I just want to check what I am doing here, because transition is brutal, it is hard, and it is good to keep thinking.
So, when I came out, I gave my closest friends time to adapt to the new pronouns. Some did so instantly, some took a bit of adjustment. There was one person who I told I'd only really wish ( or rather, demand ) proper threatment once I was full time, so it was that. HRT changed my face fairly quickly, and I went full time about 3 months earlier than I was thinking I would.
Despite talking with that person about it, she ended up refusing to change pronoun threatment. First she said she couldn't, and further ahead, she said she would not for religious reasons. When I talked with her about it I was calm and polite. Anyway, upon hearing her reasons, and even once begging for her to just say my name -once-, I told her "ok, that is that. I will have to step away from you, because I am not x, I am y, and I can't accept being called by anything other than my name"
Something similiar happened with another person, except there was no religious reason involved. She was a close friend, but she just can't do it, for some reason I don't know. I remember telling her I felt it was lack of respect if someone didn't even try to correct it, and I couldn't be close to her anymore if she did not. Back in those days, hearing the male name really hurt me, really did, and I was doing therapy to mature and get over it. I am over it now, and these days, I find it so ridiculous and small to be called by a male name I can ignore it.
By these two, I am basically seen as wrong for acting this way. The fact they were close friends, people I'd ask help for, and would generally stick up for me, makes me question what I am doing. Deep down, still, I think I am right. I am TG and I have to stick up for myself, there is patience, and there is a limit, that limit being full time. I have to give out my own terms, and fight for them, otherwise the world will never accept them.
It hurts to have lost my friends though, these two in special. I wonder, have any of you been in this situation? How did you deal with it?
You have to give them a lot of time and a lot of forgiveness. It isn't easy for us to transition let alone expecting our friends and family to move along with acceptance and pronoun changes as quickly as we would like.
For the religious issue, I simply severed ties with those who would not recognize me as transgender. Working for the church fulltime for a very long time, I have stopped communicating with some friends who would not accept me but I have been as equally as impressed over the religious friends who saw a real life friend (me) going through this and now they had to seriously take another look at their own theology regarding sexuality and gender identification....because it was no longer something they have seen on a video but a real flesh and blood person they know personally.
It takes a lot of time and patience. Even the most sympathetic people will have troubles identifying you as a totally different gender. Also, if you do not live full time as a woman (I do not know...so this is not an accusation towards you in any way) then it will be even harder for them to grasp the reality of your gender identification because they see a man but a man who is wanting people to call her "she." You even get that drawback from transgender people so I know it will be more of an issue to a society who isn't used to gender changes.
My mother knew I was intersex the moment I was born. It took her a couple months to really come to grips with the fact that I am Annah and no longer Rob....and she is my biggest supporter.
I hope this helps!
Yes it helps me to sort things out some.
It is funny how dysphoria works. I remember it felt like I would die everytime I heard my male name, now that I am off the rails of GID, I can hear it and just think of it as a name. I was basically telling people: it hurts! no more!
Quote from: Bird on January 28, 2012, 02:07:38 PM
It hurts to have lost my friends though, these two in special. I wonder, have any of you been in this situation? How did you deal with it?
Yes, I had a similar experience with losing my friends. I am dealing with it now, by deciding to go back to being a boy. If I can actually do it, I think it'll be one of the best decisions I ever made.
Is that really dealing with it though by going back?
Yeah I have the same problem. I have a couple of friends that think I'm just a cross dresser. So they still use "him, he", and it does get tiring. What you should do is, just ignore that name or pro noun by not answering to it. Like if they calling your old name to get your attention, just ignore it and say ohh I'm sorry, didnt here you call my name "girl name" or something. I'm still part time, so I answer to both, but when I'm in girl mode it gets annoying. Plus I can see how it will be hard to switch in an instance when its burned into their mind for so long. Like the other's are saying give it time.
Sugar Hugs :D
@Broken
It hurts to be called a him when you are full time though, it felt disrespectful. Honestly, I didn't know what to do, I guess I will never know what I should have done. I'm kinda glad I followed my gut feeling, though of course, I will miss my friends.
Quote from: Bird on January 28, 2012, 04:05:07 PM
@Broken
It hurts to be called a him when you are full time though, it felt disrespectful. Honestly, I didn't know what to do, I guess I will never know what I should have done. I'm kinda glad I followed my gut feeling, though of course, I will miss my friends.
