Have you guys heard of bears? No, not the animals. I mean, like in gay porn? Of course you have.
I don't know why but it just crossed my mind and it got me thinking. I'm one of the lucky ones because before hormones, I didn't grow much body hair. For the most part, I grew hair in places where most women grow hair. You know like legs, arms, head, lol. I grew no chest hair or back hair. I did have a happy trail though that I got rid of with electrolysis.
How do really hairy transsexuals get rid of all the hair on their back, chest, arms, fingers, toes, etc. Does HRT stop it completely? Or do you have to continue shaving, waxing, etc? I can't imagine how long it would take with electrolysis.
Fill me in.
I've always assumed that, given the female testosterone/estrogen levels, all body hair would reduce to nothing after a certain amount of time. Well except maybe arm/armpit/leg/pubic hair.
All my extra money is going to electrolysis on my face so there's no money for laser on my body.
While waiting for hormones to work their magic (it's already been a year) my routine is something like this;
Arms, hands, fingers - epilate once or twice a week
Legs, feet - shave once or twice a week depending on if my legs are visible
Chest - shave every other day or more depending on how often my chest is visible
Arm pits - every couple of weeks or as needed
Back - no one sees it, not much there anyway, don't care
I also play the lottery occasional in the hopes of affording whole body laser treatment.
It totally sucks trying to stay on top of the body hair but a lot of transwomen I've talked to say after a year on hormones the body hair starts to reduce so I'm hoping it will.
I'm not very hairy to start with but HRT has thinned everything and think spearmint tea has also helped
Body hair loss seems to be one of the slow ones. Most people start noticing differences at 6 months to a year, with maximum effects at over 3 years. Also, post orchie/SRS people seem to lose a whole bunch more body hair.
I don't have any chest/back hair, but I would seriously like my leg hair to reduce to something manageable. Shaving my hyper-sensitive skin every 2-3 days is SO not fun. I'm at 10 months HRT and I'm just starting to notice a difference as some of the dark stuff is turning into vellus hairs.
One year hormones... no apparent reduction in the coarseness, density, or pigment of any torso hair. That is, back, chest, and abdominal hair. Leg hair has been reduced, however, as has facial hair.
... to screw with me.
:p
Hormones are weird.
I barely have any body hair.
I knew a girl who had to get her hair chest done...
I shave my chest every other day. I shave my arms and legs every 6 days. I shave my back once a month (the hair there seems to grow more slowly).
I've been getting laser on my face and neck for a little over a year now; I've got about 10 months to go. I still shave my neck and face every other day, but much less effort is needed these days.
I've been on HRT for about 5 months.
I'm not exactly a bear but i definitely have hair where some girls don't and definitely alot more on my thighs than most women. I deal with it by being persistent and on-top of things by getting my legs regularly waxed, shaved, etc.
I've also fallen in love with veet depilatory cream. Some people have had little to no results with it or suffered allergic reactions. I'm one of the fortunate ones and it has made my life a helluva lot easier.
I was a middle-aged gorilla. Fine, light colored body hair after 1 year HRT.
Joelene
I shave my lower legs and armpits onece a month. No facial, chest, or back hair at all ! I would trade all the hair for a female voice though
Well........ I guess I would have been a bear if I were interested in guys. I still have problems with my arms and legs and chest and must shave every 2-3 days [not because it looks too bad, but because stubble is too scratchy in bed to snuggle]. However my biological father looked like an ape and even my sister has very, very hairy arms and legs.
I've tried a rotary epilator, but being overweight it pinches badly on my upper legs up to my chest. It also caused a huge ingrown hair problem for me. I also tried both the Tria and the Silken home lasers and neither is effective at all.
HRT has worked to reduce some of my hair growth though. I used to have what my wife and I called admiral patches on my shoulders. It was like a shoulder pad made of thick coarse curly hair. It is totally gone now. I no longer shave my back either. I still hope that my upper legs and chest/tummy area slow their growth. I'm going to give it another 6 months or so and then I may start laser on my chest.
I was no bear but I am naturaly hairier than the standard issue female.
