I was finally able to locate a Endo in southern indiana that i could get an Appointment with, Hisham Allababidi, MD of Deaconess Clinic in Evansville, IN.
http://www.deaconess.com/bodydc.cfm?id=2484 (http://www.deaconess.com/bodydc.cfm?id=2484) for more info. I was excited as you can imagine no longer would i have to drive 4 hours to meet with
my dr. Well afer check in his nurse took me heigth,weigth ect.. and asked me what drugs or medications i was currently using. She raised her eye when
i said E,spiro,propecia but was still very professional. I showed her my "walking papers" and "HRT Letter" and she asked me "So do you plan on getting
surgery?" to which i replied already booked for July. By this point i was happy as can be, all was going well and she was very accepting so far so good.
The nurse left with my letters and informed me the dr would be in soon to see me. After about 15minutes he came in and looked very angry.
his exact words "What made you assusme we saw people like you". I was too shocked to be pissed (i am really now) and just replied "I have tried
to see every endocronologist in the evansville area and you were the first to give me an appointment." to which he replied "My staff did not ask the
approiate questions i see as i have no training in your area. And as my religious beliefs will not allow me to help you do this. So i cannot have you as
a patient on moral objections." ---now i was starting to cry and asked "I need help dont you an oath to do NO harm. I am worried about DVT and
am self medicating(im really not but said that) and came here for help" to which he replied "I can give you the name of a person who might see you."
I just yelled and said "I HAVE CALLED THEM ALL" and stormed out.
This has been the month from hell........I really hope the whole world isnt aainst me cause it sure feels like it is!
:(
Always something so painful happens to us, I try to think it has nothing to do with us, but with the ignorance of people. I think there are a lot of ignorant people (not only doctors). Probably this doctor didn´t mean to hurt you, but he didn´t know how to behave in a situation new for him.
Perhaps, you have done something good for him, by showing him you are a normal girl asking for medical treatment; probably, after you left, he would had been thinking about the situation and next time he will try to behave better with another patient.
I hope you find a good doctor as soon as possible.
Oh wow. I'm sorry this happened to you. What an ->-bleeped-<-.
Hi is an ->-bleeped-<-, but you really should take him up on his offer to referr you to someone else. He will have checked first.
May I suggest you write to him explaining you were very tired and tense. That there is a lot of pressure but that you understand and appreciate his position.
Then say you would really like to take up his offer to follow up on the Dr he referred to. Can he send you the details now?
Quote from: mandyh92 on November 10, 2011, 04:43:35 PM
I was finally able to locate a Endo in southern indiana that i could get an Appointment with, Hisham Allababidi, MD of Deaconess Clinic in Evansville, IN.
The nurse left with my letters and informed me the dr would be in soon to see me. After about 15minutes he came in and looked very angry.
his exact words "What made you assusme we saw people like you". I was too shocked to be pissed (i am really now) and just replied "I have tried
to see every endocronologist in the evansville area and you were the first to give me an appointment." to which he replied "My staff did not ask the
approiate questions i see as i have no training in your area. And as my religious beliefs will not allow me to help you do this. So i cannot have you as
a patient on moral objections." ---now i was starting to cry and asked "I need help dont you an oath to do NO harm. I am worried about DVT and
am self medicating(im really not but said that) and came here for help" to which he replied "I can give you the name of a person who might see you."
Keep trying Hon, may have to go to the big city or a University Medical Center. Have you contacted any LGBT centers in Indiana? Sorry if this sounds second guessing if you already have.
More disturbing...is this a common attitude amongst Healthcare Providers in Indiana? Are you familiar with the publicized incident at Ball Memorial Hospital? No excuse!
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,82941.msg584129.html#msg584129 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,82941.msg584129.html#msg584129)
I know it can seem that way, its changing but not fast enough!
Hugz,
SJ
That is so sad what happened to you!
Perhaps you could try to disclose the reason for visit while trying to see another doctor with something like cross gender HRT, so you avoid another situation like this where they figure out why you are there and who you are only after you are already in the exam room?
best of luck!
Oh my god I'm so sorry. That isn't right. You deserve so much better. That guy has no right to treat you that way.
I lost a college scholarship once when the agency found out I was a single parent. Everything they said was so mean, I cried for days.
