Hello fellow unicorns,
I have been reading a lot in the forums these days.
But first of all, I would like to quote a post from ativan and say how much these lines touched me. So much. :)
| "You're travelling through another dimension, a dimension not only of
| sight and sound but of mind; a journey into a wondrous land whose
| boundaries are that of imagination. That's the signpost up ahead -
| your next stop, the Unicorn Forest!"
|
| It exists along the highway that connects the two cities of binary
| gender. You've already stopped in for a look see. It's full of
| wonderful people looking for who they are, to some old souls that seem
| to have almost magical powers of reasoning, that of the forest itself.
| On occasions, strictly binary thinking people will visit to declare
| that unicorns do not exist. HAH! You'll find out that indeed, they are
| here in this wonderful forest of many paths, clearings, lake shores,
| and at the very least, a nod of recognition from all who you meet.
| Welcome.
------
to clarify the title: "towards females _only_" in the sense of hetero, no bi, -- not in the sense "these questions are limited to ... only" :)
Anyway, let's get started. Questions are related to some degree. (As to myself, there (gladly) is congruence between an androgyne mind and behavior, androgynous appearance.)
Question one, a simple one: How do you deal with being thought of as a gay male by some? Or as beeing talked of as a heteresexual that comes across as gay? How do you deal with comments (from women) that they know some gays that would be so much into you. (And with gays that actually are into you.) And if you are *not* being thought of as gay despite your androgyny, why do you think is that?
Question two, it is obvious that dating becomes largely difficult. (In fact, there is nowhere to feel home, the lgbt community seems to be of less help actually than hetero mainstream and its surroundings, since you seem more likely to find a girl that leans in orientation towards androgynous males there, than within lgbt. in fact, within lgbt, you can count out l, g, t and male b. what remains are perhaps 20%, which are female b. whereas, in mainstream, you'll have 50% females with compatible orientation. (To my knowledge, bi women are not more likely to lean towards andro males, than hetereo women, or am I mistaken?) So so much for the subcultures. -> Question, what are your dating strategies? How to single out those women whos orientation actually lean towards the androgyne?
A note to female-born androgynes: Sorry for being so much on the male perspective here -- this is about orientation, so I have little to say from you perspectives...
insert: ok, in retrospect i am inserting that the following has gone overboard and is no longer a question but lots of ideas and points.
Question three, I found it interesting that the whole problematic of evolutionary psychology (with regards to _orientation_) is rarely if ever discussed here. I mean, we all know the more or less accurate reasoning about the alphas and betas and what hetero females typically look for in a mate. This is not to say that being (male-born) androgyne necessarily robs you of a dominant, or confident stance. Think of various androgynous pop stars. Still there is much room, and obviously there are those androgynes that don't exactly exhibt these traits. E.g. by being _overly_ feminine, or by being somewhat child-like, or whatever. -- So what I am saying, even if we are being confident and at easy with our identity, sexuality, and appearance, we are likely to fall into the "not dating material" category. I'd also like to point to the character sheldon from the big bang theories. I actually find it extraordinarily refreshing that he is being portraied as straight despite him being gay in real life. This one of the types of persons I have in mind, writing these lines. Back to topic, I would furthermore like to point to the ladder theory's (take it with a grain of salt, but theres much truth to it imo) definition of intellectual whores (a man that is kept by a woman for intellectual and emotional purposes but is not regarded as a potential mate, whilst the man does develop feelings), the plight therein, and who male "straight" androgynes may well fit into this, even thought of course the IW concept is as such not geared towards androgynes, of course, but towards heterosexual supplicant losers that are not deemed sexually attractive. Still I see overlap. The problem I see is that while there is motivation for these - as the pickup lingo calls them: - average frustrated chumps, to step out of their former behavior, cater to female emotional needs of a strong man (think advice to do get more muscels etc., practice a lower voice etc), this proves a punch for male-born heterosexual androgynes who precicely decided to actively go into the direct opposite! Personally, I have realized that for myself, all this leads to a bifurcation, namely in fact that I like to be androgyne in every day interaction, be feminine up to imagining I were a women when it comes to kissing and the sensitive parts of love (this is where I totally need to cut out any maleness), and then when it comes to the explicitly sexual, there suddenly is a 180° shift in the sense that all the male sexual dominance mindset and feelings are absolutely intact, even though to be performed explicitely with an androgyne body, i.e. there is _no_ shift that would then suddenly make me wish I had masculine feature that I otherwise despise, like body hair, muscels, a deep voice, etc.
