolved off of this rock or out right become extinct. There is plenty of energy to harvest.
However...the powers that be will keep a close tight-fisted grip on energy in the future. Perceived scarcity is scarcity. And a scarce resource fetches top dollar.
NuclearPowerDaily.com estimated ("How Much Longer Will World Reserves Of The Nuclear Fuel Uranium Last?") that there exists in excess of 200 years worth of fissile material in existence.
Cheap oil is almost depleted, but there remains an abundant supply of hydrocarbon fuels in the form of oil shale, oil sands, tar sands, and deep gas, with several supergiant (fields >1 billion barrels oil equivalent) discoveries in the past few years.
You make a good point, however, when you note that alternative energy sources have unlimited potential. Solar, tidal, wind, and OTEC all have applications to supplement hydrocarbon and nuclear energy - but at what cost?
Quote from: spacial on November 30, 2011, 09:13:53 AM
America isn't an evil empire...
You could have stopped there.
America was the beacon for the demise of despotic monarchsm, fought a bloody civil war to eliminate slavery, defeated totalitarian fascism, Asian militarism, and the Soviet hegemony. America is holding the line against Maoist communism and Islamofascism.
American is not perfect, but it had played the central role is freeing more people than any other society in history.
Quote from: Jamie D on December 03, 2011, 12:54:09 AMYou make a good point, however, when you note that alternative energy sources have unlimited potential. Solar, tidal, wind, and OTEC all have applications to supplement hydrocarbon and nuclear energy - but at what cost?
A greener earth... priceless.
Today we always talk about the cost of making something better compared to the cost of doing nothing, at the moment. There was a time when we looked into the future and said, "We need to do this," and we did it. I wonder what a debate in Congress would sound like today if we never built interstate highways back in the 50's and were considering building them now.
I also wonder what things would be like today if back when the price of oil shot up in the 70's we started investing in electric powered vehicles and wind and solar energy.
Jimmy Carter installed solar panels on the White House. Ronald Reagan tore them off. Thirty years later Barack Obama re-installed them. There's something to be said about the value of foresight, when those who have it use it.
Quote from: Jamie D on December 03, 2011, 01:15:07 AM
You could have stopped there.
America was the beacon for the demise of despotic monarchsm, fought a bloody civil war to eliminate slavery, defeated totalitarian fascism, Asian militarism, and the Soviet hegemony. America is holding the line against Maoist communism and Islamofascism.
American is not perfect, but it had played the central role is freeing more people than any other society in history.
Bwahahahahaha, all on it's own too....
wait, you were serious? In that case I invite you to buy a history book, and along with it a clue.
Quote from: Julie Marie on December 03, 2011, 06:58:20 AM
A greener earth... priceless.
Today we always talk about the cost of making something better compared to the cost of doing nothing, at the moment. There was a time when we looked into the future and said, "We need to do this," and we did it. I wonder what a debate in Congress would sound like today if we never built interstate highways back in the 50's and were considering building them now.
I also wonder what things would be like today if back when the price of oil shot up in the 70's we started investing in electric powered vehicles and wind and solar energy.
Jimmy Carter installed solar panels on the White House. Ronald Reagan tore them off. Thirty years later Barack Obama re-installed them. There's something to be said about the value of foresight, when those who have it use it.
So then, in your quest for a "greener earth," you're willing to accept wind farms across the landscape, solar arrays covering the deserts of the southwest and every rooftop in the sun belt, and tidal cofferdams across every narrow bay and inlet??? Not to mention hydro electric plants on every major river.
A few years ago I consulted on wind energy proposal to be sited on the coast of California, near Point Arguello. It was a near-perfect location - out of sight, consistent coastal winds, little public access (due to a nearby air force base) - and the environmentalists had a meltdown. The greenies talk good game about non-fossil fuel alternatives, but fight any reasonable proposal.
Alternative energy has been subsidized for some time, and yet it remains unpopular ("Not in my backyard!" - see Ted Kennedy) and cost ineffective. I prefer to let the free market settle the issue. And eventually fossil fuels will become so expensive, the alternatives will be welcomed.
Quote from: pixiegirl on December 03, 2011, 12:34:28 PM
Bwahahahahaha, all on it's own too....
wait, you were serious? In that case I invite you to buy a history book, and along with it a clue.
