what it is like to feel female if we have never been female before? Most gender roles are implemented at birth if you are born male they usually give you a blue blanket, if female a pink blanket. Is it because we are attracted to barbie dolls and dresses or trucks and trains? Ive always felt female but i could never understand how or why? since i was never actually a girl... Usually people feel their gender because of their life experience- girls are conditioned as girls and boys as boys... if ive been conditioned as a boy almost all of my life than how can i ever understand what it feels like to be female? i have never been able to answer this question even for my own feelings its just a matter of "i just feel like a female" could it be more that i think i feel female? maybe because i like dresses and the girl stuff i attribute that like as a female feeling, but then again not all females like dresses and flowers, just like not all guys are tough and into sports. This question just blows my mind, but it doesnt change the fact that i want to transition.... but i realize that if i stopped taking hormones tomorrow and stuff i would just go back to being a normal male..... :( im having a hard time coping with this
Despite all the social conditioning, I just knew being a man wasn't me - no matter how much I tried to make it so.. And saying that 'I'm a woman!' just felt right..
I think you need to be a little cautious about social conditioning. Difficult experiments to do for all sorts of ethical reasons, but just watch boys and girls grow up. I'm watching two friends first born's growing at the moment. I love them both to bits, one is a 2 yr old girl, the other a 2 yr old boy. The boy does boy stuff the girl does girl stuff, neither of them has been placed into a girlie.boyie environment. Both parents are highly educated and just go with the flow as their kids grow. They both play and get dirty and the girl comes up to Mum to have a wash, she doesn't like being dirty, the boy loves it. You scrape the mud off. They wear very similar clothes, shorts and a Tee. They have gender neutral toys, the girl is starting to pick up dolls at kindy, the boy isn't.
I'm pretty damn sure that there is a lot of biology in our gender ID.
I was brought up as a boy, very much so. I knew very early that I wasn't. I wasn't sure what I was but I knew I wasn't the same as the other boys in the room.
Cindy
I wasn't sure either... I had this exact same dilemma that you had. I personally reasoned it the same way.
I also want to be a biological scientist... I've never been an employed scientist yet I want to be one. Why? how? It dosen't make any sense but that's how it is.
However the conditioning was, living as a boy was hell.
I couldn't understand other boys, their interests was not mine, their way of talking and perspective was not mine.
it's the feeling that you're living in a place what's not your house.
Very awkwardly, just staying there and no idea where the refrigerator is or something.
And than.......therapy, hrt, rle, it was like coming home, stepping in a warm bath, hey...I found the refrigerator.
For me, there were no questions left.
Annette
It's a bit like the question, "how do you know you are gay?"
My answer is, "well, how do you know you are straight?"
You just do. It's hard wired into our hypothalamus apparently. There is room for variation, but not a reversal.
Karen.
If you feel like an outcast around your male friends and are much more in harmony with girls, chances are your brain is more female than male and hence you would feel female as a result of general interaction with both genders. Social conditioning is only around 20% of what you are, otherwise you wouldn't claim to be/feel female given that you were "socially conditioned" into a man.
Quote from: kelly_aus on January 16, 2012, 03:05:50 AM
Despite all the social conditioning, I just knew being a man wasn't me - no matter how much I tried to make it so.. And saying that 'I'm a woman!' just felt right..
Pithy and well said. Just my notions, nothing needs adding.
Axélle
Quote from: annette on January 16, 2012, 04:28:53 AM
However the conditioning was, living as a boy was hell.
I couldn't understand other boys, their interests was not mine, their way of talking and perspective was not mine.
it's the feeling that you're living in a place what's not your house.
Very awkwardly, just staying there and no idea where the refrigerator is or something.
And than.......therapy, hrt, rle, it was like coming home, stepping in a warm bath, hey...I found the refrigerator.
For me, there were no questions left.
Annette
I think that's it right there. I have three sons and they are all very different. I never allowed any of my kids to play with guns. Ever. Yet all of them are interested in gun games on PS3. My kids are older 18, 16 and 11 is the youngest. My youngest went through stages of wanting to wear pink all the time. I had a big fight with my hubby once because my son loved Dora the Explorer and wanted these pink flashing light up shoes. I bought it for him. I didn't care. I figured they would get dirty soon enough and he was only 4. I have dressed all three of my sons as girls and put them in dresses with "pretty girl looks" when they were babies. They totally didn't care. My youngest actually preferred wearing dresses up until he was about 8 years old just because they were more comfortable. He didn't like how tight the pants were. My son also has a massive gut, even though he's not fat, he's half Greek.
