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Kia Ora,

::) When I say atheist I mean an "open-out" atheist, one whose not afraid to speak openly about not having a belief in a god or the supernatural... It's quite possible there have been atheist presidents in the past but due to public pressure they have [like gay and trans people] remained in the closet with their beliefs...

Many countries have elected openly atheist and or agnostic heads of state...
For the most part humanistic atheism is not much different from a faith system that promote equality, human rights, helping the needy, etc...The only difference so it would seem, is the lack of a god figure calling the shots...

::) Australia has an openly atheist Prime Minister Julia Gillard , here in NZ we have had agnostic Prime Minsters Helen Clark comes to mind... I'm under the impression our present PM John Key[whose mother was Jewish-which according to Jewish law make him Jewish]is somewhat agnostic in his beliefs...

::) So what do you think??? Will America ever have an atheist president or do you think religion is so entrenched in the American psyche that only when  >:-) hell freezes over will this happen ?

Metta Zenda :)

No, we are a God-fearing christian nation

I would say no, but a more precise answer would be HELL NO.

Let's face it, people in this country take their religion very seriously, especially if they are in the mainstream.  An out atheist would get too much negative press.

Not if they say so, but so long as they give it some lip service, then all bets are off, we've elected plenty of them.

Quote from: tekla on November 27, 2011, 10:53:26 PM
Not if they say so, but so long as they give it some lip service, then all bets are off, we've elected plenty of them.

Politics is the art of giving lip service.

Ya'll gets them political types down that way that can put a lip lock on a long-neck from four counties away.

I honestly couldn't care less what a president believes in so long as he understands that when he sits in the oval office, he represents ALL OF US and not just those that subscribe to his/her brand of talking snake and as such it is his/her obligation to make decisions accordingly.

Sadly the most fanatical and craziest of the religious are also those with the loudest voices and largest bases and as such it would be political suicide to even utter those words.

What really shocks me and makes me want to cry sometimes is not when I hear candidates obviously lie about being religious so that they may pander to the christians (let's be honest, that is the governing majority) but when to pander to that same crowd they say things like "I do not believe in evolution and/or it is a theory among others"

When it takes shelving common sense, rational thought and empirical evidence to get elected in this country what hope do we really have?

Kia Ora,
]
::) Thanks for the responses so far...

::) OK this has been a little slow on the up take so.............................Would America ever elect a non Christian, say for example a Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim or Jew {I guess Buddhist for the most part would be seen as atheist or at least non theistic]

Metta Zenda :)

When I was a kid, I wanted to be the president. Some of my most shameful memories are of teachers laughing at me after I said (childishly, sure) that I was going to be the president. Every single effing one of them said you can't do that you're a girl.

I'm an atheist. I don't think that matters. I have great respect for christians and hindus and jews and several other kinds of followers. What they do is good and important. We need to believe powerfully. I believe in the dynamics of cells, blood, light, planets, neurons, etc. That's my faith. Having faith is good.

Nobody ever treated me like I was nothing for being an atheist.

As long as the christian groups are so large, and they continue to fight against the separation of church of state, there will not be a president who does not identify as christian.

Kia Ora

(and thanks Mr Hockey for jump starting this thread again)

I've changed the title to get some feedback from "religious" trans-members...

::) So as a "religious" trans-person would you vote for an "atheist" president ?


Metta Zenda :)

Who's to say we haven't already.  There are a lot of atheist politicians out there that just don't cop to it.  What you don't say to get elected is just as important as what you do say.

There will be an (open and out) Atheist president within my lifetime. It's becoming more and more acceptable to be Atheist or non-theist it seems. (It even seems that the majority of people in my age group, in the part of the country where I live are Atheists or non-theists who openly state that they think religion is irrelevant and I'd expect this number to grow and spread in the next few decades)

While there will still be a sizeable group of people who wouldn't vote for an Atheist (though, those same people probably wouldn't vote for any theist who is a non-Christian), the number of Atheists, Agnostics, unaffiliated, non-Christian religious, etc. in the population are growing. With more diversity, there's a greater chance that a non-Christian will be voted into office within the next few decades.