I don't know why people act like this, especially educated professionals. They shouldn't be wearing ignorance like a badge of honor. Society is backwards right now.
That is disgusting and must be against the medical profession oath in the USA, surely? Medics cannot refuse to treat people based on their religious beliefs. Surely that is the moral foulness of refusing medical help based on colour or ethnic background. I would report that person to the State board, I would then see a lawyer and sue the living **** out of them.
I may have used the incorrect terms for boards etc as I'm in Australia. But I can assure a person treating a patient like that here would be barred from practising, and be paying for my SRS from the law suit.
You are a very brave woman to have survived that ordeal.
Hugs and more Hugs
Cindy
sadly Cindy, US doc's may refuse to treat you for any reason. That includes their religious views.
Yeah. Cindy, I've seen doctors refuse to do abortions, refuse to give birth control, even refuse to give basic medical care to people they've decided must be sexually promiscuous (me when I got PID after sleeping with some dude in a monogamous relationship). U.S. Doctors are indeed allowed to refuse care for religious and ethical reasons, and they exercise that right all the time.
I'm still hurt from being ejected from a gynecology office recently. People can be pretty unkind.
Oh wow,
The USA is really that primitive?
Sorry I do not mean that as an insult but Geez can a Dr can refuse medical treatment because they don't like the patient? What happens in ER? Don't like you; die bitch?
I have to apologise, I'm totally stunned.
So if you run an STD clinic and a person comes in and says I had anal sex last night with another guy, can you test me for AIDS, and your medic can refuse because of self belief??
Sorry, totally stunned, and I thought I knew the market.
Cindy
Cindy, here's an admittedly pretty broad comment on the issue (I don't feel up to doing a lot of research or getting technical): http://www.physiciansnews.com/law/202.html (http://www.physiciansnews.com/law/202.html). Notice how vague the language is.
I took several medical ethics classes in college, and in my country, you can apparently refuse care pretty much any time you feel uncomfortable, so long as no one's life is in danger. Even then, you sometimes have protections, depending on the state.
If it's really true the doctor has no training for TS patients, that isn't something to ignore. Doctors do have to guess sometimes, but you want someone who can at least make a good guess if not already know what to do.
Alicia, that maybe true but the doctors statement to the patient "what makes you think I wanna see people like you" is out of place to say at least!!!
While a doctor can refuse to treat a patient for various reasons his way of conduct was absolutely unacceptable. I think if she had time, energy and resources she could take him to the court for the way she had been treated and not for the reason of his refusal of treatment.
time for some regieme change in the US, a country so backward that Iran surpasses it in terms of tolerance towards the trans community
I have no problem with the doctor not being inclined to treat someone with gender issues. It may be difficult but you can find someone else even if you it means driving 4 hours away to see a doc. I know most of you will not agree with me but I want people to have their beliefs even if they are contrary to my own. I sorta feel like if I can't respect them having their "ridiculous" opinions and beliefs; how can I expect anyone to respect mine. .
The issue I have is the doctor throwing out his morals. If he has such morals shouldn't he be a little nicer. I mean he was a jerk. He didn't have to be angry or condescending.
He could have said. "I'm sorry miss, but my religious beliefs/morals (or whatever) make me unable to help you. I do apologize and I may be able to recommend you to another physician that may be able to help you."
I hope you find another doctor near by that will treat you. I am so sorry that guy was such a jerk to you.
I did my research before going to a doctor in my area. I got on the gay lesbian medical association website and you can look up doctors that are lgbt friendly in all areas. I got lucky to find one that was only a few miles away from me but you might find a doctor that will be more friendly closer to you on that website. www.glma.org (http://www.glma.org)
Good Luck
Nowadays I call around and discuss things pretty bluntly with the receptionists. It's not always pleasant, but much better than the possibility of finding out there's a problem once I'm face to face with the doctor.
Quote from: Cindy James on November 11, 2011, 03:45:38 AM
Oh wow,
The USA is really that primitive?
Sorry I do not mean that as an insult but Geez can a Dr can refuse medical treatment because they don't like the patient? What happens in ER? Don't like you; die bitch?
I have to apologise, I'm totally stunned.
