Frankly, I've been curious about this for a while, and I want to know what you guys think?
Honestly, I've loved drag queens for years.
I have the utmost respect for them and what they do, and of course, I think they're absolutely fabulous.
And yes, I am a HUGE fan of RuPaul's Drag Race, I'll admit that here and now.
However, I've been wondering...
Would an FtM involved in drag (And NOT as a Drag King, mind you)
Be considered a 'real' Drag Queen? And would they be "Allowed" to do so?
Like during shows and stuff? Or would most of them not allow it because they were born as females?
I've been curious, not that I'd ever have the confidence to do it, but because maybe I'd like to dress up in drag and take pictures of it.
I'm not really into the idea of being scrutinized, but if I am, then I'll deal with it with a grain of salt.
I just want to know what you guys think about it.
Mind you, I have no clue if an FtM Drag Queens already exist out there...
Also, Sharon Needles, I ->-bleeped-<-*** love you! <3
Edited for language.
Uhh, I'd be one the bandwagon that says they can be.
And please do.
I'll be your number one fan.
*never seen an FtM drag queen*
Quote from: GentlemanRDP on March 01, 2012, 01:01:42 PM
Also, Sharon Needles, I f***ing love you! <3
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
its essential for adrag queen to hav male genitals as that is their attraction to their core audience so without the genitals you won't be taken serisouly as a DQ but may find work in burlesque
I've actually looked it up a little just now,
And apparently they exist, but finding pictures of them is proving very hard.
I'm wondering if that's because they don't want people to think that they're 'really' not trans for dressing like women?
And YES! Another Needles fan! <3 Woohoo!
Quote from: lilacwoman on March 01, 2012, 01:08:20 PM
its essential for adrag queen to hav male genitals as that is their attraction to their core audience so without the genitals you won't be taken serisouly as a DQ but may find work in burlesque
Well, honestly, I'm not trying to find 'work'
I just want to take pictures because I rather fancy whoring myself out on DA in tasteful and fun ways.
But I totally understand what you're saying about target audience and what not.
So does that mean that it would be acceptable for an FtM whose had bottom surgery?
Quote from: lilacwoman on March 01, 2012, 01:08:20 PM
its essential for adrag queen to hav male genitals as that is their attraction to their core audience so without the genitals you won't be taken serisouly as a DQ but may find work in burlesque
lol Drag Queens tuck their junk.
and i don't think it's ever questioned if any drag queen is actually male or not.
Sounding like a guy is pretty much enough for everyone to believe it.
I have no experience at all with drag but I completely fail to see what genitalia have to do with it.
You'd just skip the whole tucking thing which surely is not the higlight of a drag performance?
Go nuts =p
Quote from: JoeyD on March 01, 2012, 01:15:15 PM
lol Drag Queens tuck their junk.
and i don't think it's ever questioned if any drag queen is actually male or not.
Sounding like a guy is pretty much enough for everyone to believe it.
Lol yeah, was just about to say that, pretty sure most performance spaces or whatever does a dick check on Queens.
But yeah, FTMs can be drag queens. Not all people who transition to the male end of the spectrum are out as FTM so they would be seen as just a man doing drag, ie: a drag queen.
There is no licensing committee or Drag Queen Board of Directors or anything like that to enforce any "rules"
Quote from: JoeyD on March 01, 2012, 01:15:15 PM
lol Drag Queens tuck their junk.
and i don't think it's ever questioned if any drag queen is actually male or not.
Sounding like a guy is pretty much enough for everyone to believe it.
Hahaa, good point there.
Unfortunately RuPaul's Drag Race doesn't allow transwomen even though the rules are:
"All contestants selected must be 21 years of age or older at the time of taping, and all contestants must be biological men".
Haha I guess it would be cheating though, since we are on HRT.
But going by that logic, transmen who are on T should be allowed.
I don't know where I'm going with this.
Well, I don't want to be on the show xD
I just love to watch it <3 And consider it a big inspiration.
Also...I just found,
Apparently, there are 'Bio-queens' out there,
Women born as women, who live as women, and who perform as queens.
So apparently genitalia doesn't have anything to do with it after all.
Cool :3
Here I come wig shop!
actually i have friends who worked in drag shows in Hamburg's Reeperbahn as pre-ops but once post-op they were shown the door.
Its essential for a drag queen to be male to feed the fantasies of hot sex for the males in the audience and to feed the transphobia of the females.
Have a good viewing of Priscilla Queen of the Desert - either the film or the stage play and see how maleness is essnetial in a drag queen.
So obviously, shows restrict them,
But apparently, it's not completely unheard of.
Quote from: lilacwoman on March 01, 2012, 02:05:13 PM
Have a good viewing of Priscilla Queen of the Desert - either the film or the stage play and see how maleness is essential in a drag queen.
I found a mistake in what you said, your consistency is lacking
Quote from: lilacwoman on March 01, 2012, 02:05:13 PM
Have a good viewing of Priscilla Queen of the Desert - either the film or the stage play and see how penis is essential in a drag queen.
Fixed it.
