I don't know why but Jail/Prison is freaking me out right now.
I'm not a bad kid, VERY far from it. But like I wonder what if something happens, an accident or something.
I'm really worried. I don't know but for whatever damn reason it's been bothering me bad for a couple days now.
Argh. >.<
My girlfriend says I think too much. v_v
prisons are hell out creepy, agree.
But if your really done nothing wrong then you shouldnt worry too much,
accident isnt that common, if, if something can always happent and we can use all our life worry about something who would never happent.
Dont worry about it until it actually happens ;) I always find myself worry about things that never end up happening, or they turn out different for the better!
I wish I could tell you that everything will be 100 percent alright if you just live by the book and follow all the rules but that's lying. Corruption within the system and accidents that results in incarcerations happen more than people would like to think.
As a criminal justice major my best advice to you is to inform yourself of all your local rules and regulations and rights. Many people are uninformed and have their rights violated without evening knowing it. Know what the police can and can not do according to your rights. They may do it anyway but it's best to be prepared so you can call them out on it when the time comes.
I wish I knew what to tell you concerning accidents but just try not to put yourself in a compromising position if you can help it.
They'll just stick you in solitary so no one can hurt you
Be good!
Quote from: Geek on March 27, 2012, 03:53:21 AM
They'll just stick you in solitary so no one can hurt you
Be good!
Really? I guess all those rape statistics mean nothing when it comes to TS in prison.
Yes, Be Good.
Don't fret too much. If a cop tries to arrest you, deny you don't understand the rights read to you (you're allowed to deny this , at least according to the ex who graduated with a degree in Criminal Justice) which means they can't arrest you plus it would annoy the hell out of them, though I'm sure they'll come up with something to arrest you anyway. Also, clam up and say you want a lawyer if they do arrest you even if you aren't guilty.
Quote from: Gretchen on March 27, 2012, 05:49:13 AM
Really? I guess all those rape statistics mean nothing when it comes to TS in prison.
Yes, Be Good.
Well yeah, that's just what I've heard though, can't say I've been locked up. It's probably different in different countries too, but I can't imagine anyone thinking it would be safe to put any TG person in with the general pop, people get raped in there all the time, imagine what would happen if they found out you had a vagina.
It can happen. My dad just got out of six years in a state prison because some girl he had a relationship with 20 years ago got the idea in her head that she could get some money from him and accused him of raping her way back then. She tried to blackmail him saying if he gave her all this money, she'd drop the charges, but we wouldn't give it to her. And in most places, if a female says a male raped her, it doesn't matter if it's true or not, the jury always believes the girl.
It's also why I want to get out of classroom teaching. I know it doesn't happen often, but it's happening more and more that teachers, especially male teachers, get accused of stuff like that whether it's true or not. And having watched my own father's life ruined by it, I'm a bit more paranoid about stuff like that than most people. I don't want to be a male teacher in an elementary classroom and I DEFINITELY don't want any parents to find out I'm transgender because that could start a LOT of ->-bleeped-<- with people thinking I'm some pervert.
Most prisons do segregate prisoners, though. For instance, my dad was a model prisoner who never hurt anyone and so he was put in a cell block with other model prisoners. The idiots who would go around hurting people were all put together, so he wasn't really worried about it.
Don't do anything to get yourself put in prison, but don't kid yourself that just by being a law abiding citizen you won't end up in prison anyway. But most prisons aren't as bad as the big federal scary places you see on TV. Most prisoners just want to serve their time and most prisons segregate those who don't. Most will also segregate you if you think you're in danger from being trans. Also, if you haven't had surgery yet, you'd go to a female prison.