So if you run an STD clinic and a person comes in and says I had anal sex last night with another guy, can you test me for AIDS, and your medic can refuse because of self belief??
Sorry, totally stunned, and I thought I knew the market.
Cindy
Sure they can, unfortunate enough.
Just take the case of the Transman Robert Eads, that after having recieved a diagnosis of Ovarian Cancer, was being refused treatment by two dozen(Yes, the number is right) Doctors, with the explanation that "Taking him as a patient might harm their practice".
Another Transman, Buck Angel, have also experienced this type of herassment before he found a stable Gynechologist.
Earlier, he once had to sit in the patients waiting room for two hours, until finally a nurse notified him that "She was sorry but there were no-one on the practice that wanted to see him".
So yes, it do indeed happen.
Then, ofcourse, there is also the case of the T-girl Tyra Hunter, that after a car accident was refused treatment by the arriving Paramedics after they discovered that, as they worded it on the scene; "The bitch had a dick", and literally left her on the road dying, while they instead switched the emergency-care to the other victim.
However, the bittersweet victory in the case are, that the mother of Tyra recieved 4, or of it were 5, I do not recall properly, million Dollars as compensation in court for the outrageous "treatment" of her daughter, so in atleast that case, justice prevailed.
Also worth mentioning, is that her funeral was attended by 2000 people.
Seems like a proper ass.
Quote from: mandyh92 on November 10, 2011, 04:43:35 PM
his exact words "What made you assusme we saw people like you". . And as my religious beliefs will not allow me to help you do this. So i cannot have you as a patient on moral objections." ---now i was starting to cry and asked "I need help dont you an oath to do NO harm. I am worried about DVT and
Bet he is a tea partyer too. i'd rathar drive the 4 hours - sorry it happened to you. >:(
The US is less like one unified country, and more like a collection of 50 countries that happen to be loosely overseen by a single organization. States have different laws, and what's completely legal and accepted in one state, may be completely illegal and punishable by imprisonment in the next. In 30+ states, employers have the right to fire you for being transgender, for instance.
I'm not surprised this happened in Indiana. There's a reason a lot of us move to areas where we are more accepted.
I always call and ask if there's going to be an issue beforehand. In the Chicago area where I live, for the most part I've never had any problems.
Quote from: BillieTex on November 12, 2011, 01:05:21 PM
Bet he is a tea partyer too. i'd rathar drive the 4 hours - sorry it happened to you. >:(
I'm a tea partier. People's identity or sexual preferences don't effect my hatred of big government. I was a REPUBLICAN voting gay male since high school and like the gayest male of all.
Yeah I've dealt with indivduals like this before doctors like this too.
The contigious fact between all of them between Mandys story and my own experiences is that the pepole in them were all christian. With deeply held "religious convictions"
Some Christians are just scum.
And you will have a hard time convincing me otherwise.
Quote from: pebbles on November 12, 2011, 02:15:39 PM
Yeah I've dealt with indivduals like this before doctors like this too.
The contigious fact between all of them between Mandys story and my own experiences is that the pepole in them were all christian. With deeply held "religious convictions"
Christians are just scum.
And you will have a hard time convincing me otherwise.
Sorry they don't believe want you want to here. But honestly, we have Christians on this board. Please take that into consideration before you call them "scum", k? Good.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 12, 2011, 02:30:11 PM
Sorry they don't believe want you want to here. But honestly, we have Christians on this board. Please take that into consideration before you call them "scum", k? Good.
My prejudices and attitudes are formed from first hand experience and my desire to survive.
I can't and won't make any apology for them.
Quote from: pebbles on November 12, 2011, 04:42:08 PM
My prejudices and attitudes are formed from first hand experience and my desire to survive.
I can't and won't make any apology for them.
Yeah, well there are people here who are Christian and aren't scum. Ever think you might have offended them?
First of all, I'm a tea party-er too. Not all tea party-ers are racist redneck xenophobic blah blah blahs. Many just don't care for government sticking their noses in the publics business and telling us what to do. That means not telling churches they HAVE to marry gay couples, or telling endocrinologists they HAVE to treat TSuals. That's part of liberty, hon.. the door swings both ways.
This doesn't make this doctors actions justifyable to me. That was an unprofessional way to go about it.