Well if they are doing it on purpose, then you are being disrespected. Confronting the conflict like you did with your one friend was the right thing to do. You can always do a meany thing too, by calling them the opposite gender in front of people. Then they might know how it feels.
I'm really sorry that your hurt, I do wish people wouldn't be so simple minded.
Happy Hugs :D
@broken
Thank you.
I put a lot of value into (true) friendships. I see them as unique and valuable things. I also find it is possible for a true friend to not accept transition and it hurts both sides. I have been having a rough ride with my friends at university, they have no clue of how much I value their friendship and it hurts me when I lose it.
It is complicated, because though it is disrespectful, it is not intended disrespect. It is just, she couldn't bring herself to do it.
Clearly they are not standing by you.
I've had two people who refused to use anything but my old name/pronouns. One even tried to make up a name she said she was comfortable with! LOL Life is TOOO short to deal with narrow minded people like this. If they truly were friends they would at least try to change. I transitioned in place so I'm not "stealth" and every once in a while someone I don't interact with a lot will slip up but they instantly correct themselves. My solution is, just avoid people who can't and won't accept this change. They are a VERY small minority. It's hurtful and if they feel their principals are worth hurting you over and over, do you need friends like that? I don't.
And also one thing I have noticed is people DO slip up and call women sir at stores etc, especially if they are tired and a lot is going on etc. I've seen this happen to several GG's so I don't flip out if someone does it to me now and quickly go "oh duh sorry ma'am".
Quote from: Bird on January 28, 2012, 04:24:02 PM
It is complicated, because though it is disrespectful, it is not intended disrespect. It is just, she couldn't bring herself to do it.
If you have told them them, "It hurts me every time you do this" and they continue, how is that being a friend?
QuoteIf you have told them them, "It hurts me every time you do this" and they continue, how is that being a friend?
I told her it hurt me so much it was unexplainable, I remember saying something like it felt like being cut with a knife. I agree, she was not my friend by saying those things.
I'm under a lot of pressure from my university friends due to my transition. We expend 6 years studying together, four of those I was a guy for them. So it is being tough. I am glad though, this is almost over and I have a horizon to look forward to. Thank you for reminding me of my needs as well, Stephe. I tend to overlook myself.
Quote from: Bird on January 28, 2012, 05:26:32 PM
We expend 6 years studying together, four of those I was a guy for them. So it is being tough.
One of the friends I had ben friends with for 15 years, most of them as a guy. YOU and your feelings are valid. If they are not willing to deal with this, they are not real friends.
Quote from: Stephe on January 28, 2012, 08:26:44 PM
One of the friends I had ben friends with for 15 years, most of them as a guy. YOU and your feelings are valid. If they are not willing to deal with this, they are not real friends.
Stephe has it right.. If they cannot do something as simple as use the correct pronouns and name, they are not a real friend.. My best friend from High School, whom I've known for 23 years or so, has no problem with correctly gendering me, or using my name - and I was the Best Man at his wedding..
I gave people plenty of time and leeway, most have come around. A few haven't and I simply have nothing to do with them. Heck, even the preacher treats me with respect and just avoids pronouns. One night when he was in the store, he actually slipped up and called me ma'am, lol.
Quote from: Bird on January 28, 2012, 02:07:38 PM
I just want to check what I am doing here, because transition is brutal, it is hard, and it is good to keep thinking.
So, when I came out, I gave my closest friends time to adapt to the new pronouns. Some did so instantly, some took a bit of adjustment. There was one person who I told I'd only really wish ( or rather, demand ) proper threatment once I was full time, so it was that. HRT changed my face fairly quickly, and I went full time about 3 months earlier than I was thinking I would.
Despite talking with that person about it, she ended up refusing to change pronoun threatment. First she said she couldn't, and further ahead, she said she would not for religious reasons. When I talked with her about it I was calm and polite. Anyway, upon hearing her reasons, and even once begging for her to just say my name -once-, I told her "ok, that is that. I will have to step away from you, because I am not x, I am y, and I can't accept being called by anything other than my name"
Something similiar happened with another person, except there was no religious reason involved. She was a close friend, but she just can't do it, for some reason I don't know. I remember telling her I felt it was lack of respect if someone didn't even try to correct it, and I couldn't be close to her anymore if she did not. Back in those days, hearing the male name really hurt me, really did, and I was doing therapy to mature and get over it. I am over it now, and these days, I find it so ridiculous and small to be called by a male name I can ignore it.
