I'm not even going to bother putting pictures up, trust me. I'm hideous.
Even if I'm not the ugliest person on the face of the earth, I'm not good looking, never have been...
I've tried living with it, but it's becoming more and more unbearable. I don't even leave my house unless I absolutely have to because I'm ashamed, embarrassed and humiliated to be seen outside with this face.
I'm coming to a realization and its becoming worse with age that even the FFS that I'm planning is not going to make me look good... I highly doubt I will ever pass as a woman and even if I do - I'll spend eternity being this ugly, awkward woman. Who the hell is going to hire me?
All these fantasies of being beautiful are never going to come true. All of these years of thinking I'm going to be beautiful when this is all over... it's a delusion.
All I see in pictures, in the mirror, in my webcam - is this ugly man who's looking older everyday. This ugly man that looks like he's about to die because he looks so sick. This ugly man with this receding hairline - my god I cant believe I have a receding hairline, Im 26!!! but there it is, its there and its just one more ugly thing...
I've spent an entire year of my life thinking about nothing but FFS, this obsession with plastic surgery, this hope that I'm going to be transformed from this ugly man into this beautiful woman.... when it's just not going to happen for me.
What do I do now? I have no idea... but I sure as hell can't make it through this. If I don't transition, nothing will change, I'll always be this miserable, tortured creature but I think I'm done with the dreaming. It'll have to die.
I would sell my soul to the Devil to be a beautiful woman. I never would have said that before because I believe in good and going to Heaven, but my God, I'm done for now, I swear I would. Anything, anything to be the woman I've wanted to be for so long - and to wake up from this horrible, horrible nightmare - this torture of the mind that never ends ... It is a god damn hell and im dying more and more every day.
Most men are living in a nightmare. It's perfectly natural.
Steve Irwin is an example of being a man who is happy
Note: this is rare.
Steve Irwin:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cairns.com.au%2Fimages%2Fuploadedfiles%2Feditorial%2Fpictures%2F2009%2F11%2F13%2Firwin-1.gif&hash=0042c1eae30416887312724e9ff4ebf56d4de8aa)
If you want to be happy get into nature and get a nice hippy lady to enjoy it with you.
I'm sure you've heard this before, but the results of hormones as well as FFS can create a completely different person. Though I feel confident that after much work, I'll be able to be beautiful, I can relate in a way due to my height. I'm 6'5 and lifted weights and tried to be macho in order to "fit in" and "hide" what I was dealing with from everyone else. So I have a few obstacles to face but I'm facing them because being a woman is all I want now. I'm tired of living a lie. I may never pass either due to looks or height, but da*nit I'm gonna become the person I'm suppose to be. I dont have any "tips" or anything like that, but what I can say is that if being a woman is something you truly are suppose to be, then do it and let that natural you shine. So many other transwomen have overcome a variety of obstacles and I feel like we all can overcome any obstacle thrown at us in transistion if we have the willpower.
Isn't this familiar.... someone else had a similar thread about her frustration about where her life is going... you might want to peek into that thread and see what we had to say.... go back through few pages of previous threads and you should find it
The reality is that there are a lot of plastic surgery procedures out there - nose surgery, jaw surgery, chin surgery, brow surgery, cheek surgery (bone and fat), hair transplants, ect ect. Then there's laser hair removal, form-fitting clothes and wigs (clothes and hairstyles designed to put less emphasis on tall, broad, or thick women), make-up, and even glasses or big hairbows and hats to put less emphasis on a large face. With enough money (the big problem), I've always been convinced that improvement is possible on literally anyone. Hormones feminize the skin and take care of oil and acne (and slowly stop hair thickness/balding). There's a lot of changes out there.
I mean, I think I look like a monster, but I can see very well what my face would look like with FFS and I believe in it very much. Sometimes the line between male and female is not so obvious, and like with my own face, I only want minimal changes (just a nose and brow surgery) because I've found plenty of beautiful women who resemble what I will look like with those features. I haven't found any women who resemble what I look like now (and men-wise, only ugly, nerdy basement men, like Jack Black), but with just a bit of surgery, I believe small things can do revolutional changes.
Now, maybe you need the whole Extreme Make-Over, or maybe you need to find more examples of women who you would resemble after a few smaller changes - either way, without even seeing you, I would say improvement is 99% of the time possible, and if you don't even fully pass, it can be more about expressing your personality, surgically achieving softer features even as a man or woman or androgyne, so that your personality shines through more realistically. I believe there's always something "closer" to the goal than what you're feeling like now, and if you post pictures, someone may be able to give some advice on specifically what changes you may need.
You might ask yourself what will make you happy with yourself. Are you a woman? Can you stand to live as a man? Are you willing to take your chances with hormones and surgery? Would you be happier as an average-looking woman or even a not-particularly-attractive woman than as any kind of man?