Before I get flamed, I don't agree with the doctor whatsoever and think he's a crappy doctor for not wanting to learn all aspects of his JOB. In endocrinology, it is essential to learn hormonal effects on the body, and I'd think any endo would want to see the effects of cross sex hormones come into play and study them. Beyond that, he is a terrible human being for being so narrow minded and to let someone walk out the door, endangering themselves to self medication. Oh, and I'm for the state recognizing gay marriages too, just not for the state forcing private instutions to marry any couple that walks thru the door.
Furthermore, if ANYBODY is in immediate medical peril (such as trauma or heart failure), an ER attending is required to treat them no matter what. However, this is not a dire medical emergency, sorry!
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on November 12, 2011, 05:19:25 PM
First of all, I'm a tea party-er too. Not all tea party-ers are racist redneck xenophobic blah blah blahs. Many just don't care for government sticking their noses in the publics business and telling us what to do. That means not telling churches they HAVE to marry gay couples, or telling endocrinologists they HAVE to treat TSuals. That's part of liberty, hon.. the door swings both ways.
This doesn't make this doctors actions justifyable to me. That was an unprofessional way to go about it.
Furthermore, if ANYBODY is in immediate medical peril (such as trauma or heart failure), an ER attending is required to treat them no matter what. However, this is not a dire medical emergency, sorry!
+1
wow, this is shocking. I feel nothing but sympathy here. What I don't get is that how someone claiming to be Christian would refuse to help someone on 'moral' grounds. I am an Atheist but I respect the message of the figure of Christ (be it truth or fiction) as unlimited love, compassion and tolerance are beautiful things to aspire to. How can anyone that follows the teachings of this individual, and be so devoted to them, really miss the point in such a huge way?
Aren't these things supposed to be challenges to us? Obstacles to overcome in order to be true to ourselves? Shouldn't the followers of Christ aspire to be like him? At least here in the UK if a doctor refused to treat you on moral grounds the NHS would most likely have them struck off.
Love to Mandy, I hope you get things sorted sweetie
Tams
XXXX
I want to back away slowly from this discussion, but before I go I want to say very emphatically that no matter what our feelings, we can't be calling each other scum. There are folks who call all of us that, and that hurts enough.
Did somebody say tea party!?! :o :D
Doctors need to be properly educated on transsexual's. Most don't even take us seriously. ::)
Quote from: Rukia87xo on November 12, 2011, 08:55:44 PM
Did somebody say tea party!?! :o :D
Doctors need to be properly educated on transsexual's. Most don't even take us seriously. ::)
They took me seriously when I had my butt cheeks on the exam table. Actually the doctor was a hot azn guy and I didn't want him touching me...cuz I would have gotten turned on.
That being said, it doesn't matter someones gender...someone shouldn't be denied care.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 12, 2011, 08:58:33 PM
That being said, it doesn't matter someones gender...someone shouldn't be denied care.
Unfortunately that's the world we live in. Being disrespected by someone that is supposed to be a medical professional is sad.
Quote from: Cindy James on November 11, 2011, 03:45:38 AM
Oh wow,
The USA is really that primitive?
The only thing that separates us from 3rd world countries are parachute food drops and the inordinate amount of plastic crap we have from China.
Quote from: Guantanamera on November 12, 2011, 11:45:06 PM
The only thing that separates us from 3rd world countries are parachute food drops and the inordinate amount of plastic crap we have from China.
I own too much plastic crap.
Ever go on any collector board? These men have entire houses filled with that stuff. No wonder they are pathetic.
:police:
Remember that bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behaviour on this web site and will not be tolerated.
Cindy James
Quote from: Felix on November 12, 2011, 08:49:13 PM
I want to back away slowly from this discussion, but before I go I want to say very emphatically that no matter what our feelings, we can't be calling each other scum. There are folks who call all of us that, and that hurts enough.
+1
The voice of reason penetrating the deepest of psyches.
In all seriousness, all civilized nations regards rights in a positive rather than a negative sense.
In Europe for example, people have the right to access to healthcare that is effective and meaningful to them. Thus, depriving people of their access due to 'moral convictions' is a crime in and of itself. Namely, just because you have deeply help convictions or whatever else doesn't give you the right to adjudicate your duty and in so doing directly deprive the rights of an individual.