By these two, I am basically seen as wrong for acting this way. The fact they were close friends, people I'd ask help for, and would generally stick up for me, makes me question what I am doing. Deep down, still, I think I am right. I am TG and I have to stick up for myself, there is patience, and there is a limit, that limit being full time. I have to give out my own terms, and fight for them, otherwise the world will never accept them.
It hurts to have lost my friends though, these two in special. I wonder, have any of you been in this situation? How did you deal with it?
This is exactly the kind of stuff I have dealt with. Religious people won't do it because they see it as an affirmation, that they approve of something that is, by their standards and beliefs, wrong. You'll never win that battle. However you can ask that, if they will not use your new name, to use your last name. But make it clear that you will not answer to the wrong name or pronouns. This is what I had to do. Even showing legal name change documents wouldn't change their mind.
I agree with everyone else that your friends weren't really being friends. I think you did the right thing.
It's odd I haven't given this much thought myself, I'm so expecting total rejection from family and friends that it hasn't really been a worry yet. Though thinking about it now, I'm not sure yet how I will manage the conviction to try to get people to change what they call me. Just the thought of that conversation is so awkward.
My birth name is male, but due to popular media it gets used sometimes for either gender, so I could possibly keep it for a while anyways, though honestly I hate it, always have, just for being so odd. So this will be nice in a way. Just not with people I know now. So wanting a "new start" bleh.
I approach the entire thing with a great sense of humor and curiosity :)
I knew (before I even started) that people would react differently and see things differently. So, I decided that I would play things more relaxed... that I wouldn't stress over semantics and would just let each person decide for themselves how they are comfortable seeing me.
Really, you can't FORCE someone to see you differently. You can try to talk to them, try to help them understand, try to let them get to know you and see other sides of yourself... but in the end, how they see you is up to them. Yelling at people or making drama and getting upset so people call you something else is just needless drama (IMO). You can maybe force them to use a different word.. but you aren't really changing how they think about you...
Of course, there are limits though... disrespect and insults shouldn't be tolerated. ((So, are they calling you your old name just to piss you off? Or is it simply because they still see you as the same person and are having trouble letting that name go? ...completely different sittuations, and each require different responses).
Really, I am finding it pretty interesting how people see me. My brother, for example, saw me recently and saw nothing different (except for longer hair)... while, some friends completely see female and use female pronouns and names. Either way, it doesn't change who I am :)
All the internal issues and trying to sort out "what i am" is enough for me ... I just really can't be bothered with trying to sort things out for everyone around me too :|
Quote from: Rabbit on January 29, 2012, 01:38:53 AM
I approach the entire thing with a great sense of humor and curiosity :)
I knew (before I even started) that people would react differently and see things differently.
That's all well and good till this "friend" introduces you to a group of new people using wrong pronouns and your old name when you look and sound like a woman. So then these people who would have thought of you as a woman, (after the shocked look on their faces fades away) think you want to be a man still. U can see the VERY confused look on their face and they aren't sure how to address you. The ONLY people who did this nonsense were a very few people who new me before. I never have the pronoun issue anymore with new people I meet. It's embarrassing for me to have to deal with JUST because this other person refuses (usually for some religous reason) to use at least my new name. Sorry I don't yell or get mad, I just don't associate with the VERY few people who do this. I don't see it being some huge imposition for people to call me by my name.
I have the same issue, since it isn't too much of a problem.
Like one friend is making the honest effort correcting and saying Zylphia when he calls me Thomas, or referring to me with a female pronoun.
His best friend who is one of my good friends accepts that I am who I am, but still calls me Thomas, and refuses for some reason to refer to me as a girl.
It can get pretty annoying I guess.
My friends are kind of ->-bleeped-<-s so I'm hoping when I deem it time for them to start addressing me by a new name/pronouns they take it seriously..otherwise I really have no problem cutting them out of the picture.