Before you give up hope, remember that a lot of trans people, particularly the women, have a fairly distorted view of their own attractiveness. Even I did this...I used to think I looked pretty horrible, but now that I'm living as a man, I can see an old picture of myself and realize that I was pretty cute before I gained so much weight. I just wasn't a girl.
What's your standard of attractiveness? I used to be with a guy that most people considered quite homely. He was skinny as a rail, wore glasses, and had a big nose and a funny-looking mouth. I thought he was the cutest thing on the planet.
There are things you can do for hair loss that might help right now. Also, if you're not on estrogen or at least hormone blockers, you have no idea what your face will look like down the road. Not to mention that a good surgeon can do wonders for a masculine-appearing face.
If you're feeling desperate, keep talking to your therapist. And keep coming to Susan's. We've all had our ups and downs, and we'll support you all we can.
What's wrong with being an ugly woman?
There are no ugly women. I firmly believe that.
If in your words, you've 'never been good looking as a guy', why do you have such high expectations of yourself as a beautiful woman? All women aren't models or meet society's standards of beauty. Most don't and for the few who do - that beauty is very fleeting.
It sounds like you have this idealized view of yourself as a woman. You can live a fulfilling life as a woman even if you aren't 'beautiful'.
Quote from: sysm29 on December 29, 2011, 09:31:46 PM
this hope that I'm going to be transformed from this ugly man into this beautiful woman.... when it's just not going to happen for me.
i can tell that you're one of those guys who want transition to become a goodlooking girl.
your problem is not being transgender, your problem is somewhere else, see a psychologist.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi845.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab11%2Fxmandeh%2Ftumblr_lk7wyczfWR1qepzdt.gif&hash=c3f165e5fb62867ac37315605c9ab3b269870429)
:( you're going to be okay, and you are beautiful.
I had this concern as well, my focus on my appearance is really high.
I will not be an attractive woman in the eyes of many, but I think
finding feminism has helped me discover that my concept of beauty
was distorted. You can find the beautiful woman in you. Stay strong <3
Quote from: Dana_H on December 29, 2011, 10:38:28 PM
There are no ugly women. I firmly believe that.
Oh, that is a very Pollyanna attitude. ::)
Quote from: Zarania on December 29, 2011, 10:59:39 PM
i can tell that you're one of those guys who want transition to become a goodlooking girl.
your problem is not being transgender, your problem is somewhere else, see a psychologist.
+1 to this with a caveat - people can want to transition from one gender to another gender based on apperances and still be transgender
Didn't we have a thread similar in this vein, "If you knew you couldn't pass, would you have transitioned anyway?" few weeks ago?
Here - I did you the courtesy and found you that thread... maybe it would be some comfort to you to read about others' in that thread
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,112366.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,112366.0.html)
And didn't you make a similar thread on December 7?
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,111768.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,111768.0.html)
Quote from: Zarania on December 29, 2011, 10:59:39 PM
i can tell that you're one of those guys who want transition to become a goodlooking girl.
your problem is not being transgender, your problem is somewhere else, see a psychologist.
While the delivery was harsh, this may be true.
You don't transition to become a cover model for Marie Claire, rather, you transition to become yourself.
And based on your last two topic threads you started, I think you need to go through general therapy first before even thinking about transitioning because, based on the things you have written in the past, transitioning will chew you up and leave you on a curb. Transitioning doesn't cure many issues you have. It may make it worse.
I don't know....call it tough love, but I just can't write "oh honey, you'll be fine" because I would be a disservice to you if I did that.
Quote from: R&T-Place on December 29, 2011, 10:02:35 PM
The reality is that there are a lot of plastic surgery procedures out there - nose surgery, jaw surgery, chin surgery, brow surgery, cheek surgery (bone and fat), hair transplants, ect ect. Then there's laser hair removal, form-fitting clothes and wigs (clothes and hairstyles designed to put less emphasis on tall, broad, or thick women), make-up, and even glasses or big hairbows and hats to put less emphasis on a large face. With enough money (the big problem), I've always been convinced that improvement is possible on literally anyone. Hormones feminize the skin and take care of oil and acne (and slowly stop hair thickness/balding). There's a lot of changes out there.
Plastic surgery addiction is extremely high with people who feel that their life's issues can be cured away by the scalpel. It isn't that easy.
Surgery should be for those who want to look nicer and/or to fit the gender presentation better. It should never be used to "cure" severe self esteem disorders.
Quote from: Annah on December 30, 2011, 12:06:29 AM
While the delivery was harsh, this may be true.
You don't transition to become a cover model for Marie Claire, rather, you transition to become yourself.
Indeed.. I had a choice between being a dead man or a live woman.. And looks be damned, I'm living my life for me, not any one else or their expectations.. Am I ever going to be a 'classically beautiful' woman? No, probably not, but that's not all that important. And despite what some around here may say, it hasn't stopped me from attracting guys.. (or girls for that matter!)