I don't mean to be catty, but I find the fact that you say 'Maleness' and equate it to 'Penis' as being somewhat offensive. Buck Angel wasn't born with a penis, and he is extremely male.
Quote from: GentlemanRDP on March 01, 2012, 02:10:08 PM
I found a mistake in what you said, your consistency is lacking
Fixed it.
I don't mean to be catty, but I find the fact that you say 'Maleness' and equate it to 'Penis' as being somewhat offensive. Buck Angel wasn't born with a penis, and he is extremely male.
This.
Trans men can be drag queens. I've performed as a drag queen before.
Quote from: Nygeel on March 01, 2012, 02:27:42 PM
Trans men can be drag queens. I've performed as a drag queen before.
Awesome!
I have to ask,
Mind sharing your drag name?
If you had one that time of course?
don't fix what isn't broken. its the maleness of the drag queens that is the attraction.
Quote from: lilacwoman on March 01, 2012, 02:43:33 PM
don't fix what isn't broken. its the maleness of the drag queens that is the attraction.
I don't get why this matters so much to you.
doesnt matter if cis or ftm, if you are dressing in drag then you are a drag queen...end of story...drag queens are catty so of course some might give an ftm grief for doing drag, but I know others would be more than supportive ...there is one really well known drag queen who is ftm, his name is adrian dalton, if you google that or type it in youtube you should find some of his shows and lots of videos :)...he is kinda my idol, an amazing guy, he has had bottom surgery but he was doin drag before he did that and I definitely do not see that as some kinda prerequisite to do doing drag, u can do it post T pre T, post top surgery, pre top surgery etc...we identify as men so dressing in women clothes is drag and is fabulous :)
Quote from: GentlemanRDP on March 01, 2012, 02:34:18 PM
Awesome!
I have to ask,
Mind sharing your drag name?
If you had one that time of course?
I really don't remember. It was 7 years ago.
@lilacwoman Don't fix what isn't broken? Ehr?
Quote from: lilacwoman on March 01, 2012, 02:43:33 PM
don't fix what isn't broken. its the maleness of the drag queens that is the attraction.
I would have to disagree I think it is the femininity that the drag queens can show through make up and gestures that is the attraction, plus the performances as well....
Quote from: lilacwoman on March 01, 2012, 02:43:33 PM
don't fix what isn't broken. its the maleness of the drag queens that is the attraction.
And now you've just turned into a troll. Good job.
Quote from: onep1ece7 on March 01, 2012, 02:48:45 PM
doesnt matter if cis or ftm, if you are dressing in drag then you are a drag queen...end of story...drag queens are catty so of course some might give an ftm grief for doing drag, but I know others would be more than supportive ...there is one really well known drag queen who is ftm, his name is adrian dalton, if you google that or type it in youtube you should find some of his shows and lots of videos :)...he is kinda my idol, an amazing guy, he has had bottom surgery but he was doin drag before he did that and I definitely do not see that as some kinda prerequisite to do doing drag, u can do it post T pre T, post top surgery, pre top surgery etc...we identify as men so dressing in women clothes is drag and is fabulous :)
I have heard of him!
He's amazing! Thanks for mentioning him here!
Quote from: JoeyD on March 01, 2012, 02:53:57 PM
Have I made it obvious yet.
Joey, can I be your number one fan?
Quote from: GentlemanRDP on March 01, 2012, 02:52:46 PM
I have heard of him!
He's amazing! Thanks for mentioning him here!
you're welcome....there is a femmeftm tumblr that has a bunch of ftm drag queens too , that is where I first saw him :p
Quote from: JoeyD on March 01, 2012, 02:59:53 PM
Of course :D
Then I'm 1.5 because I refuse to be #2!
Lets try to be careful in our responses. Everyone is allowed their opinion, we don't have to agree and we can say so, but politely.
What I did was pretty sneaky.
ohoho.
Latrice Royale - The Shade of It All (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTtSu2Fld5U&list=HL1330635753&feature=mh_lolz#)
also,
Quote from: GentlemanRDP on March 01, 2012, 03:00:49 PM
Then I'm 1.5 because I refuse to be #2!
You go can ahead of Jason. :)
we won't tell him though.
Quote from: JoeyD on March 01, 2012, 03:05:31 PM
also,
You go can ahead of Jason. :)
we won't tell him though.
How dare you.
:icon_surprised:
I have seen one, on the net, so they do exist.
But I also think the gender-bending transexuals have more to deal with than the steryotypes.
Quote from: lilacwoman on March 01, 2012, 02:43:33 PM
don't fix what isn't broken. its the maleness of the drag queens that is the attraction.
So then genitals have nothing to do with it.
Gyah, Latrice! :3
She's so amazing, I just wanna hug her >w<
Bah, I'm putty when it comes to queens >__O;;
Fufufuuu, I win Jason xD
What exactly IS a real drag queen? Looks like you can just make your own definition and go with it.
Quote from: Arch on March 01, 2012, 04:00:09 PM
What exactly IS a real drag queen? Looks like you can just make your own definition and go with it.
