I've been on HRT for about 2 months now and I Haven't felt a thing. I look at my body and I see no changes whatsoever. I'm starting to freak out and think perhaps it just wont do anything for me. I've tried to be patient but I really think I should feel something. my skin is the same. my emotions are the same. just...nothing.
is this normal? I suppose I'm on a fairly low does. idk what normal doses are though so i cant really say. but I do feel like my body probably absorbs it really well. because any medicine in general does nothing for me.
I was prescribed vicodin once and it did nothing. I've taken it for headaches and felt no different. perhaps that means something. idk.
would I possibly be better off with a different method? I will ask my doctor all this on my next appointment in may. but im worrying so much that Its making me depressed. I just want some opinions.
I also wanna know if its possible that HRT will never do anything for me...
Even 2 months is not a long time for this sort of thing. Give it longer.
I too had doubts. It was 3 months before something happened that could ONLY have been caused by hormonal changes - my breast buds became noticeable. Now they are unmissable.
I am probably nearly twice your age and so things happen more slowly for me than for someone of your age and if you are on a low dose then it may need upping.
I am sorry, but this is the hardest message of all - be patient.
I know how difficult it is but hormones are very powerful and have to be used carefully. The other thing that many forget is that hormones are very much an ON/OFF switch and the doctors need to find what is the lowest level that flips you from male to female. Once they know that doubling the dose will not half the transition time because the hormones trigger your body and it changes at its own speed. If your body is slow to respond then even upping the dose will make very little difference once you are over the trigger level. Even pubescent girls take three to five years to complete their basic development.
When I started HRT, my first month I was on a seemingly insignificant dose, the 2nd month it was increased a little, and the 3rd month it was increased to a "normal" dose. It took until the end of the 3rd month for me to really notice anything out of the my norm--breast buds and the shapes of my calves beginning to change. I've been on HRT for 2 years now.
Like Beverley said, it's an extremely gradual process, and patience is key.
Quote from: Eve of Chaos on April 16, 2012, 06:50:26 AM
I've been on HRT for about 2 months now and I Haven't felt a thing. I look at my body and I see no changes whatsoever. I'm starting to freak out and think perhaps it just wont do anything for me. I've tried to be patient but I really think I should feel something. my skin is the same. my emotions are the same. just...nothing.
is this normal? I suppose I'm on a fairly low does. idk what normal doses are though so i cant really say. but I do feel like my body probably absorbs it really well. because any medicine in general does nothing for me.
I was prescribed vicodin once and it did nothing. I've taken it for headaches and felt no different. perhaps that means something. idk.
would I possibly be better off with a different method? I will ask my doctor all this on my next appointment in may. but im worrying so much that Its making me depressed. I just want some opinions.
I also wanna know if its possible that HRT will never do anything for me...
It depends on the individual and their physiology. HRT is not a "one-size-fits-all" deal. It does not work the same for everyone. Too many factors and too many variables can affect the outcome. Age, physiology, body type, other medical conditions, etc.
For me personally, it hasn't changed me a whole bunch. I've been on HRT for close to 2 years, and no major changes to report. I've yet to be mistaken for Hedi Klum. I'm 28 and aside from body hair, and a slightly bigger butt and hips, not much has changed. So, as with all things... it depends.
I think people put too much emphasis on HRT... HRT isn't the final destination (at least not for me)... it's just a step along the way, like hair removal, make-up, clothes, etc.
Two months is nothing, that's when you're on a low dose to get your body adjusted to the new hormones.
Don't worry, at six months you will start seeing changes, and just wait until one year!
Two months is not enough time even though I remember after one month I did start feeling a tingling sensation but we're all different. You definitely need to be way more patient. I assume at your next doc visit, you'll be getting labs done. That's a good way to see how they're working for you.
Yeah 2 months is still to early to see results. If you want to see results faster switch to injections. =P
Stop worrying so much, geez. You're worst than me, and that's saying something.
No one is immune to HRT. Your dose is just insufficient, and the doctor will see that when they see your hormones levels in May.
If you're an exceptional case of super-resilient testicles, maybe, MAYBE you'll need orchiectomy to see change. But I've never heard of such a thing, ever.
If you want to know what kind of dose is considered normal, look here. It should put you at ease. Lucky you, over in British Columbia, they prescribe spironolactone, too. http://transhealth.vch.ca/resources/library/tcpdocs/guidelines-endocrine.pdf
In my opinion, your problem is that your anti-androgen is not effective/a high dose enough. Spiro isn't considered a very strong anti-androgen, so maybe you'd need to switch or add finasteride if your dose is already supposed to be good, I don't know.
My endo put me on the maximum recommended dose of E after just one week, so whilst it may decrease my long-term, final results, it's probably normal that I see results and you don't.
I've heard from some people that they just stop paying attention to trying to find the changes because when they do that, THAT'S when they start noticing something.
I'm going to just echo what the others have said and just be patient. It will come. :)
Ask about adding finasteride. Even a lil DHT can block estrogen from binding.