I have had my breasts and abdomen lasered.
Also I atribute much of my hair loss to spearmint tea.
Quote from: cynthialee on December 01, 2011, 09:14:37 PM
I was no bear but I am naturaly hairier than the standard issue female.
I have had my breasts and abdomen lasered.
Also I atribute much of my hair loss to spearmint tea.
Is spearmint tea something that can be had in a supermarket? Or is it a specialty shop type of thing?
you can find spearmint in the tea section of the super market in most places
however it would be better to get it bulk at an herbal supply store
It would be under some other brand name other than Celestial Seasonings or Twinings. Both sell teas with both spearmint and peppermint with some other stuff that might render the spearmint ineffective. I would go with the pure stuff though. Something I might try, despite the problems I had with the herbals last year.
Joelene
Quote from: Joelene9 on December 04, 2011, 11:33:56 PM
It would be under some other brand name other than Celestial Seasonings or Twinings. Both sell teas with both spearmint and peppermint with some other stuff that might render the spearmint ineffective. I would go with the pure stuff though. Something I might try, despite the problems I had with the herbals last year.
Joelene
I'm going to check my supermarket on my way to work. They have a pretty decent organic section with a ton a tea.
New here, but this caught my eye. This is my biggest fear is being stuck as a female Chewbacca, how much body hair reduction can someone realistically expect? Shaving is a huge problem because the hair is so thick ingrown hairs always happen and become totally unbearable. I'm going to start with laser on my face and neck but the cost of my entire body... well I'd almost rather put a down payment on a house! ANY info would be great, thanks.
I was covered with fairly thick fur (ewwwww). 11 months of Normal spiro + started "prostrate problem" dosage of finisteride 5 months in and I very little left. All the back and butt fur is gone, leg fur is a light shave strays once every two weeks. Before I had to shave every morning. Arm fur is getting to the point where it's OK with a touch up with a trimmer once a month. All the hair on backs of my hands has disappeared. Face hair has slowed down a touch but still requires morning shave, same with neck but it now comes back slow enough where I don't see any till the next morning.
I know I haven't been lucky in the tolerating E department but got real lucky on the fur reduction :)
Well about another month or so and I'll be able to start HRT, just trying to sort out the "clean up" list if it were. I don't mind a little to take care of on legs and arms, ANY thing will be an improvement over the "carpet" i have now!
God I hate shaving so much!
Quote from: sweettexastgirl409 on March 15, 2012, 08:03:51 AM
God I hate shaving so much!
Join the club,
we grown our own sweaters we've got jackets.
Quote from: Sarah7 on November 15, 2011, 02:51:58 PM
Body hair loss seems to be one of the slow ones. Most people start noticing differences at 6 months to a year, with maximum effects at over 3 years. Also, post orchie/SRS people seem to lose a whole bunch more body hair.
I dunno, it sounds about right to me. It sounds almost exactly like how DHT kills the hair on the top of your head. It doesn't kill it right away as much as it slowly strangles it to death.
I only really got rid of it on an ad hoc basis. Generally, if it's Just That Important, than I spring for wax. Otherwise, I use a combination of shaving and Nair (One attempt to shave my butt was all I ever needed). I'm kind of out of practice, anyway. I'm purposefully not touching the hair just so I can see how the HRT affects it. I'm a bit of a hippie, though, so I don't really mind it that much :D.
I'm on four months' HRT right now, and all my hair is still
there. It's just that a whole bunch of it has turned translucent and thin. For instance, almost all the hair above my stomach is like that now. The area between my breasts has a little vertical trail of "real" hair, but I've noticed it's a lot finer and shorter than it used to be. The rest of my body is similar, but not as dramatic. That's one reason electrologists and laser techs recommend not coming to them for body hair until you've given HRT a try.
Quote from: raya on March 18, 2012, 01:39:48 AM
I'm on four months' HRT right now, and all my hair is still there. It's just that a whole bunch of it has turned translucent and thin. For instance, almost all the hair above my stomach is like that now. The area between my breasts has a little vertical trail of "real" hair, but I've noticed it's a lot finer and shorter than it used to be. The rest of my body is similar, but not as dramatic. That's one reason electrologists and laser techs recommend not coming to them for body hair until you've given HRT a try.