If you live in an area where people commit worse crimes there are more chances they will get sent there than you. Kinda like when i lived in N. Calif and everybody grew pot the cops were mostly after those who tried to rob people verses the pot growers. Hey be good and live in an area where there are few cops.. I live amongst the amish and mennonites and am my moms caregiver so its pretty cool here. I barely ever see police. Don't drink and drive or do anything to get in trouble. hugs D
Quote from: Geek on March 27, 2012, 08:16:07 AM
Well yeah, that's just what I've heard though, can't say I've been locked up. It's probably different in different countries too, but I can't imagine anyone thinking it would be safe to put any TG person in with the general pop, people get raped in there all the time, imagine what would happen if they found out you had a vagina.
From what I heard, unless the sex marker on your records (various licenses, on social security, etc.) has been changed to show your true gender, then you'll be stuck going to the prison of your biological sex. I got to watch a neat documentary where there was a TS female who went by female pronouns and even a female name was placed within an all-male prison. This was because she had not even come close to transitioning and didn't have the gender marker changed on her records. What your biological sex seems to dictate what prison you're sent to.
Quote from: Lynn Gabriel on March 27, 2012, 02:32:32 PM
From what I heard, unless the sex marker on your records (various licenses, on social security, etc.) has been changed to show your true gender, then you'll be stuck going to the prison of your biological sex. I got to watch a neat documentary where there was a TS female who went by female pronouns and even a female name was placed within an all-male prison. This was because she had not even come close to transitioning and didn't have the gender marker changed on her records. What your biological sex seems to dictate what prison you're to.
Pretty much.
Quote from: Lynn Gabriel on March 27, 2012, 08:00:11 AM
Don't fret too much. Also, clam up and say you want a lawyer if they do arrest you even if you aren't guilty.
Yup pretty much this. Time can be your best buddy and stalling is good. You don't have to be charged with anything to be arrested at least in the states.
Quote from: Lynn Gabriel on March 27, 2012, 08:00:11 AM
Don't fret too much. If a cop tries to arrest you, deny you don't understand the rights read to you (you're allowed to deny this , at least according to the ex who graduated with a degree in Criminal Justice) which means they can't arrest you plus it would annoy the hell out of them, though I'm sure they'll come up with something to arrest you anyway. Also, clam up and say you want a lawyer if they do arrest you even if you aren't guilty.
I'm sorry, but that's not true. You don't have to be read the Miranda rights at your arrest. They must be read before interrogation though. It doesn't have to take place immediately after your arrest. So they could arrest you without reading the Miranda rights and/or without your understanding of them. They just can't ask you questions.
Quote from: Adio on March 27, 2012, 03:54:26 PM
I'm sorry, but that's not true. You don't have to be read the Miranda rights at your arrest. They must be read before interrogation though. It doesn't have to take place immediately after your arrest. So they could arrest you without reading the Miranda rights and/or without your understanding of them. They just can't ask you questions.
No the police cannot arrest you without reading your Miranda rights. This is according to the book "Criminal Procedure From First Contact To Appeal Fourth Edition" by John L Worrall on page 256. I will quote the following passage below from this book:
"Many people believe that Miranda rights apply whenever the police begin to question a person. This is not the case; if a person being question is not in custody, Miranda rights do not apply. Simple police questioning, or even a full-blown interrogation, is not enough to trigger the protections afforded by the Fifth Amendment. The person subjected to such questioning must be in police custody.
What is custody?
The Court announced that Miranda applies when "a person has been taken into custody or otherwise deprived of his freedom of action in any significant way." An arrest is a clear-cut case of police custody but what about a lesser intrusion? Unfortuantely, there is no easy answer to this question. Instead, the courts have chosen to focus on the circumstances surrounding each individual case. The Court has stated, however, that "the only relevant inquiry {in analyzing the custody issue} is how a reasonable man in the suspect's position would have understood his situation" (Berkemer v. McCarty, 468 U.S. 420 [1984], p. 442)."
I read and typed exactly from the book and typed it verbatim and I have attached a visual reference of the book.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.tinypic.com%2Fe5ipz8.jpg&hash=1a0551e7bc571b83030fcc49a8cb2f2fd6920ed9)
Just get sent to a women's prison and be a stud. I watched this reality show and they followed a stud, they weren't trans. It didn't seem that bad at all, they had it pretty good. Really the only thing bad that happened was when her jealous girlfriends stirred up drama that got her sent to solitary. Or getting caught having sex.