Quote from: Annah on December 30, 2011, 12:13:53 AM
Plastic surgery addiction is extremely high with people who feel that their life's issues can be cured away by the scalpel. It isn't that easy.
Surgery should be for those who want to look nicer and/or to fit the gender presentation better. It should never be used to "cure" severe self esteem disorders.
I admit...I've had extensive plastic surgery and I want more more more!
I also want to DP with the robot guys on Daft Punk.
I think you're way harder on yourself than anyone else will ever be. Most people don't look like a model, and then never will. Yet most people still have friends that love them. So I think society produces this image that all we can about is looks, but in reality that's not true at all. I mean, sure there are some vain people who do only care about looks in friends/partners/employees. but in my experience, I don't think that's the majority. And I know I personally see right through looks. I just like people if I like their personality.
Nothing's wrong with wanting to look good according to your own standards, but I think you should be realistic, and then be satisfied. Because so what if you are "ugly" according to society's idea of "beauty"? Unless you're trying to be a model, it's really not going to affect your quality of life. Put on some nice clothes, and companies will hire you. Be a nice person, and people will like you.
And I know you want to look good for yourself too, but try to ask yourself, Do I think this feature about me is ugly because I think so? Or do I only think this feature makes me ugly because society taught me so?
When I was a younger teenager, before I had braces I had horribly crooked teeth. and I remember this one time at a church, this old lady saw me, and went up to me and was like, "Oh, your smile is so adorable! I just have this thing for crooked teeth. I think it's so beautiful!" Go figure, right? But I just thought that was awesome thing she can find beauty in unlikely places. Society obviously wasn't telling her what to think! lol.
I don't know if you like guys or girls, but whoever your soul mate is, they will be someone who loves you for who you are, and who also loves your features because they make you who you are.
Maybe just try to relax a little, and focus on thing at a time. Not, what would you like to change most about yourself. but what would you like to change about yourself that is within your reach in the near future?
I don't know what features those are. but for example, if it were your hair, you could start growing it out. And researching products to prevent hair loss, and products to help with the quality of your hair and help it to be healthy and strong. You'll feel like you're making progress, and then when you succeed in that goal, you'll feel confident and pretty, and feel better about yourself.
Just start in little places. Don't overwhelm yourself by thinking about every little thing that is not "perfect" about your appearance. And have realistic goals too, nothing is ever perfect. Even models have to get "touched up" by a computer afterwards.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 30, 2011, 12:30:59 AM
I admit...I've had extensive plastic surgery and I want more more more!
I also want to DP with the robot guys on Daft Punk.
I just had to repeat that. DP with the robot guys in Daft Punk is pretty serious business. :angel:
Quote from: Felix on December 30, 2011, 01:55:18 AM
I just had to repeat that. DP with the robot guys in Daft Punk is pretty serious business. :angel:
Double Pen.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 30, 2011, 01:58:48 AM
Double Pen.
Yes, but aren't they like, made of cardboard? Regardless, robot sex ftw.
Quote from: Felix on December 30, 2011, 02:03:12 AM
Yes, but aren't they like, made of cardboard? Regardless, robot sex ftw.
I think they are frenchmen under those suits.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 30, 2011, 12:30:59 AM
I admit...I've had extensive plastic surgery and I want more more more!
I thought you said you didn't? Like you said you never had FFS, any surgery to feminize your appearance is FFS.
Quote from: 8888 on December 30, 2011, 02:21:13 AM
I thought you said you didn't? Like you said you never had FFS, any surgery to feminize your appearance is FFS.
I broke a few commandments..I admit it.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 30, 2011, 02:04:06 AM
I think they are frenchmen under those suits.
This made me spit on my keyboard. XD
Hot, sexy frenchmen. Yep.
Quote from: Annah on December 30, 2011, 12:06:29 AM
You don't transition to become a cover model for Marie Claire, rather, you transition to become yourself.
Ugh, I see MTF transitioners in two categories:
1. Transitioning to align your appearance with your feminine character.
2. Transitioning to look like a woman.
Most will fall under both categories 1 and 2, a lot will fall under just 2, just a few will fall under 1. For example, your character may be quite masculine; your gender presentation tends more towards the stereotypical male than female, in which case if you transition you will be in category 2. On the contrary though, people who are just in category 1 may not have to transition at all; who says you need to look like a woman to act like one? Wanting to look like a woman is a rational choice.
What I'm trying to say is, there is no switch inside your brain exclusive of all other components including personality characteristics which tells you that you are a man or woman, or that you're stuck somewhere in between. That "switch" is actually the vessel in which your character lies within - your body, and it's not as ambiguous as some people make it out to be.