All of these things and none of them identify as a girl. Also I have constantly told my sons that if they grow up and get married to a man or a woman or a woman or a man. I've switched it around. I've been conscientious about it because I wanted to have them be open to gay marriage and who knows. Maybe they are gay.
Well none of my sons are gay. I can tell you know even with my 11 year old. They've been gender identified on their own since about 4 years old and then it got stronger and stronger as they got older. Now when I say "if you grow up and marry a man or a woman," they all roll their eyes and tell me they are not gay.
AND YES I KNOW THAT BEING GAY IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT> JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA HOW THEY WERE RAISED>
So my advice is not really from the inside out but more the outside in. I'm cis. I can immediately see the difference with the transgender people I have met. Now with me also I do not generally tend to get along with women. I am extraordinarily supportive of my female friends. But my personality type is an INTP And so I think a lot more like a man does. I tend to be logical instead of emotional. This can cause me to be the lean to for many of my female friends and I don't feel that I can lean back. I have one or two friends I can turn to. For the rest they lean on me. Most of my friends are men. I get along better with men. I am respected by men.
So it's not just about who you feel comfortable with or socialize with better. Part of my gender identity confusions have been based on feeling like an outside with women.
However I would never in a million years want to be a man. I love being a woman. As I've gotten older I've loved it even more. Even though I was a much hotter commodity when I was younger. I prefer myself now as I am older.
So to me that would be the clue. It's also one of the diagnosis clues for GID. It is an increasing and persistent identification with the opposite gender or neither or both. Just something is off. The outside doesn't match where you want to go.
How do I know I'm a woman?
Because I never fit in with the guys. Guys always look at me like I'm a sissy, or weak, or whatever...and they remind me (nag me?) that behaviors like how I stand, how I talk/listen, how I walk, how I think, how I think of others, even how I fart, is how a woman does things.
I can put on an act like a guy--I have learned some tidbits over the years--but it is just that, an act (and I always knew it was an act). Once I figured out I was MTF, I ditched the act and just started being me...the men are a bit older now, and somewhat less likely to actually say anything about me, but I know what they're thinking by the way they have become stand-off-ish.
I don't really know that I'm female, to be honest. I get along with some guys, some girls... I feel a little more comfortable around guys, though this may be because the girls that I have felt safe with are in the minority. A matter of experiences, I guess.
Maybe I think like a guy. I make a pretty terrible empathizer, and I can be pretty immature at times. But my sister is the same way.
So, I don't know if I'm female or not. What I do know is that I prefer to be that way - to be seen as such, to express myself as such, and to look as such. Whatever all that entails. And that's why I'm transitioning... because it makes me happy. The rest is details.
Quote from: Kelly J. P. on January 16, 2012, 03:04:40 PM
I don't really know that I'm female, to be honest. I get along with some guys, some girls... I feel a little more comfortable around guys, though this may be because the girls that I have felt safe with are in the minority. A matter of experiences, I guess.
Maybe I think like a guy. I make a pretty terrible empathizer, and I can be pretty immature at times. But my sister is the same way.
So, I don't know if I'm female or not. What I do know is that I prefer to be that way - to be seen as such, to express myself as such, and to look as such. Whatever all that entails. And that's why I'm transitioning... because it makes me happy. The rest is details.
This. Same for me. Although for some reason I THINK I feel like a girl, it doesn't really matter if I do or don't.
This question is what scientists are trying to answer. When they do, there will be a lot more knowledge and understanding of our very mysterious condition. It might even be a step into finding a way to prevent ->-bleeped-<-, which would be amazing.
I know some people regard transsexualism and related issues as an expression of being special, an add to the species' diversity or some kind of spiritual awareness or superiority, but I don't agree. For me, it's as useful and desirable as having your left hand and right leg inverted.
If they could ever find a way to diagnose fetuses with GID and inject hormones to either make the body develop in the opposite gender or make the brain develop in the body's gender, it would solve the greatest part of the problem.
I'm going off track, but still. It remains that this question is probably one of the most important keys to transsexualism... And I don't think we can accurately answer it.
- How do you know that you experience happiness in the same way I do?
- How do you know that you experience {x} in the same way I do?
- How does girl1 know that she experiences femaleness in the same way as girl2?