We just had our first African-American president voted in for a second term, which is something that was completely unfathomable just a short while ago. We also had our first female vice presidential candidate in a major party run for office, which is also something that was unfathomable a few decades ago. Following the tide of progress and more diversity, it's only highly likely that an Atheist will either be a serious candidate in a major party or get voted into office.

As a non-Christian religious trans person, I would vote for an Atheist. I'd also vote for a Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Baha'i, etc. I vote for a person's politics and character, not their religion or lack of it.

Quote from: Mr Hockey on February 22, 2014, 06:39:56 PM
No. With all the bigoted Christians who are so full of themselves in this country, they'd never elect an Atheist president even if he was well qualified. I hope I'm wrong though.

Mr. Hockey, it is bad form to necro' and old topic like this, and doubly bad form to do it while violating Rule #10 of the terms of service (viz. "bashing").

Just sayin'

I think we will eventually have an openly atheist president, but not a chance of it in the next 5 or 10 election cycles. Someday.

Just because a president or presidential candidate "claims" to be Christian, doesn't mean that they are.  Chances are, I would never look to a president as a spiritual leader.

With that being said, personally I wouldn't vote, but if I was forced to vote, and an atheist caught my attention with what they promise to bring to the table, especially concerning working class and LBGT people, etc., then I would vote for them.

Lmfao no


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Not in our lifetimes.  I remember when Russ Feingold got a divorce while he was a prominent Senator, it was pretty widely reported because being divorced eliminated him from any future presidential aspirations. 

Quote from: skin on October 23, 2014, 01:05:20 PM
Not in our lifetimes.  I remember when Russ Feingold got a divorce while he was a prominent Senator, it was pretty widely reported because being divorced eliminated him from any future presidential aspirations. 

People said no major party would nominate a Mormon before Mitt. People said there couldn't be a black president, before Obama was elected. Don't think an atheist president is any less likely.

And a divorced guy? He was elected twice, once in 1980 and again in 1984.

Of course an atheist could be elected President, if a majority could re-elect a complete failure, then anything is possible, probable even. I doubt we'll ever elect a decent competent President again. America's best days are long behind it I'm afraid.

Watch the movie 'Idiocracy'... that's our future.  ;)

Quote from: amZo on October 24, 2014, 08:56:36 AM
America's best days are long behind it I'm afraid.

Off topic, but I can't let this go unchallenged.

Just a few years ago, two men couldn't marry each other anywhere in the country and neither could serve their country in the armed forces.
Just a few years before that, even a man and a woman couldn't marry in a lot of places if they were different races.
Go back a few more years, and people of color were forced to sit on the back of busses and weren't allowed in a lot of businesses.
Go back a few more years, and women were not even allowed to vote.
A few years before that, it was legal to hold people slaves in this country as long as their skin was the wrong color.

America's best days are NOW.

I Think It's possible because America likes to pull cards vs actually doing something about what's going on. Sell a story to get people  to feel good and  then the atheist president will be a rewind.

It's already been done. It's mostly just politics to state one has a religious affiliation.  >:-)

Quote from: Felix on December 03, 2011, 03:32:31 AM
When I was a kid, I wanted to be the president. Some of my most shameful memories are of teachers laughing at me after I said (childishly, sure) that I was going to be the president. Every single effing one of them said you can't do that you're a girl.

I'm an atheist. I don't think that matters. I have great respect for christians and hindus and jews and several other kinds of followers. What they do is good and important. We need to believe powerfully. I believe in the dynamics of cells, blood, light, planets, neurons, etc. That's my faith. Having faith is good.

Nobody ever treated me like I was nothing for being an atheist.

