Today, Drag Queens may have gotten the idea that this isn't the place for them, and that they ought to go elsewhere for their information. But Susan clearly defines Drag Kings and Drag Queens as Transgender, right in the Announcements section. So when you run into a King or Queen here, act like you have some manners, and treat them like royalty. Hugs, Tracey
Quote from: Tracey on November 16, 2011, 06:24:25 PM
Today, Drag Queens may have gotten the idea that this isn't the place for them, and that they ought to go elsewhere for their information. But Susan clearly defines Drag Kings and Drag Queens as Transgender, right in the Announcements section. So when you run into a King or Queen here, act like you have some manners, and treat them like royalty. Hugs, Tracey
Unlikely. the Mods don't even see them as part of our community.
Cisgay men aren't well received in the community.
Actually The Imperial Court, which dates back to 1965 is the second largest LGBT organizations with only the MCC having a larger outreach. And in terms of raising money for charity they are far and away the top LGBT group and HAVE BEEN FOR DECADES NOW. For all the people who still need a nickle from mommy to buy a clue, the Imperial Court is one of the main reasons there is a T in LGBT. But since The Imperial Court, and drag queens in general tend to be people who go out, relate with other people, have social skills and tend not to have any major psychological problems that they can blame on others, I can see where there might not be much for them here.
Quote from: tekla on November 16, 2011, 07:51:12 PM
The Imperial Court, and drag queens in general tend to be people who go out, relate with other people, have social skills and tend not to have any major psychological problems that they can blame on others, I can see where there might not be much for them here.
Yeah, most drag queens/transgender performers are treated pretty well when they go out. It is a lot of work to look like that. Althought a lot of transwomen want to be accepted as women by society, to reach that point is a lot of work.
You saw on my fb page how I linked drag and transitioning to a certain point. I am born male, I might as well make the best of it and look fabulous. I could elaborate on this...But the mods are watchin me.
There are those that believe that drag queens are gay men who mock women, not out of a sense of solidarity but out of fear and disdain.
Quote from: Happy Girl! on November 16, 2011, 07:57:09 PM
There are those that believe that drag queens are gay men who mock women, not out of a sense of solidarity but out of fear and disdain.
Okay, most of my drag queen friends have more female fans. Gay men are the constant companion to some woman. I am sure gay men really fear women, after all a lot of them idolize their mothers...they just normally fear straight men. LOL
If you think DIVINE is mocking you... you might also think that painting is laughing at you too. Drag queens don't care about cis or transwomen and there are many different kind of drags.
Quote from: Tracey on November 16, 2011, 06:24:25 PM
Today, Drag Queens may have gotten the idea that this isn't the place for them, and that they ought to go elsewhere for their information. But Susan clearly defines Drag Kings and Drag Queens as Transgender, right in the Announcements section. So when you run into a King or Queen here, act like you have some manners, and treat them like royalty. Hugs, Tracey
Agreed. Hail the Kings and Queens.
Kia Ora,
::) Even though "Drag Queen" is a popular term, I often wonder do those who happen to fit this description actually like being called 'Drag Queens' ? Or would they prefer to be called something else, like female impersonator or drag 'artist' or..........Do they have a similar problem like many here have with the trans-label thing....In a sense the term drag queen could come across as somewhat 'derogatory' to some...
::) Not trying to hijack your thread Tracey, hopefully the above comment complements it in some small way......
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Zenda on November 16, 2011, 09:52:20 PM
Kia Ora,
::) Even though "Drag Queen" is a popular term, I often wonder do those who happen to fit this description actually like being called 'Drag Queens' ? Or would they prefer to be called something else, like female impersonator or drag 'artist' or..........Do they have a similar problem like many here have with the trans-label thing....In a sense it can come across as somewhat 'derogatory'...
::) Not trying to hijack your thread Tracey, hopefully the above comment complements it in some small way......
Metta Zenda :)
If I worked for AsiaSF, I'd be a "gender illusionist" I had that and "ladyboy" up as my careers on fb last year.
Quote from: Elle Le Harlot on November 16, 2011, 07:43:19 PM
Unlikely. the Mods don't even see them as part of our community.
Depends on which community you're talking about.