If you are expecting a lot of stuff after 2 months... then you definitely have unrealistic expectations about HRT (and that is just going to cause a LOT of letdowns).
Basically... go into it with the lowest expectations possible. Consider that the hormones will change nothing... then, you will be happy with whatever you get.
Also realize this will take YEARS...
I don't think she's expecting a lot; just something. I'm only 2 weeks ahead of her and I've seen noticeable change within the first few days (notably my sex drive going way down), and my nipples have begun changing 2-3 weeks ago, and my hair is growing much more slowly in some places, and...
Which is why I think a dose adjustment should be performed if NO effect has been felt yet. HRT takes time, but it doesn't take months to start to take effect.
:police:
Hello folks. Let's please remember that dosages are not to be posted in the forums.
Quote from: Susan on July 27, 2006, 07:45:44 PM
8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:
A. Advocating for or against a specific medication or combinations of medications for personal gain is strictly prohibited.
B. Discussing the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription, and self medication without a doctors care is prohibited.
C. Discussing dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.
We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision.
Thanks.
Isn't what we have done so far permitted?
Suffice it to say I felt the reminder was appropriate at this time. If anyone feels I have acted inappropriately, please report this post and/or contact Susan and Forum Admin directly.
Okay, I was worried I had misunderstood.
I didn't start feeling more like myself until about 3 months into hrt. And I'm getting even closer to myself as time passes. It's a long and complicated process. :P
I know its going to take a long time. im ready for the long haul. i just truly expected to feel sometinhg. mostly mental changes. just something knowing my body is getting something different than it has for the past 23 years.
what A said is true. im jsut afraid I'll end up being someone HRT doesnt work well for.
I will ask about finasteride though. my hairline is another horrible giveaway that needs addressing. lately I started to accept taht I will need some ffs to be ok with myself.
but thats off topic.
Quote from: Eve of Chaos on April 16, 2012, 06:50:26 AM
I've been on HRT for about 2 months now and I Haven't felt a thing. I look at my body and I see no changes whatsoever. I'm starting to freak out and think perhaps it just wont do anything for me. I've tried to be patient but I really think I should feel something. my skin is the same. my emotions are the same. just...nothing.
is this normal? I suppose I'm on a fairly low does. idk what normal doses are though so i cant really say. but I do feel like my body probably absorbs it really well. because any medicine in general does nothing for me.
I was prescribed vicodin once and it did nothing. I've taken it for headaches and felt no different. perhaps that means something. idk.
would I possibly be better off with a different method? I will ask my doctor all this on my next appointment in may. but im worrying so much that Its making me depressed. I just want some opinions.
I also wanna know if its possible that HRT will never do anything for me...
It takes years! and after being on HRT continually for 12 years I too have been disappointed with the lack of results from HRT and Anti androgens.
What form of HRT are you taking?
She's on a low dose of E and an unknown dose of spironolactone.
As for you, after such a long time, I'd have asked my doctor long ago if I were you. If you haven't seen anything at all, your dose is clearly insufficient, and you've been more or less losing your time for 12 years, if you ask me.
If you've seen something but find the final effects dissatisfying, well, I don't know what to say. I don't know how old you are, but maybe you got a combination of a very unlucky low sensitivity to treatment and too advanced an age for starting...
Either way, I'm still convinced that SOMETHING should be felt quite fast after beginning the treatment, normally, even if it's obviously not much.
Eve, I'm sure you'll be all right with a dose adjustment. Trust your endocrinologist.
Quote from: A on April 17, 2012, 02:07:27 PM
As for you, after such a long time, I'd have asked my doctor long ago if I were you. If you haven't seen anything at all, your dose is clearly insufficient, and you've been more or less losing your time for 12 years, if you ask me.
If you've seen something but find the final effects dissatisfying, well, I don't know what to say. I don't know how old you are, but maybe you got a combination of a very unlucky low sensitivity to treatment and too advanced an age for starting...
Either way, I'm still convinced that SOMETHING should be felt quite fast after beginning the treatment, normally, even if it's obviously not much.
Eve, I'm sure you'll be all right with a dose adjustment. Trust your endocrinologist.
My oestrogen levels are always very high and testo levels very low about 0.8 constant. My endo says there's nothing he can do and my options are limited. I want to try shots as I think they are more effective but they are not legal in the U.K, so I've had a constant battle with the medical profession to try different medications.
I've still tried many different forms of pills, patches, gels and implants plus various anti androgens. Obviously some people are more receptive to HRT than others and no matter what your hormone levels are the receptors don't always work in the way you think they will. I have a little breast growth but not enough and my fat distribution after 12 years of constant HRT isn't very good and a lot of the fat tends to go on my belly rather than on my hips. My facial skin is hard rather than soft although my body skin is quite soft and I don't get any body hair but I didn't really have any before HRT.
In the U.K it's hard to get the help you need and the original endo I saw at a London gender clinic wasn't very helpful and said I was a nu sense complaining about my poor fat distribution. I now see an independent endo who is more helpful than the old one but says we've tried almost everything.