Another question for male-born hetero androgynes, what's your feeling towards other mbha's? I notice how I have VERY varying views on them. Some I find distasteful, some I find likeable up to beautiful (but that'very s rare, and never meant sexually). Sounds banal, but what I am trying to say is, I find myself disliking certain over-the-board feminine mannerism in men a lot, up to a point where I admit that I really should take a look at my own female mannerism (e.g. i like to blink with my eyes in a female way, or make movements with hands and arms while talking in a female way) and find that there is a line where there is a break, i e when overdoing, my feelings towards it turn from love-it to find-it-ridiculous/unaesthetic. I am trying to find the "cool" dose of all this, but I realize that it really won't help much, since all behaviour is ultimately geared to make an impression on others, and chances that those happen to find the extent that to which one choses to exhibit female behavior caters to their preference is unlikely anyway, so why bother that much... ;) So basically I realized that I should avoid noticeable affected mannerism (think: those typically exhibited by feminine gays/even stronger drag queens) since these really seem to be overcompensating, in fact watching many females that I find feminine, I find these are NOT doing that stuff and still manage to be very feminine.
...and i also concerned myself a lot with emo subculture, and in how far those who are _male_ and adopt to this, can successfully blend in to heterosexual mating. i could find anything on emos in this forum, which i found strange. there a quite a lot of aspects about emo culture that i can associate with, even though of course i am aware of the questionable, up to idiotic, aspects of it. and to note, that it is a youth culture and, like any subculture, much about conformity through individuality / individualty through confomity / groupthink etc, which turns me off anyway. but i do like some styles and many of their prescribed attitudes.
OK, enough for today. Looking forward to your comments. :)
..
ps if you find some phrases incongruent, it may be because i am not a native speaker, obviously. pls ask for clarification then. might be using some words incorrectly.
LOL! I did say that! (OMG somebody read what I wrote)
Question one: I tell them I am not gay. However the situation plays out, that is just the honesty of it all.
Question two: There isn't to my knowledge any place on the internet that is set up for finding a suitable Androgyn relationship.
I wonder how confusing it would be with all the labels and explanations that would have to be thrown out there.
Dating is the same for everyone, regardless of gender. You have to put yourself out there where others are too.
Find the places where people are not concerned with gender 'rules' and go there. Above all else, be yourself.
Question three:Always just be yourself. People try out lots of different ways of trying this, the 'secret' is to just stop trying.
There are always going to be more people who you are not attracted to than ones you are. The mountain of variables is just that.
A mountain of things you are not attracted to. This is the way it is to almost all people. Be open to anyone.
Those variables may not seem so large and disagreeable if you find positive things you really like about someone.
Be totally honest with yourself. People recognize this, they will find that as a positive regardless of anything else they may not care for.
Look for others to be honest. Talk to them. You may find out some very surprising things about them you like and about you.
Stop thinking in terms of gender. Yours is different than everyone else's. Get it out of your way in seeing other people.
Granted I have met some of my relationships in a bar, but that happens when you spend to much time in a bar.
I'll be 60yrs old this year. I tend to get bored in longer term relationships. I have had one that brought my two beautiful daughters into this world.
My sexual relationship with their mother stopped a long time ago. We still have the relationship of being responsible parents. It works.
Most of my relationships tended to come from the overlap of groups of friends, some from contact in my jobs.
Those usually turned out to be the better relationships.
