I stumbled upon this article. What are your thoughts?
http://www.annelawrence.com/desire_for_sr_a_mental_disorder.html (http://www.annelawrence.com/desire_for_sr_a_mental_disorder.html)
Anne Lawrence material?
Really?
My thoughts are that the harder the categorization and internal dividing/labeling efforts are the harder it is to parse meaningful, helpful data and information from psuedo-scientific ->-bleeped-<-try promulgated by self-agrandizing attention whores in the medical community.
But, that might be too wordy...
-Miki
Note that most of the references in her paper are either old outdated papers or papers authored by other descredited individuals: Blanchard, Money, etc.
Quote from: peky on March 23, 2012, 04:12:29 PM
Note that most of the references in her paper are either old outdated papers or papers authored by other descredited individuals: Blanchard, Money, etc.
Completely off topic, but I wanted to complement you on your profile picture. You do not look 51 at all and you especially don't look like someone who transitioned later in life.
Note that in her most recent peer-review publicastion she tones down her rethoric. However, her and blanchard ->-bleeped-<- is so discredited that NIMH is not funding such as research anymore; and thus her abstract (below) claiming the need for more resarch.
Adv Psychosom Med. 2011;31:135-48. Epub 2011 Oct 10.
->-bleeped-<-: an underappreciated paraphilia.
Lawrence AA.
Source
Department of Psychology, University of Lethbridge, Lethbridge, Alta., Canada. alawrence@mindspring.com
Abstract
->-bleeped-<- is defined as a male's propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female. It is the paraphilia that is theorized to underlie transvestism and some forms of male-to-female (MtF) transsexualism. ->-bleeped-<- encompasses sexual arousal with cross-dressing and cross-gender expression that does not involve women's clothing per se. The concept of ->-bleeped-<- defines a typology of MtF transsexualism and offers a theory of motivation for one type of MtF transsexualism. ->-bleeped-<- resembles a sexual orientation in that it involves elements of idealization and attachment as well as erotic desire. Nearly 3% of men in Western countries may experience ->-bleeped-<-; its most severe manifestation, MtF transsexualism, is rare but increasing in prevalence. Some theorists and clinicians reject the transsexual typology and theory of motivation derived from ->-bleeped-<-; their objections suggest a need for additional research. The concept of ->-bleeped-<- can assist clinicians in understanding some otherwise puzzling manifestations of nonhomosexual MtF transsexualism. ->-bleeped-<- exemplifies an unusual paraphilic category called 'erotic target identity inversions', in which men desire to impersonate or turn their bodies into facsimiles of the persons or things to which they are sexually attracted.
Moderators please, stop this nonsense spreading lol
The only one disturbed here is Anne Lawrence and some of her followers
Quote from: jdinatale on March 23, 2012, 04:16:22 PM
Completely off topic, but I wanted to complement you on your profile picture. You do not look 51 at all and you especially don't look like someone who transitioned later in life.
Well, thank you !!!
Yeah, 2 years in spiro 6 months in estro.
Thoughts..
We need more academic papers written by transsexuals. Especially by those who bother to do their own research :)
Hah! Well, isn't this a pleasant surprise, I was reading up on this earlier. I'm schizoid, and I was curious as to whether or not it could have caused my gender identity conundrum, or if the conundrum could have cause the PD (personality disorder). So I did a little poking about and found this:
http://boa.unimib.it/bitstream/10281/7081/2/Prevalence_of_Axis_II_disorders.pdf (http://boa.unimib.it/bitstream/10281/7081/2/Prevalence_of_Axis_II_disorders.pdf)
The short of it is "Finally, no differences emerged in the prevalence of any PDs or in the mean number of PD diagnostic criteria endorsed by
MtF and FtM transsexuals."
So nyah nyah nyah to whatsername who thinks we're all crazy.
As others have suggested before the OP may be trolling. Pretty much every thread posted/started by this person is about a very polarizing topic (and in fact THIS topic). This paper was mentioned in one of the OP's earlier posts so it is NOT new to the OP, so you can draw your own conclusions.
Anne has some personal problems. I met her at SCATL conference where she first promoted her atuogynophila papers and then she tried to get with me intimately but i rebuked her so she got mad. She tries to get with lots of sisters and really needs to get out of the psychological paper writing business. I told her transitioning made me get away from being sexual not what she proclaimed wanting to be more sexual. She is lost.