Anyone can become anything if they believe in it and try.  I am Christian and have respect for Atheist too, we all live in this world if we like it or not.  I will never force my beliefs on anyone but will talk openly to anyone interested.  Good people come in all forms, shapes, and sizes :-)

It's pretty obvious to me that Obama is an atheist, and I don't know how transparent it needs to be to have an openly atheist president.  As Machiavelli says, when ruling a people, one should take on their beliefs and values as a robe, including their gods even if you don't believe in them.  So I think we'll have an *openly* atheist president when the majority of people are atheist.

Thats funny since so many people are also certain he is a socialist muslim jihadist :o :o :o ;D

Quote from: Tessa James on May 26, 2015, 01:23:09 AM
Thats funny since so many people are also certain he is a socialist muslim jihadist :o :o :o ;D

You forgot "from Kenya".

I've always been amused that most Western nations' Governments start proceedings with prayers and then slag each over off, break electoral promises and proceed to break each of the Ten Commandments!

and then they say a nice confession and are forgiven.  Souls are restored and saints be praised >:-)

Quote from: Cindy on May 26, 2015, 03:22:57 AM
I've always been amused that most Western nations' Governments start proceedings with prayers and then slag each over off, break electoral promises and proceed to break each of the Ten Commandments!

Maybe that's why so many of them insist on displaying them where they work, as a kind of daily reminder?

Myself, I am definitely guilty of coveting my neighbor's ass.  And her bewbs...  Le sigh.

Taking into consideration that the US was founded on the bible, there is no chance a non-Christian president will ever be elected. The church and the religious right has so much political power there is no way they would allow it. And when you think about it extends beyond the presidency. How many Muslim senators can you name? What about Jewish congressmen? Any Pagan governors? If you can name even one, I would be willing to bet they weren't able to finish their first term in office, not because of the way they ran their politics, but because of their religion.

Quote from: Jennifer RachaelAnn on June 26, 2017, 10:26:36 PM
Taking into consideration that the US was founded on the bible, there is no chance a non-Christian president will ever be elected. The church and the religious right has so much political power there is no way they would allow it. And when you think about it extends beyond the presidency. How many Muslim senators can you name? What about Jewish congressmen? Any Pagan governors? If you can name even one, I would be willing to bet they weren't able to finish their first term in office, not because of the way they ran their politics, but because of their religion.

My understanding was that the U.S. constitution was written to keep religion out of the government.  I know Thomas Jefferson certainly tried.  As for who's Muslim, Jewish etc., that's not something I generally keep track of, but you may have heard of Bernie Sanders.  He's Jewish, but my take is he has sense enough to not drag religion into politics.  One thing that's absolutely certain is that religion has no place in government.  It tends to bring problems when someone tries to drag it in.

Quote from: skin on October 23, 2014, 01:05:20 PM
Not in our lifetimes.  I remember when Russ Feingold got a divorce while he was a prominent Senator, it was pretty widely reported because being divorced eliminated him from any future presidential aspirations.

I do find it interesting that this poster from 2014 had the opinion that divorce would preclude someone from getting elected President.  Now there's two time divorcee Donald Trump in the White House.  It's interesting how times change, maybe there is hope for an atheist president.  Maybe there's hope for a transgender President :)

Paige :)

Quote from: Jennifer RachaelAnn on June 26, 2017, 10:26:36 PM
Taking into consideration that the US was founded on the bible, there is no chance a non-Christian president will ever be elected.

I respectfully disagree with your premise!  Even though there are many religious believers here, this is NOT a Christian country.  Please consider the following:

The word "God" does not appear in the U.S. Constitution.  (The Preamble invokes the authority of "We, the People" rather than God.)

"[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."  Article VI, U.S. Constitution, 1787.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." U.S. Constitution, Amendment 1, 1791.

" . . . the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion . . ."  Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, signed into law (with Senate ratification) by President John Adams, 1797.

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."  President Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Danbury Baptist Association, 1802.

"We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Gov."  James Madison, Letter to Edward Livingston, 1822.

I could go on all day.  But you get the picture.

Not founded as a Christian nation.

""The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses."
~John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" 1787-1788
https://hive.am/kB2nD

However, the truth has never stood in the way of religious fundamentalists' quest to impose their superstitions on everyone else by force.


