Did anyone live fulltime as Woman Pre-HRT? :)
Me! Ive been full time since april 2010 and am still not on HRT
I did.. It requires that you not care what others think though, something that many people don't seem to be able to do..
Quote from: El on February 04, 2012, 06:09:45 PM
Me! Ive been full time since april 2010 and am still not on HRT
Quote from: kelly_aus on February 04, 2012, 07:30:06 PM
I did.. It requires that you not care what others think though, something that many people don't seem to be able to do..
thanks for your input!
my psychologist was like "well you can't go fulltime without hormones" and when i said "ofc. i can" we went into an argue with each other and she kinda made me feel like iam not able to cd fulltime while iam pre hrt.
3 years... pre-pretty much everything. I've been on HRT for about the last year and a half. HRT doesn't change you as much as some believe. It simply isn't some sort of wonder treatment. Mentally nor physically.
I lived totally full time as a woman for 3 years with ZERO therapy/meds/doctors or anything. I just did it. Just this spring I started HRT and had a nose job done in august. Honestly though the BIGGEST improvement hasn't been HRT or FFS but VOICE TRAINING. It blows my mind why therapists harp on HRT etc and almost NEVER mention or suggest dealing with voice? Look reasonable, have a positive attitude, have a decently feminine voice and that will take you further than HRT or FFS ever will.
Quote from: kelly_aus on February 04, 2012, 07:30:06 PM
I did.. It requires that you not care what others think though, something that many people don't seem to be able to do..
What others think is... really important. Really really really important.
Suddenly going "fulltime" when you don't look the part will create all sorts of trouble for a person. First, there is just the basic 'I don't wana get fired because I'm freaking everyone at work out" thing. Losing your job and being unable to get another one will make life REALLY suck. If a person is being supported some other way, then sure, have fun and dress however you want (like highschool kids do).
And then, there is the entire social aspect! I guess you could become more attached to people doing the same thing (like goths hang around goths)....but then your friends are limited to a small pool of people.
After that, there is the entire day to day living. Everywhere we go we have to deal with other people. Presenting in a way that really clashes with peoples sense of "ok" will make the most simple things (like grabbing a sandwich at subway) an annoying experience... filled with looks and rude comments and behaviour.
Really, if a person completely stops caring what other people think and starts to present in a socially odd way, they are going to just make life much worse for themselves than it needs to be. (Filled with drama)
Being different is fine. Pushing the boundaries of what is "acceptable" is part of self expression in society... but you just have to be careful and aware that you aren't going too far and creating a spectacle of yourself. I have told all my friends (repeatedly) to stop me if i start to go from "different" into "freakshow" ... every choice in my presentation I carefully consider and watch how others are reacting to it (and that is why I go slowly... small changes at a time...my latest addition is makeup as more normal wear... but only concealer and foundation and a bit of lipgloss).
Quote from: kelly_aus on February 04, 2012, 07:30:06 PM
I did.. It requires that you not care what others think though, something that many people don't seem to be able to do..
Same here - in fact I had to, had no choice. So... you go do it. Period. The rest is history.
,,Wo ein Wille ist, da ist ein Weg..." (Where there's a will, there's a way ...)
Axélle
Not me, I was on hrt for two years before I went fulltime, although I was read as female for some time by then by people who did not know me, so it became actually very difficult not to go fulltime. Everyone else had the idea that I was going to anyway, made the talk with most quite easy.
Im glad i went full-time first, it put the responsibilty of good presentation firmly in my hand rather than giving me the excuse of "oh HRT will make up for that"
I didn't go with this route here in the UK the "specialists" are pretty tyrannical and expect that you be living fulltime for about a year prior to any HRT begin given for no other reason than they are ->-bleeped-<-heads.
The very fact that I had gender dysphora made my life hard enough as it was if I couldn't pass I was planning on living as a male anyway and never going fulltime but using estrogen as an effective anti-depressant as it made my gender dysphora not as bad and removed alot of anxities I had about my body masculinizing further and making facial hair removal easier. (Weather I went fulltime or not I Dispised many of my male characteristics and I was working to remove them)
If this is the path somones wants to walk with their transition that's fine all the power to them. However any notion of superiority about this route over any other is foolish.