It's impossible to answer these questions definitively which is why social science is a bit dodgy :) The best we seem to be able to do right now is to ask people to articulate their experiences as best they can and compare notes.
My family grilled me a fair bit as to why I identify as female, but our discussions always ended in the "but why?" game - where they'd always want to deconstruct aspects of my life further. It's funny because cis-peeps get away with just saying "I just am" or using the natural argument whereas they expect us to answer questions they can't even answer in themselves.
Part of your post seems to be about expressing regret for having missed out on a typical female childhood. I share that regret but all we can do is live our futures correctly. Besides, I figure a few years post-transition I'll have been exposed to all of this female social conditioning - whether I want it or not!
Also if you stopped taking hormones you wouldn't simply go back to being male. You'd still be you :)
Mixie, what does someone's nationality have with their physiology? I'm half Greek and kinda proud of it. -1
Define "feeling like a female"...a pretty loaded question...
My mother was always very accommodating. I was always inclined to wear dresses, I bawled my eyes out when I got my first hair cut (5 years of growing it).
I've liked to play in the forest, and I've always liked role play (I was always a girl character), and digging in the dirt was always really fun.
I have just always wanted to be a girl, I told people this when I was 5, nobody liked that idea and they always told me "You're not a girl! Don't act like one!"
That kind of hurt my feelings a lot... because they weren't understanding and they were my family. I was ashamed for a long time.
I tried to kill myself once because of the way I felt and the way I was treated for wearing dresses. After that experience of almost dying I decided I would finally ask about HRT.
Now I'm not usually afraid to tell people I feel like a girl and want to be a girl, I told my neighbors because I visit them a lot, one of them likes me (semi-romantically) as a girl.
Things are turning out alright, really the feeling is the only thing that matters in the end, just as it is your opinion that matters in the end.
Quote from: Kim 526 on January 18, 2012, 07:18:53 PM
Mixie, what does someone's nationality have with their physiology? I'm half Greek and kinda proud of it. -1
Um it was a joke. Lighten up. Sheesh. -1 to you missing the bigger more important part to focus on something so petty.
How do we know? I'm not entirely sure... I'm FtM, but I figure the feelings are parallel and the reasons related; I mean, how different can we really be in terms of biology - brothers and sisters under a trans umbrella?
I guess the best way I could explain it (in my point of view) is the identification with my dad. When I was younger, it was always me and him against the world. No question that I'd grow up to be just like him, at least, until I realized things just don't work like that. I mean, I've always felt... different as a kid. I couldn't exactly pinpoint what separated me from the rest, but I distinctly remember the feeling. Didn't want to play with the girls and the boys didn't want to play with me, so I just kinda did my own thing. Made friends with a few girls later on, but we never played any gender specified games. They were there because they felt bad for me, initially, but grew close over the years. The lot of us were tomboys, I guess you could say, but the problem was that once we all reached puberty, they grew out of it and I... didn't. Suddenly, they weren't just my friends who were girls, they were GIRLS who were my friends.
It was around this time that I began to regress, and fought growing up as hard as I could. I hated the idea of my body maturing like the other girls and it was almost torture to see my female friends go through puberty first and think "That won't happen to me, right?" It was only months before I caught up with them, and longed for the pre-pubescent days. I went through a brief stage of regression during that time, finding all sorts of reasons why I shouldn't grow up, while also finding reasons to believe that I was actually a guy. "Got over it" around the age of fifteen after my parents demanded that I learn some responsibility, and so began my "girl phase" where I tried to fit in. That didn't really go over well, since I was torn half the time. Being generally secluded made any social gatherings particularly exciting, but the prospect of wearing clothes I detested made me stay home more often than not. Around last year, I picked up a sort of "who cares" attitude when it came to my appearance, and also got into writing and role playing. It was through writing that I came to terms with myself and came up with the easiest explanation for why I feel like I'm a guy:
When I wrote for a girl character, I always wrote in the third person, which focused more on detail in surroundings and events rather than thought. When I wrote for a guy character, I wrote in the first person and just let my thoughts fill up the page. The detail was still there, but the writing felt more... personal. More me.
Quote from: Laura26 on January 16, 2012, 06:24:43 PM
- How do you know that you experience happiness in the same way I do?
- How do you know that you experience {x} in the same way I do?
- How does girl1 know that she experiences femaleness in the same way as girl2?