An electrologist would certainly suggest you give the hormones and blockers a chance to impact the hairs but a laser tech should not be telling you this at all. and here's why. The laser is only ever going to work on hair that's thick and dark and growing from skin that's light in colour. It doesn't work on 1.fine hair, 2.hair that isn't almost black, or 3.hair that's growing from darker skin tones. If you've noticed your hair reducing from laser treatments and you fall into any of the three categories I've identified the chances are it's your hormone regime that's causing the reduction and not the laser. Either that or you'll probably find it comes back in a few months time as more and more people are finding to be the case. A laser tech should be telling you to hit the hairs before you start hormones or AAs this way the hairs will more likely be dark and thick enough for the laser to treat in some degree. Once they've lost their pigment and become finer as is typical ... ish after hormones they won't be affected by laser.
An electrologist on the other hand would be better able to treat effectively Any growth that is left after a period of time has passed on hormones. It could well be that the remaining hairs would have thinned to a point where only the thicker darker ones need getting rid of. An electrologist could do this without possibly stimulating additional growth surrounding the ones that do actually need removing. The removal process is more selective with electrolysis.
It does take a while for the hormones to impact any hair you might have. It's fair to say a couple of years rather than a few months. You might see a reduction in a few months but in general it does take longer. If you've started to wax or epilate then the hairs do appear finer when they grow through. A new hair starts it's life with a tapered tip that is quite often without pigment and this does make it look like the hairs are reducing. If you were to let them grow through and shave them off you'd notice a dark stubble similar to what you had before you started, certainly once a couple of months had passed and the hairs had, had a chance to come through again. I'm about 3 years without T now and without doubt I have less body hair everywhere but I'm also nearing 50 and age will also play a part in reducing hair. I have a male friend who's overflowing with T and he has lost most of the hair on his lower legs where once they were gorilla typeII. He's NEVER waxed, sugared, epilated or anything else.... he just got older....
The fine downey type hair is quite normal on a lot of G females and lots of women face a daily battle with hair in all of the places that have been mentioned in this thread. From what I have seen, read and heard it's all part of being a woman, Ain't life a beach.
Facial hair won't be affected much if at all by hormones or blockers. At best the growth might slow a little but if it's an established beard growth it will probably stay just as dark and thick.
Hair removal hard fact: The sooner you start the sooner you will be finished. If you're even considering transition it would be wise to start Now! Even if you decide you move forward without transitioning, having no facial hair is very convenient and it does make you look younger which is always a nice bonus ;)
Hope this helps...
Quote from: smooth on March 18, 2012, 04:19:31 AM
An electrologist would certainly suggest you give the hormones and blockers a chance to impact the hairs but a laser tech should not be telling you this at all. and here's why. The laser is only ever going to work on hair that's thick and dark and growing from skin that's light in colour. It doesn't work on 1.fine hair, 2.hair that isn't almost black, or 3.hair that's growing from darker skin tones. If you've noticed your hair reducing from laser treatments and you fall into any of the three categories I've identified the chances are it's your hormone regime that's causing the reduction and not the laser. Either that or you'll probably find it comes back in a few months time as more and more people are finding to be the case.
As a Fitzpatrick Type V who's getting excellent results with laser, I have to step in here. Nd:YAG lasers can work for pretty much everybody but people with both pale skin and pale hair. If your darker skinned friends are going to one of those quacks trying to use a diode or (ugh) alexandrite laser on them, of course they won't be happy. Dark skinned people can get great results with laser, they just have to cut through the hype and do their own research. It took me months to find someone I trusted. I can't count how many "laser clinics" who only had alexandrite lasers told me to "just come on in"...
I'm not suggesting anything about you in particular. It's just the first thing I learned transitioning is that people who have light skin and straight hair tend to be poor authorities on what's out there for people who don't. I think the main reason dark-skinned people stay away from laser is because of the chorus of well-meaning but ignorant people repeating lore that's almost a decade out of date.