Frankly it probably wasn't much easier than doing it without them (Probably more compressed) as I still had to deal with numerous complications. as time gose on your body becomes more feminine and androgynous such changes will trigger nervous reactions. But I have regrets from not having started sooner waiting on the grotesquely incompetent specialists to speak to me would be a meaningless excersize.
"Do you/Did you have the flu?" In responce to me experimenting slightly with my voice. and the fact that I'd also become much paler and skinnier through loss of muscle mass.
Those questions stop and are replaced with alarmed remarks after awhile when those bumps start becoming noticable.
No matter what you do it causes some social upheaval.
:( im sorry that has been your experience of transitioning, I really like my gender specialists, they are both really nice and really seem to want to help and i havent faced much social upheaval, and that which i have had has been mostly from my own insecurity than through the words or actions of others.
I personally think that people should go full time before hormones but i dont agree that it should be a forced thing. Im 100 times more passable now than when i first went full time and i dont think that would be the case if i had been granted HRT early.
The only thing i would say against the NHSs handling of my case so far is the administration error that led to the loss of my referal. That wasnt the specialists fault though and they seem as angry as I do about the whole fiasco.
I have a friend who went FT without HRT, mostly because her therapist was stalling on writing her letter.
I had been on a form of HRT for 1.5 years when I went FT, though it was only after I was FT for four months that I convinced my endo to increase my dose to one that has proven effective for me (I finally feel *good*.) Prior to going FT, though, Spiro was added and that had a profound mental effect for me. I do not feel I could have successfully gone FT before that as I was this ball of intense emotions, mostly unhealthy relationships with negative ones.
I am certain, for me, that trying to go FT before HRT would have meant that I had a second failed transition rather than a failure years ago and a success this time.
Well in my opinion jumping straight into full-time without preparing yourself could for some be a bad idea. For starters you'll need an outfit for everyday of the week so a full wardrobe is necessary. Also removal of at least some of your facial hair is probably a good idea unless you wanna show off your 5 o' clock shadow to the world lol. The most important thing you should work on though is your voice, I can't stress that enough.
I think some preparation before hand is the key to a smooth transition. I'm about 6 months HRT now and i'm having a hard time pulling off guy mode so i know i'm gonna have to take the next step and go full time soon. I started getting my facial hair removed pretty early so it's about gone and i've been slowly building up my wardrobe over the last year. I practice my voice everyday and it sounds really good which i'm quite proud of but still i'm a little scared to go fulltime. I'm thinking about going full time this summer after FFS but idk.
i dont like the term "full-time" and dont see it as relevant for me, as I immediately began consistantly presenting my gender as female as soon as i learned how to do so, and my gender expression has always been genderqueer or androgynous (and as such there has never been a need for me to be "part time", as i have always worn whatever clothes, accessories, make up, hairstyles, etc I wanted to). That being said, I am a trans female who has been consistantly presenting her gender as such for almost a year, without hormones. I am intersex, and pass well. sexual biology varies immensly amongst humans (and other species) and i imagine passing is more difficult for some without changing their sexual biology via hormones, but i view gender as being social, basically.
Quote from: Rabbit on February 05, 2012, 10:34:19 AM
What others think is... really important. Really really really important.
Suddenly going "fulltime" when you don't look the part will create all sorts of trouble for a person. First, there is just the basic 'I don't wana get fired because I'm freaking everyone at work out" thing. Losing your job and being unable to get another one will make life REALLY suck. If a person is being supported some other way, then sure, have fun and dress however you want (like highschool kids do).
And then, there is the entire social aspect! I guess you could become more attached to people doing the same thing (like goths hang around goths)....but then your friends are limited to a small pool of people.
After that, there is the entire day to day living. Everywhere we go we have to deal with other people. Presenting in a way that really clashes with peoples sense of "ok" will make the most simple things (like grabbing a sandwich at subway) an annoying experience... filled with looks and rude comments and behaviour.