Say if you were a man living amongst other men, and your character tends towards male, your "switch" is set to biological male. There is no need to transition because you simply are not aware of the female sub-species. This is category 2, and if made aware you feel as though you must transition into a woman, you made a rational choice which isn't based on some pre-destined memory you were born with.
Why do I feel this way? Well, I think if the woman in the above example didn't have any attributes which made her stick out from the men around in a positive way, the chances of wanting to transition are greatly reduced. For example, she might have been really ugly, or not very intelligent etc... I belive the reason why so many people are transitioning nowadays is to do with the positive aura surrounding women (in terms of their appearance), as well as less limitations socially.
If OP wants to transition to look like a woman, or to look like a beautiful woman, that doesn't make him any less TG than many others out there. If you ignore personality, wanting look like a woman or a beautiful woman are in line with each other. It's logical to want to be a beutiful woman, given the light they're portrayed in via the media. I don't think anyone has a right to tell OP they're not true transgender and to seek psychological help elsewhere.
Sysm, I know you have said that your situation feels hopeless. It's not, but I think that you will have to look at it more realistically.
At 26 you are young enough to have a good transition, but only if you forget about male standards of what women should look like.
Real women are just that; real, not some airbrushed photo on the cover of a magazine.
I think you are going to have to ask yourself some hard questions about what you want, and what price you are willing to pay for a real world result. Perfection doesn't exist, so we have to deal with reality instead. Once we realise that life becomes much more enjoyable too.
Karen.
When I decided to transition and popped that first hormone pill in my mouth, the thought of whether I'd ultimately be passable, or beautiful at that, never crossed my mind. I just did it because I had to, no matter how I'd turn out in the end.
Quote from: JenJen2011 on December 30, 2011, 09:07:42 AM
When I decided to transition and popped that first hormone pill in my mouth, the thought of whether I'd ultimately be passable, or beautiful at that, never crossed my mind. I just did it because I had to, no matter how I'd turn out in the end.
THIS.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi845.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab11%2Fxmandeh%2Ftumblr_lfykvvwbMV1qa366t.gif&hash=3afd249ad942f2439352583444be0f0265dfa5e9)
_____________________
OP i saw your other threads and my reaction :
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi845.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab11%2Fxmandeh%2Ftumblr_lljtzjrXa81qasfhmo1_500.gif&hash=516230cd840938414351714d565aa46f6256f04d)
Quote from: JenJen2011 on December 30, 2011, 09:07:42 AM
When I decided to transition and popped that first hormone pill in my mouth, the thought of whether I'd ultimately be passable, or beautiful at that, never crossed my mind. I just did it because I had to, no matter how I'd turn out in the end.
What if I already had plenty of previews before I took hormones - I had dressed like a woman for years and led a "double life" as a gay man/hetero woman but never really happy with being gay, but I made a stunning and passable knockout as a woman.... I finally realized that I was transgender and had two choices - I could either stay a cute, but unexciting guy, or a sexy, tempting lady?
And coupled with everyone telling me, "OMG, you look so hot" or "You should have been born a woman" whenever I was en femme because I was so feminine and pretty...
Guess which route I took? :)
So.. I knew beforehand that I would be beautiful and passable before I went to that transgender clinic for my first hormones.
I transitioned to make my remaining life on this Earth better by spending the rest of my days as a woman.
You seem to think "wrong". What would you rather be? a ugly guy or ugly girl? :)
I would choose to be a ugly girl over being a good looking guy! As someone else wrote here, it is not the urge to look like a supermodel that makes you to take the decision to transition. It is the urge to be yourself that pushes you to do that.
I am not good looking either but that doesnt stop me. I want to be me and that is the most important thing.
Being beautiful is only a bonus which not all of us can get unfortunately.
I hope that things will turn for the better and wish you luck :).
Beauty comes from within. Cultivate the abilitity to see the beauty around you and you will be beautiful. You might not
be the prettiest girl in the room but you have the ability to be beautiful.
I'm not to good with words .... so I will practice cut and paste:
The Beauty Of A Woman
The beauty of a woman
isn't in the clothes she wears,
The figure that she carries,
or the way she combs her hair.
The beauty of a woman
must be seen from in her eyes;
Because that's the doorway to her heart,
the place where love resides.
The beauty of a woman
isn't in a facial mole;
But true beauty in a woman,
is reflected by her soul.
It's the caring that she cares to give,
the passion that she shows;
And the beauty of a woman
with passing years only grows.
Authorship is variously attributed to the following authors:
Maya Angelou, Ralph Fenger, Audrey Hepburn & Sam Levenson
Best wishes for a beautiful new year!
I think you're all being extremely negligent.
@Sysm29 you are at a fork in the road. One direction the road is rough the other direction leads to a cliff.