They're welcome in my community. And so is the Staff! Seriously, Arch, I know the rule on public demonstration here, but someone got thrown under the bus by someone else, and then someone started this thread. Hugs, Tracey
There are those that believe that drag queens are gay men who mock women, not out of a sense of solidarity but out of fear and disdain.
Well there are people who believe that Jews secretly control the world, that Obama is both a Communist and a Nazi, that the moon landing never happened and was staged on a TV set, that Princess Di was executed on orders of the British Royal Family, that Obama is not a US citizen and not American, and that Global Warming is a scientific hoxe. They too would be wrong.
And if that's true - to follow up on Elle's thought - then (to rock with another analogy that was recently used in regard to this topic) women who get all dolled up (and they do here) and go to drag shows are on a par with black people who'd bring watermelon and chicken to a KKK picnic. They are simply being tools of their own oppression because they've been duped by these very cleaver guys. Yes, they don't even see that those Queens, when not cowering and trembling backstage because there might be 'real women' around, and 'real women' are very, very scary, are just people out to make them look bad, and they are not just passive fellow-travelers in their domination, they are actively promoting it, funding it even. How horrible must those women be? How fantastically ignorant are they?
How come all the GGs I've met at drag shows (for almost 40 years now, from SF to NYC, and in places like Des Moines Iowa and St. Louis too, from huge shows with famous stars to little productions in the back corner of a tiny bar in the middle of nowhere) don't seem ignorant or horrible. Matter of fact just the opposite. They tend (perhaps they are just fooling me) to be pretty savvy and worldly women with charming personalities and excellent social skills. The actually tend to be the kind of smart and popular girls who everyone wants around. (...so, you know, nothing like you...)
Oh wait.
I know what it is.
They have a sense of humor. And I don't think anything in human life is an incomprehensible as humor is to a person without a sense of humor. That goes for the Queens and for the GGs there. First, if there is mocking (and there is, mocking is funny as hell sometimes and lots of people deserve it) most of it is not directed at 'all women' as a class. It's directed at specific female entertainers, most of whom aspire to, or have made it, to Diva status. And if you've ever been around a real Diva, you know it's a highly unpleasant (except for the Diva) experience for everyone. So sure, the are mocking. They are mocking Charo, and Cher - and no matter how hard you try to put yourself in the same class as Charo or Cher, you are not them. They are mocking Madonna, Britney and Ga-Ga. Or is it an homage, if not utterly lavish devotion and veneration --- it gets hard to tell sometimes.
And here's a real clue for you, Madonna, Britney, Cher, Charo and Ga-Ga - this pleases them. They understand that in some way it means they have arrived, and that far from mocking, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Hell, for Madge and Ga-Ga drag to no small degree informs and inspires their performances. Pre-Ga-Ga, back when Stefani Germanotta was 13 and her mom was taking her from tiny club to tiny club in NYC looking for a place to perform a few songs it was drag queens at drag shows who either a) took pity on the poor girl (highly unlikely) or b) knew real talent when they saw it, let her get on stage. She's had quite the love for them ever since. I know for a fact that Cher and Madonna have both judged and participated in drag shows where everyone was doing them. I know that after her second show in SF that Ga-Ga went to ->-bleeped-<-shack. I know (because I was there on one increadiblly off-the-hook night) that Charo judged the Charo competition at ->-bleeped-<-shack. So"cuchi-cuchi" baby.
Matter of fact don't Madonna and Ga-Ga do their own outright drag characters? Joey Calderone I'm looking at you.
And does my friend, who plays in an all-girl AC/DC cover band called AC/DShe (there is a similar outfit on the East Coast called 'Hell's Belles') who does the best drag 'rock out with your cock out' Angus you've ever seen - does that out of fear and/or disdain? Did they pick on AC/DC because they are so easy to mock? Or because AC/DC just flat out rocks and nobody ever rocked out with their cock out like them boys did, and if your going to do it you might as well do the best? (Which also explains why the queens do Ga-Ga, Brit and Madge and Cher -- and why they did Ethyl Merman, Judy Garland, and Marilyn Monroe back in the day.)
