Like seriously my sisters are no different, I can tell. But atleast they keep their opinions to themselves.
The best answer I can come up with is that our condition freaks people out. They don't get it, can't wrap their minds around it. So, since they don't understand us they fear and hate us.
And I've heard the whole "it's not our problem, it's the hater's problem" idea. And while that might be true, there are indeed haters who make it our problem by making problems for us.
I wish I had something hopeful to post in answer to your question. But right now, I don't have anything too concrete. I imagine you probably get tired of reading the "hang in there" posts. But really, I don't know what else can be done.
Blame it on all those awful shows like the Springer show, that's pretty much what most people grew up on, it was entertainment hating on trangender women, absolutely disgusting show. >:(
There's been more positive programs in the last few years and some people will take the time to enlighten themselves to the why's and hows, but still mud sticks from these old shows on repeat. Ugh!
I really believe that it has to do with the demographics of where you are at. This world has many nice places that treat transgendered people like people and I happen to be lucky enough to live in one of those places. Connie makes some good points too but acceptance is out there if your willing to look for it. The bottom line here is the human race just sucks in general, that's why we look for individuals who are either like us or accept us for who and what we are.
At the same time, we shouldn't have to look for acceptance. Our detractors don't stand in the air and levitate their clothes on. They have to get dressed like the rest of us.
Quote from: Connie Anne on February 27, 2012, 07:32:43 PM
At the same time, we shouldn't have to look for acceptance. Our detractors don't stand in the air and levitate their clothes on. They have to get dressed like the rest of us.
Are you sure they don't levitate, I'm thinken they might.
Of course we shouldn't have to look for acceptance but that's the way it is for now. A little reality check, there will always be hate no matter who, what, or were you are. Pessimistic, no, just reality.
Two or three years ago I went to a anti bullying rally sponsored by the LGBT comunity and during the candle light walk through town I was bullied by the people behind me, that was just downright bizare so there you are.
Because we're demon possessed? :D Ok forgive me, I'll get serious. We've heard that kind of tripe before though haven't we? I think Gretchen's right, it's more about where you live and hang out. In my former business I traveled all over the U.S. and find that the coastal states are populated by much more tolerant people. Middle and upper income people in these areas are usually really too busy in their own daily lives to take the time to indulge in ignorant behavior toward others. They are more susceptible to act kindly toward those they sense may be different, they take on political correctness as a social responsibility. This is a generalization of course, there are always twerps. Lower income and street types are adept at reading other people and make a habit of having a social pecking order and often take sick joy from beating up on someone because it makes them feel superior. Bottom line is that ignorance breeds contempt! Each year it gets a little better but as long as there are human beings it won't ever be perfect and all the legislation in the world can't make anyone like or even accept someone else.
She-male porno association with, does not exactly help either
The only REALLY nasty stuff that has been said to me in my neighborhood has been from some of the lesbians that live here. Go figure.
My best friend was a lesbian. when I started my transition she choose not to be my friend anymore, sad :(
We don't live under rocks and they do.
Seriously I think it is the difference thing. I also think we scare the doozy out of many male sexualities. They are fragile things and we take them to a place that they cannot understand and are even jealous off. They are totally paranoid that by liking us, they compromise themselves to their friends.
As for Gay people not liking us, well I've never understood that either. But Gay men tend to be intolerant of lesbians and vice versa.
Cindy
I'm own experience (being in the closet mostly, only told parents and some select friends) the main problem is that my being trans* forces them to define the concepts "male" and "female" for the very first time. People do not think about these concepts, they are taken as axioms (for lack of a better term). It's the first thing people ask after birth, it's so fundamental to our world view or mental map and more importantly it's wound up with a lot of complex social rules, cultural expectation: duties, rights and in the end, because gender is still unequal, privilege.
Everyone I told, had this moment where they had to think for the very first time every that the concept of gender might not be so simple. They don't have a problem so much with me, they love me and understand that this is hard on me. The problem is that they do not understand, and the very idea that gender might sometimes be a whole lot less simple, much more complex and ambiguous just doesn't "fit" in their map of the world. And anything that doesn't fit but can't be dismissed or ignored tends to trigger "taboo", "scary", "crazy" and in people so inclined "godless" or "demonic".
You really can't convince someone of anything as long as their view of reality depends on them not understanding it.
I don't think I can expect other people to adapt any faster then I did? I myself needed many years to figure out this weird conflict I had; Many more years to understand that it's much more then just being a man who it slightly more feminine. And years more to get to the point where I accept that I'm female and that this will never change. I know that I want nothing more then to transition.
For me the personal benefits are much greater then any personal cost. I am convinced that I can never be really happy as a man. That I will not be able to be myself as long as I have to keep pretending to be a man. The question however is more complex.
When the people I love are able to adjust then I will go ahead, and while they are not... I will be more myself, because I know that I can not continue to pretend or lie anymore. I will limit censuring myself and I will become more honest about my experiences, feelings, hopes, dreams, preferences, etc. Let them meet the real me and give them time to adjust to this shift in concepts.