On your other points, I'll have to concede as not having a dog in that fight. I'm not enamored of the hairless look. If it retreats to typical female levels, I consider it mission accomplished. So far, I'm pretty happy with what HRT is doing to my body hair.
I've just started treating a guy who had 4 yag sessions on his back and shoulders with no shedding. His observation was that if anything happened at all it merely made the hairs finer. He had one session with a soprano as well but was equally unimpressed. He's of Indian descent but has lighter skin than is typical. It's always going to be difficult to truly/fairly compare any treatments being done in different locations by different techs on different people.... I hope it works out for you. Also I agree that a totally hairless look isn't necessarily a good thing. Most females do still have some body hair here and there and a similar pattern can be expected by a trans female once hormones have done their thing and with a little luck thrown in for good measure.
There are woman with chest hair and back hair, it's not uncommon, specially if you are spanish, french or italian
but I think the hormones will work only in "male areas" like chest, back, hands, fingers and that kind of stuff
I've started my HRT at 17 so I've never developed beard or hair in male areas. Only in the legs and a lil' bit in the arms so I didn't notice too much difference.
Quote from: Stephe on February 19, 2012, 10:58:55 PM
I was covered with fairly thick fur (ewwwww). 11 months of Normal spiro + started "prostrate problem" dosage of finisteride 5 months in and I very little left. All the back and butt fur is gone, leg fur is a light shave strays once every two weeks. Before I had to shave every morning. Arm fur is getting to the point where it's OK with a touch up with a trimmer once a month. All the hair on backs of my hands has disappeared. Face hair has slowed down a touch but still requires morning shave, same with neck but it now comes back slow enough where I don't see any till the next morning.
I know I haven't been lucky in the tolerating E department but got real lucky on the fur reduction :)
Your blocking the T which makes certain hairs grow. Many who take HRT do not get to block the T but just get the E estrogen. If people here would take spiro or get testes removed they would do so much better than just taking E for boobs and soft skin.. even some people the E trns into more T in the body and so they don't lose T but get more..
oh well i have mentioned this for yrs but it seems people never read this stuff anymore or they don't go to my friends site at http://www.tsroadmap.com/index.html (http://www.tsroadmap.com/index.html)
Quote from: Amazon D on March 28, 2012, 06:50:16 PM
even some people the E trns into more T in the body and so they don't lose T but get more..
Can you provide a medical source for that? Everything I've seen implies that T can turn into E, but not vice versa.
Quote from: Jeneva on March 28, 2012, 07:12:25 PM
Can you provide a medical source for that? Everything I've seen implies that T can turn into E, but not vice versa.
I am not sure where i read it but i did read where too much estrogen can be converted into a testosterone like substance that affects your body hair. It may not be exactly T but its a steroid that affects your bodies hair growth. Some estrogens do not stop body hair growth.
MTF hair removal: prioritizing
14 ways to naturally Increase your testosterone
http://www.nowloss.com/ways-to-increase-testosterone-levels-naturally-without-using-steroids.htm (http://www.nowloss.com/ways-to-increase-testosterone-levels-naturally-without-using-steroids.htm)
also
After reading my overview on prioritizing transition, you need to figure out .... the
papers and been turned away because they hadn't completed hair removal. ...
The estrogens are not as important as the testosterone blockers as far as hair
goes.
www.tsroadmap.com/physical/hair/zappriority.html (http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/hair/zappriority.html)
Quote from: Amazon D on March 28, 2012, 06:50:16 PM
Many who take HRT do not get to block the T but just get the E estrogen. If people here would take spiro or get testes removed they would do so much better than just taking E for boobs and soft skin.
I do know in the past large doses of E were used alone, but I really haven't see that lately.
Personally I've never heard of someone doing HRT in a modern environment that doesn't take both a blocker and an estrogen. Keeping in mind that out side the US you will usually see Cyproterone acetate instead of spiro used for T blocking. There are also other drugs like Bicalutamide that block T. I've even seen most people say they start with just a blocker and then add E. Even though I started DIY I took different blockers for a bit over a year before I added E.