Quote from: Sharky on March 27, 2012, 06:07:22 PM
Just get sent to a women's prison and be a stud. I watched this reality show and they followed a stud, they weren't trans. It didn't seem that bad at all, they had it pretty good. Really the only thing bad that happened was when her jealous girlfriends stirred up drama that got her sent to solitary. Or getting caught having sex.
What was the name of the documentary you watched? It sounds like the same one I watched.
Quote from: Lynn Gabriel on March 27, 2012, 06:14:56 PM
What was the name of the documentary you watched? It sounds like the same one I watched.
I don't remember.
Quote from: Malachite on March 27, 2012, 04:23:46 PM
No the police cannot arrest you without reading your Miranda rights. This is according to the book "Criminal Procedure From First Contact To Appeal Fourth Edition" by John L Worrall on page 256. I will quote the following passage below from this book:
"Many people believe that Miranda rights apply whenever the police begin to question a person. This is not the case; if a person being question is not in custody, Miranda rights do not apply. Simple police questioning, or even a full-blown interrogation, is not enough to trigger the protections afforded by the Fifth Amendment. The person subjected to such questioning must be in police custody.
What is custody? The Court announced that Miranda applies when "a person has been taken into custody or otherwise deprived of his freedom of action in any significant way." An arrest is a clear-cut case of police custody but what about a lesser intrusion? Unfortuantely, there is no easy answer to this question. Instead, the courts have chosen to focus on the circumstances surrounding each individual case. The Court has stated, however, that "the only relevant inquiry {in analyzing the custody issue} is how a reasonable man in the suspect's position would have understood his situation" (Berkemer v. McCarty, 468 U.S. 420 [1984], p. 442)."
I read and typed exactly from the book and typed it verbatim and I have attached a visual reference of the book.
I agree with that passage. Questioning without arrest doesn't require the Miranda rights being read. Questioning after arrest (or being taken into custody) does. But the arrest itself does not trigger the Miranda rights being read. The police can arrest you without ever questioning or interrogating you.
Quote from: Geek on March 27, 2012, 08:16:07 AM
Well yeah, that's just what I've heard though, can't say I've been locked up. It's probably different in different countries too, but I can't imagine anyone thinking it would be safe to put any TG person in with the general pop, people get raped in there all the time, imagine what would happen if they found out you had a vagina.
It probably depends on how long you are there. I spent the night in jail about 8 years ago and they ended up putting me in solitary. At first they put me in the mens holding cell, then someone realized that probably wasn't a good idea and moved me to a womens holding cell until I was processed.
Quote from: Jayr on March 27, 2012, 03:24:41 AM
I don't know why but Jail/Prison is freaking me out right now.
I'm not a bad kid, VERY far from it. But like I wonder what if something happens, an accident or something.
I'm really worried. I don't know but for whatever damn reason it's been bothering me bad for a couple days now.
Argh. >.<
My girlfriend says I think too much. v_v
your girlfriend is right, you're thinking too much. you wouldn't go to jail for an accident, you would go to the hospital. you're not going to jail. you only need to fear rational fear.
Jail isn't a great place. Breeds stronger criminals and whatnot. But to be honest? You might be over-thinking things here. It's good to know your rights and be prepared for an emergency, but there's also a line one must draw. Be prepared for most emergencies, know your rights and how to handle a situation, but don't let it dig into your daily life. Unless you're doing something pretty heavy(I'm thinking assault, theft, drug trafficking, abuse, arson, etc), you're not likely to go to jail. Even if you're suspected of something, it's pretty hard to actually throw you in prison.