When I go to a drag king show, where someone doing Elvis is almost mandated, do I think they are doing that to oppress all men? Hell no, they are doing the King, and I'm not the King, hell, I'm not even Prince.
Quote from: Elle Le Harlot on November 16, 2011, 07:43:19 PM
Unlikely. the Mods don't even see them as part of our community.
Susan's is an inclusive site, our umbrella includes drag queens and kings.
Z
Quote from: tekla on November 16, 2011, 10:22:08 PM
How come all the GGs I've met at drag shows (for almost 40 years now, from SF to NYC, and in places like Des Moines Iowa and St. Louis too, from huge shows with famous stars to little productions in the back corner of a tiny bar in the middle of nowhere) don't seem ignorant or horrible. Matter of fact just the opposite. They tend (perhaps they are just fooling me) to be pretty savvy and worldly women with charming personalities and excellent social skills. The actually tend to be the kind of smart and popular girls who everyone wants around. (...so, you know, nothing like you...)
Every girl I know who goes to drag shows has an active social life, etc... They are basically fruitflies and every fruitfly I've ever known has been a strong woman. Drag shows scare the crap out of my b/f though.
Quote from: Zythyra on November 16, 2011, 10:28:59 PM
Susan's is an inclusive site, our umbrella includes drag queens and kings.
Z
Betcha a dollar against a dime that a self proclaimed ->-bleeped-<- porn preformer wouldn't last 2 days before she got shut down....
Quote from: cynthialee on November 16, 2011, 10:43:30 PM
Betcha a dollar against a dime that a self proclaimed ->-bleeped-<- porn preformer wouldn't last 2 days before she got shut down....
I've lasted like a month here and I'm a transgender performer. I got offered to do porn, but didn't have the "part" they were looking for. Actually the part didn't work.
Quote from: Elle Le Harlot on November 16, 2011, 10:48:30 PM
I've lasted like a month here and I'm a transgender performer. I got offered to do porn, but didn't have the "part" they were looking for. Actually the part didn't work.
and how long did it take to get that watched badge?
;)
Quote from: cynthialee on November 16, 2011, 10:52:50 PM
and how long did it take to get that watched badge?
;)
3 weeks I believe... I think I earned it what with my attitude and cattiness.
She got a 'watched' in less time than I did - needless to say I'm impressed to the point of veneration.
Quote from: tekla on November 16, 2011, 10:54:41 PM
She got a 'watched' in less time than I did - needless to say I'm impressed to the point of veneration.
Yeah, much of it was a mix of honesty and defending myself.
Kinda like a mojito of truth.
;D
I think you just made my point rather well.
8)
Quote from: cynthialee on November 16, 2011, 11:01:32 PM
;D
I think you just made my point rather well.
8)
I took a vicodin last night..still feeling the effects.
Vicodin...hmmmm
we do have something in common after all!
:D
Quote from: cynthialee on November 16, 2011, 11:15:10 PM
Vicodin...hmmmm
we do have something in common after all!
:D
I've been having a lot of issues lately. It relaxes me.
Me, its allot of pain.
HIV related pain syndrom and fybromyalgia team up to kick my ass hard on a near daily bassis.
Quote from: cynthialee on November 16, 2011, 11:22:44 PM
Me, its allot of pain.
HIV related pain syndrom and fybromyalgia team up to kick my ass hard on a near daily bassis.
I just have been depressed due to not being able to get out of the house and socialize without drama from my mister.
That and I couldn't afford to change my name. So more in the gutter until I can raise 600 somehow.
a mix of honesty and defending myself.
Yeah that honesty thing gets 'em every time. Really, (and kids, pay close attention here) if you want to be liked. If you want to be popular. If you want to go to the A-List parties and get taken out to $200 lunches every week all you have to do is lie. Lie, lie, lie. Lie like a rug lie. The more you can tell people the lies they really want to hear, the more popular you will be.
And, if you want to go the other way, tell the truth. Tell the truth regardless. And work on making it very plain and unvarnished. The simple honest truth. The plainer you can speak the truth the more people you'll find who will create two-minute hates in your honor.
Quote from: tekla on November 17, 2011, 12:04:03 AM
a mix of honesty and defending myself.
