War on Terror
War on Afganistan
War on Iraq
and the imminent War on Iran
When does this end? When do the American people rise as one and say "NO!!!"?
This land IS our land. So? Why do we continue in our complacency to allow this land to be gripped by hands washed in the blood of America's children while their pockets are full of American's dreams?
Does an election in a year and a half ease your fear of more loss; whether that loss is financial, spiritual, or life? I can't sit idly by waiting another year and a half. I fear for the lives of all every day that this adminstration reigns its terror over the American People.
Unfortunately, war is the byproduct of when the moral people of the Earth give up their right to their life, liberty, and property. In this case, in the US, the thugs rule our land, deciding what we can do to our persons, what we can eat, what we can buy, and what we can think.
-- Bridget
Quote from: Attis on March 29, 2007, 11:49:05 PM
Unfortunately, war is the byproduct of when the moral people of the Earth give up their right to their life, liberty, and property. In this case, in the US, the thugs rule our land, deciding what we can do to our persons, what we can eat, what we can buy, and what we can think.
-- Bridget
Only because we allow it. ;)
Bingo! Actually, that's one part of Atlas Shrugged I'm reading about, how evil is often done by those who do good only because good people are often fooled by bad ideas that they have to maintain the good in the world against evil, instead of abandoning the evil to protect the good. :-3
-- Bridget
Yeah well not everyone was fooled and those that weren't were not quick enough nor had they the gumption enough to jump to the front lines until it was so late into the game much damage had already been done. But, that doesn't mean those numbers don't or wont continue to grow. The numbers aren't even really lacking in outrage. The outrage is those numbers lack in the streets.
QuoteThe outrage is those numbers lack in the streets.
Well said, well said!!! Here, here!!
Everyone is so afraid of losing what they have, that they are afraid to stand up and shout at the top of their lungs, "
No more!!!"
Just like in Nazi Germany, we are coming to a time in our her-story, where we need to look deep inside ourselves, before it is too late. It's time I dragged this out again.
"
First they came for the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew, so I didn't react.
Then they came for the communists, but I wasn't a communist, so I didn't object.
Then they came for the homosexuals, but I wasn't a homosexual, so I didn't stand up.
Then they came for the political activists, but I wasn't a political activist, so I didn't protest.
Then they came for me.....and by that time no one was left to speak out."Lately I have felt it might be time to upgrade:
"First they came for the Muslims, but I wasn't a Muslim, so I didn't react.
Then they came for the liberals, but I wasn't a liberal, so I didn't object.
Then they came for the homosexuals, but I wasn't a homosexual, so I didn't stand up.
Then they came for the gender variant, but I wasn't gender variant, so I didn't protest.
Then they came for me.....and by that time no one was left to speak out."
Thundra said, "Then they came for me.....and by that time no one was left to speak out." (That is a sick joke that made me laugh.)
TWC, war will never stop. We are in a period in which we are losing our liberty. My brother-in-law sent my family an innocent letter from Iraq. It was opened and resealed by the National Security Agency. Clearly any x-ray would show there were no dangerous materials inside. An American sending an American an innocent letter via first class mail was opened for "National Security." I thought I had paranoia!
In spite of all the wrong doings of America, I have little sympathy for a religious extremist that kills themself and innocent people.
Human beings have some serious shortcomings. I hope I can improve for my last hurray on earth.
W
Our country is over extended now in Iraq. Further commitments will require many more troops and a lot more money. Bush has no political capital to get either.
So, the house of cards is ready to collapse... or, they go to phase two and eliminate the constitution somehow. I don't see that happening very easily.
Cindi
Unfortunately war is inevitable with the current leadership of Iran. The world cannot stand still while the leadership on one country speaks of nuclear capability that would be used to wipe another nation off of the map.
Here's hoping that some sort of change takes place there on it's own rather than having to be forced.
Actually Britain is not exactly happy with Iran. Do not rule out Britain invading Iran on a limited scale and the U.S. helping the British.
If the U.S. wants to topple the Iranian government and the Syrian government it could do it with current forces.
The issue lies with securing the countries not toppling the governments.
Unfortunately the Arab nations have been fighting among themselves for centuries and when you eliminate one fanatic the next fanatic in line comes to power. Maybe spending money on educating an ignorant population might help stabilize the region? However that is probably naive.
W
The problem with education is that the fanatics are right there still, lying the whole time. As an example, there was a news story a few years back about the Koran and the Palestinians. Evidently the fringe groups pass out modified versions to the people. Of course the changes totally support their radical view and that helps recruit more fanatics to be homicide bombers and the like.