Quote from: Lynn Gabriel on March 27, 2012, 02:32:32 PM
From what I heard, unless the sex marker on your records (various licenses, on social security, etc.) has been changed to show your true gender, then you'll be stuck going to the prison of your biological sex. I got to watch a neat documentary where there was a TS female who went by female pronouns and even a female name was placed within an all-male prison. This was because she had not even come close to transitioning and didn't have the gender marker changed on her records. What your biological sex seems to dictate what prison you're sent to.
I once knew a trans woman who worked in a prison installing some sort of electronic equipment, and she elaborated on this. I saved it to a Word document, and this is what she said:
"
My job often requires a lot of one-on-one time with either the person in charge of the facility or someone very high up in the chain of command, and I always ask about their policy for dealing with transsexual inmates and there are very few written rules for dealing with the LGBTQ community. So basically they just do whatever they want in most cases. I've seen MTF's housed in female housing and male housing same with FTM's. The ideal situation for everyone is to house transsexual people in administrative segregation and a lot of facilities do that, however I have spoken to some administrators who come right out and say they house them in general population of their birth sex strictly for spite and because they can. This only leads to abuse and rape. Take a look at me and imagine what would happen if I were placed in 20ft by 20ft concrete room with 50 male inmates and two correctional officers who could care less about my safety. Furthermore most trans people in the correctional system are there due to minor offenses. Sure we are just like everyone else so some deserve 100% to be locked up, however judges love to throw the book at trans offenders to punish us for our lifestyle, when an average person would get a fine and some community service we get jailed. Most of the time first offenders can plea bargain a felony down to a misdemeanor but most prosecuting attorneys don't want to work out a deal with us.
Most states have no official or enforced policy on dealing with trans inmates and this needs to change."
prison sorting is by genitals so unless you get bottom surgery you are going to a female prison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oEhwyKjcAw&context=C42ca238ADvjVQa1PpcFMhvVj4uq5MJOZS48h3f8HjjPhR_s9G5-8= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oEhwyKjcAw&context=C42ca238ADvjVQa1PpcFMhvVj4uq5MJOZS48h3f8HjjPhR_s9G5-8=)
Rape in prison, at least federal prison, is very very rare.
I know this because I am part of a national organization that visits federal prisoners and I attend national conferences with other prison visitors.
Collectively we've spent time talking to thousands of prisoners and have had hard core convicts with many years in different prisons telling of their experience.
Now, consensual sex does happen. There are plenty of "volunteers". Even then, it's very hard to find a private moment for that to happen.
This is a case where what "everyone knows" is wrong.
Quote from: Gretchen on March 27, 2012, 05:49:13 AM
Really? I guess all those rape statistics mean nothing when it comes to TS in prison.
Yes, Be Good.
If you are worried about this, get a lawyer, put them on retainer, and pay them to give you the lawyer 101 lecture about how they expect you to act and what they want you to say (say nothing except 'I want to talk to my attorney') if and when you get arrested. It will provide some peace of mind at least.
If you are arrested, simple ask for a lawyer. Make those the first words out of your mouth. They are not to do anything when you ask for a lawyer.
Quote from: anibioman on March 31, 2012, 01:50:48 PM
prison sorting is by genitals so unless you get bottom surgery you are going to a female prison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oEhwyKjcAw&context=C42ca238ADvjVQa1PpcFMhvVj4uq5MJOZS48h3f8HjjPhR_s9G5-8= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oEhwyKjcAw&context=C42ca238ADvjVQa1PpcFMhvVj4uq5MJOZS48h3f8HjjPhR_s9G5-8=)
This.
Quote from: Randi on March 31, 2012, 02:27:53 PM
Rape in prison, at least federal prison, is very very rare.
I know this because I am part of a national organization that visits federal prisoners and I attend national conferences with other prison visitors.
Collectively we've spent time talking to thousands of prisoners and have had hard core convicts with many years in different prisons telling of their experience.
Now, consensual sex does happen. There are plenty of "volunteers". Even then, it's very hard to find a private moment for that to happen.