The American anti-monarchist sentiment may have, perhaps, had it antecedent in the Glorious Revolution in England is the 1680s, but compare if you will, the percentage of the world's population that lived under an absolute monarch in 1776, versus the percentage today. Even in those remaining monarchies, many are some sort of constitutional form.
With respect to the rise of fascism in the first half of the 1900s, Great Britain was barely able to hold its own against the forces of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. Were it not for, first, the American supply train to Britain, and second, direct American military involvement, fascism would have controlled almost all of Europe and, by extension, almost all of the European colonies in Africa and Asia.
Much the same can be said about Japanese militarism of the same period. The European world powers (particularly Britain, France, and the Dutch) were entirely unable to contain the Japanese expansion. It took American intervention and industrial might to turn the tide against that form of despotism.
And you can thank the Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist-Maoists for the deaths of more innocent people than any other evil force in history. We are talking tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of lives. They put Hitler to shame. Who would have kept them in check, if not America?
So any person that suggests that America is an evil empire simply does not understand evil.
Quote from: Jamie D on December 03, 2011, 02:40:51 PM
So then, in your quest for a "greener earth," you're willing to accept wind farms across the landscape, solar arrays covering the deserts of the southwest and every rooftop in the sun belt, and tidal cofferdams across every narrow bay and inlet??? Not to mention hydro electric plants on every major river.
I doubt it would be THAT bad, but sure, why not? Wind, solar and hydro to replace coal, uranium and oil? Not to mention releasing ourselves from the stranglehold the oil producing nations have on us? In a heartbeat!
The visual impact doesn't have to be offensive. Back when the cell phone carriers came into town to build their systems, I was cell site senior project manager for the electrical contractor that did about 50% of their work. I sat in on plenty of meetings where we discussed making those ugly cell towers less visually offensive. We came up with all kinds of ideas, including making them look like fir trees. (We did install a few of those.) While there was some complaints about the generic cell towers, the demand for cell phones that worked seemed more important to the public in general.
Once the general public begins to realize the benefits of alternative power, they will override those who oppose it.
Quote from: Julie Marie on December 03, 2011, 06:50:21 PM
I doubt it would be THAT bad, but sure, why not? Wind, solar and hydro to replace coal, uranium and oil? Not to mention releasing ourselves from the stranglehold the oil producing nations have on us? In a heartbeat!
Oh my! What would
Earth First! have to say about that?
We can make strides at eliminating that stranglehold by stopping the use of fuel oil and natural gas for electrical generation.
Quote from: tekla on December 02, 2011, 05:14:08 AM
and words are just as damaging as the strongest sword.
Bull->-bleeped-<-. Let me hit you with a sword and see if that kind of vapid crap holds up in reality. You'd be screaming to Jesus at the Bar to give me some words and take that sword the hell out of my hand.
Why is Jesus at a bar? Why is bar capitalized? I'm just picturing jesus as a lawyer now. :laugh:
Quote from: Felix on December 04, 2011, 01:48:53 AM
Why is Jesus at a bar? Why is bar capitalized? I'm just picturing jesus as a lawyer now. :laugh:
Jesus likes to socialize, so he goes out to the local dive. His skills had been alienated by an increase use of "social" networking. LOL
Where else you think you're going to find him? He sure ain't hangin' out at some Wicca Alter living room.
Are you drinkin' with me jesus
I can't see you very clear
Are you drinkin' with me jesus
Would you buy a friend a beer
...
Should we take a cab home jesus
Man, we can hoof it from here
I know you can walk on the water
But can you walk on this much beer
Quote from: Jamie D on December 03, 2011, 11:41:45 PM
Oh my! What would Earth First! have to say about that?
If I cared, I'd probably have an answer for you. From your comment, I'm guessing you already know.
Maybe the whole America as an evil empire thing is due to the fact we don't have another demon super power like we did when the USSR was so feared. Just the image of the hammer and sickle instilled fear in millions. Once they toppled, we started looking for another bad guy until we found out our very own politicians fit the bill.
Two devils standing in hell. One says proudly, "I just got another soul. Only $100!"
"Really, who?" says the other devil.
"I can't give his name right now but he's a big time politician!"
The other laughingly says, "You just bought a politician's soul for $100? You got taken pal!"