So we could go in there (or even someone else could) and the moment we do we would be labeled as liars, crusaders, etc. If that did not work then those who attended schools or accepted pamphlets would be targeted and killed. That leaves force as the only real option but if it is misapplied then we end up with a bigger mess.
I had heard that British Intelligence is speculating that the initiation of U.S. directed hostilities against Iran, will occur on or around 6 April.
I think that will do it, for America. This country's deterioration will vastly accelerate.
"The Death From Within of a Nation."
Just like so many whom have passed into history before it.
Iran announced it would release the British sailors today.
There was no doubt in the eyes of the Iranian government that Britain and the U.S. would topple the Iranian government if given a chance.
However the nuke issue is still open.
We were discussing the military and how much it has mutated over so many years and especially over the most recent years...
They've lost alot of highly experienced and competent technicians and soldiers, who were forced out by virtue of systemic harassment ["I've had ENOUGH of this."] or active campaigns to reduce personnel.
The former is the case with me [to a large degree] and many of my fellow technicians.
If 'it really hits the fan' in a major contingency, we who left the military who have much experience and skill will not be available and that could spell the difference between defeat and victory, Galatians 6:7.
"Beware of the military-industrial complex..." -- Ike Eisenhower. :3
-- Brede
as far as i know the u.s. military is the [most] professional group you will find anywhere in the world. you simply can't believe the media on all the reporting of unprofessional ism. we don't gas our own, or chop heads off, we don't fight in civilian cloths, or perform any number of the atrocities that others around the world do. yes we are killing civilians, sometimes troops make bad mistakes but that's because we are [fighting civilians not a military]. taking pictures of naked men on the floor is far from torture. these attacks on u.s. soldiers from our media are pathetic. i wish some people truly understood what's going on. >:( rant over.
Quote from: Attis on April 07, 2007, 11:41:01 AM
"Beware of the military-industrial complex..." -- Ike Eisenhower. :3
-- Brede
And we maybe got one president after him before the military and the industrial started making sweet, sweet love to each other. Nowadays they do it in public and no one cares. They just avert their eyes -- they can easily glance over to the latest sports showdown or manufactured celebrity scandal.
Though Ike said, "Beware of the military-industrial complex," I'd say that we're not looking at the snake's head: After our country has been kept in wars it didn't want in Vietnam and in Iraq, when will people rise and say:
"The president is not king. He is not "the decider."
"We the people," are.
It is time for a NATIONAL initiative process to begin. Think of the things people would NOT vote for...pork barrel spending, wars...things that prevent all of us from having a secure social security and national health system. Not to mention a flattish tax (based on income) that would have no deductions other than owning your family home and putting money into a deductable IRA. Imagine the magical U.S.A. that could be created if we spent our billions of dollars more wisely. Spending would include helping others around the world, not dropping bombs on them.
California probably would not be nearly as advanced (compared to other states) were it not for the initiative process. Yes, it's complicated and a lot of work (sometimes corporations like to propose things that will swindle people). But it's democracy at its best.
Teri Anne
Hopefully, sooner or later their abusive actions will unite the people. We are still divided in purpose. They've done an awfully good job at doing that to us.
Cindi
Quote from: Katia on April 07, 2007, 11:45:29 AM
as far as i know the u.s. military is the [most] professional group you will find anywhere in the world. you simply can't believe the media on all the reporting of unprofessional ism. we don't gas our own, or chop heads off, we don't fight in civilian cloths, or perform any number of the atrocities that others around the world do.
Katia,
Good point. My brother-in-law buys candy and toys with his own money to give to Iraqi children as he goes around Iraq. He also gives $20 bills to families that he thinks need help. He told me many Americans do this. In addition I have talked to soldiers that have told me they are building hospitals, schools, and water treatment plants in Iraq to help the people. Each coin has two sides. The U.S. government is disappointing but the former Iraqi government was without conscious.
Wendy
It'll get better.
In order to even reach crude resources in our surrounding space, we have to develop technology that surpasses a need for those resources.
Basically, by the time we're capable of reliably setting up a freight route from the asteroid belt near Mars, to Mars, to Earth, we'll be using clean propulsion technology that has no use for what we consider fuel today.
Which makes getting the materials seem kind of pointless, when we can pretty much recycle most everything we have right here on Earth.
So what's left to fuss over? I think we can all agree that there's plenty of room in the universe for everyone, and in the event that we do discover other forms of sentient life within the next few centuries... well, what would unite mankind faster? Talk about a wakeup call.