Really, if a person completely stops caring what other people think and starts to present in a socially odd way, they are going to just make life much worse for themselves than it needs to be. (Filled with drama)
Being different is fine. Pushing the boundaries of what is "acceptable" is part of self expression in society... but you just have to be careful and aware that you aren't going too far and creating a spectacle of yourself. I have told all my friends (repeatedly) to stop me if i start to go from "different" into "freakshow" ... every choice in my presentation I carefully consider and watch how others are reacting to it (and that is why I go slowly... small changes at a time...my latest addition is makeup as more normal wear... but only concealer and foundation and a bit of lipgloss).
I'm so glad that I never had an experience like that.. My work uniform is unisex, so that was hardly an issue.. I still have all the friends I had from before, as well as a bunch more. I didn't just start suddenly wearing dresses and skirts around.. ::) That's bound to cause issues.. ::) I did however exclusively wear women's clothes. Jeans, shorts, track pants, all with nice tshirts or little tops.. And guess what, I got very few 'looks' or 'bad comments and behaviour'.. And those few I did get, I laughed off, as it is simply a display of how narrow minded they are..
The only drama in my life during that time involved a housemate - and only because he developed a drug problem, not due to anything I was doing..
Quote from: Rabbit on February 05, 2012, 10:34:19 AM
And then, there is the entire social aspect! I guess you could become more attached to people doing the same thing (like goths hang around goths)....but then your friends are limited to a small pool of people.
After that, there is the entire day to day living. Everywhere we go we have to deal with other people. Presenting in a way that really clashes with peoples sense of "ok" will make the most simple things (like grabbing a sandwich at subway) an annoying experience... filled with looks and rude comments and behaviour.
Really, if a person completely stops caring what other people think and starts to present in a socially odd way, they are going to just make life much worse for themselves than it needs to be. (Filled with drama)
Is this from your own experience in doing that or are you assuming all this will happen? I experienced none of this when I was living as a very obvious genderqueer. Nothing happened at work either but YMMV on that.
Quote from: Stephe on February 05, 2012, 06:42:19 PM
Is this from your own experience in doing that or are you assuming all this will happen? I experienced none of this when I was living as a very obvious genderqueer. Nothing happened at work either but YMMV on that.
It is from a lot of things (including my own experience in how I have presented myself over the years). I have spent my entire life watching how me and my sister are treated differently simply based on how we present ourselves (she is overweight and dresses very poorly, and I'm in shape and dress nicer / cleanly).
The issue isn't gender or presenting androgynous... the issue comes when a person starts expressing themselves in ways which fall outside of what others feel is "ok". That covers a very wide range of things (not just if you have makeup on or what style your clothes are in... but it includes things like personality and movements and all the various other aspects that make up how we present to others).
What people think of us is just so important... if people look at you and like what they see, it can make for a very different life and experience. Unless you just don't have any contact with people... then... it doesn't matter much.
Quote from: Rabbit on February 05, 2012, 08:20:55 PM
What people think of us is just so important... if people look at you and like what they see, it can make for a very different life and experience. Unless you just don't have any contact with people... then... it doesn't matter much.
OK let me try once more, I lived almost 10 years of my life as a genderqueer and didn't experience what you describe. I don't give a crap with other people think and don't try to fit in with what is considered "normal". My life doesn't suck in any of the ways you have described. Honestly I have had a LOT of people say "I respect you have the guts to just be who you want to be". It more boils down to your own self image. If you BELIEVE people will treat you bad than they will. If you believe you are doing something wrong so will others. I'm convinced the people who have such a hard time BELIEVE they will, they create the negativity they deal with by their own negativity.
I read SO much negativity from some people here, many of whom have never tried to live full time but ASSUME what will happen based on their own lack of self confidence. What you have posted twice in this thread goes against what a half dozen people who have actually done this have experienced and yes we all are in contact with people. No one who posted is a hermit. You can continue to believe you are right and feel this way, you likely will create the exact problems you describe because you believe that's what will happen.
I think maybe we are speaking about different things. I am speaking of presentation in general (not just gender presentation and dress). Presenting as genderqueer does not have to be socially damning :) I am kind of genderqueer also... and don't have any problems from the way I present :)
I legally changed my name and started living full time in September of 2010, and I just started HRT on the 18th of December, 2011.