It's impossible to answer these questions definitively which is why social science is a bit dodgy :)
You obviously don't understand what social science is or what types of questions we answer. These are philosophical questions, not social science questions. I'm a sociology major. We DO NOT seek to answer questions like this in sociology. Please don't spread misunderstanding of what social science or sociology is.
Hasn't it to do with a 'sense' of belonging?
If your sense of belonging tells you you belong to the female side of the tribe, it would be a good indicator, as much as an equal sense of not-belonging to the male side.
For myself that is the best I can come up with - and the reason for it?
I ALWAYS have been this person that I am, only that after my epiphany some things changed in priority, and sometimes I now do things in heels rather then in flats, in a skirt rather then ALWAYS in pants.
But the inner person I have grown to be over the years, has always been the same - so there is no CHANGE as such, to be all the sudden a female.
What ever I was, I am now - only I now may EXPRESS more of who this person always was and is. No more need to SUPPRESS a lot of things that the "in-closet" person had to suppress to fit into her male-mould.
Something like this :-)
Axélle
Quote from: valyn_faer on January 19, 2012, 08:56:31 AM
You obviously don't understand what social science is or what types of questions we answer. These are philosophical questions, not social science questions. I'm a sociology major. We DO NOT seek to answer questions like this in sociology. Please don't spread misunderstanding of what social science or sociology is.
I think that is a little harsh and not entirely accurate. Sure these questions are somewhat philosophical. But I can see how they could intersect with sociology. How people experience things differently may impact how they behave socially and how others interact with them. Feelings people have translate into actions. And actions are measurable. While I think it might be difficult to construct social science experiments to research this, I would not place it outside the bounds of being possible or unreasonable.
I can't explain it, I just knew something wasn't right from when I was very young. I actually played guy fairly well and enjoyed some parts of it so at least IMHO, "wanting to play with dolls" etc isn't part of my gender ID. I raced cars, rode motorcycles and other "guy stuff" I truly enjoyed. This question you asked I don't really dwell on. I could drive myself crazy wondering why I wanted this long to jump ship on being a guy when I wanted to be a girl when I was a small child. Situations change, times change, people change. Just figure out what you need to do to be happy and do it!
I also dont know... I just knew
When I was small I always imagined what it would like to a girl... I always wanted to place house with the girls... but I did boys things too..and loved it. I never wondered if there was something wrong. I grew out of this phase and was a typical guy.
then day I tried a pair of pantyhose on for the first time....
I was alone in the house I was about 16.. I remember seeing my mother pantyhose in the hamper.. a nice black pair of pantyhose..I actually stole that pair from the hamper. I just wanted to see how they looked on me as I had seen girls wearing them.. and i always thought they looked nice on legs. Before I knew it.. I had then on... I loved wearing them and something clicked inside,... maybe you should wearing these clothes as these are right for you...
The next day I tried another pair from the hamper... I bought my own pairs as time went on and kept my collection hidden,.. I never anything more until I was 21... I found a pair of black cotton panties mixed with my clothes after been in a lundramat.. they happend to be the right size. After making sure that were clean.. I tried them on with my pantyhose.. and that opened the flood gates.. I wanted to wear other clothes.. I ordered a sports bra next.. and tried that and loved it.. I loved feeling like a girl and wanted to be one inside... a few months later i ordered a dress, shoes, wig and silk underwear over the internet and when they arrived... I put it all on that evening. I shaved my legs that night for the first time
I have friend who is female, who knew about my secret (She discovered my pantyhose).. she helped with my makeup and even pierced my ears so I could wear earings. I knew then I was a girl.. and went looking for therapist and eventually that led to hrt.
It was something that always pecked away at me, since I was young(7) I didn't feel comfortable being with the other boys and preferred just spending my time with girls. This of course got odd as I got older and so got less frequent(some girls would think I was trying to flirt >_<). Don't get me wrong pretty much all my friends these days are boys and now am actually more awkward around girls.
At some point I realized I like the colors of girls clothes and wore them when I could (not around others mind you)
This then changes to outright trying to be more like other guys, I had a huge goth/rocker phase and got upset whenever I even looked remotely feminine (haircuts mainly)
Then toned it down and had an emotional breakdown that kind of knocked me out of it, I realized that no amount of anti-depressants would make me happy and that just being myself would.
I admitted to myself I liked and even envied the idea of being a girl, then tried to come to terms with sexuality?
did this mean I was gay? or was I straight? and what exactly did I like?
turns out I was bisexual which made the previous admittance easier and more frustrating.