This is a case where what "everyone knows" is wrong.
Really?
The only people I know who've been raped were raped in prison.
If you are arrested, simple ask for a lawyer.
It helps to have a lawyer to ask for, public defenders are worth every penny you pay for them, which is nothing, they have no incentive. It's a lot different in that position to say "I want to talk to my lawyer" and not just "I need to talk to a lawyer." You're not going to get access to a phone to start shopping around at that point. Find a lawyer, pay them a retainer, and hope you'll never need to make that call.
Quote from: Geek on March 27, 2012, 03:53:21 AM
They'll just stick you in solitary so no one can hurt you
Be good!
Well, so none of the
prisoners can hurt you. I know this from some-one I used to see occasionally at the TS/TG group where I used to live.
Quote from: tekla on March 31, 2012, 03:27:43 PM
If you are arrested, simple ask for a lawyer.
It helps to have a lawyer to ask for, public defenders are worth every penny you pay for them, which is nothing, they have no incentive. ... Find a lawyer, pay them a retainer, and hope you'll never need to make that call.
While I can't argue that relying on a public defender can end one up with some real... "nozzles", let's say, this is not a universal truth. And if you don't feel the one pulled out of a hat for you is doing their job, you have the right to request one who will. Also, I can't help but feel like you're blaming the victim if some-one can't afford a decent lawyer's retainer fees --I guess all of us on disability allowance or making minimum wage, or working our way through school, etc,... just deserve whatever we get, cos we don't have the means to pay for it? That's... kind of busted, to put it politely.
And yes, crap happens that's not your fault, no laws were broken, and you end up with charges, anyway; I ended up in court over
a panic attack --and I had a public defender who did his job, and actually got the whole thing practically thrown out of court on the grounds that it was ludicrous and shouldn't have happened.
Are you talking about a federal or state prison and not a city or county lockup or jail?
I don't doubt that rapes happen in holding tanks or jails.
Prison is a different thing. Some people are intimidated into submitting and being a sexual slave.
That's not the same as rape. It's very rare that an inmate is out of earshot of a correctional officer.
No C.O. who wants to keep his job would fail to call out the goon squad if he hears of a rape. The offender gets hauled off to Ad-Seg for months and will have a long road ahead before he re-enters the general population. Inmates quickly learn this is not something to try.
Now things may be very different in local jails or some state prisons. My only knowledge is of the the federal Bureau of Prisons.
Quote from: Sharky on March 31, 2012, 03:24:05 PM
Really?
The only people I know who've been raped were raped in prison.
but why would you get arrested? you're fearing the unknown. it's unknown for a reason, meaning it's not something that applies to you. people are trying to say if, if, if. you could drive yourself crazy with all the ifs and do everything in your power to avoid them, but you still have a problem. you could speak to this attorney, but what if he/she dies? you can do this, and then some, but what does it change?
Quote from: chipper on March 31, 2012, 11:02:35 PM
In some locales you have to be careful. When I lived in Pennsylvania I got pulled over 52 times in 1 year because I had a rainbow sticker on my car. I was once detained for 6 hours because I fit the description of a juvenile male vandalizing Christmas decorations – no decoration were actually harmed, the cops in Pennsylvania just like to mess with you... so I moved.
My family is still in Pennsylvania so I occasionally return to the Keystone State... during a visit last year I was pulled over for driving with a burnt headlight. The officer who pulled me over told me he smelted alcohol (I don't touch that ->-bleeped-<-)... I passed a field sobriety test and breathalyzer but because the officer "smelt" alcohol, I had to get my blood tested or face a 1 year license suspension. I obviously agreed to the blood test because I had nothing to hide, or so I thought....
2 months after the blood test and my encounter with the police, I received a letter in the mail informing me of 8 bogus charges! 3 DUI's for different marijuana metabolites (processed THC, I had smoked the week prior BUT WAS NOT AND WOULD NEVER DRIVE UNDER THE INFLUENCE), possession, paraphernalia, careless driving, no headlights, and disorderly conduct.