Quote from: Beverley on February 28, 2012, 06:42:21 AM
Males are worried they might fancy us and thus be GAY (oh nooo!!!!)
Females are worried that we are still males and will ogle them in changing rooms and loos.
Well, there is
that... obviously... ::)
but being asexual I find this
let's project everything in terms of sex very limiting and.. well, a bit weird? ??? and perhaps obsessive? >:-)
Quote from: Beverley on February 28, 2012, 08:28:16 AM
But not everyone is asexual, in fact almost everyone is not asexual... or TS... or T* anything.
Or they just don't know yet... The ones that are confused about their identity, the ones that doubt, react the most agressive? They project their own insecurities away from themselves and onto someone else...
Hm, maybe this give me a chance to wear my little devil horns on my head. Well it reminds me that people are people generally, some accept you for who you are, others WONT. When I went to Uni I had a few girls I was hanging around with after lectures, they "knew" all about me because my so called friend told them about me. Although the gang were all cool about me, the fact was they all had some pretty wishy washy ideas about Transsexualism, and Transvestism too. I genuinely believe most women don't get it and never will. That story was from long ago in my past when I was a pre op, but I bet peoples attitudes are no different now to how it was then. At LEAST some people TRY to understand, while others just put up the red no go sign. Its like "tra-la-la-laaa" - fingers in ears, I can't hear what your saying.
My own experience of knowing people in the gay communities, I have at LEAST one gay friend, who is generally open about anyone, Lesbian, Gay, Bi, and TS. Nothing really phases him. I actually don't know what it is with Lesbians though. I haven't really spoken to any though I admit. Maybe with men its a hang up about their own sexuality, and it could be the same for Lesbians too, who like man, may find a girl "attractive" but can't get their heads around the fact that the girl is TS. Probably really makes their head spin, and that's why they hate TS, because they are so confused about TS, and their own sexualities. Just a thought :)
Catherine.
I never had problems with lesbians or other women, contrary, they seem to like me.
Be positive, a lot of people will like you, others don't, i rather focus on the people who like me instead of people who don't like me.
I have had only one lesbian kick me to the curb. I live in an area where there are a lot of lesbians and most of them know me and are ok with me, they neither like or dislike me. I for one do not like everyone, peace, love and happiness, dream on.
Quote from: Stephe on February 27, 2012, 10:49:30 PM
The only REALLY nasty stuff that has been said to me in my neighborhood has been from some of the lesbians that live here. Go figure.
lesbians are susceptible to BRSS.
Quote from: Gretchen on February 27, 2012, 11:05:45 PM
My best friend was a lesbian. when I started my transition she choose not to be my friend anymore, sad :(
lesbians are susceptible to BRSS
Quote from: lilacwoman on February 28, 2012, 01:30:10 PM
lesbians are susceptible to BRSS
Built Right Storage Systems?
I think it's because most people fear what they don't understand, anything that deviates from the norm is feared & shunned.
It's sad because we as a species will never be able to evolve to our true potential if we can't understand one' n other and look past our differences.
I think like another poster said this forces them to reconsider something they assumed was a given. That Male = Man and Female = Woman, period. The idea that this isn't true and we deconstruct this standard is disturbing to some people. Most people think birth sex = gender. There is of course sexual orientation which isn't linked to gender or physical sex either one.
So as a born male who lives as a woman with a male partner, am I gay? I honestly don't care how others view this but my boyfriend has told me he is heterosexual and given he has never shown any interest whatsoever in my junk, I believe him. I'm Bi so you can't ask me, any playground seems fun to me :P
Quote from: Renee D on February 28, 2012, 11:16:58 PM
Some are.... :P
Yes, but the same could be said of all walks of life. Just read the news every day. All of the 'pillars of the community' you read about turns out to be crooks, murderers, perverts, etc. But remember, not all of us here on this forum walk east Colfax Ave, Castro Street and those other notorious places that others associate with our conditions. Most of us here have a very strong sense of decency and morality despite the problems of others accepting us.
Joelene
east Colfax Ave, Castro Street
You realize that those two places have nothing in common with each other right? Guess not. Castro is a very, very expensive neighborhood in a very expensive city. There are no streetwalkers there - window shoppers perhaps, movie buffs for sure, pretty boys by the truckful, but they are not doing prostitution. And unless 'your condition' is being a highly educated, professionally successful gay male, you're not represented in the Castro.
Society is awash with with people doing all sorts of strange things, but they all put on a facade of being perfectly "normal" and can't be seen.
As MTF's we alone are identifiable and so to some extent we carry the can for everyone.
To the ignorant, we're just weird - and if we're THAT weird then who knows what else we're into :(
Sorry, Tekla. I don't know why Castro Street got into my mind. Yes, east Colfax has the low rate hotels only along a two to three mile stretch and that is shrinking due to the constant redevelopment. Otherwise there are businesses, theaters and restaurants along nearly its whole length. Colfax (US 40) as a whole is the one of the longest main streets in the world at 26.4 miles in length. There is actually a marathon up it once a year.