Quote from: Sweet Blue Girl on March 23, 2012, 04:36:28 PM
Moderators please, stop this nonsense spreading lol
The only one disturbed here is Anne Lawrence and some of her followers
I respectfully disagree with you.
I don't buy into the Lawrence dogma, but the issues are worth discussion. If only to be refuted. It is educational.
And to muddy the water here, almost every MtF who desires SRS/GRS/GCS first seeks out a diagnosis of "Gender Identity
Disorder"
Quote from: Jeneva on March 23, 2012, 07:40:38 PM
As others have suggested before the OP may be trolling. Pretty much every thread posted/started by this person is about a very polarizing topic (and in fact THIS topic). This paper was mentioned in one of the OP's earlier posts so it is NOT new to the OP, so you can draw your own conclusions.
Is this site designed to provide support and education, or is it a bastion of intolerance?
Quote from: jdinatale on March 23, 2012, 03:32:13 PM
I stumbled upon this article. What are your thoughts?
http://www.annelawrence.com/desire_for_sr_a_mental_disorder.html (http://www.annelawrence.com/desire_for_sr_a_mental_disorder.html)
my thoughts? It comes from Anne Lawrence....a person who got their medical license investigated and taken away from having erotic confessions at staring at girls' (minors and adults) vaginas.
So yeah. I don't take anything from her sight seriously.
Quote from: Jeneva on March 23, 2012, 07:40:38 PM
As others have suggested before the OP may be trolling. Pretty much every thread posted/started by this person is about a very polarizing topic (and in fact THIS topic). This paper was mentioned in one of the OP's earlier posts so it is NOT new to the OP, so you can draw your own conclusions.
Ive thought this months ago.
JD posts the same things (same issues, same controversies) once every 3 weeks.
JD posted this exact topic back in January and in February. JD also posted about having a mormon therapist, talked about how bad the situation is, then reposts 3 weeks later saying JD is going to another mormon therapist because the other one breached patient/doctor confidentiality.....even though JD expressed frustration 2 weeks in another thread prior how the mormon therapist did the very same thing when talking to JD's sister.
The cyclical pattern happens with Anne Lawrence too. Once in January, then in February, and like clockwork, in March.
Jamie, this topic has been brought up every single time by JD. Same articles, same websites and same questions. I know you don' want to think of anyone to sign up simply to divide the forums, but it does happen. And this is way too much coincidental.
That is the reason we have a psych evaluate us before progressing to HRT etc. What people want is not neccessarily what they need. And certainly not what they are going to get.
Karen.
JD postings, as cyclical or repetitious as they may be, do represent a cry for help. Nobody better than ourselves know that what JD is experiencing is not rare or alien to many of us. We have hear over and over how one person started with an occasional CD, progressing into full TV, and finally reaching an overt TS stage. For others the a full blown TS manifest early in live.
From JD postings I gather that his religious and social background and education have forged a strong sense of masculine pride and masculine oriented identification and pride. On the other hand he no doubt has a form of GID, and the clash of them have JD in pain and anguish. JD is looking for a solution and explanation to his/her situation. In a way the ->-bleeped-<- -with its potential to offer a cure as it just a paraphyllia- can be attractive solution.
I for one would like to extend my support to JD and I do welcome his/her postings, and I do not think he/she is a troll.
Courage JD
Yes. Any man who goes through SRS to create a neo-vagina needs to get his head seen to. He's seriously confused. I agree.
Quote from: Jamie D on March 23, 2012, 10:35:11 PM
Is this site designed to provide support and education, or is it a bastion of intolerance?
Ok, I'll admit I'm very intolerant to tearing apart our community with arbitrary labels. We HAVE to stand together to have a chance at real rights.
Dividing and isolating and "grading" people doesn't provide support or education.
Quote from: peky on March 24, 2012, 10:10:32 AM
JD postings, as cyclical or repetitious as they may be, do represent a cry for help.
I appreciate your opinion but I have to disagree.
Quote from: Jeneva on March 24, 2012, 10:25:25 AM
Ok, I'll admit I'm very intolerant to tearing apart our community with arbitrary labels. We HAVE to stand together to have a chance at real rights.
Dividing and isolating and "grading" people doesn't provide support or education.
All labels are arbitrary. Bad ideas end up in the trash heap of history, but not without discussion and debate.