For those conservatives on the board, I'd just like to repeat what Dan Savage has to say about the GOP:
"They just want to shrink the size the of government so that they can cram it in up your twat!"
Be careful voting for people who show an obvious disdain for civil rights, especially when you're in their crosshairs.
Quote from: Guantanamera on November 13, 2011, 12:25:12 AM
For those conservatives on the board, I'd just like to repeat what Dan Savage has to say about the GOP:
"They just want to shrink the size the of government so that they can cram it in up your twat!"
Be careful voting for people who show an obvious disdain for civil rights, especially when you're in their crosshairs.
I'm libertarian, but I'd like to say I would hate to be the doctor being told by government how to treat or run my business. It sucks that we have jerks like that out there, but at the same time I'm happy I live in a free country.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on November 13, 2011, 01:41:51 AM
I'm libertarian, but I'd like to say I would hate to be the doctor being told by government how to treat or run my business. It sucks that we have jerks like that out there, but at the same time I'm happy I live in a free country.
As a consumer I find it horrifying that the government wouldn't set standards of care and health outcomes. There are no do-overs in a lot of medicine. What would your response to doctors performing experimental procedures or less effective procedures for the their own financial benefit? (aka ties to pharmacuetical companies.) Further, what would happen if the government didn't provide a means for people to redress their grievances when these instances eventually occur?
What would you consider the government do, if anything, if you live a hillbilly city where all the doctors/stores/bankers won't give you access because of their 'moral convictions?' Would you allow that person to starve because of the ignorant actions of others?
The fact of the matter is that for health care to be effective, the government must intercede because consumers are not experts and can't decide for themselves what the best course of treatment is. And that because doctors enjoy a special relationship with their patients that other merchants don't- which in combination makes it very deadly for consumers. (If you don't believe me, check out the patent medicines from the early 20th century. Doctors were prescribing cocaine, herione and opium to young children.)
It might astonish you to know that European democracies are more 'free' by any measure of the word:
Those societies ensure the right the economic justice and oppurtunity- thus their society is much less class bound. Everyone has a shot at becoming wealthy.
They ensure the right to aforable healthcare- thus people in their society live longer.
They ensure the right to a clean enviroment and healthy food- thus people are are more happy and healthy.
They ensure the right to an education at whatever level you can achieve- thus people enjoy all the benefits associated with education while the society benefiets from more skilled workers and innovation.
In any way that you analyze the proposition, positive rights not only ensure that people are more free to pursue 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' but they create a much better society than the one we live in.
Quote from: Guantanamera on November 13, 2011, 05:38:09 AM
As a consumer I find it horrifying that the government wouldn't set standards of care and health outcomes. There are no do-overs in a lot of medicine. What would your response to doctors performing experimental procedures or less effective procedures for the their own financial benefit? (aka ties to pharmacuetical companies.) Further, what would happen if the government didn't provide a means for people to redress their grievances when these instances eventually occur?
What would you consider the government do, if anything, if you live a hillbilly city where all the doctors/stores/bankers won't give you access because of their 'moral convictions?' Would you allow that person to starve because of the ignorant actions of others?
The fact of the matter is that for health care to be effective, the government must intercede because consumers are not experts and can't decide for themselves what the best course of treatment is. And that because doctors enjoy a special relationship with their patients that other merchants don't- which in combination makes it very deadly for consumers. (If you don't believe me, check out the patent medicines from the early 20th century. Doctors were prescribing cocaine, herione and opium to young children.)
It might astonish you to know that European democracies are more 'free' by any measure of the word:
Those societies ensure the right the economic justice and oppurtunity- thus their society is much less class bound. Everyone has a shot at becoming wealthy.
They ensure the right to aforable healthcare- thus people in their society live longer.
They ensure the right to a clean enviroment and healthy food- thus people are are more happy and healthy.
They ensure the right to an education at whatever level you can achieve- thus people enjoy all the benefits associated with education while the society benefiets from more skilled workers and innovation.
In any way that you analyze the proposition, positive rights not only ensure that people are more free to pursue 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' but they create a much better society than the one we live in.
I disagree with all of this. But I can sum up my opinions on it by saying what you call "rights" is nothing more than government taking away rights from 1 group of people and "giving" them to another. These are not rights at all, they are mandates.