Being a man is an awful thing, in a perfect world, no one should have to be one. But if you have no choice then it's best to understand the terrible situation you are in so that you can best survive. Desire is the root of all suffering. You might suffer less if you submit to the yoke which was placed upon you and all men by nature. As I understand it, there are compensations to being a man. Not many and not often but I believe they do exist.
You can either man up and take the rough road or you can drive straight to disaster.
Just remember, the universe was not set up for our pleasure. :)
Quote from: fionabell on December 30, 2011, 04:19:01 PM
Being a man is an awful thing, in a perfect world, no one should have to be one.
That's very misandry of you. I'm sure the FTMs absolutely loved that comment and feel very welcomed.
I think we can give the OP advice without putting down the entire male gender.
You're a transgender woman... Even me and my performer friends aren't up to society's "classical standards"... I don't have a tiny waist or anything.
In spite of how lunatic this thread was, just had to bump this one and give this a +1 in light of the recent debate about appearances being a relevant factor in deciding to transition.
At least the OP is honest that she prefers to have good looks and that would be the reason she would transition.
+1
Quote from: Arch on December 29, 2011, 10:09:39 PM
I used to be with a guy that most people considered quite homely. He was skinny as a rail, wore glasses, and had a big nose and a funny-looking mouth. I thought he was the cutest thing on the planet.
Well, this pretty much describes me to a T.
I understand the Op's frustration with being unattractive and hoping that transitioning will give you a new lease on life so to speak.
In my humble opinion, I would stick to whatever feels right to you on the inside. If the choice is being an unattractive female or an unattractive male, what do you honestly have to lose? At least that was my reasoning in deciding to transition.
And frankly, there are quite a few homely people out there in the world. I mean, FFS, just drive to your local fast food joint and take a scope of the competition. My hope is that one day I'll pass well enough to meet a similarly attractive partner and settle down. What else can I really hope for?
Quote from: Guantanamera on January 02, 2012, 03:33:04 AM
Well, this pretty much describes me to a T.
I understand the Op's frustration with being unattractive and hoping that transitioning will give you a new lease on life so to speak.
In my humble opinion, I would stick to whatever feels right to you on the inside. If the choice is being an unattractive female or an unattractive male, what do you honestly have to lose? At least that was my reasoning in deciding to transition.
And frankly, there are quite a few homely people out there in the world. I mean, FFS, just drive to your local fast food joint and take a scope of the competition. My hope is that one day I'll pass well enough to meet a similarly attractive partner and settle down. What else can I really hope for?
That.
It is clear that I am not the only one who had "appearances" as one of the deciding factors.
Quote from: 88881. Transitioning to align your appearance with your feminine character.
2. Transitioning to look like a woman.
I think a better use of words could be applied here. I don't think it's about an inner "feminine character" - many cis men can have a feminine character which is a form of male femininity. I would say it is more accurate that transitioning is often to align appearance with one's sense of being FEMALE, independent of whether one's character is feminine or not.
I would say appearance was a factor in my transition - I remember looking at my features and imagining the potential I had. But I think my desire to transition was so much more deep rooted that I would have transitioned regardless, simply because living life as a male was so unbearable that anything, even living life as someone who would always be read as 'trans' would be the lesser of two evils.
Quote from: Assoluta on January 02, 2012, 01:06:02 PM
I think a better use of words could be applied here. I don't think it's about an inner "feminine character" - many cis men can have a feminine character which is a form of male femininity. I would say it is more accurate that transitioning is often to align appearance with one's sense of being FEMALE, independent of whether one's character is feminine or not.
I would say appearance was a factor in my transition - I remember looking at my features and imagining the potential I had. But I think my desire to transition was so much more deep rooted that I would have transitioned regardless, simply because living life as a male was so unbearable that anything, even living life as someone who would always be read as 'trans' would be the lesser of two evils.
thank you! I butted heads with some people last night just because I mentioned looks was ONE of the factors in my decision to transition and got lambasted for that.
Quote from: sysm29 on December 29, 2011, 09:31:46 PM
I would sell my soul to the Devil to be a beautiful woman.
Be careful what you wish for.
／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼
Quote from: Maya Zimmerman on January 02, 2012, 04:48:12 PM
Be careful what you wish for.
／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼
You mean be careful to get it in writing right?
I would say that I would give both my left and right nuts to be a beautiful woman, but I don't think the devil would fall for it.
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 04:18:19 PM
thank you! I butted heads with some people last night just because I mentioned looks was ONE of the factors in my decision to transition and got lambasted for that.
Maybe because you ignited their competitve instinct from blowing your own trumpet? ;)
One thing I've worked out from gg's is that it's extremely taboo to mention that you are good looking. I'm pretty socially clueless, but I think i'm on the money with this one.
Quote from: Felix on December 29, 2011, 10:11:49 PM
What's wrong with being an ugly woman?