Quote from: Jamie D on March 24, 2012, 01:31:49 PM
All labels are arbitrary. Bad ideas end up in the trash heap of history, but not without discussion and debate.
The problem is that HSTS/->-bleeped-<- ASSIGN labels to people.
We should only have to accept labels that we choose for ourselves.
There is a reason that none of our gender therapists use the HSTS/->-bleeped-<- standards and that is because they are ALREADY in the trash heap.
Quote from: peky on March 24, 2012, 10:10:32 AM
JD postings, as cyclical or repetitious as they may be, do represent a cry for help. Nobody better than ourselves know that what JD is experiencing is not rare or alien to many of us. We have hear over and over how one person started with an occasional CD, progressing into full TV, and finally reaching an overt TS stage. For others the a full blown TS manifest early in live.
From JD postings I gather that his religious and social background and education have forged a strong sense of masculine pride and masculine oriented identification and pride. On the other hand he no doubt has a form of GID, and the clash of them have JD in pain and anguish. JD is looking for a solution and explanation to his/her situation. In a way the ->-bleeped-<- -with its potential to offer a cure as it just a paraphyllia- can be attractive solution.
I for one would like to extend my support to JD and I do welcome his/her postings, and I do not think he/she is a troll.
Courage JD
Jd repeatedly posts much the same thing and has been told many, many times to seek help with a reputable gender therapist, both here and at other sites. This is advice that JD has repeatedly ignored and has continued to see sub-par (being nice) therapists about the issues they are having.. If JD will not help JD, is there really any point to us trying?
Quote from: kelly_aus on March 24, 2012, 05:35:58 PM
Jd repeatedly posts much the same thing and has been told many, many times to seek help with a reputable gender therapist, both here and at other sites. This is advice that JD has repeatedly ignored and has continued to see sub-par (being nice) therapists about the issues they are having.. If JD will not help JD, is there really any point to us trying?
I understand! What a pitty he/she disregards good advice.
google his user name. He/she's been to dozens of sights and asks the same exact questions as she/he does here...even on gaming forums. Hell, even on the gaming forums they have given him some good advice....the exact mirrored type advice we have given him/her here.
But JD still continues to post. He/she'll post the questions at dozens of sights but will never read the responses and take them to heart.
I get suspicious of that.
Quote from: Annah on March 24, 2012, 06:41:22 PM
google his user name. He/she's been to dozens of sights and asks the same exact questions as she/he does here...even on gaming forums. Hell, even on the gaming forums they have given him some good advice....the exact mirrored type advice we have given him/her here.
But JD still continues to post. He/she'll post the questions at dozens of sights but will never read the responses and take them to heart.
I get suspicious of that.
I do not disagree with your post and your feelings, yet I cannot help but feel compassion for his/her tormented soul.
Except I have finally started to see a gender therapist over Skype. I've already been to two sessions. I think he can really help me get to the bottom of this and he has already suggested things that other therapists have not (keeping a journal, not masturbating).
Quote from: jdinatale on March 24, 2012, 10:47:02 PM
Except I have finally started to see a gender therapist over Skype. I've already been to two sessions. I think he can really help me get to the bottom of this and he has already suggested things that other therapists have not (keeping a journal, not masturbating).
I really hope you take some of the advice you get - very often it may be something that you may not want to do, but it may be for your own good in the long term.
Otherwise you may well be the proverbial "horse that is led to water... that won't drink".
Quote from: jdinatale on March 24, 2012, 10:47:02 PM
Except I have finally started to see a gender therapist over Skype. I've already been to two sessions. I think he can really help me get to the bottom of this and he has already suggested things that other therapists have not (keeping a journal, not masturbating).
Is it another Latter Day Saint therapist or a secular therapist?
Quote from: Annah on March 25, 2012, 08:31:27 PM
Is it another Latter Day Saint therapist or a secular therapist?
Secular. Although I did get another LDS therapist. Now I have three: the gender therapist, the LDS therapist, and my school therapist.
Quote from: jdinatale on March 24, 2012, 10:47:02 PM
Except I have finally started to see a gender therapist over Skype. I've already been to two sessions. I think he can really help me get to the bottom of this and he has already suggested things that other therapists have not (keeping a journal, not masturbating).
It is not easy to find a true gender therapist, even in a metropolitan area. Using an internet method may be the next best thing. I think that's a step in the right direction.
Are you open to what the GT may have to say? What if he does not support the earlier "autogynophilia" diagnosis?