The state capitol building, The City and County of Denver building. The Denver Mint, and 2 downtown areas of Denver's suburbs are along this street.
Joelene
when I was begin tormented by various Christian individuals they attributed numerous powers to me, to make my threat seem greater.
Apparently I engaged in witchcraft/demonic summoning and the power to enter dreams (This came out of the scarring on my body from self harm)
the other one is where they make my condition *seem* infectious.
If I'd had such powers I would have been able to defend myself alittle better don'cha think.
If I had the power I would totally infect the biggest bigots in society.
Pebbles honey, they aren't Christians, they are just wanna-be's playing at church and they give Christ a black eye with their bad behavior. There are Christians here that post, they are the real-meal-deal, cut them some slack and don't let some bigot turn you into one too.
@Pebbles, my church has been a place of great acceptance for me, at times greater acceptance than I've been able to find on this very message board.
Quote from: Shantel on March 01, 2012, 08:53:16 AM
Pebbles honey, they aren't Christians, they are just wanna-be's playing at church and they give Christ a black eye with their bad behavior. There are Christians here that post, they are the real-meal-deal, cut them some slack and don't let some bigot turn you into one too.
This^
Thanks, Shantel. Hugs.
Joelene
With regard to the question in the subject line, I suspect the answer is simply: because transsexual people are easy targets.
Psychological motivations aside, if it wasn't one person or group of people being stigmatised, it would be another. The hows and whys have already been covered, in terms of fears and insecurities. But also, it seems to be human nature to externalise feelings of inadequacy, fear and rage onto people who will not fight back, or are considered weaker somehow. It seems to make some people feel good about themselves to know they have power over someone else and give them a perverse reassurance that they aren't at the bottom of the Homo Sapiens food chain.
And the herd mentality of a lot of groups of people make such actions easier for some to justify to themselves. Forgoing personal morals and responsibility in favour of a catch-all "they deserve it" attitude, which is further affirmed by far too many sources that such morally bereft individuals resort to in order to ease their conscience.
I read a story about the horrors of Auschwitz written by a Jewish man who had been forced to remove the corpses from the gas chambers. He had noted that the bodies were always in a huge pyramiding pile the smallest and frailest on the bottom, while the biggest and strongest were always on top in the struggle to escape the gas which was heavier than air and took time to reach the ceiling of the room. It is a hideous physical example of what Sephirah is alluding to.
Quote from: Joelene9 on February 29, 2012, 04:47:14 PM
Yes, but the same could be said of all walks of life. Just read the news every day. All of the 'pillars of the community' you read about turns out to be crooks, murderers, perverts, etc. But remember, not all of us here on this forum walk east Colfax Ave, Castro Street and those other notorious places that others associate with our conditions. Most of us here have a very strong sense of decency and morality despite the problems of others accepting us.
Joelene
Well said Joelene !!!
Most people cannot tell the difference between ->-bleeped-<- prostitutes, she-male porno actresses, and female impersonators, and "the rest of us." The formers elect to look female to make a living -which is OK with me-, but most people consider them either "evil" or immoral or at least shameful. "We the rest" did not elect or choose to be the way we are, we are not evil at all, but the victims of a physical birth defect.
Quote from: tekla on February 29, 2012, 06:40:22 PM
east Colfax Ave, Castro Street
You realize that those two places have nothing in common with each other right? Guess not. Castro is a very, very expensive neighborhood in a very expensive city. There are no streetwalkers there - window shoppers perhaps, movie buffs for sure, pretty boys by the truckful, but they are not doing prostitution. And unless 'your condition' is being a highly educated, professionally successful gay male, you're not represented in the Castro.
You are absolutely right Tekla. Yet for most American's the mention of the world "Castro @ SF" evokes visions of gay orgies at bathhouse, etc...and has become a synonym of Sodom and Gomorrah
Quote from: peky on March 03, 2012, 09:08:02 AM
You are absolutely right Tekla. Yet for most American's the mention of the world "Castro @ SF" evokes visions of gay orgies at bathhouse, etc...and has become a synonym of Sodom and Gomorrah
I guess even places have a hard time shaking off bad sterotypes. That is also true for places like Cleveland, OH, or Colfax at Denver
I'm not even sure that any part of that is a bad stereotypes, (hell, it's a major tourist draw) it's just the wrong neighborhood, and where Colfax is bad, and has been bad, the Castro is nice. You should be so lucky as to live there. One of the warmest parts of SF, 10 minutes on a bike to downtown, awesome theater, killer views, best places to eat - what more do you want out of life?
(I think I was introduced to Colfax in HS because Kerouac talks about it in On The Road. The Cassidy character - Dean - lived out that way, it was ->-bleeped-<-ty then, and that was BEFORE the interstate really drug it down.)
i like to say that when christopher columbus "discovered" america, he screwed everything up.