Kia Ora,
::) I'm a strong believer [ no matter at what end of the androgynous scale one sits prior to HRT] in that it's important to let HRT work it's wonder before deciding on facial surgery, [well apart from a nose job-which seems to be a more common thing with Caucasians ...A few years back I read some research from the UK which stated a simple nose job on many M2Fs greatly increased their chances of blending in/passing]...
::) I should also point out there's nothing wrong with wanting facial surgery, no doubt for some it was[will be] the passing factor in their transition...
At the beginning of my transition I wanted the whole works[well apart from genital surgery-this need was not urgent/strong] I wanted a boob job and some facial surgery I wasn't sure what I wanted done face-wise but I had read that lots of M2Fs have facial surgery...The more I interacted with society[on HRT] and the more I was 'correctly' address[with female pronouns-even dressed in male attire] the less I felt the need for facial surgery or a boob job...
::) However even to this day and even though I'm comfortable with my looks, when I look into a mirror I still see the same me that I saw before HRT, but society sees a female so I'm not complaining I'm happy with the recognition on their part[Since going 24/7/365 10 years ago I've never been misgendered]...
::) So the question is, where you are at, at present [be it with or without HRT] when you look into the mirror do you still feel the need to have some kind of facial surgery to make you feel good about yourself ?
Metta Zenda :)
Lol, I used to imagine myself looking exactly like Harisu. I was fantasizing about getting this like celebrity plastic surgery to become a spitting image. That was very unrealistic of course. I learned not to mind my face, it's not perfect but it's not terribly masculine and I think it's pretty. FFS is as much as SRS >.> which I want. I'm more worried about money than most because so many tgirls can't afford SRS and I want something else important to me which is like, 80,000$.
If I looked really masculine I would probably choose FFS over SRS.
I think most MTF's need some type of facial work in order to pass, especially if they start transition post puberty. Some are lucky, of course, and don't need it but most I've seen do. HRT alone does not change the bone structure unfortunately.
My position is such that I am full-time, and have been on hormones for a lil over 11 months so far. I pass fairly well, though I tend to attribute this more to my frame, height, and voice rather than my face. Apparently, my face is cute, though - it's just a matter of not seeing it.
So, I had been getting more comfortable with myself as time moved forward... until recently, where I feel like my feelings have plateaued. I can accept that I'm passable and even cute or pretty, now, which is a much better spot than before... but my feelings about facial surgery haven't changed much. The urgency is lower, because it seems it's not a matter of passing, so I'd be getting the surgery out of vanity, for one, but also for my peace of mind.
Same goes for the boob job, although breasts seem to be more urgent. By development has been very sub-par, practically nonexistant. The upside is I'll probably be covered for a BA by medical... it'd be nice if the wait list weren't so long, however. This again would be to ease dysphoric feelings, but in certain situations, it would definitely boost my passability by a factor of > 9000. The rest of the situations would feel only a moderate help.
In the end, though, the bottom line is that I want surgery so I can ease my dysphoria. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who thinks I look bad.
Quote from: Kelly J. P. on November 14, 2011, 03:25:52 PM
In the end, though, the bottom line is that I want surgery so I can ease my dysphoria. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who thinks I look bad.
This was me basically. I was lucky enough that I passed before facial surgery. But I still went and had the masculine features surgically removed from my face so that I no longer feel ill looking in a mirror.
Now, no I don't feel a need for further surgery, but I'm still not entirely happy with my face. I tend to see my face as androgynous (though I'm aware that isn't the reality), but I no longer feel like I'm staring at a different person who is not me. So that's good enough. I'm not sure I'll ever be entirely comfortable with myself - going through puberty was a really bad experience.
Conversely, I'm only an A-cup, but I have no interest in a boob job. We are all different you know?
Quote from: JenJen2011 on November 14, 2011, 03:22:07 PM
I think most MTF's need some type of facial work in order to pass, especially if they start transition post puberty. Some are lucky, of course, and don't need it but most I've seen do. HRT alone does not change the bone structure unfortunately.
Kia Ora Jen,
::) Thanks for your input, it's an interesting observation on your part, however, I don't personally think the vast majority[most] M2Fs need facial surgery-a fair few maybe but not most...But I can understand where you're coming from, because of who we are we tend to have a built in gen-dar that's on 24/7/365, subconsciously and consciously we are on the look out for the tale, tale signs of which if one looks close enough one will find plenty ...
::) One as only got to go to the mall and observe the cis-females whose facial structures comes in all shapes and sizes, especially when it comes to one's ethnic background and all of which [I might add] exhibit their individual beautiful qualities-some ethnicities so it would seem are more androgynous than others...
::) However the actual question was "Do '
you' feel the need for facial surgery ? " [Or did
you feel the need for facial surgery to make you feel good about yourself ?]
Remember facial surgery does not necessarily make a person more beautiful[even though in some cases it might do] in many cases it just makes them more 'passable'...
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on November 14, 2011, 03:16:41 PM
Lol, I used to imagine myself looking exactly like Harisu. I was fantasizing about getting this like celebrity plastic surgery to become a spitting image. That was very unrealistic of course. I learned not to mind my face, it's not perfect but it's not terribly masculine and I think it's pretty. FFS is as much as SRS >.> which I want. I'm more worried about money than most because so many tgirls can't afford SRS and I want something else important to me which is like, 80,000$.
