I was considering turning into a woman when I discovered that the reasons why I wanted to become a woman were:
Long hair
Be able to wear dresses
Be approved as cute (by parents)
Be goodlooking
Wear makeup
Be able to express in a more feminine fashion (hugging, remarks, etc)
I learned early on (3 yrs) that only women could be really cute and goodlooking. I unconsciously identified as a woman because the fear of being ridiculed was greater than the desire to express in womanly terms.
When ridicule stopped being an obstacle, I came to understand that I was actually identifying as a woman. The desire to change was really really high.
However, it also occurred to me that maybe I wanted to change was because I was not able to express this way as a man. Think about it:
Some men are cute, but girls run the cute business.
You can never be smoking hot in the same way a woman can be.
Woman can be more expressive than men. The only way a guy can be expressive is when they are gay and it is sometimes over the top (and I really didn't fancy being gay).
I wondered that if I was able to heal the REJECTION I felt for not being cute when I was a child, if I was able to heal the HURT of not being able to dress or express the way I wanted, if I would still want to be a man.
So I nominated all the hurts I felt back then (as if I was a 3 yr old) until there was little else to be said, and suddenly it was as if the whole illusion came crashing down. It was for the first time in 39 years that I actually enjoyed being a guy. I realized that the desire to turn into a woman was really my solution to not feeling hurt as a man. Another interesting thing was that I made this decision to be a girl when I was very young. (I wonder that when people say: "I was born this way", or "in the wrong body", it is actually not acknowledging the decision capacity of a 2 or a 3 year old).
So now, my question is:
Could it be possible that you want to change because you cannot do these things as a male? or, Would you want to change because you have been unable to heal the hurts and rejections of the past?
Thanks,
:)
Neither. I realize I'm going the other way but the sentiment is the same. I need to feel normal, not weirded out every morning and off all the time. This has nothing to do with how I'm taken by others or the clothes I wish to wear.
Just a note. I don't think there is a right or wrong reason to transition. Just your reason. And you get to live with the results, whatever they are.
For me?
My hair is in an short, androgynous cut that just barely clears the bottom of my ears.
I've never worn a dress in my life, and have little interest in starting to now.
I am very cute. ;D But then I was cute before I transitioned.
Same with the being attractive thingy.
I don't often wear makeup.
While I'm totally into hugs, I don't feel I express myself in a particularly feminine fashion. I just express myself.
And I don't feel like my capacity for self-expression was suppressed until I hit puberty and the testosterone began poisoning my body and mind. I was a tomboy when I was little. That people thought I was a boy didn't seem to matter much until my body went all wrong.
Transitioning for me has always been about fixing my body, not playing a role. I'm an andro dyke these days. If I was doing this cause I wanted to express how feminine I am, obviously I'm doing it wrong. ;)
But, anyway, I'm glad to hear you resolved your gender issues. Best wishes,
Sarah
I don't really understand your thought process...
"I want to transition because I can't express myself as a male" --> realizing that suddenly means you're happy with not being able to express yourself?
Also, people think every 3 year old is cute, boy or girl ::)
i dont think what boy or man are cute no matter age..but well, i know that i have a problem whit that xD ...someday must work it whit a therapist
Well, i feel in the same way in some points...being a "cute man" for some reason feel...wrong for me...and usually well...nobody act and react to you as if you was a "cute thing" ... for all you are just a man...if you are a man....
I always got frustrated by that..totally tired of be "strong and tough"
But in some way i have a reall dislike for my male body...i found it so disgusting...
So in my case is a mix of things i thoug...
But dont listen to much to me... i am yet in a "insight time" ...but slowly close to the HTR ...and planning my WERQK
I think being transgendered isn't mostly about feeling unable to express myself in my female body. I think that's part of it, but most of it is the physical...i really hate what I've got and moving towards the other side is attempt to feel more comfortable in my body.
The issue involves expression because I feel like I can't express myself fully because of how I see my body. I need to be more masculine.
Being "transgendered" is different for everyone, as you read these forums you'll discover people that transition for so many different reason and so many different ways they found out they could transition and so many different ways they went about transitioning.