I have one friend who has problems with getting the pronoun. I don't care so much when it's just us hanging out, but it's incredibly embaraasing with strangers, like waitstaff. I'm afraid to go out with him anywhere public because of the embaraasment. I mean, at the point that I'm way passable, it won't be such an issue, because then he'll look retarded. But at this point, once the wrong pronoun is used, it's a give-away for me. And that sends the wrong impression to that stranger - they won't know how to address me if my own friends aren't addressing me as a woman. It sort of invalidates everything that I'm trying to convey to people with my presentation. My presentation says, "Treat me like a woman" but my friend's actions say "Treat him like a man." Not happy! I wouldn't be so upset about it if he was making an effort, but I don't see one at all. I explained this to him, because he was acting upset that I was upset, and he backed off a bit. But, basically, you're totally in the right for feeling how you do about your "friends." If they really were your friends, they would respect what you are doing and try to support you how a friend should. I think you'd be better off looking for new friends - the one's that you'll find that accept you for you will be far better for you than hanging onto the old friends who are hanging onto the old you.
Quote from: Cadence Jean on January 31, 2012, 09:06:03 PM
I have one friend who has problems with getting the pronoun. I don't care so much when it's just us hanging out, but it's incredibly embaraasing with strangers, like waitstaff. I'm afraid to go out with him anywhere public because of the embaraasment. I mean, at the point that I'm way passable, it won't be such an issue, because then he'll look retarded. But at this point, once the wrong pronoun is used, it's a give-away for me. And that sends the wrong impression to that stranger - they won't know how to address me if my own friends aren't addressing me as a woman. It sort of invalidates everything that I'm trying to convey to people with my presentation. My presentation says, "Treat me like a woman" but my friend's actions say "Treat him like a man." Not happy! I wouldn't be so upset about it if he was making an effort, but I don't see one at all. I explained this to him, because he was acting upset that I was upset, and he backed off a bit. But, basically, you're totally in the right for feeling how you do about your "friends." If they really were your friends, they would respect what you are doing and try to support you how a friend should. I think you'd be better off looking for new friends - the one's that you'll find that accept you for you will be far better for you than hanging onto the old friends who are hanging onto the old you.
+1 on this. It just is weird and even if you are -way passable- it will be totally weird if the waitress comes up and he says "Take HIS order first".. People do slip that knew you before, that's understandable, but after a while even that should disappear. I honestly have found that very few of my old friends are still friends. We still chat some but the things we had in common then aren't relevant to me now.
Quote from: Cadence Jean on January 31, 2012, 09:06:03 PM
I have one friend who has problems with getting the pronoun. I don't care so much when it's just us hanging out, but it's incredibly embaraasing with strangers, like waitstaff. I'm afraid to go out with him anywhere public because of the embaraasment. I mean, at the point that I'm way passable, it won't be such an issue, because then he'll look retarded. But at this point, once the wrong pronoun is used, it's a give-away for me. And that sends the wrong impression to that stranger - they won't know how to address me if my own friends aren't addressing me as a woman. It sort of invalidates everything that I'm trying to convey to people with my presentation. My presentation says, "Treat me like a woman" but my friend's actions say "Treat him like a man." Not happy! I wouldn't be so upset about it if he was making an effort, but I don't see one at all. I explained this to him, because he was acting upset that I was upset, and he backed off a bit. But, basically, you're totally in the right for feeling how you do about your "friends." If they really were your friends, they would respect what you are doing and try to support you how a friend should. I think you'd be better off looking for new friends - the one's that you'll find that accept you for you will be far better for you than hanging onto the old friends who are hanging onto the old you.
I really like my friends, but I think I might have to end up leaving them behind...
I mean they are great, nice, and fairly reliable. Good friends.
Except when it comes to me being trans and wanting to be known as a girl.
I totally agree with this post.
I don't know about the other girls' experiences, but I've found that I make and keep friends way easier now. I think has something to do with living authenticating. So, if you(the OP) are scared of losing friends, just remember that for every one friend you lose, there's probably five more waiting out there to befriend the real you. :)
Cadence
I noticed that is what has been happening. I had such a hard time keeping friendships before, now it is easy for me. The friends I had before transitioning all see me as a guy, no matter how much I change or do, but the people I meet now see me as a woman only. It enables me to function, meet people, and keep their friendships.
I think i will start a thread about this!