This. Remember a while back my hubby went through the "do I pass thread" and he thought everyone was a natural born woman. He did think some looked old and some looked heavier and not so attractive, but he generally thought everyone was a woman.
Not all women are knock outs. I use whoopie goldberg as an example because when I think of whoopie I don't even think about her being 'pretty" or "hot" she's just a completely different kind of energy. I wouldn't want to be ME and look like Whoopie, but I wouldn't mind "being Whoopie" if you know what I mean.
So find your energy and deal with it. We all have things about ourselves that we think are not good enough. If you want to stay down there in the dumps you can do it.
But you can also create a fantastically interesting woman that emanates her beauty as who she is, not just what she looks like. Of course if you want to be a fake plastic sort of looking woman you can also do that too, but you'll need to save a bunch of money and get work done.
Find your priority and follow it.
Quote from: mixie on January 02, 2012, 06:56:21 PM
This. Remember a while back my hubby went through the "do I pass thread" and he thought everyone was a natural born woman. He did think some looked old and some looked heavier and not so attractive, but he generally thought everyone was a woman.
Not all women are knock outs. I use whoopie goldberg as an example because when I think of whoopie I don't even think about her being 'pretty" or "hot" she's just a completely different kind of energy. I wouldn't want to be ME and look like Whoopie, but I wouldn't mind "being Whoopie" if you know what I mean.
So find your energy and deal with it. We all have things about ourselves that we think are not good enough. If you want to stay down there in the dumps you can do it.
But you can also create a fantastically interesting woman that emanates her beauty as who she is, not just what she looks like. Of course if you want to be a fake plastic sort of looking woman you can also do that too, but you'll need to save a bunch of money and get work done.
Find your priority and follow it.
Some very good points. I once met a trans woman who was rather on the large side, looked quite masculine and spoke with a deep voice, far from looking like a conventionally attractive woman. However, she was vivacious, intelligent, engaging and radiant, and for this reason she was an interesting woman of character, and an attractive personality - somebody who you enjoyed being with. I think she was one of my best examples of somebody not passing but still ultimately being happy with life.
Oh, oh, oh, can I merge this with my fork scenario thread? Another fork scenario here!
You don't really know unless you try. Believe me i've seen some amazing transformations of some MTF that you'd think wouldn't have a chance in hell but they turned out passable. Taking hormones is the first step, no it isn't gonna turn you into a super model but hormones do wonders if taken properly, if you want it bad enough and put fourth the effort you'd be really surprised at what you can do.
Don't give in so easily! :P
Quote from: Asha on January 02, 2012, 11:41:08 PM
You don't really know unless you try. Believe me i've seen some amazing transformations of some MTF that you'd think wouldn't have a chance in hell but they turned out passable. Taking hormones is the first step, no it isn't gonna turn you into a super model but hormones do wonders if taken properly, if you want it bad enough and put fourth the effort you'd be really surprised at what you can do.
Don't give in so easily! :P
Wrong - the first physical step (aside from attitude and mental realigment) is learning how to present as female properly as in clothes, make up, hair, and behavior. Hormones can't save you if you still dress and act like a man
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 11:57:18 PM
Wrong - the first physical step (aside from attitude and mental realigment) is learning how to present as female properly as in clothes, make up, hair, and behavior. Hormones can't save you if you still dress and act like a man
How exactly do "women" present? Since you speak for all of them apparently? >:-)
Wrong, that's what is important to YOU. IMO you look like a beautiful plastic. But there are quite a few plain janes on here that I would think were totally cisgender without any make up and without over doing it. Even though it is absolutely fantastic to look gorgeous, especially if you want to and love to be fabulous, that's what makes a barbie doll, not a woman.
IMO being a woman comes from within, otherwise you wouldn't be transitioning in the first place. If what makes you a woman is what you look like on the outside then why in the world is this website even here?
Being a woman is knowing who you are and embracing it. So if you want to wear tons of make up and look done up and gorgeous then more power to you.
But I know plenty of drop dead gorgeous women who don't need to wear any makeup at all.
Like this one
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.staticflickr.com%2F94%2F242646145_97b6856b44_z.jpg&hash=1e360496ae388abd5485e18076bb584bc7dfedfc)
or this one
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fus.123rf.com%2F400wm%2F400%2F400%2Fkho%2Fkho1102%2Fkho110200042%2F8936321-woman-young-beautiful-no-make-up-touching-face-with-her-hand-isolated-on-white-background.jpg&hash=1dfda9e09fa54126c44c04005b62380fb828e744)
Quote from: mixie on January 03, 2012, 12:03:36 AM
How exactly do "women" present? Since you speak for all of them apparently? >:-)
Wrong, that's what is important to YOU. IMO you look like a beautiful plastic. But there are quite a few plain janes on here that I would think were totally cisgender without any make up and without over doing it. Even though it is absolutely fantastic to look gorgeous, especially if you want to and love to be fabulous, that's what makes a barbie doll, not a woman.