~ Blair
Quote from: Katia on April 07, 2007, 11:45:29 AM
as far as i know the u.s. military is the [most] professional group you will find anywhere in the world. you simply can't believe the media on all the reporting of unprofessional ism. we don't gas our own, or chop heads off, we don't fight in civilian cloths, or perform any number of the atrocities that others around the world do. yes we are killing civilians, sometimes troops make bad mistakes but that's because we are [fighting civilians not a military]. taking pictures of naked men on the floor is far from torture. these attacks on u.s. soldiers from our media are pathetic. i wish some people truly understood what's going on. >:( rant over.
Katia if you think that "taking pictures of naked men on the floor" is all that we have done you are sadly and sickengly mistaken and that indifference and/or ignorance is a part of the problem. UNICEF is currently investigating child rapes that took place at Abu Graib (there is video footage) and that's just a small example.
You cannot justify what we do with how their government was nor how their civilians have responded to our invasion and continued occupation of THEIR country.
The entire Iraq war is based on a lie sold to the American people by the White House Iraqi Group (made up of more than 50% of PNAC members btw) and by this administration itself.
Rant away Katia, but you need to get your facts straight. And turn your wish for understanding on yourself.
i don't know if you've noticed, but the reason keeps changing. ask [yourself], if it was about securing resources and that is a legitimate reason to fight a war, as some people do think it is i will admit, then why would bush [lie and claim] it was about wmds, getting rid of a dictator, or fighting terrorism?
i think the biggest reason for fighting the war is to [divert] taxpayer funds to united defense, halliburton, and other defense contractors and military suppliers, and [make money off of the stocks as they grow]. if they are trying to secure resources, it is only to aide in continuing our dependence on oil, foreign or domestic, by making it [feasible] not to come up with new technology just a little bit longer, so oil companies can continue to make more money before they have to invest in new technology to continue making money on transportation. there are a number of people in the iraqi government who are saying they want to privatize oil, even though it would be against the new iraqi constitution, and get [help] from the american and international corporations to get it out of the ground. i used to think it was about putting a major oil producer in turmoil to raise the price of existing oil sources, in the u.s. and saudi arabia principally, but now i think the long-term plan actually does involve securing iraqi oil for the u.s this is why they're backing the shiites more than the sunnis, because they think maybe they can beat them, and why they are uninterested in whatever turmoil the nation keeps facing as long as they can keep the oil fields safe.
Ah hell! Who's John Galt? ;)
-- Brede
To me, dropping a so-called "smart bomb" from 50,000 feet to a target where there will be "some" collateral damage is a crime.
A couple I know, good friends of mine, are U.S. patriotic and military to the core. Every generation in their family has served and I can see their point of being proud and patriotic. However, I did ask them once, "what if you were an Iraqui couple and a bomb killed your husband or wife? How would you feel about that American bomber pilot who dropped the bomb? Would you understand that, while tragic, it was intended to be "for Iraquis' better good?" If you had limited education and your husband, your wife, your son or your daughter was killed, would you understand that "these things happen?"
Or would you look to America and ask, "why did you kill the love of my life?"
America, as stated in Wendy's post, would earn far more friends with toys and candy bars. The cost of one "smart bomb" could pay for a LOT of Iraqui jobs. When you earn money and have a stake (and steak) in society, you have more of an interest in peace and cooperation.
Teri Anne
Quote from: togetherwecan on March 29, 2007, 11:44:22 PM
War on Terror
War on Afganistan
War on Iraq
and the imminent War on Iran
When does this end? When do the American people rise as one and say "NO!!!"?
This land IS our land. So? Why do we continue in our complacency to allow this land to be gripped by hands washed in the blood of America's children while their pockets are full of American's dreams?
Does an election in a year and a half ease your fear of more loss; whether that loss is financial, spiritual, or life? I can't sit idly by waiting another year and a half. I fear for the lives of all every day that this adminstration reigns its terror over the American People.
Hey TWC, you know me and my philosophies and theories.
I know you know better and this only goes to show how ingrained it is in all of us, but the acceptance of the idea of perpetual war began with the Drug War. We accept War upon our very own citizens who suffer from the HEALTH issue of drug addiction.
Prohibition never worked. It still doesn't. War is in our own streets and we do nothing to stop it. Ask these cops. They know and speak the truth. http://www.leap.cc.
The American government seems to enjoy war. When it is being waged in someone elses street, all the better.