I do have several relationships that are very loving, we say it, we let it grow, we hug and lean on each other on occasions. There isn't any sex.
Why screw up a perfectly good love for someone by trying to define it with sex? It doesn't have to be. I am not 'kept', I am the other half.
Relationships for Androgynes aren't any different than anyone else's. You find common grounds and attractiveness. Love can be elusive.
There are a lot of people out in the world looking for their soul mate. Nobody ever said it had to be by the rules, especially those you set for yourself.
The less you think about your presentation and someone else's, the more you are likely to find each other.
It would be nice to have a place, a bar, a club, a real forest...whatever...to meet people like ourselves. (wanna come up to my tree house?)
But in the reality of it,... so wouldn't it be great for a lot of people.
The ability to express love without thinking about it, the kind for people in general, is what makes you attractive.
You don't need a place, you are here already, in the world, where we may be able to find each other.
You have seen it, you know what I mean. Being comfortable with other people makes you open to communication.
If you're compatible, you'll know it. It doesn't come from a preset mindset of what you like and don't like when it comes to others.
It so limits the people that you will find in life that you are meant to find, and them to find you. This is the same for everyone.
The only way we are different is in our understanding of gender. Binaries are so limited in finding that right person because of the set rules.
We can be more open and loving when we let ourselves. Find that within yourself, it's there. Comes with the territory.
Honesty about who you are, regardless of who that is today, is the biggest hurdle in finding that someone you want to be with.
I talk to much,
Ativan
was assigned male at birth and have no attraction to cis males (have found people of the other 4 gender groups romantically attractive but I'm also asexual. so any relationship will be "uncommon" If I'm asked if I like guys or girls I say I prefer girls. Just the other night a guy asked me for sex I responded "No I'm not Gay" He seemed rater desperate offering money which I refused and walked away he then called me a slut I responded that If I was a slut then I might have had sex with him and just kept walking away. I think that answers question 1
Internet Dating has been of no luck so far. most people on dating sites seem to be looking for something specefic and if you don't fit The Ideal then it is a no go. I would love to be in a relationship, most people who find me attractive say so in ways that I don't enjoy (grabbing my butt or requesting sex. I'm happy to act sexual on the dance floor but when it crosses into things that are overtly sexual It is just wrong for me even If I do find them attractive in a romantic way which has nothing to do with looks.
in reguard to Q2 most people who I'm attracted to are bi girls or trans people (both binary types) or other non binary people. I always present as me and while most "straight" people see me as gay - because they think a guy in a dress has to be gay, I do do some creative things in "normal space" (non queer) local comunity band,Art classes, Physical Actor training classes. I'm open to finding friends / possible lovers in everything I do, I doubt that a straight girl would be interested in a bearded lady or a man in a dress also from the bi girls I know they like real men men and real women but not the people inbetween I do know some queer girls who are attracted to people who are not cis male
Hope you won't mind my freshening a stale thread. I'm new here, and these questions were so intriguing, I wanted to add my take.
Q1: I'm typically not thought of as gay, mostly because I've been married for almost 20 years. When I was dating, usually the girls I approached didn't think I was gay because, well, I approached them. If anyone thought I was girl-like, they didn't say so, but then I've had decades of experience hiding it. I know some gay people I really respect. If someone thought I was gay, I think deep down I might take it as a compliment.
Q2: Dating was a real b**ch. I tended to relate to potential girlfriends more as their sister or other girlfriends might. They were interested because of my looks, but then they often backed off because our interaction seemed too strange. So what was my strategy? I hope and pray this won't get me in trouble with the rest of the forest, but my strategy was to get women in bed as soon as possible. My fascination with women and how their bodies work and what what made them tick made me an OK sex partner, and sometimes that served as a glue to keep us together long enough for them to get to know me.
Q3: What do I feel about other MBHA's? I don't meet many. If I actually got to know one, I might recognize a kindred spirit. But it's possible I met a few and didn't even know it. I'm a bit put off by other males since they don't seem to understand my way of relating, so I might shut myself off before I found out.