IMO being a woman comes from within, otherwise you wouldn't be transitioning in the first place. If what makes you a woman is what you look like on the outside then why in the world is this website even here?
Being a woman is knowing who you are and embracing it. So if you want to wear tons of make up and look done up and gorgeous then more power to you.
But I know plenty of drop dead gorgeous women who don't need to wear any makeup at all.
lol, obviously you missed the thread where I engaged in a fierce debate with few posters about appearances being a signficiant, if not deciding, factor in transition for some people.
I am too exhausted to go into that again so hopefully you can read it for yourself?
Mahsa also is an ardent advocate of makeup being the magic that makes us pass better.
and when you say a "beautiful plastic", were you referring to me or to the OP? Because i have not had any FFS or plastic done at all on my face, heh
I think she was referring to the "plastics" in the movie mean girls. They were the beautiful done-up girls.
Quote from: mixie on January 03, 2012, 12:03:36 AM
How exactly do "women" present? Since you speak for all of them apparently? >:-)
Wrong, that's what is important to YOU. IMO you look like a beautiful plastic. But there are quite a few plain janes on here that I would think were totally cisgender without any make up and without over doing it. Even though it is absolutely fantastic to look gorgeous, especially if you want to and love to be fabulous, that's what makes a barbie doll, not a woman.
IMO being a woman comes from within, otherwise you wouldn't be transitioning in the first place. If what makes you a woman is what you look like on the outside then why in the world is this website even here?
Being a woman is knowing who you are and embracing it. So if you want to wear tons of make up and look done up and gorgeous then more power to you.
But I know plenty of drop dead gorgeous women who don't need to wear any makeup at all.
Like this one
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.staticflickr.com%2F94%2F242646145_97b6856b44_z.jpg&hash=1e360496ae388abd5485e18076bb584bc7dfedfc)
or this one
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fus.123rf.com%2F400wm%2F400%2F400%2Fkho%2Fkho1102%2Fkho110200042%2F8936321-woman-young-beautiful-no-make-up-touching-face-with-her-hand-isolated-on-white-background.jpg&hash=1dfda9e09fa54126c44c04005b62380fb828e744)
+ 1 mixie
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 03, 2012, 12:14:58 AM
Mahsa also is an ardent advocate of makeup being the magic that makes us pass better.
and when you say a "beautiful plastic", were you referring to me or to the OP? Because i have not had any FFS or plastic done at all on my face, heh
edit-personal attacks - Forum admin
Quote from: Melody Maia on January 03, 2012, 12:20:29 AM
I think she was referring to the "plastics" in the movie mean girls. They were the beautiful done-up girls.
Oh yes I was, Ms. Dazzler, I personally think you look gorgeous, but one of the reasons I think you look gorgeous is that you are happy with the way you look. It's not because of the make up etc. You enjoy getting dolled up and being fabulous.
Personally though when women wear lots of make up (you don't seem to be in the pix) they come across like the Jersey Shore girls. Now here in Brooklyn we definitely have those kinds of women but among women I hang out with they are usually considered shallow and sort of "tacky" when they dress up like that.
Lots and lots of women enjoy looking this way and it looks amazing and exciting and almost like a celebrity. So I'm not knocking the look, I'm just saying that you seem to think this is required of women to "pass."
If I saw you or Melody and someone asked me to guess who was trans I would say you in about three seconds flat. Also if you asked me who I would prefer to look like I would say Melody in about two seconds flat. Not that you don't both look beautiful, but Melody sort of reflects more about who I identify with as a woman.
So it just seems a bit off to go to someone you don't really know and say "This is what you need to do to be a woman, fix your hair, put on make up etc etc>"
I watch 30 Rock and Jenna and Liz Lemon are a really good example of what the difference is like. No one looks at Liz Lemon and says she's a man because she isn't done up, they just realize it's not much of a priority to her.
[quote a >:-)uthor=Guantanamera link=topic=113080.msg863093#msg863093 date=1325547888]
You mean be careful to get it in writing right?
I would say that I would give both my left and right nuts to be a beautiful woman, but I don't think the devil would fall for it.
[/quote]
Quote from: sysm29 on December 29, 2011, 09:31:46 PM
I would sell my soul to the Devil to be a beautiful woman.
...I'll send over the application asap >:-)
We've seen photos of the OP. He's a good looking guy and would make a hot woman.
Quote from: Asha on January 03, 2012, 12:27:13 AM
I'm sorry Dazzler but for being advocates of makeup and fashion both you and Mahsa don't really look that good at all.
You both look more like Drag queens with way to much makeup on then women IMHO.