If I looked really masculine I would probably choose FFS over SRS.
Kia Ora Road,
::) Many moons ago in another life I wanted to look like Tyra Banks[be it an older version of her] anyhow I ended up looking like me, and society didn't complain about my looks-so I'm happy looking like me, warts and all [well I don't actually have any warts] ;) ;D.... I'm now the 'female' version of the old 'male' me !
::) If one is lucky-that is having an androgynous frame work [bone structure] for the HRT to work with, they should end up becoming the female version of their male self and if not they could end up becoming a slightly more [HRT induced] androgynous version of their male self..
Well that's what I've observed in real life when meeting other trans-people...
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: JenJen2011 on November 14, 2011, 03:22:07 PM
I think most MTF's need some type of facial work in order to pass, especially if they start transition post puberty. Some are lucky, of course, and don't need it but most I've seen do. HRT alone does not change the bone structure unfortunately.
+1
I plan on getting minor stuff done. But as my heterosexual DQ friend says, "Definitely do the lips, the nose could be done...But not really". I attract men now, but I wanted ffs from the beginning...to perfect an already good thing.
I just would rather people not question what I am in public. Now they don't, but I also can't read their minds...But seeing as I am not getting srs.. I want ffs.... But it's so out of my reach that I don't even know.
FFS would also work when I age, as my face would still retain it's quality....versus 30 years from now looking a mini Dame Edna or Mrs. Doubtfire.
Kia Ora Folks,
::) With or without facial surgery as far as the general public are concerned, I believe for the most part we can 'only' achieve 'the benefit of the doubt' female status...There will 'always' be someone who mentally questions our gender identity's authenticity...Be it by questioning ones hands, arm length, feet size, height, facial characteristic, mannerism, body language, etc or a combination of these...If we don't greatly challenge their concept of gender then they are likely to give us a 'pass'...
Metta Zenda :)
i plan on hitting up FFS like a big rig with no breaks
I considering to nose job (in front look it is ok, but prom profile it is strange, but sister have it also so it is a question)
And I strongly want to do something with ears
Quote from: Zenda on November 14, 2011, 05:04:13 PM
Kia Ora Folks,
::) With or without facial surgery as far as the general public are concerned, I believe for the most part we can 'only' achieve 'the benefit of the doubt' female status...There will 'always' be someone who mentally questions our gender identity's authenticity...Be it by questioning ones hands, arm length, feet size, height, facial characteristic, mannerism, body language, etc or a combination of these...If we don't greatly challenge their concept of gender then they are likely to give us a 'pass'...
Metta Zenda :)
My voice is the issue at times. I sound like a gay guy trying to be a valley girl. My point is that self acceptance is the most important thing. Some people are always gonna look for those things that make us "trans". We should accept ourselves and move on.
FFS is either for passing or vanity... Either way, I think it rocks.
FFS for vanity reasons.
I want it by 21/22.
Quote from: Elle Hollywood 90210 on November 14, 2011, 04:43:41 PMFFS would also work when I age, as my face would still retain it's quality....versus 30 years from now looking a mini Dame Edna or Mrs. Doubtfire.
I don't think your face will masculinize as you age as long as you're on hormones. HRT, especially anti-androgens, should stop the process.
Do I *need* FFS? I don't believe so. I get misgendered sometimes but then so does a GG friend of mine.
Quote from: Dàwkbua on November 15, 2011, 08:05:30 AM
I don't think your face will masculinize as you age as long as you're on hormones. HRT, especially anti-androgens, should stop the process.
Well it's more to control the skin shrinkage, since hormones will lose their effects the older you get.
Friends and family will often say things like you still look the same even in a dress. Can we expect ourselves to be much different. I know I have often said that to myself! We are our own worse critics.
If you have older head shots and a recent one, do a side my side comparison. I was shocked a year ago when I did. You see that same ole face every day, just like friends and family, and you don't notice the change. Just like the proverbial frog in a pot. Try to imagine you are evaluating someone else's photos, a favor for a friend. Be as fair as you can. That is, if you aren't just taken aback like I was do that.
Forget my other answer.
Yes, I need it.
and someone just doesn't understand that.
Quote from: Zenda on November 14, 2011, 02:53:34 PM
So the question is, where you are at, at present [be it with or without HRT] when you look into the mirror do you still feel the need to have some kind of facial surgery to make you feel good about yourself ?
Absolutely. Nose, jaw line, adam's apple - all need a surgical makeover.
Quote from: stldrmgrl on November 26, 2011, 06:11:22 PM
Absolutely. Nose, jaw line, adam's apple - all need a surgical makeover.
Of course you could learn to contour/highlight your face until the time comes to actually get ffs to get the intended effects. Oh but wait, to preaching makeup is fail here...LOL
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 26, 2011, 06:25:24 PM
Oh but wait, to preaching makeup is fail here...LOL
Cute, but untrue. I'm not arguing with you. ::)
A little wouldn't hurt, but its not absolutely necessary I guess. A brow shave and a little nose tweak would be nice.
I support ffs!!!
And even science fiction body morphing if they will be avaiable when i will be ready.
For me, I'd like a lower hairline. that's all! I actually like my nose, it's pretty straight from the side. Like some anime characters are drawn. But I think my face overall is just fine. ^_^