For what it is worth, I suggested that JD see the therapist I went to. He is an excellent doctor, has helped over a 120 trans* peeps transition during his career, and is not a gatekeeper type.
He is also one HELLUVA a karaoke singer!
Quote from: jdinatale on March 25, 2012, 08:41:32 PM
Secular. Although I did get another LDS therapist. Now I have three: the gender therapist, the LDS therapist, and my school therapist.
Wow, you're seeing 3 therapists at the same time? Is that ethical? I would suggest just seeing one therapist, like the gender one if your gender issues are pressing you. I've been to pastoral counseling and it was very biased and anti-trans/gay. From the other posts I've read of yours, it seems as if your therapist(s) are very biased against transition. Granted, transition might not be right for you, but YOU need to make that decision, not a therapist. Especially one that thinks no one should transition and it's a sin, etc.
I couldnt comprehend seeing three therapist at the same time. Especially when one of them are going to give the opposite advice than the other. It is a nightmare in the making.
QuoteIn the United States, Canada, and much of northern Europe, most men who seek or undergo sex reassignment -- male-to-female (MtF) transsexuals -- are nonhomosexual relative to natal sex. In many or most of these persons, the desire for sex reassignment reflects a mental disorder,
OOOH - must read more ( lol )
Quote from: Annah on March 26, 2012, 12:11:17 PM
I couldnt comprehend seeing three therapist at the same time. Especially when one of them are going to give the opposite advice than the other. It is a nightmare in the making.
I am pretty sure he is seeing his church therapist to keep peace in the family. Those who have read his past posts know what a explosive situation he is in.
is he a minor? Or an adult?
Quote from: Jamie D on March 26, 2012, 01:56:42 PM
I am pretty sure he is seeing his church therapist to keep peace in the family. Those who have read his past posts know what a explosive situation he is in.
This. It gives my parents/sisters hope for them to see me seeing a LDS therapist.
Quote from: Annah on March 26, 2012, 03:26:48 PM
is he a minor? Or an adult?
I don't know where you're from, but over here, if you live in your parent's home, then you abide by their rules. If you don't like it, then you can move out. They are letting you stay in their home by their own benevolence without any real obligation, and the least you can do is respect their wishes.
Quote from: jdinatale on March 26, 2012, 04:16:48 PM
This. It gives my parents/sisters hope for them to see me seeing a LDS therapist.
I don't know where you're from, but over here, if you live in your parent's home, then you abide by their rules. If you don't like it, then you can move out. They are letting you stay in their home by their own benevolence without any real obligation, and the least you can do is respect their wishes.
Poster "Tekla" made a similar comment in another thread, concerning his father's house rules.
When I was 18, I went to college and left my parent's home. Got my degree and went out in the world. What I did is in no way saying mine is the only right way.
But when you are in your 20s and living at home and then having to conform to their religious convictions when it comes to picking out a therapist for you (a LDS therapist...which isn't there to make you feel more comfortable about yourself...but there to show that you are living a life of sin and it is their job to make you change back) is not an ideal situation.
Yes, when you live under their roof you do have to abide to their rules. I completely respect that. But there needs to be a distinction between what they want and want you need.
*************************************IMPORTANT*************************************
One biggest piece of advice I can give you is to change the username you use if you wish to go slow with this with your parents. If your parents google "jdinatale", it's going to make life a lot harder for you. You're everywhere on the internet. You have no privacy on google. And an LDS therapist will google that if they discover you use jdinatale. Im assuming your last name is DiNatale and your first name is John. I would work hard on eliminating that issue if you continue to use a religious therapist. It's just more ammunition against you.
I wont even go into the fact if I type jdinatale in google image search, there is over 42 image pages of you and many of us here at Susan's (which concerns me because of their privacy wishes). That's not good. You seriously need to fix that. I found a pic of me when I typed in your name. I find that a very troubling. (last pic on page 19 under your name). You have pics of Padme, Melody and Stephe near a pic of you with two penis ejaculating on your face at the very beginning of the image search.
If you want to have a good experience with your church therapist, I recommend getting rid of those ASAP.
Quote from: Annah on March 26, 2012, 05:38:41 PM
When I was 18, I went to college and left my parent's home. Got my degree and went out in the world. What I did is in no way saying mine is the only right way.