In short I don't know, and social aspects of being a girl or a guy don't help.
I don't like cars or military stuff or even football. I didn't still don't care much for dolls or frilly things, I like books and video games and surfing (when possible) my favorite color is blue.
None of it helps define what gender I am it was and is simply how I feel.
As a child I wanted to play with girls toys but because of having 2 older brothers I knew what was expected of me so I was able to hide it, when I played with my action force figures the base would really be a house in my eyes.
I found baking cakes with my mum more fun than any of the games my male friends wanted to play, baking was the only outwardly female thing I could do with my mum (I don't mean that baking isn't something men can do now, in the 80's it wasn't considered a male thing)
I also prefered wearing my mums dresses when everyone was out of the house.
As I approached my teen years I found certain boys attractive but the thought of being too intimate with them felt wrong as a boy but I knew that being with them as a girl would be right ('ve tried wording this in many ways & have had to resort to the "it's just right for me" answer for this)
This feeling has followed me throughout my life.
On the physical side of things
Throughout my life i've disliked what's between my legs, in my eyes it's wrong, messy & just shouldn't be there.
My male muscles though puny compared to most mens are repulsive, once again i'll have to just say they are wrong.
Don't get me started on hair, it's wrong, wrong, wrong & it makes me feel dirty when I see my hairy arms, legs & chest. My facial hair is even worse, I could write several paragraphs about how much I hate it.
I also get what I call PBS, Phantom Boob Syndrome, from time to time I feel as if I have breasts, I swear I can feel their weight but as soon as I look down & my eyes see a flat chest the feeling vanishes in the blink of an eye.
Does anyone else get this or am I mad?
I've always hated shopping for male clothes, nothing looks or feels right & my mum would get sick of me wearing the same clothes for years until they fell apart & would insist on dragging me out to buy new clothes. I would spend more time risking furtive glances at the ladies section than looking at the male clothes my mum was insisting on buying for me, even a quick peek as I walked past would reveal a few pieces of clothing i'd love to buy & wear.
I could go on & on but these are the main things that jump out at me & dominate my thoughts & my life.
One point I forgot, as someone has been mentioned I feel more comfortable around women, around men I feel like an imposter.
Male conversations normaly bore me within seconds of starting (sport, cars & all that rubbish), the only male dominated topic that I enjoy is videogames, society is still struggling to comprehend that women do play games, that's not suprising because society has only accepted videogames as a pastime suitable for adults in the last decade.
Quote from: Beverley on January 19, 2012, 01:45:36 PM
That is normal for males.
One of my older brothers was obsessed with clothes, he loved getting new clothes but he was very shallow & vain, to him what you wore said more about than you did
Honestly? I don't know for certain. I suppose I really, really like being called "she", "her", etc. I've also generally fit in with girls better, and I have a strong desire to be feminine and pretty. I've always preferred stuffed animals and dolls to action figurers.
I mean, I really don't know FOR SURE, but it makes me feel so much better to think of myself as female, to style myself effeminately, and I want to transition. If that doesn't make me trans, then I'm honestly not sure what does.
Quote from: Vanora on January 19, 2012, 09:45:24 AM
I think that is a little harsh and not entirely accurate. Sure these questions are somewhat philosophical. But I can see how they could intersect with sociology. How people experience things differently may impact how they behave socially and how others interact with them. Feelings people have translate into actions. And actions are measurable. While I think it might be difficult to construct social science experiments to research this, I would not place it outside the bounds of being possible or unreasonable.
Are you a sociologist or a sociology major? I repeat, those are NOT sociology questions. I am a sociology major and a damn good one at that. People often misunderstand what we actually do and study in sociology. Psychology might study how feelings translate into social actions. Social psychology might look at what you're describing. However, social psychology is not sociology or "social science," but a mixture of sociology and psychology--and even then, more on the psychology side than sociology side. It might seem like splitting hairs to the lay person, but it's not to those of us actually in the field of sociology. Furthermore, we don't really construct "experiments," but rather engage in more quantitative and qualitative research. We do formulate theories and test hypotheses, but we don't do "experiments" with controls. You can't really do that with human beings--not in sociology anyway. You get into all kinds of ethical dilemmas.
As for how we know, the hormones and surgeries work. They ease the feeling of dysphoria.
I loathe sociology with a hot passion worse than a thousand fires. It's all about putting people into boxes and categories. When I think of sociology I think of Eugenics.