Sorry had to be said. LOL
I wouldn't say Mahsa looks like a drag queen ???
Actually, I've decided to let the moderators handle this post.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 03, 2012, 12:59:30 AM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb407%2FGlossygrrlxoxo%2FP11-09-11_18_421.jpg&hash=3f79e406815db060536a299cd3b7ea4ab91b241f)
And you look like a nerd in drag. Sorry had to be said.
Are you insane? She looks like a young Juliet Binoche! No way would I ever think that was not a woman.
Would you and Ms Dazzler please stop using the smite system to bully people. I mean we can read the reputation system. It's kinda dumb to do that.
And I don't think Mahsa looks like a drag queen either, I think she looks amazing.
Quote from: mixie on January 03, 2012, 12:34:17 AM
Oh yes I was, Ms. Dazzler, I personally think you look gorgeous, but one of the reasons I think you look gorgeous is that you are happy with the way you look. It's not because of the make up etc. You enjoy getting dolled up and being fabulous.
Personally though when women wear lots of make up (you don't seem to be in the pix) they come across like the Jersey Shore girls. Now here in Brooklyn we definitely have those kinds of women but among women I hang out with they are usually considered shallow and sort of "tacky" when they dress up like that.
Lots and lots of women enjoy looking this way and it looks amazing and exciting and almost like a celebrity. So I'm not knocking the look, I'm just saying that you seem to think this is required of women to "pass."
If I saw you or Melody and someone asked me to guess who was trans I would say you in about three seconds flat. Also if you asked me who I would prefer to look like I would say Melody in about two seconds flat. Not that you don't both look beautiful, but Melody sort of reflects more about who I identify with as a woman.
So it just seems a bit off to go to someone you don't really know and say "This is what you need to do to be a woman, fix your hair, put on make up etc etc>"
I watch 30 Rock and Jenna and Liz Lemon are a really good example of what the difference is like. No one looks at Liz Lemon and says she's a man because she isn't done up, they just realize it's not much of a priority to her.
I realize you are just being diplomatic about your opinion about makeup. I get it. :)
I don't always wear makeup as you can see if you went to "the before and after" thread and viewed my everyday pic video. I can alternate between no makeup or wear makeup - I just love wearing makeup.
Some women do NEED makeup to pass and they need to acknowledge it instead of fighting it.
Quote from: mixie on January 03, 2012, 01:09:54 AM
Would you and Ms Dazzler please stop using the smite system to bully people. I mean we can read the reputation system. It's kinda dumb to do that.
Bullying? Oh please - i hardly smite people, i m far from being one! i am not not going to justify why she deserved the two smites. It is there for a reason and please don't tell me who I can smite for what.
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 03, 2012, 01:27:02 AM
I realize you are just being diplomatic about your opinion about makeup. I get it. :)
I don't always wear makeup as you can see if you went to "the before and after" thread and viewed my everyday pic video. I can alternate between no makeup or wear makeup - I just love wearing makeup.
Some women do NEED makeup to pass and they need to acknowledge it instead of fighting it.
Well I disagree. If you said that some women NEED makeup for YOU to think that they pass, I would agree. But I don't think any woman needs "make up" to be who she is. Passing is nice. But passing doesn't make you a woman.
Quote from: mixie on January 03, 2012, 01:32:33 AM
Well I disagree. If you said that some women NEED makeup for YOU to think that they pass, I would agree. But I don't think any woman needs "make up" to be who she is. Passing is nice. But passing doesn't make you a woman.
ok let s agree to disagree - it is obvious you have your opinions and mine about makeup. Neither one is right or wrong. Let's leave at it. :)
Kia Ora Sysm,
::) Remember this fairy tale : the ugly duckling (el patito feo) - disney (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THmHFHBWQZc#)
::) You might not end up becoming a beautiful swan, perhaps just a run of the mill 'woman' with no frills attached...But you WILL be your TRUE self...
::) When we transition we become the female/male version of our former male/female selves ! Nothing more nothing less...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
::)* Sorry Ms Daz,my apologies again, no captions with this video clip, but I'm sure you know the story off by heart anyway...*
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: sysm29 on December 29, 2011, 09:31:46 PM
I'm not even going to bother putting pictures up, trust me. I'm hideous...
Sysm.. There's a thing in psychology called "forced perception". It essentially means that although our subconscious can see/recall/record everything, unfortunately our consciousness is limited in perception. eg.
Although I can hear the birds, the wind outside, the cars driving by... I only "hear" the TV.Our minds have a like-attracts-like mentality.
Your depressive/ negative thingking is only allowing you to see the bad in your situation. With a little bit of gratitude to will you do have, you have see the beauty within yourself.
Trust me. There is beauty within yourself.
I sincerely hope that this post finds you in a better head space, and that you seek the help you need.
Love
Jenny
OXOXOXOX