Ultimately, after paying thousands of dollars in legal fees, everything was dropped but I had to plead guilty to the disorderly conduct charge and pay $1,600 in fines! The charges were completely fabricated, the officer didn't even search my vehicle and I was never arrested. I was required to complete a drug and alcohol assessment, which was a joke and I passed with flying colors! The therapist was busy dealing with heroin addicts on methadone and I was just some 23 year old punk who smoked weed a HANDFUL OF TIMES.
Seriously, be careful. I was looking at a couple years for all my charges. Had I not been able to afford my lawyer, I would have been screwed. The legal system is a joke.
Sorry for the caps and ramble- not yelling, just emphasizing- the whole situation still frustrates me!
that's where i live, but i don't do anything, so i don't get in any trouble :angel:
Quote from: chipper on April 01, 2012, 12:07:08 AM
Small world... eastern or western PA?
I moved to a mountain town in western Massachusetts, being a hermit is really the way to roll !
From the whole experience, I've learned to avoid going out after dark. People stereotype when you are young and fit a certain profile... the setting sun only exacerbates the situation.
i'm in northeast PA. i'm relatively close to new york.
Quote from: anibioman on March 31, 2012, 01:50:48 PM
prison sorting is by genitals so unless you get bottom surgery you are going to a female prison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oEhwyKjcAw&context=C42ca238ADvjVQa1PpcFMhvVj4uq5MJOZS48h3f8HjjPhR_s9G5-8= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oEhwyKjcAw&context=C42ca238ADvjVQa1PpcFMhvVj4uq5MJOZS48h3f8HjjPhR_s9G5-8=)
I'm glad he put his experience online, it's a useful resource, but what a dumbass. Top surgery is important yeah, but not so much so that you should commit forgery.
Quote from: Randi on March 31, 2012, 04:19:01 PM
Some people are intimidated into submitting and being a sexual slave.
That's not the same as rape.
Are you
serious?Quote from: FullMoon19 on March 31, 2012, 11:48:59 PM
that's where i live, but i don't do anything, so i don't get in any trouble :angel:
But that whole post you replied to was about how
you don't have to do anything, and sometimes the cops just hassle you anyway.
I'm pretty scared of prison. I'm not scared of rape or physical abuse because I'm already exposed to that kind of threat, but the knowledge that I wouldn't be recognized as male makes me tired. Just knowing other trans people are in the wrong prisons almost makes me want to give up as it is, and if it happened to me I don't know how I would take it.
Without going into detail I'll concur that prison/criminal charges happen to people far more arbitrarily than I think a lot of society realizes.
Currently there is a huge obsession with crime and punishment for it's own sake, often trumping the actual guilt or innocence of the person involved.* On top of that, there are lots and lots of people and some pretty powerful corporations that want to see people in jail, lots of them at that. These days the point is to punish and enslave, not reform and rehabilitate. See - if people get their lives back together then we can't use them as corporate slave labor in private prisons. We are growing increasingly dependent on a permanent underclass that's unable to climb out of the hole we put them in and in order to grow that permanent underclass we NEED those people to have no hope.
* - It's one of the classic signs of fascism, #12 on the list in fact.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections
But that whole post you replied to was about how you don't have to do anything, and sometimes the cops just hassle you anyway.
[/quote]
that may be true, but there is such thing as wrong place wrong time. i know it's happened to my mom before when a cop gave her a ticket with charges she didn't even committ. it was because she was parled in an area she should not have been parked in, so you have to pay attention to that kind of thing. just like how if you are involved with underage drinkers, and you weren't even drinking, there's "guilty by association," which is really inaccurate because they do not even take into consideration how responsible it was. people encouarage drinking for sure, and once kids are 18, it's just "ok." even though they really aren't legal until 21. you have to be careful with that kind of thing, because like chipper said "if you're young and fit a certain profile, people stereotype."