For all you ladies and gentlemen who have lived life on BOTH hormonal cocktails, what effect do they have on the mind?
What happens physically is pretty obvious from my Pre HRT perspective.
The mental stuff is harder to grasp.
Aloha,
Tori
The only real mental change I've had was an end to my constant depression - most of the rest of my changes stem from that one thing. The others seem to be caused by simply accepting who I am, as many of them started before I started HRT..
Thank you for your reply Kelly.
I suspect there may be more to it than piece of mind... but perhaps not much more.
Running on T, I certainly have to fight the compulsion to be argumentative and competitive on this forum. I do think my gonads have some control over my brain and it can take effort to work around them.
A lack of T would likely effect this... but I wonder what E might change. E seems to be subtler (like most people who run on E are more subtle) but I do think it does more than effect the body.
How 'bout emotions or empathy?
The biggest change I noticed was it takes a lot of effort to cry. But it actually feels more like a physical than mental limitation. The emotions are still there but no physical manifestation.
That is an interesting point.
I am quite open with my emotions, for a man... but still have no idea why my SO cries when she is happy.
I feel empathetic, but not to the point where I feel somebody else's pain. This seems to be more hormonal behavior rather than social behavior.
That said, I can understand why a MtF on HRT may not give E the credit it may deserve. To them it may simply feel like they are finally being themself.
I was always fairly emotional and empathetic, the lack of depression simply makes it easier to express this..
I'll be honest, I think people attribute far too much to the mental effects of HRT, when I think most of it is simply becoming comfortable with the real you..
Quote from: kelly_aus on February 04, 2012, 08:04:48 PM
I was always fairly emotional and empathetic, the lack of depression simply makes it easier to express this..
I'll be honest, I think people attribute far too much to the mental effects of HRT, when I think most of it is simply becoming comfortable with the real you..
I am neither in a position to agree nor disagree.
But I am starting to see your point.
The very act of starting to transition has made a world of difference on my dysphoria. Pre therapy... Pre HRT... My dysphoria is waning. Forward progression seems to limit my dysphoric temperament... still, it helps me to know the next steps are coming.
It was the biggest, most rapid change to me. I went from a robot to a mother in like a month. I used to have to think of my reactions to things that "required" emotion, now they just come out sappy. For example: a co worker said "the only B word a girl should be called is beautiful" around everybody at work. I remember a time I would've chuckled and said "that is the wussiest thing I've ever heard", but I seriously couldn't keep myself from thinking how sweet that was, and I just blurted out "AWW!"... and everyone looked at me like I was crazy lol! I've found myself crying over simple crap like being shown how to do stuff, truly caring for people going thru distress, and genuinely being happy for others who do things with great results (unless I'm jealous, then I get sad).
My sex drive is far more oriented towards how a guy has treated me lately, other than how a guy looks. Looks are still a factor, but treatment will turn me on as before the looks did it. Looks are more of a qualifier now rather than an aphrodisiac.
Mood swings.. wow, watch for those. I can go from getting up happy in the morning to on the verge of tears because somebody points out a stain on my shirt, then back to happy after seeing a kitten picture. I'm starting to control it a little better but it was bad for a while.
I think a bit less focused now too. I used to be able to concentrate on one goal, but now when I see what I need to do, I see a million different worries. My classmates joke that I over analyze stuff. I had some bit of a problem with this pre-HRT but not to this degree.
There have been some annoyances with the mental / emotional changes, but I wouldn't go back for the world. I love who I've become! I'm generally more happy than ever. However my estradiol levels are sky-high, so that may have something to do with all of that.
EDIT: Also, the way I've handled anger has changed. It's like the difference between blowing up a stick of dynamite and eating a cupcake. They actually have the same amount of energy, but pre HRT I'd blow up in an instance and be back to normal afterwards (like dynamite). With HRT I get mad and simmer all day long, like eating a cupcake. I miss being able to get mad and then just being like "SCREW THAT PERSON.. ahh better".
Quote from: Forum Admin on February 04, 2012, 07:53:59 PM
The biggest change I noticed was it takes a lot of effort to cry. But it actually feels more like a physical than mental limitation. The emotions are still there but no physical manifestation.
that's crazy to me. Even before i started hrt It wasnt difficult to cry. I have no idea what that might be like. heh.
Quote from: Tori on February 04, 2012, 07:29:46 PM
For all you ladies and gentlemen who have lived life on BOTH hormonal cocktails, what effect do they have on the mind?
The largest change I noticed is I am calmer and don't -react- to things as much. I still can be persistent and get pissed, just at a milder level. Otherwise I seem about the same. Basically a slightly softer version of my old self, which is a good thing.
Alain, thank you. What you have said is very interesting to me and I wonder if others have felt the same.
I wonder of straight MtF gals have an easier time feeling the emotional cues from hormones than us lesbians. Or perhaps y'all are more feminine to start with so the hormones can just do their mental thing. I dunno...
@ Stephe,
As usual, you speak my language. :)
Thank you for your opinions.
What I wanna know is why is it necessary for M2F to take E? I mean after you do the SRS, or orchiectiomy, you don't have any more T...
So why do you take E?
Quote from: belushka on February 05, 2012, 08:25:36 AM
What I wanna know is why is it necessary for M2F to take E? I mean after you do the SRS, or orchiectiomy, you don't have any more T...
So why do you take E?
Protection from osteoperosis, heart health, skin condition. Hormones do more than just change secondary sex characteristics, they do their own parts to maintain health functions.
You need T or E for healthy bones.
One or the other is required.
An orchi or SRS would end primary testosterone production.
A MtF would likely prefer E to T after going through such a dramatic surgery to eliminate T production.
Thanks a lot for that info, I didn't have a clue about that.