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Just a matter of time. http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/

I would love to see a true atheist president.

Quote from: brandyvgs on June 27, 2017, 07:46:58 PM
I would love to see a true atheist president.

I would love to see the entire government filled with atheists.

QuoteThe word "God" does not appear in the U.S. Constitution.  (The Preamble invokes the authority of "We, the People" rather than God.)

In fact, the line "In God We Trust" was added to currency long after the U.S. was created.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust)

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on June 27, 2017, 07:08:45 PM
Just a matter of time. http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/

That's certainly a favourable trend.

It's obvious to me that no one here has ever heard of the Puritans. First European people to officially colonize this side of the Atlantic. They had their issues, but there was one thing they did that most have heard of. In a town called Salem Massachusetts they had a problem. It later came known to be the Salem witch trials. People accused of non-xtian thinking were executed. They then forced xtianity on the natives. A few years after that, the American revolution. The constitution is nothing but glorified toilet paper. Maybe it meant something in 1776, but it means nothing now. If this country was truly not founded on the bible, then "In god we trust" would not be on money. It's a xtian view 100%.

Also tell me why the 10 commandments are on display in almost every courthouse. Why are there pictures and statues of jesus in so many government buildings?

And as for Bernie....did he get the democrat nomination or did Hilary?

Anyone who says this country wasn't founded on the bible, is living a lie.

Quote from: Jennifer RachaelAnn on June 27, 2017, 09:16:35 PM
It's obvious to me that no one here has ever heard of the Puritans. First European people to officially colonize this side of the Atlantic. They had their issues, but there was one thing they did that most have heard of. In a town called Salem Massachusetts they had a problem. It later came known to be the Salem witch trials. People accused of non-xtian thinking were executed. They then forced xtianity on the natives. A few years after that, the American revolution. The constitution is nothing but glorified toilet paper. Maybe it meant something in 1776, but it means nothing now. If this country was truly not founded on the bible, then "In god we trust" would not be on money. It's a xtian view 100%.

Also tell me why the 10 commandments are on display in almost every courthouse. Why are there pictures and statues of jesus in so many government buildings?

And as for Bernie....did he get the democrat nomination or did Hilary?

Anyone who says this country wasn't founded on the bible, is living a lie.

An interesting if inaccurate position to take about the founding of the USA and to what end my friend?  Today we heard the news that someone just took a vehicle and destroyed the 10 commandment plaque recently erected somewhere in the bible belt.  So what?  Religious righteousness is obviously pernicious and problematic.  BTW the nonsense phrase about "trust" on your money came about in the 1950s in some measure as a response to the "godless" communists.  There are volumes written about the founding of the USA and the more secular nature of those founders and their intentions.  Lies and the truth are best revealed by using scientific research and methods.  Opinions, well don't we have a few? :D

Quote from: Jennifer RachaelAnn on June 27, 2017, 09:16:35 PM
Also tell me why the 10 commandments are on display in almost every courthouse. Why are there pictures and statues of jesus in so many government buildings?

And as for Bernie....did he get the democrat nomination or did Hilary?

Anyone who says this country wasn't founded on the bible, is living a lie.

I don't think I've ever seen a picture or statute of Jesus in any public buildings, other than the Catholic schools we have here.

As for Bernie, your question was:

QuoteHow many Muslim senators can you name? What about Jewish congressmen? Any Pagan governors? If you can name even one, I would be willing to bet they weren't able to finish their first term in office, not because of the way they ran their politics, but because of their religion.

Bernie Sanders has been a senator since 2007.  That's 10 years.  He had also been a congressman for 16 years and a mayor for 8 years.  Seems to me he's finished at least one term in all that time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders)

QuoteBTW the nonsense phrase about "trust" on your money came about in the 1950s in some measure as a response to the "godless" communists.

I believe the link I provided earlier shows it first appeared in 1863, IIRC.