Quote from: Katia on April 07, 2007, 11:45:29 AM
as far as i know the u.s. military is the [most] professional group you will find anywhere in the world. you simply can't believe the media on all the reporting of unprofessional ism. we don't gas our own, or chop heads off, we don't fight in civilian cloths, or perform any number of the atrocities that others around the world do. yes we are killing civilians, sometimes troops make bad mistakes but that's because we are [fighting civilians not a military]. taking pictures of naked men on the floor is far from torture. these attacks on u.s. soldiers from our media are pathetic. i wish some people truly understood what's going on. >:( rant over.
Let me see. Have you been to http://www.liveleak.com and actually watched our troops?
I have been watching for years. I don't really think
indiscriminate driveby shootings into villages whlie laughing, shooting dogs, cursing and swearing at innocent Iraqi children, is very professional. I have been watching. Some of these troops are ignorant enough to film themselves. The stuff OUR media won't show. I am not impressed with our troops and the situation we have put them in. Watch
the reality of the situation on liveleak. Screw our media. They are pathetic lapdogs, mostly. Deballed, and defanged. They don't show HALF the real stuff.
People need to put thier money where there mouth is. You like war? Think it's worth it? WATCH it then. WATCH what you support and THEN tell me about how great all these REAL bloody body parts flying around are. If you can watch the real blood and guts and still support the war then I've got a most excellent link for ya. http://www.goarmy.com/flindex.jsp
Go for it. They need ya. Backdoor drafts and all that. Go fight for my freedom. Come on, go bleed and get mangled for me. lol. I am so worried that we are all gonna be speaking Iraqi. <sarcasm>
Quote from: Wendy on April 02, 2007, 10:21:29 PM
I have little sympathy for a religious extremist that kills themself and innocent people.
W
But have you ever asked yourself what motivates them to willingly perform such desperate and despicable acts?
Yes, Yes I know: they are pushed to it by evil preachers. But still how is it that they are receptive to such warped ideology?
Would it be a lack of education? In some case that could be true, but what about the home-grown ones in Europe or America? They were educated in the Western-way, so what made them reject its values?
Would it be the lack of ideals in a dominant culture based on institutionalised and individual greed, rampant consumerism and wastefulness? A social order where a few squander the world resources when the rest of humankind try to survive on the crumbs that fall-of the table? Would it be the rejection of a social, economical and political system hell-bent on the worldwide globalisation of the capitalistic and imperialistic goals of unlimited growth and profits at any-cost?
Worldwide, everyday at prayer, Muslims turn towards Mecca and physically prostate themselves in front of God. So why should they be expected to prostate themselves in front of the Dollar, the Euro, the Yen or the Pound?
Would it have to do with the total disregard and denial from a dominant Judeo-Christian culture of any alternative views, values or inputs?
In its hay-days Islam was the most advanced and open system of belief and understanding. Islamic thinkers, scholars, artists and craftsmen contributed so much to the advancement of mathematics, philosophy, anatomy, astronomy, medicine, chemistry, architecture, engineering, metallurgy etc... At the time of the Calipha, in a truly inclusive and pluralist society, Jews, Christians and Muslims (the People of the Book) lived, worked and studied together. In contrast the Inquisition was all about the monolithic control of mind and ideas, its main aim was the elimination of any critical research and analyses. The Crusades had nothing to do with liberating the tomb of Christ, but all to do with the attempt to take over and control the trade routes to the Orient and its riches in Gems, Silk, Porcelaine, Spices and Pearls.
Of course it would take a lot of courage, humility, sacrifice and commitment to undo the injustice, heal the wrongs, and remove the causes of so much hurt, anger and despair. But no, it is so much easier to dismiss and demonise the others. It is so much easier to curtail their rights, to silence their voices and to enact emergency legislations all in the name of democracy (?!). Will we ever learn?
Having vented my spleen, it is now time to come down from the soap-box.
Hope, Light, Love & Respect
Maebh
Quote from: Maebh on April 11, 2007, 12:19:21 PM
But have you ever asked yourself what motivates them to willingly perform such desperate and despicable acts?
Would it be the lack of ideals in a dominant culture based on institutionalised and individual greed, rampant consumerism and wastefulness? A social order where a few squander the world resources when the rest of humankind try to survive on the crumbs that fall-of the table? Would it be the rejection of a social, economical and political system hell-bent on the worldwide globalisation of the capitalistic and imperialistic goals of unlimited growth and profits at any-cost?
Worldwide, everyday at prayer, Muslims turn towards Mecca and physically prostate themselves in front of God. So why should they be expected to prostate themselves in front of the Dollar, the Euro, the Yen or the Pound?
The U.S. system of capitalism clearly garners profits at any cost. The U.S. "conflict"/War with Iraq is also an economic war to secure oil for continued expansion.