For me I've always felt like a girl, it wasn't really a question of being able to freely express myself because I know if there was no social stigmas against gender presentation regardless of biological sex I'd still feel uncomfortable in a male body or if I was born on a desert island I'd know that something was off.
For me, even when I lived as a boy, I didn't have any problem with people around me for being emotional, expressing feelings openly, crying, or liking cute things (hey, I even had guy friends who liked Hello Kitty like me). So I didn't need to be a girl to do any of that. (And I like guys who don't shy away from expressing themselves!)
As for long hair and make-up, I certainly did not want either while still living as a boy, because that would have just looked so ugly on me.
Quote from: Orw on January 06, 2012, 01:06:40 AM
Be able to express in a more feminine fashion (hugging, remarks, etc)
This is a really big thing for me. I am only happy when I'm allowed to be really effeminate. I have tried to be macho and masculine most of my life, all the while being really jealous of woman and openly effeminate guys. Lately though I'm being more outwardly feminine, and it feels wonderful. :)
Quote from: pretty on January 06, 2012, 01:46:13 AM
I don't really understand your thought process...
"I want to transition because I can't express myself as a male" --> realizing that suddenly means you're happy with not being able to express yourself?
Also, people think every 3 year old is cute, boy or girl ::)
Basically, he says that someone that want to change sex, sometimes may have those urges because the person have not been aware of any other type of outlet for those inner feelings.
For instance, in the more earlier days of sex changes, many people transitioned although they were not "true transsexuals" at all, but perhaps were intense ->-bleeped-<-s, autosexual fetishists or just people that had very strong female or male crossgender expressions and were- in the days- not aware of any other way or option to express those things than to change sex into a Sex "fitting" for those expressions.
There are, actually, still people even today that changes sex because they are simply not aware of any other option, and hence later on, may sometimes regret themselves.
Those cases aside, however and to answer the thread starters question, I would say that true transsexualism- that is, people truly being born with either the wrong body or the wrong genitals- is indeed a very existing reality, not a social construct, and a reality that is also shown to have biological causes.
Born transsexuals, also called HBS-transsexuals, are simply people literally born with the "wrong" anatomy.
So, there are different reasons for why people transition and not only a single reason for every transitioner.
And, just as the poster Sarah7 said above in the thread said, there are really no right or wrong reason to transition, as even people that have transitioned because of the "wrong" reasons", have turned out happy, while some other people that have transitioned according to every rule in the book and because of all the "right" reasons, have regretted themselves later on.
Obviously, you found the solution that was the right one for you. :)
Quote from: Emi on January 06, 2012, 01:55:08 AM
i dont think what boy or man are cute no matter age..but well, i know that i have a problem whit that xD ...someday must work it whit a therapist
Well, i feel in the same way in some points...being a "cute man" for some reason feel...wrong for me...and usually well...nobody act and react to you as if you was a "cute thing" ... for all you are just a man...if you are a man....
I always got frustrated by that..totally tired of be "strong and tough"
But in some way i have a reall dislike for my male body...i found it so disgusting...
So in my case is a mix of things i thoug...
But dont listen to much to me... i am yet in a "insight time" ...but slowly close to the HTR ...and planning my WERQK
i m selfish but i wish you would stay a man since you re so cute! :) I am not a translesbian :(
But I digress - go do whatever makes you happy, darling!
A lot of the transsexuals I've met. I feel being trans for them is escapism. I mean look at how many geeks are transsexuals. No one finds that at all weird? I mean I wish that was what people thought of when they heard the word '->-bleeped-<-" as opposed to thinking drag race + hormones.
Gay men who become tgirls are the minority and I am not doing this for "more sex" or anything.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 01:56:05 PM
A lot of the transsexuals I've met. I feel being trans for them is escapism. I mean look at how many geeks are transsexuals. No one finds that at all weird? I mean I wish that was what people thought of when they heard the word '->-bleeped-<-" as opposed to thinking drag race + hormones.
Gay men who become tgirls are the minority and I am not doing this for "more sex" or anything.
While there does seem to be a high rate of "geeks" who are trans, I wouldn't agree that it's the cause and rather a product of how they dealt with trans feelings whilst growing up by removing themselves from society by partaking in the least social endearing and masculine subjects that are still male dominated.