Yeah that honesty thing gets 'em every time. Really, (and kids, pay close attention here) if you want to be liked. If you want to be popular. If you want to go to the A-List parties and get taken out to $200 lunches every week all you have to do is lie. Lie, lie, lie. Lie like a rug lie. The more you can tell people the lies they really want to hear, the more popular you will be.
I can't do that. I would rather not compromise my honesty than be popular, especially in a situation like this.
But in the SF a-list scene...I totally agree with lies. But most of the people are beautiful there, so I am not lying.
I used to do a lot of art stuff, exhibitions, gallery openings, theater stuff - you know anywhere where they are serving free wine and snacks. And I got really good at being honest without offending people but it was very tricky. You have to go with stuff that is so vague that it's impossible to really tell. Here are some of my top hits.
Only you could do something like that. (because anyone else would have done something better)
I've never seen anything like that. (and god willing, I never will again)
This is amazing! (amazingly bad)
Kia Ora,
::) What one gives out[advice, scorn etc]-they must be prepared to get back- and the getting back for some is a hard pill to swallow !
Metta Zenda :)
If you're talking about people who tell the truth most of the time tend to get the truth told to them, while people who don't tend to get lied to a lot more - I'll kind of buy that. That's the old sugar for sugar, salt for salt thing. I know that being truthful with people has led them to be truthful with me, telling me things that they would never share with anyone else. I also know that people who lie a lot are pretty easy to lie to, and people who tend to truth are harder to lie to.
But, if your talking some sort of karma deal, then I'm not so sold. I've seen far too many examples of human scum bags having awesome lives, and of good, decent people getting nothing but suffering and abuse piled on them. I'm convinced that that's why the 'karma' faith systems had to invent reincarnation to get around the fact that pretty much everywhere, and throughout history, karma seldom works out in in real people's real lives in that nice, neat morality play.
And I should add that I tend to truthfulness not out of some superior morality, or because I have some sort of core value like the 'radical honesty' people do. I tend to truth because: a) I'm not creative enough, and quick enough to do those kind of mental gymnastics all the time and what little creativity I have I choose to use on other things, and, b) I'm really, really lazy. Really. And I don't want to have to constantly expend the energy to keep all those stories straight, and to always have to be thinking 'what did I tell this person?'. If you tell the truth you never have to do that.
The fact that - a lot like choosing to be happy and live in joy - it just pisses so many people off is just a bonus.
Kia Ora Tekla,
::) What I meant was, at times some people are quite capable of dishing out truths[how they personally see things, sometime using constructive criticism, other times in a vindictive manner ], but the same people have a hard time when they are on the receiving end of the other person's truth...
::) Being brutally open and honest with ones 'opinions' is not necessarily the 'truth', just that person's personal 'beliefs' on the matter at hand...........
In other words ones personal honesty does not always equate the 'truth' of the situation...........Example "I might 'think' so and so is stupid/ugly/fat/obnoxious/etc !"[not that I ever would think that of a person] when another might think[the same person] is street-wise/attractive/voluptuous/up-front/etc ...
::) Now karma's another topic altogether- "You reap what you sow" The word literally means 'action' and for the most part we're all aware of the universal laws of cause, condition, effect and results-for every action there's a reaction= Dependent Origination it's part and parcel of 'life' as we know it...One can't escape it...
However reincarnation can be a hard pill to swallow, even I don't 'believe' in this, however I can quite comfortably believe in the Buddhist concept of rebirth...Reincarnation and rebirth are two different things as you know-[well I'm presuming you know, but I could be wrong-I have been known to be wrong at times ;) ...
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from Zythyra "Susans is an inclusive site. Our umbrella includes drag queens and kings." That's the Susans I signed up for. Thanks for clarifying that. Hugs, Tracey
For Tekla. I believe that the moon landing never happened!
What about JOHNs.. they should be added to the LGBTQ+J :)
They suffer lots of sexual discrimination.. why aren't they included here ???
Someone said we need a Drag Forum. We had a "We need a Drag Queen Forum" thread by Mahsa but the thread was locked so I can't bump it. That thread spawned this one, here it is for your viewing pleasure. (again) Hugs, Devlyn
Devlyn,
I'd suggest making a post in the Suggestions forum.