The original manuscripts for Muslims, Jews, and Christians were founded on being good and you shall be rewarded. It is not to kill each other.
I happen to have a number of both Hindu friends from India and Muslim friends from Pakistan. The world is sheltered from hearing the fanatic acts of their respective religious leaders. The acts they have told me during their civil war were barbaric. I believe that each country would be willing to take tremendous casualties if it felt it could over power the other. At one time India was the seat of high culture and it no longer occupies that place. However Muslims have blown up apartment buildings several times in India and this does not even make news in the U.S. I still see power hungry religious leaders inciting their flock. I do not condone the "all righteous" U.S. and I do not condone martyrs that cowardly kill themselves and innocent people. Unless events turn for the better the Middle East will be more unstable when the U.S. leaves.
Quote from: Brooke NY on April 11, 2007, 09:40:31 AM
Quote from: togetherwecan on March 29, 2007, 11:44:22 PM
War on Terror
War on Afganistan
War on Iraq
and the imminent War on Iran
When does this end? When do the American people rise as one and say "NO!!!"?
This land IS our land. So? Why do we continue in our complacency to allow this land to be gripped by hands washed in the blood of America's children while their pockets are full of American's dreams?
Does an election in a year and a half ease your fear of more loss; whether that loss is financial, spiritual, or life? I can't sit idly by waiting another year and a half. I fear for the lives of all every day that this adminstration reigns its terror over the American People.
Hey TWC, you know me and my philosophies and theories.
I know you know better and this only goes to show how ingrained it is in all of us, but the acceptance of the idea of perpetual war began with the Drug War. We accept War upon our very own citizens who suffer from the HEALTH issue of drug addiction.
Prohibition never worked. It still doesn't. War is in our own streets and we do nothing to stop it. Ask these cops. They know and speak the truth. http://www.leap.cc.
The American government seems to enjoy war. When it is being waged in someone elses street, all the better.
Quote from: Katia on April 07, 2007, 11:45:29 AM
as far as i know the u.s. military is the [most] professional group you will find anywhere in the world. you simply can't believe the media on all the reporting of unprofessional ism. we don't gas our own, or chop heads off, we don't fight in civilian cloths, or perform any number of the atrocities that others around the world do. yes we are killing civilians, sometimes troops make bad mistakes but that's because we are [fighting civilians not a military]. taking pictures of naked men on the floor is far from torture. these attacks on u.s. soldiers from our media are pathetic. i wish some people truly understood what's going on. >:( rant over.
Let me see. Have you been to http://www.liveleak.com and actually watched our troops?
I have been watching for years. I don't really think indiscriminate driveby shootings into villages whlie laughing, shooting dogs, cursing and swearing at innocent Iraqi children, is very professional. I have been watching. Some of these troops are ignorant enough to film themselves. The stuff OUR media won't show. I am not impressed with our troops and the situation we have put them in. Watch the reality of the situation on liveleak. Screw our media. They are pathetic lapdogs, mostly. Deballed, and defanged. They don't show HALF the real stuff.
People need to put thier money where there mouth is. You like war? Think it's worth it? WATCH it then. WATCH what you support and THEN tell me about how great all these REAL bloody body parts flying around are. If you can watch the real blood and guts and still support the war then I've got a most excellent link for ya. http://www.goarmy.com/flindex.jsp
Go for it. They need ya. Backdoor drafts and all that. Go fight for my freedom. Come on, go bleed and get mangled for me. lol. I am so worried that we are all gonna be speaking Iraqi. <sarcasm>
Wooooo Hoooooo Brooke is on a rant, Brooke is on a rant....I love her when she's like this ROWR! >:D
*TWC Bows down to Brooke*
All so very true Brooke.
I get sickened by those that spout inanities with no intelligent or honest background for their words and beliefs. Lockstep, hut-two-three-four...oh wait! It's time for the *two-minute hate*....
How can one assume and/or accept anything without actually finding the facts that support it? What is respectable or patriotic about that? Shall we all devolve into scared lil minions of the US Government? Will they call us Patriotic then?
When will the rest of our brothers and sisters in America see the light of truth and stand tall to what freedom is really all about instead of swallow the color coded make believe fear mongering BS the Administration and the MSM spoonfeeds the populace? When do people start paying attention and connecting the dots that are there? When do the American people stand up and take ther country back by the sheer act of INFORMING AND EDUCATING THEMSELVES?
BTW, Ignorance may be bliss, but ignorance is NOT accountable in a court of law ;)