But 200 years ago women didn't take any E after they entered the menopause, and they were fine....
Why do cis-women take E after they enter menopause? I mean it doesn't make sense, your body stopped producing it naturally.
Why take it ? Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
Belushka,
The average life expectancy in the 1750's was 37 years for both men and women. Didn't leave much time for menopause!
Just saying...
Quote from: belushka on February 05, 2012, 09:57:37 AM
Thanks a lot for that info, I didn't have a clue about that.
But 200 years ago women didn't take any E after they entered the menopause, and they were fine....
Why do cis-women take E after they enter menopause? I mean it doesn't make sense, your body stopped producing it naturally.
Why take it ? Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
200 years ago women didn't live much past menopause. Also, if they did, i'm pretty sure they suffered from osteoperosis.
@ Belushka,
Yes I do understand, and I think I answered your question... at least medically. There are as many personal reasons to stay on E as there are mature MtF's taking it.
;)
Quote from: belushka on February 05, 2012, 08:25:36 AM
What I wanna know is why is it necessary for M2F to take E? I mean after you do the SRS, or orchiectiomy, you don't have any more T...
So why do you take E?
Not only to avoid osteoporosis but also to help your body - lest it helps itself by make you grow real fat.
Body fat is another body-source of estrogens.
Looking at some of the older eunuchs you will see what happens without supplementing E.
My 2 cents,
Axélle
Quote from: Axélle-Michélle on February 05, 2012, 11:24:34 AM
Body fat is another body-source of estrogens.
:O I need to lose weight!
Belushka: I guarantee you, if a woman lived past menopause in the 1800s, she was probably in a lot of pain. In those days pharmaceuticals were more herb-based and naturally sourced, meaning if they had the money they probably received some form of pain reliever. I think it was Queen Elizabeth I who was administered marijuana to relieve menstrual cramps.
Regardless, no one was 'just fine' 200 years ago, they were just better able to put up with intense discomfort and pain because there were no alternatives. Rotting teeth, poor sewage resulting in very foul-smelling cities, diseases, even simple gut problems would have been terribly painful. Very little sanitation of food and no Pepto Bismol.
Just some food for thought!
About mental changes - I'm not on T yet so I only have estrogen flooding my body. But when I'm ovulating, you know, two weeks or so before Shark Week, I get really ... clucky. And sometimes I don't want to transition. I get sensitive, I think kids are wonderful and cute, I'm more likely to spend three hours watching cute animal videos, and I have no desire to be a man. I sometimes even think men are sexually appealing and that's just something I'm not cool with. So, I would say that yes, starting to take hormones can affect you mentally. And I cannot wait to start taking testosterone to end this fluctuating personality >.< Lucky for the MtFs on hormones, you have a steady dose rather than a fluctuating one so you can expect to be relatively stable once you've been on E for a while.
Quote from: Ryno on February 05, 2012, 12:30:59 PM
About mental changes - I'm not on T yet so I only have estrogen flooding my body. But when I'm ovulating, you know, two weeks or so before Shark Week, I get really ... clucky. And sometimes I don't want to transition. I get sensitive, I think kids are wonderful and cute, I'm more likely to spend three hours watching cute animal videos, and I have no desire to be a man. I sometimes even think men are sexually appealing and that's just something I'm not cool with. So, I would say that yes, starting to take hormones can affect you mentally. And I cannot wait to start taking testosterone to end this fluctuating personality >.< Lucky for the MtFs on hormones, you have a steady dose rather than a fluctuating one so you can expect to be relatively stable once you've been on E for a while.
lol this is my world.. every, single, day. Plenty of information is out there on the theories of how estrogen effects the brain. It's not just "I can start being myself" ... I know who I was before E and I *guarantee* I'm not the same person.
Hi Tori
I was on Sustonen from age 21 to 31, stopped completely for 8 years and have now been on Reandron since Sept 2010.
The Sustonen was from memory (don't know if it still is) made up of 4 base elements that would peek and trough within a 4 week timeline. I felt like my mind peeked and troughed along with it. I didn't relate it to the hormones for years though. Someone else did. I decided to take a break from them, which unintentionally became 8 years but I was passing so was ok about it. So after living with E for 8 years, T sure feels like it's putting me through a brain change.
E was like having a million emotions all at once ALL the time that I never understood or knew what to do about. Anxious like a rubber band pulled to almost snappng point all the time.
Reandron (T) is like being on the right meds. Like some chemical balance has taken place. Things are either this or that, black and white. None of the mental brain sludge in between anymore. I don't feel confused by my own thoughts anymore. The disquiet that used to push me to tipping points is buried under extreme contentment and happiness that has lasted for a year now. As the T took over, the disquiet faded more and more. The only thing that is able to disturb this is the well being of my daughter (21). When she's ok, I'm ok. I haven't experienced this for years. I'm begining to bring back the personality I had as a kid when life was an adventure and I was positive with a fun sense of humour. I still have humour but it's more of the in my own head. Sharing it usually doesn't go down well. >:-) I never felt this good on the sustonen.
There have been days when I have broken due to crap in life but the recovery was much quicker. I've also let go of a 26 year old friendship. I woke up to the fact that it was VERY damaging to me and I'd been holding onto it emotionally if that makes sense. They actually got really pissed off that they couldn't get me to respond emotionally when they started abusing the crap out of me. It felt awesome to be copping it full on and to be able to let it slide right off me.
I also spent last year pushing my limitations and consciously doing the opposite of what I'd conditioned in myself. Saying yes to what I'd normally say no to etc. It was fun and I re-established why I said no to things in the first place lol.
I went through all the emotions of the physical changes 20 years ago, so for me all that there really is this time is the mental brain change. At first I questioned it a lot but realized it was the T so relaxed and went with it.
That's how it was for me.