But when you are in your 20s and living at home and then having to conform to their religious convictions when it comes to picking out a therapist for you (a LDS therapist...which isn't there to make you feel more comfortable about yourself...but there to show that you are living a life of sin and it is their job to make you change back) is not an ideal situation.
Yes, when you live under their roof you do have to abide to their rules. I completely respect that. But there needs to be a distinction between what they want and want you need.
*************************************IMPORTANT*************************************
One biggest piece of advice I can give you is to change the username you use if you wish to go slow with this with your parents. If your parents google "jdinatale", it's going to make life a lot harder for you. You're everywhere on the internet. You have no privacy on google. And an LDS therapist will google that if they discover you use jdinatale. Im assuming your last name is DiNatale and your first name is John. I would work hard on eliminating that issue if you continue to use a religious therapist. It's just more ammunition against you.
I wont even go into the fact if I type jdinatale in google image search, there is over 42 image pages of you and many of us here at Susan's (which concerns me because of their privacy wishes). That's not good. You seriously need to fix that. I found a pic of me when I typed in your name. I find that a very troubling. (last pic on page 19 under your name). You have pics of Padme, Melody and Stephe near a pic of you with two penis ejaculating on your face at the very beginning of the image search.
If you want to have a good experience with your church therapist, I recommend getting rid of those ASAP.
Good idea. I changed my username. Thanks for the tip. I have no idea why your picture or any other person shows up when you google that.
i think it was because you used our pics in various quotes that had your user name attached.
If you still can, I would also see if you can go to the other websites you were part of and change those usernames too.....or at least the TG sites.
Don't give anyone a hands up over you.
I would also try to go back to the source pages and delete those questionable pics floating out there too. That could come back to haunt you someday when you apply for jobs, etc.
Quote from: Annah on March 26, 2012, 10:09:33 PM
i think it was because you used our pics in various quotes that had your user name attached.
If you still can, I would also see if you can go to the other websites you were part of and change those usernames too.....or at least the TG sites.
Don't give anyone a hands up over you.
I would also try to go back to the source pages and delete those questionable pics floating out there too. That could come back to haunt you someday when you apply for jobs, etc.
All good ideas, thanks. I cleaned out my photobucket account just now.
Well, I find this topic very interesting because when I was 14 and caught crossdressing I was put in a mental institution for six weeks.
At that time (1972) I know that DSM-II still listed homosexuality as a mental disorder, and may have done so for gender dysphoria
(or whatever term they may have coined for it then). Of course, I wasn't "mentally ill" when I was in there. That happened long afterwards... ;)
Quote from: Annah on March 26, 2012, 05:38:41 PM
I wont even go into the fact if I type xxxxx in google image search, there is over 42 image pages of you and many of us here at Susan's (which concerns me because of their privacy wishes). That's not good.
I agree. I do not mind posting under my name because it is quite common, but recently I had an incident concerning information that I published being used to track me and I have gone through all the forums I was a member of and removed every posting I can get my hands on both here at Susans and in other places.
The picture I used for an avatar here is over a year old and my appearance has changed since then so I am not worried about it, but I will be posting less and preferably only in private areas for a while to come.
B.
Quote from: Annah on March 26, 2012, 05:38:41 PM
When I was 18, I went to college and left my parent's home. Got my degree and went out in the world. What I did is in no way saying mine is the only right way.
But when you are in your 20s and living at home and then having to conform to their religious convictions when it comes to picking out a therapist for you (a LDS therapist...which isn't there to make you feel more comfortable about yourself...but there to show that you are living a life of sin and it is their job to make you change back) is not an ideal situation.
Yes, when you live under their roof you do have to abide to their rules. I completely respect that. But there needs to be a distinction between what they want and want you need.
+1 As long as they are "under their parents care" this situation is not likely to get better. Being part of the LDS would be a total nightmare for a transgendered person. I too left home as soon as a graduated high school and worked my way thru 2 years of trade school so I could live my own life.
Quote from: Annah on March 26, 2012, 10:09:33 PM
i think it was because you used our pics in various quotes that had your user name attached.
If you still can, I would also see if you can go to the other websites you were part of and change those usernames too.....or at least the TG sites.
Don't give anyone a hands up over you.
I would also try to go back to the source pages and delete those questionable pics floating out there too. That could come back to haunt you someday when you apply for jobs, etc.
The fact that pictures can be copied or downloaded and reposted was so troubling to me that I remove mine, and I do not think that I will post it again.