Mandates are laws. The word "law" is just a nice word for "limitation", because in all of your examples, somebody had to be limited somehow in order to give others what you call "rights".
The way I see it: the only "rights" are derived from a government being limited from taking action against the public. This includes private corporations, small business practice, and consumers all alike.
Okay. I too live in southern Indiana. My Endo is Dr. Sheperd and she practices at the I.U. Womens health Center in Indianapolis. She's a wonderful lady who has also treated one of my Sisters when she started transitioning. PM me if you want contact details if you can't find her.
I've had a doctor like that before. Sadly, there is a lot of people like that in Indiana. But I hope Dr. Sheperd can help you. *hugs*
If you're still interested in trying someone in Evansville, IN, you should try Anne Busch, M.D. She is both my general practitioner and handles my hormones/blood work. She also already has a few trans patients that she sees in the area. Her website is http://www.evvmed.com/anne.html (http://www.evvmed.com/anne.html)
Quote from: zancii on November 13, 2011, 08:46:52 PM
If you're still interested in trying someone in Evansville, IN, you should try Anne Busch, M.D. She is both my general practitioner and handles my hormones/blood work. She also already has a few trans patients that she sees in the area. Her website is http://www.evvmed.com/anne.html (http://www.evvmed.com/anne.html)
Thank you so much! i will contact her in the morning first thing
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 12, 2011, 01:39:33 PM
I'm a tea partier. People's identity or sexual preferences don't effect my hatred of big government. I was a REPUBLICAN voting gay male since high school and like the gayest male of all.
:( from what ive heard of the teaparty there is a lack of consensus on most politcal issues including racism, sexual diversity, tolerance etc. If you belong to a political group that has no clear manifesto and a history of having high profile members (For example Dale Robertson, Sonny Thomas, Mark Williams) who are willing to be publicly racist, islamiphobic and intolerant then you are always going to run the risk of being criticised. I dont think my own views neccisarily go against the view that "big government" is too controlling and i like the fact that the majority of tea party members are republicans who are dissatisfied with the republican party leadership (and there is nothing more patriotic than dissent). However the actions of many Tea Party members do worry me. Im not trying to tar you all with the same brush of course, i consider myself a Libertarian and a Socialist (but not a libertarian socialist if you take that to mean the political movement itself) which may seem like a conflict of interests but i dont believe it has to be.
Anyway no more politics, especially trans atlantic politics XD
As an independant observer on the US political system (yes I do feel it is important to pay attention even though I am British) it seems to me that the goal of the 'Tea Party' leadership is to rally the more conservative elements of the US to attack and discredit the current administration with as many outlandish accusations as possible. There is no way the Republican party would be foolish enough to put up a Tea Party Candidate for the Election next year, because they would alienate the moderates and swing voters that they need to win over for a victory...but to quote a certain American satirist and comedian 'That's just my opinion, I could be wrong'.
Speaking as someone raised in a country where you have a choice between state funded healthcare and private healthcare, I cannot imagine living under a system where the law does not hold a doctor to their duty of care. Where a private doctor in this country can refuse patients due to their own beliefs, an NHS Doctor cannot, meaning there is care for everyone who needs it... provided our Conservatives don't sell the NHS off like they seem intent on doing. I think there'd be more than rioting if that happened. The NHS in it's 60 year existance has embedded itself as the cornerstone of our society and I for one am grateful to have it, and feel safe going to any doctor with any problem to recieve impartial and professional treatment.
Tams xxxx
By the same standard no-one who objected to what Marci Bowers was doing could stop her either. It works both ways.
Actually there are vocal opponents who believe that SRS and other transgender related treatments should not be availible on the NHS like it is now... they tend to get ignored though. When you can keep religion and government seperate, then you don't get the 'morality' of one group having legal jurisdiction over others.
It makes me laugh that churches and other religious groups are so opposed to certain things being legal... they seem to think the words 'legal' and 'compulsory' mean the same thing. It's not like there's a Gay or Transgender Draft where heterosexual, god-fearing types can get chosen at random for sodomy and sex changes. We're not short of fundamentalist religious types in the UK but at least they came from a wider variety of faiths and therefore cannot create a cohesive movement.
Tams x