That's why Real is like 'This,' Like quotes, because it's relative ._.;
Quote from: GentlemanRDP on March 01, 2012, 01:44:00 PM
Well, I don't want to be on the show xD
I just love to watch it <3 And consider it a big inspiration.
Also...I just found,
Apparently, there are 'Bio-queens' out there,
Women born as women, who live as women, and who perform as queens.
So apparently genitalia doesn't have anything to do with it after all.
Cool :3
Here I come wig shop!
Oh yes, female-female impersonators, as John Waters calls them :-)
Quote from: Arch on March 01, 2012, 04:00:09 PM
What exactly IS a real drag queen? Looks like you can just make your own definition and go with it.
just like "what is a real transsexual." i don't know why people need to care so much what someone else does unless they feel the need to verify themselves in some way.
I agree with you FullMoon. We need to quit trying to classify ourselves.
Ask Misty: Female 2 Male Transexual Dresses in Drag (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn5LYO8RmQM&feature=channel#)
Look what I found!
Also, the reason why she's saying "she" is because she's reffering to him in his female persona. So she's using the correct pronouns.
Yep. JAC doesn't (that I've heard him say) use the term 'drag queen' to describe his performances, but he's a transguy and does femme drag.
http://femmeftm.tumblr.com/post/15055271203/me-midwest-genderqueer-performing-gender->-bleeped-<- (http://femmeftm.tumblr.com/post/15055271203/me-midwest-genderqueer-performing-gender-%3E-bleeped-%3C-)
He's got his own drag troupe, but he's toured nationally with other drag troupes and produced big drag shows as well. :)
Quote from: lilacwoman on March 01, 2012, 02:43:33 PM
don't fix what isn't broken. its the maleness of the drag queens that is the attraction.
I have plenty maleness. If I were to go out in drag, I would be in drag same as any guy. Passing is probably a prerequisite to be taken seriously, but other than that I'm not sure what you're getting at.
I've a lot of friends in the Drag scene, and honestly you can do whatever you want. Drag Queens are all for breaking gender boundaries from what I can tell, and there are biological women who do Drag shows as Queens, and biological men that do shows as Kings, all of that. It's not really about sex, or sexual appeal, it's about going out and flaunting what you have.
I see no reason a trans guy can't do drag..
Quote from: lilacwoman on March 01, 2012, 02:05:13 PM
Have a good viewing of Priscilla Queen of the Desert - either the film or the stage play and see how maleness is essnetial in a drag queen.
One of the main characters in Priscilla, Bernadette, is a post-op trans woman.. She's based on Carlotta, who is fairly well known here in Australia.. And the 2 gay guys are fairly fem gay boys..
The attraction is in how well a man can act and look like a diva.
FTM's are men (or boys) just as MTF are women.
If it trips your trigger, as an FTM, to be a drag queen and
you can pull it off, then knock yourself out, kiddo.
First, drag is a show, shows are about performing, so the prime determent is not how male or female or how much meat your swinging (or not) between your legs, but how entertaining you are (and almost everyone thinks they are entertaining) and how entertaining other people find you (a much, much rarer commodity).
WbW who do drag (at least in SF) are called Faux Queens, and one of them became rather famous going from doing a gig at ->-bleeped-<-shack to being part of the Scissor Sisters and now is doing some Broadway/Off-Broadway musical based on Tales of the City. There are lots of FtMs who do drag as guys, Drag Kings - Elvis, Angus from AC/DC, and Country Singers seem popular.
Two kinds of shows - the MilliVanillie lip-syncing stuck-in-the-corner of some dive bar shows, and the more mainline, up-town shows where the performers do their own vocals. And both are fine, you just need to know which one you are going for. The second though is very, very hard to do.
Oh yeah, how good do you wear the brown lipstick? Because I'm guessing that there are more people who want to do drag than there are slots in the week for performers, which means someone is making decisions about who is - and who is not - performing. And I've yet to encounter a drag show without a really, really super high level of internal bitchiness. It's a show full of people who've always wanted to be a Diva, and now they are getting their chance - and you don't want to be part of that performance, trust me. So for every show there is one big huge ass (usually literally) you're going to have to kiss, and kiss well before you get to walk on that stage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Matronic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Matronic)
Quote from: lilacwoman on March 01, 2012, 01:08:20 PM
its essential for adrag queen to hav male genitals as that is their attraction to their core audience so without the genitals you won't be taken serisouly as a DQ but may find work in burlesque
There are post ops who still do drag queen....so your theory is kinda untrue there
you won't be taken serisouly as a DQ
You must admit that's a pretty funny line.
/ps - you won't be taken seriously if you use the word and can't spell it.
Quote from: tekla on March 12, 2012, 08:55:56 AM
you won't be taken serisouly as a DQ
You must admit that's a pretty funny line.
/ps - you won't be taken seriously if you use the word and can't spell it.
Made my day lol
I've never seen an FTM drag queen but I don't see why not.
Quote from: stiltsk on March 12, 2012, 09:12:30 AM
Made my day lol
I agree.
Thank you for that, Annah.
:)