Just like some trans girls try to hypermasculinise themselves in an attempt to hide their feelings from themselves and others around them. And just like a lot of the geek trans girls who retain their interests after transition a lot of people that tried to hypermasculinise end up keeping their interests.
But who knows.
Quote from: Nurse With Wound on January 06, 2012, 02:05:13 PM
While there does seem to be a high rate of "geeks" who are trans, I wouldn't agree that it's the cause and rather a product of how they dealt with trans feelings whilst growing up by removing themselves from society by partaking in the least social endearing and masculine subjects that are still male dominated.
Just like some trans girls try to hypermasculinise themselves in an attempt to hide their feelings from themselves and others around them. And just like a lot of the geek trans girls who retain their interests after transition a lot of people that tried to hypermasculinise end up keeping their interests.
But who knows.
I've talked to several of the "geek" transitioners and it seems to be more like, "If I become a girl all my problems will go away" and thats never the case. This isn't pretend, it's very much a reality. I've succeeded in my transition because I am grounded in reality over it... Hence why I will always keep my "gay boy" distinction.
I mean honestly...think how we appear to the outside world. If someone clocks us, we argue with them about how we're female inside. There's some issues that aren't being addressed...
In my first explorations into my gender identity, I thought I was a cross-dresser and felt it was indeed about expression.
As I explored further, I began to feel that I was androgyne/non-binary gender variant. Expression was still somewhat important at this stage for me. But, I was beginning to realize that it was more than that.
Then, I am to the conclusion that I am MTF. Expression at this point is just me showing the real me. Looking back over my life, I can see that transition is the right thing for me.
That said, being able to express myself in a feminine presentation on a daily basis is a huge relief to me. I feel like I found myself and I'm bringing her out into the world.
To Mahsa's point, transition will not solve all my problems. But, it has brought an end to 30 years of depression. Transition has also caused problems for me, too. If I'm clocked I indicate that I am trans. Will I ever be "female on the inside?" Partially. Eventually my outie will be turned into an innie. But, I'll never have two X chromosones, a uterus or ovaries. Do I feel that I'm a woman internally? Yes. I don't understand the part about that being an issue that needs to be addressed, unless you're refering to the work that I do with my therapist during my RLE as I work towards SRS.
What I believe you're suggesting is, if society didn't have gender roles would we even be identifying as transgender?
Since we would have that space to express ourselves that gender roles barricade us from.
I think about this alot.
I think maybe. Well, that is definitely hypothetical, because gender roles are a social reality
but gender is really just an idea beyond the biological differences that are applied to gender from our sex, socially anyway.
I just think our gender though means more then that, it's more complicated to where i'm not sure we will be able
to fully understand it ourselves.
I don't think its just about expression because many of us don't even identify with feminine performances.
Such as, butch trans women, or tom boy trans women. I think being able to identify as a woman and feeling like a woman
are two things that can be quite vital for someones identity to not feel like a man, which is not always necessarily social, but
also biological! like hormones. I think that hormones isn't just about how we want people to perceive us
but about how we want to feel and perceive our own bodies as well.
So you make a vital point we should all be aware of while identifying, i just don't think that my gender is dependent on performance.
My gender identity is less, "I am this inside" and more glorified drag queen. But what works for me, doesn't work for someone else.
I can;t imagine how painful it would be to have genital dsyphoria or anything.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 02:53:39 PM
My gender identity is less, "I am this inside" and more glorified drag queen. But what works for me, doesn't work for someone else.
I can;t imagine how painful it would be to have genital dsyphoria or anything.
strangely, i had dysphoria about my genitals but as i started transitioning it actually went away. Now i'm just hoping not much happens to my genitals when i start hormones. ;D
What if the lack of expression is sometimes just part of the problem of being transgender?
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 01:56:05 PM
I mean look at how many geeks are transsexuals. No one finds that at all weird?
Not really, don't you collect toys as a hobby and go to toy and comic cons? That isn't nerdy? :laugh:
QuoteGay men who become tgirls are the minority
Not really, just because there are more lez transwomen here doesn't mean that's true in the trans community as a whole.