As far as an orchidectomy goes, for those of us that do want SRS eventually, we have to weight the cost now out of our savings against the benefits of losing those evil lumps sooner. Also an orchi is still considered to require the two letters. In the US I know of TWO doctors who will do an Orchi without letters, but keep in mind that if you are working with a therapist for the SRS letters and you use a backdoor like that then it will be a black mark against you and may mean it takes longer to get the letters because you aren't following the process and that is one of the things they are supposed to talk about in your letters (how well you followed the rules). I know for me that when I told my therapist I was getting FFS/BA if it hadn't been in an email BEFORE an appointment where she had time to research it, I'd have to have done a LOT of explaining why I did talk to her about it first.
I think I'll start a new thread about the whole orchi before SRS actually because I'm really torn after this weeks endo appointment because he told me I ought to get it done now. He was going to find me a local person until I told him how much the Dr in WI charges (>3k) and then he said just go there because you won't touch that cost locally.
Quote from: Jeneva on March 29, 2012, 09:29:46 AM
I do know in the past large doses of E were used alone, but I really haven't see that lately.
Personally I've never heard of someone doing HRT in a modern environment that doesn't take both a blocker and an estrogen. Keeping in mind that out side the US you will usually see Cyproterone acetate instead of spiro used for T blocking. There are also other drugs like Bicalutamide that block T. I've even seen most people say they start with just a blocker and then add E. Even though I started DIY I took different blockers for a bit over a year before I added E.
As far as an orchidectomy goes, for those of us that do want SRS eventually, we have to weight the cost now out of our savings against the benefits of losing those evil lumps sooner. Also an orchi is still considered to require the two letters. In the US I know of TWO doctors who will do an Orchi without letters, but keep in mind that if you are working with a therapist for the SRS letters and you use a backdoor like that then it will be a black mark against you and may mean it takes longer to get the letters because you aren't following the process and that is one of the things they are supposed to talk about in your letters (how well you followed the rules). I know for me that when I told my therapist I was getting FFS/BA if it hadn't been in an email BEFORE an appointment where she had time to research it, I'd have to have done a LOT of explaining why I did talk to her about it first.
I think I'll start a new thread about the whole orchi before SRS actually because I'm really torn after this weeks endo appointment because he told me I ought to get it done now. He was going to find me a local person until I told him how much the Dr in WI charges (>3k) and then he said just go there because you won't touch that cost locally.
If you do get an orchy you don't have to tell anybody except your GRS Dr. I also got some nice scars which worked great for the end cap to my canal since it had no hairs on it as dr meltzer told me.
and my HRT experience was just estradiol valerate 15 yrs ago so i never did the spiro because i did get my own private orchy by a Dr Spector who has since died.
Yes today things are different. ;)
HRT has had a huge effect on my skin and hair after 1 year. Several inches is growing back on my head (though downey, not dark...yet...I have hope, it keeps getting thicker)
The hair on my arms has gone from thick and brown to thin and blond. My pit hair has becoming fuzzy. The hair on my body is very thin, you don't really see it unless it grows long.
The hair on my back is gone (I only had a little), I still have dark hair on my chest and stomach but it's very thin and easy to shave.
I feel like my hair and skin is pretty much what I'd expect from a girl.
I bet the salons make a fortune off them hairy transsexuals! :laugh:
Seriously though, I didn't have much body hair just a line of hair down my chest/stomach area and that's it.
Waxing is a good option to start off with. It can get the mat under control so you can shave whatever. Fortunately I wasn't very hairy and laser and AAs got rid of most.
Before anyone totally freaks out that AAs didn't get rid of most of their hair, please remember that cis-women come with many levels of hairiness too. My biological sister was just as hairy as me on her arms and legs. Some people are going to have a genetic predisposition to hair and it doesn't mean their AAs aren't working or they aren't really trans. Think of someone with a Greek ethnic origin and how hairy they usually are.
Basically this is a huge YMMV.