Quote from: Assoluta on January 18, 2012, 07:26:15 PM
Define "feeling like a female"...a pretty loaded question...
No kidding.
I don't know if I feel like a female or not, I just hated my previous life and self and knew that being a woman was better for me and so far, I've been proven correct. Some days, I do wonder if I really do feel like a female or if I am just fooling myself, but then I bark sometimes too, so....
I think you're mixing up cause and effect. We don't (or I don't at least) feel female because I like feminine things, but rather I like feminine things because I am female.
Whatever gender social norms parents push on their children based on their sex does not change the child's subconscious sex.
Quote from: mixie on January 23, 2012, 09:38:05 AM
I loathe sociology with a hot passion worse than a thousand fires. It's all about putting people into boxes and categories. When I think of sociology I think of Eugenics.
Wow. . . Again, you clearly don't understand what sociology is. In fact, sociology often involves critically analyzing the boxes and categories that people place each other in. In many cases those boxes and categories are then shown to be socially constructed and that they are used by those who are in power as a means of maintaining their power and oppressing others. So basically you got it completely backwards. It's a bit like saying, "I loathe atheism with a hot passion worse than a thousand fires because it's all about believing in a one supreme god that judges everyone, watches you in a creepy manner, and tells everyone what they can and can't do."
No it's not. Atheism is an opinion not a course of study. Notice it's not called "atheology" LOL Sociology is responsible for lots and lots of really screwed up crap in history. Not the least of which being Eugenics. I do hope you've read up on that.
Quote from: mixie on January 25, 2012, 12:19:56 AM
No it's not. Atheism is an opinion not a course of study. Notice it's not called "atheology" LOL Sociology is responsible for lots and lots of really screwed up crap in history. Not the least of which being Eugenics. I do hope you've read up on that.
The analogy was meant to show that you got it completely backwards and are severely misunderstanding what sociology actually is. It illustrated that quite well. That fact that atheism is not a field of study does not render the analogy useless, as the comparison was between the misunderstanding, not the nature of what is being misunderstood. You still don't understand what sociology is. Furthermore, sociology is not responsible for eugenics. Racism, classism, and a desire for those at the top to maintain their power and control are responsible for eugenics. Sorry, you've been misinformed. In fact, sociology has studied and addressed "lots of really screwed up crap," but is hardly responsible for what it has studied. But troll away.
Sociology is responsible for Eugenics. Sociology is responsible for the attempt to forcibly sterilize African American women. It is responsible for categorizing people into racism, classism, sexism etc etc etc.
You might laud it as if it's this fantastic thing. But don't come waving the banner in front of the thread and expect that you'll be heralded for it. You attacked the OP for suggesting that sociology has anything to do with those questions. And frankly those questions are way too sophisticated for sociology in my opinion.
QuoteSociology is the scientific study of society.[1] It is a social science which uses various methods of empirical investigation[2] and critical analysis[3] to develop a body of knowledge about human social activity. For many sociologists the goal is to conduct research which may be applied directly to social policy and welfare, while others focus primarily on refining the theoretical understanding of social processes. Subject matter ranges from the micro level of individual agency and interaction to the macro level of systems and the social structure.[4]
Sociology is a fake science. It takes human anecdotes and attempts to interpret them. Here's an amusing blog about how Sociology is Evil. LOL Tongue in cheek of course
http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2009/03/sociology_an_ev.html (http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2009/03/sociology_an_ev.html)
My story for how I "knew" I was a female:
Starting from the time i can remember I often socialized with things that were "female" such as dolls, or the color pink itself (not solid, but it gets stronger later) I actually dressed up as a girl once growing up (theres that "IT FEELS RIGHT" feeling from it) then later when i played video games, i could never pick a male model character... it didnt feel like it was me. I thought it was all a phase so i assumed it would go away. Then I started painting my nails with my cousin, I would go to the stores and I loved how all the girl cloths looked (again, thinking it would be for my' "bride" nope~) then as I got older, the feelings were still there, then i learned it was something that existed. And low and behold, I found my place here!
Quote from: mixie on January 25, 2012, 04:51:54 PM
Sociology is responsible for Eugenics. Sociology is responsible for the attempt to forcibly sterilize African American women. It is responsible for categorizing people into racism, classism, sexism etc etc etc.