QuoteI am not doing this for "more sex" or anything
Thanks for pointing that out for the 12 time....
Quote from: Asha on January 06, 2012, 04:11:59 PM
Not really, don't you collect toys as a hobby and go to toy and comic cons? That isn't nerdy? :laugh:
No and no. Either way, the interests never dominated my life...
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 01:56:05 PM
A lot of the transsexuals I've met. I feel being trans for them is escapism. I mean look at how many geeks are transsexuals. No one finds that at all weird?
Your cause and effect are a bit backwards. They were geeks due to escapism. In transition they're rejoining the world as a real human being.
Quote from: Inanna on January 16, 1970, 02:18:08 AMIn being trans they're rejoining the world.
The world of Warcraft!!!!
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 04:19:01 PM
The world of Warcraft!!!!
/* OFF TOPIC */
My nephew met his fiancee through World of Warcraft Online.
/* END OFF TOPIC */
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 04:14:16 PM
No and no. Either way, the interests never dominated my life...
Lies! :)
Anyway no I don't think it's a lack of expression at all. That sounds like some theory from from the 50's. Lol
TAG: 20 Questions!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGEiCfa-H4Y&feature=related#)
While self-expression (or obstacles thereto) undoubtedly figures into my situation, I see it more as a consequence than a cause. Primarily, I identify as female because I cannot relate to male social conventions, feel more calm and relaxed when I think of myself as female, have to suppress feelings of panic when using a group shower in a men's locker room unless I am alone, and feel uncomfortable with seeing a male body in the mirror every day. I don't know if I would ever want to bear a child or not, but I do wish the choice had not be made for me before my birth.
On the subject of transgender geeks, I have found that geek culture is generally rather open-minded regarding matters of self expression and self identity. This, no-doubt, provides closeted transpeople a much more friendly environment in which to come out. Just look at all the gender bending that occurs in science-fiction, fantasy, and anime/manga books, videos, and games. It is not unusual to find cisgender and transgender crossplayers (cross-gender cosplay) at conventions for these genres, especially anime/manga.
As to World of Warcraft and the like, this is one geek (and a computer geek at that) who finds computer games mind-numbingly boring. I'd much rather play "pen and paper" RPGs, Scrabble, Eurorails, Fluxx, Poker, or even Dominoes than a computer game. I don't see anything wrong with computer games, I just don't get any enjoyment from them.
being able to express helps but it is far from being all I need.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 01:56:05 PM
I feel being trans for them is escapism. I mean look at how many geeks are transsexuals. No one finds that at all weird? I mean I wish that was what people thought of when they heard the word '->-bleeped-<-" as opposed to thinking drag race + hormones.
I am surprised you would say that someone who doesn't fit your profile of what is cool then that genre of people must be escaping or a fake transgender? Half of your facebook profile pics are of "Transformers" and "GI Joe" and you hugging an R2 Unit from "Star Wars" so your convictions seem to be double standard. I've never been to a Star Wars/Comic Con\anime convention. You've been to a few (or similiar)....to some that would constitute as "geeky"
For someone (you) who has been trying to explain to others you are a girl even tho you also sometimes identify as something that others find hard to accept, you sure are quick to point out and judge others because they are "geeky."
Being a geek doesn't disqualify someone's feelings of their gender. Only they themselves know if they are true to themselves or not.
Be careful what you are saying because your comment is hard to tell the difference between that of an ->-bleeped-<-r than tho mentality where you decide who is and who is not a real girl
Quote from: Annah on January 07, 2012, 12:51:08 AM
I am surprised you would say that someone who doesn't fit your profile of what is cool then that genre of people must be escaping or a fake transgender? Half of your facebook profile pics are of "Transformers" and "GI Joe" and you hugging an R2 Unit from "Star Wars" so your convictions seem to be double standard. I've never been to a Star Wars/Comic Con\anime convention. You've been to a few (or similiar)....to some that would constitute as "geeky"
I went to that convention to take pics with the freaks.
I have a thing for futuristic helmets and my boyfriend is a geek.