Quote from: Jennifer RachaelAnn on June 27, 2017, 09:16:35 PM
It's obvious to me that no one here has ever heard of the Puritans. . . . The constitution is nothing but glorified toilet paper. Maybe it meant something in 1776, but it means nothing now. . . . Also tell me why the 10 commandments are on display in almost every courthouse. Why are there pictures and statues of jesus in so many government buildings?

* * *

Anyone who says this country wasn't founded on the bible, is living a lie.

Yeah, actually we've all heard of the Puritans.  In fact, we've all met a few Puritans in our lives.

The Constitution means a lot to me.  As imperfect as it has always been (and remains), it's a positive general framework that's important.  In every generation, the Constitution has been attacked or subverted by forces in society who would like to reorganize the world according to an authoritarian (or oligarchic or theocratic) model.  So each generation has to decide whether the Constitution is meaningful and should be defended.  My answer is yes.  So I'll defend it to the maximum of my ability.

I'll also point out that if you give up the Constitution, it won't be long before you have those Puritans you're concerned about at your throat or burning you at the stake.

There aren't Ten Commandments monuments in American courthouses.  In Alabama a few years ago, the Bible-thumping Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court installed a Ten Commandments monument in the Court.  It was removed from the Courthouse by order of a federal judge (citing the First Amendment to the Constitution, by the way!) and the Chief Justice of the Alabama Court was removed from office for resisting the federal order.

I've never seen a picture of Jesus in a public building.

Cut us some slack here, Jennifer RachaelAnn!  We're your allies here on this thread, not your adversaries.  We're not living a lie.  (By the way, that's the same accusation a former friend made to me about being trans . . .)

The ten commandments are posted behind the judges chair in the county courthouse here where I live this very second. And just past the metal detectors, there is a picture of christ hanging up for all to see. Living in the bible belt sucks. I don't know what it's like for everyone else, but the first amendment has a different meaning here. You are free to choose your religion....as long as you're xtian. You can be catholic, methodist, baptist, pentecostal, lutheran, or non denominational as long as you worship christ. As for anything else.....flat out not welcome.

We have the national backbone of the last 240 years to thank for that one.


I'll cut people some slack when they stop going out of their way to tell me I'm wrong.

QuoteLiving in the bible belt sucks.

I occasionally hear in the news about some town, judge, etc. that runs afoul the constitution and law about keeping religion out of government.  I'm afraid Trump will only make this situation, like so many others, worse.

I live in the Bible Belt too and in our courthouse there is no Ten Commandments nor is there any pictures of Jesus.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Quote from: Deborah on June 30, 2017, 03:28:35 PM
I live in the Bible Belt too and in our courthouse there is no Ten Commandments nor is there any pictures of Jesus.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Lucky you.

Quote from: Deborah on June 30, 2017, 03:28:35 PM
I live in the Bible Belt too and in our courthouse there is no Ten Commandments nor is there any pictures of Jesus.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

I've just been reading an article in the current issue of The New Yorker (7/10/2017, "The Future is Texas") by Lawrence Wright.  It's a long article about the weird cast of political characters in Texas state politics.  These days, of course, it's practically a requirement to be a Bible-thumping Republican Christian to hold state office in Texas.  But it wasn't always so.

The last Democratic governor of Texas was Ann Richards in the early 90s.  Richards was a take-no-prisoners feminist and supporter of the separation of church and state.  One Christmas during her term of office, some state legislators set up a Nativity scene in the Texas State Capitol.  The ACLU sued on First Amendment grounds and the federal judge ordered the display removed.  A journalist asked Richards if she was going to obey the court order.

Richards answered that the state would obey the order and remove the display.  She added that it was a shame in a way, though, "because it's about the only time we ever had three wise men in the capitol."

 Actually, America was started by the First Nations who believed God was embodied by animals and Spirits. If you feel you need to have a white guy good. That would be  Leif Erickson. Erickson did not establish a colony because of all the natives. My relatives came in 1635 not because of religious freedom but rather as an indentured survent seeking opportunity.