You might laud it as if it's this fantastic thing. But don't come waving the banner in front of the thread and expect that you'll be heralded for it. You attacked the OP for suggesting that sociology has anything to do with those questions. And frankly those questions are way too sophisticated for sociology in my opinion.
Sociology is a fake science. It takes human anecdotes and attempts to interpret them. Here's an amusing blog about how Sociology is Evil. LOL Tongue in cheek of course
http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2009/03/sociology_an_ev.html (http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2009/03/sociology_an_ev.html)
I'm not going to argue with you on this anymore. You clearly have either a personal vendetta against me or the field of sociology. Sorry to the OP for derailing the thread. To go back to the original topic, I think a more interesting question is how do cis people know they're not trans? How does a ciswoman know that she's not a man? Because she has boobs and a vagina? So do many transmen. Why does our existence need to be explained, but cis people's does not?
Good question in original post! But contrary to OP's lack of confidence in clarity of the female feeling I have been fortunate to finally realize that all those confusing feelings I had were feminine feelings and not the male I was told I was.
I have raised my son as only mother would, his mom used to be quite put off by my mothering where I supposed to be fathering.
I felt closer and definitely more comfortable in all girl peer group rather than always resulted to positioning and uncomfortably puffing my chest to show my false manhood amongst males.
I loved women, thinking it was sexual, but as soon I had stopped testosterone infiltrating my vains I realized that such was an admiration rather then sexually inspired yearning. I wanted what they had for my self, to be female, to smell like female, to have the mirror image confirm my gender within!
Soft, sensual, vulnerable, I have walked this earth majority of my life denying her presence, I no longer reject her, she is ME in entirety, I am and always was SHE!
So, here's my experience: there's really two parts to my GID. There's the social aspect and the biological aspect. I hate being treated like a man. It's so not me. I like certain things that have historically been treated as a male activity, such as playing video games or reading comic books or what have you. But I hated when someone would be like, "You're the man - fix the car." Or "You're a man - get out of the kitchen." Or "you're a man - you'd never understand this woman's problem." Or "You're a man - you only want sex." Or such gender sterotypical bull->-bleeped-<- like that. I found it insulting and I felt inadequate, because I couldn't show the other person that I really wasn't a man. I like being approached as a woman, especially by other women. Partly because I'm a lesbian and I love having a partner relate to me as a woman. As for friends, I love being part of the "girl's club." That's where I've felt like I've belonged for so long - I have very few guy friends since I have such trouble relating to them. Girls make way more sense to me.
The biological part was everything that I didn't like about my body. Which was mostly whatever testosterone did to it - the secondary sex characteristics. Funny that those tend to be the gender queues to others on how to interact with a person. Maybe they're both tied in together in my psyche. It's those that I've wanted to change so that I'm comfortable with my own body.
I believe that prior to hormone therapy, you can experience being treated as a woman, but you cannot experience what it feels like to biologically feel like a woman. I had an idea of what psychological/emotional changes to expect from HT, but actually feeling it is a different (though similar) story. We are all unique individuals. And when one transgirl says she became more emotional, that "more emotional" state for her could be an average day for another person who is biologically male. It's all relative, and with that being the case, I think the ultimate litmus test on whether you will enjoy being female or not is hormone therapy and presenting in social situations as a woman. If it works for you, then it's for you. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. It doesn't get much clear cut than that.
Quote from: Sarah7 on January 31, 2012, 10:13:59 PM
I guess this is part of why I have issues with gender. I don't really feel it, not the way other people describe it. And, beyond my general desire to know everything, I don't really care about gendered norms of behaviour. I've never behaved or presented like a "normal" guy and I don't present or behave like a "normal" girl now. (Whatever the <not allowed> normal is other than a setting on the washing machine.) I went from living as a feminine guy to living as an androgynous girl. I'm actually MORE masculine now in a bunch of ways than I was before I transitioned, just to be super special confusing. But I don't really care about any of that.
For me it just comes down to my body. It was broken, and I've known it was broken for a very long time because of the pain it has inflicted on me. And now I'm finally fixing it. It's really that simple. I know what I've done is right because I don't want to die now, because I don't hurt all the time anymore, because I like who I've become.
I am female. The rest is commentary.
Ever so well put. Bravo! +1
... and all the rest is commentary :-)
Axélle
Because doing the things I want to do and wearing the things I want to wear and looking how I want to look and just generally being myself has always been impossible because people saw me as male, but it would be perfectly normal and acceptable for a female.
Not very complicated.