Quote from: Dana_H on January 07, 2012, 12:41:30 AM
On the subject of transgender geeks, I have found that geek culture is generally rather open-minded regarding matters of self expression and self identity. This, no-doubt, provides closeted transpeople a much more friendly environment in which to come out. Just look at all the gender bending that occurs in science-fiction, fantasy, and anime/manga books, videos, and games. It is not unusual to find cisgender and transgender crossplayers (cross-gender cosplay) at conventions for these genres, especially anime/manga.
This seems to be the truth, from what I've seen. The geek subculture is sort of like the Island of Misfit Toys, in a good way. It's a collection of all sorts of people, many of whom don't feel they fit into popular culture. It's also very much creativity-centric; whatever you create is perfectly fine. That's a healthy environment for transgender kids, since they already feel awkward and feel like their body doesn't match their mind.
Just saying being transgendered is escapism is missing a crucial element, i.e. the cause for escapism. People who are happy with their lives don't need escapism. However, people who feel like they aren't quite whole want to feel whole. So they fill it with whatever escapism they like (books, games, movies, etc.) but it doesn't quite do the job. However,once they discover that they can actually be whole (transitioning), then they start the process rolling and it feels like the most natural thing in the world. For some people being transgendered probably is escapism, but it likely doesn't contribute much to the overall picture. In many ways cross-dressing and drag are escapism, but I wouldn't just say that any large number of drag queens/kings and crossdressers only do it to escape. I knew people who did it to attack cultural norms. I know someone else who does it because it's fun for her.
Just saying "a bunch of transgendered people are geeks" and doing a "wink, wink" is nonsense. It is much more likely due to the open-minded attitude in geek culture. I'm a trans geek, and I find no escapism in physically becoming a girl. I'm becoming fully myself, so there really is no "escape." That being said, I don't speak for all trans people. Some do it for escapism, but I just don't see the trans/geek link the way Mahsa does.
I have geeky interests.
For me, the escapism was before transition. Now that I'm transitioning and am living my true self (yes, I know, there it is again), my need for escapism has been greatly diminished. These days, it's thoughts of the divorce that drive my desire for escapism.
For me, my ability to express myself as a female vs male doesn't change by much. I am who I am. I do like to wear my hair long and dress in a feminine way. This has only become more prevailing for me as time goes on. As a kid it was fun to raid mommy's closet to wear her silky nlons and other things. But I have found that this is my time to enjoy myself. I still have to get over myself to accomplish my transition. But transitioning hasn't made a big change of me on the inside. It is me.
I am not transitioning so others can accept me.
I'm transitioning so I can accept myself.
It'd be nice if other people accept me on the way, sure, but that's not what keeps me happy at the end of the day.
So, no, this isn't a problem of expression - I've always expressed myself just fine, but I was born with a body that gave me a lot of limitations when it came to this type of expression.
My personal reason for transitioning was simply as it made sense for my core identity, not necessarily to express myself in a more feminine way, although that certainly was a PART of transition, and it very much made me happier. It just wasn't the crux of the matter. However, when one becomes happier with more feminine expression, it can elicit questioning thoughts such as "is it just a case of wanting to express my feminine side?". There is a fine line between wanting to look female and be female and only the person themselves can truly make that distinction for their own lives.
There are some people who transition just because they want to look female but still identify as 'trans' or 'male' in some way. Within the narrow definition of what it means to be a 'true transsexual', it may mean that they are 'less trans' than the typical case, but in the end, who cares? The reasons are irrelevant to anyone else but the person transitioning. I don't say this as part of my personal experience, as I probably fit the "classic transsexual" model and transitioning with full SRS, etc. Judging people as 'less' trans or whatever is irrelevant as why should people adhere to any kind of pathologic model anyway?
QuoteBut transitioning hasn't made a big change of me on the inside. It is me.
Interesting - I know a fair few trans people who feel that they don't go through a big intrapersonal change, it's more the external and interpersonal factors that change. However, for me, I feel like I am in a hugely different psychological place than pre-transition. When I started, I thought it would simply be an external change, and that I wouldn't become a different person, but to some extent I did - while my personality, memories and interests remained largely the same, my sense of self and psychological sense of being and perception changed dramatically, and that was the most painful and simultaneously liberating part of transition.