My deepest regrets, then: you are a curse of bad luck. I hope you find something that works better, one day.
On the bright side, since Eve is still young, even if she is as unlucky as you, she should get something acceptable, I think.
Quote from: Eve of Chaos on April 16, 2012, 06:50:26 AM
I've been on HRT for about 2 months now and I Haven't felt a thing. I look at my body and I see no changes whatsoever. I'm starting to freak out and think perhaps it just wont do anything for me. I've tried to be patient but I really think I should feel something. my skin is the same. my emotions are the same. just...nothing.
is this normal? I suppose I'm on a fairly low does. idk what normal doses are though so i cant really say. but I do feel like my body probably absorbs it really well. because any medicine in general does nothing for me.
I was prescribed vicodin once and it did nothing. I've taken it for headaches and felt no different. perhaps that means something. idk.
would I possibly be better off with a different method? I will ask my doctor all this on my next appointment in may. but im worrying so much that Its making me depressed. I just want some opinions.
I also wanna know if its possible that HRT will never do anything for me...
Be thankful you're not like me and have bad side effects to almost any medication I have ever taken. I can't tolerate estradiol and looks like the alternative I have been trying estriol is the cause of skin rashes I started getting. I may be screwed as far as ever taking anything other than spiro..
Was it liver-related? If so, did you discuss transdermal patches and injections with your doctor?
Quote from: A on April 17, 2012, 10:22:35 PM
Was it liver-related? If so, did you discuss transdermal patches and injections with your doctor?
Nope, horrible migraine headaches, even on very, very low doses. I'm not gonna suffer through that and sit in a dark closet crying the rest of my life to be on estradiol.. Started on a "normal" dose and it was terrible. I suffered through 2 weeks and finally couldn't take it anymore. Tried 6 different types (cremes, patches, different orals etc) over a year (different combinations of stuff too) and finally gave up. I'm OK with it and some born females can't tolerate it either so...
My point was everyone's body is different. Some people like yourself have fast results, some people don't see much change ever. I've seen old people in their late 50's respond quickly, seem people in their 20's see almost nothing on the same dosages.
When I hear people complaining about lack of results, I just wish I could take it to be able to complain about that :P It hasn't changed my plans as far as my life, probably will at some point have BA to do what I can't get from HRT.
Quote from: A on April 17, 2012, 10:22:35 PM
Was it liver-related? If so, did you discuss transdermal patches and injections with your doctor?
Is this question to me? I've not had any liver related problems and have tried patches in the past. But over here in the U.K injectable HRT is illegal.
Quote from: A on April 17, 2012, 06:13:42 PM
My deepest regrets, then: you are a curse of bad luck. I hope you find something that works better, one day.
On the bright side, since Eve is still young, even if she is as unlucky as you, she should get something acceptable, I think.
Not everyone is receptive to HRT no matter what you do. But it's far too early to comment until she's been on HRT for at least five years or more.
I feel that we all suffer a lot from impatience as far as HRT results are concerned, mainly because some of us have waited for so long to get cleared to start on it, that an expectation that they are magic pixie dust pills is built up around them.
The truth of the matter is that a natal female puberty is about 6 years! Why do we expect that a synthetic pill/patch/injection is going to do a better job in 1-2 years in a biological system with an antagonist present? It's just not going to happen as easily/quickly.
I'm not really worried at looking in the mirror for changes - if something will happen it will make itself apparent eventually.
I've put my expectations down to the very low department for myself. I'm on low dose anyway and will be happy to just be rid of the male sex drive and with any luck, have the dysphoric feelings abate. Anything that happens past that is going to be a bonus.
Quote from: Stephe on April 17, 2012, 10:33:41 PM
Nope, horrible migraine headaches, even on very, very low doses. I'm not gonna suffer through that and sit in a dark closet crying the rest of my life to be on estradiol..
Sorry to hear that's the case for you Stephe. In some ways, you might be thankful - just think - it may well be the case that if you were natal female, that you might have been one of those poor souls who get monthly cluster migraines with changes in the hormone cycle.
Incidentally, have you tried checking for other sources for your migraines? In some cases they can be muscular - working from the lower back upwards or alternatively from the jaw muscles (a bad bite can contribute to this in some cases). If that's so, then getting that sorted might give you a chance of going back on E. (The E might just be a trigger to push something that was already out of balance and tip you over the edge into having a migraine).
I'm one of those people ridiculously receptive to HRT by the 4 months mark my face had already shifted fully to the female side and I had B cups. At two months I didn't feel much either I think my breasts became sore at 3 months but what you should definitively experience already is the complete lack of sex drive, random erections and sperm when you ejaculate there should be little to no fluid that come out and it should be clear not white.
I am on the Chuck Norris of AAs though >.<
BTW injectable Estrogen is dangerous and highly overrated it's no longer prescribed here in Canada too.
Quote from: luna nyan on April 18, 2012, 06:51:05 AM
Sorry to hear that's the case for you Stephe. In some ways, you might be thankful - just think - it may well be the case that if you were natal female, that you might have been one of those poor souls who get monthly cluster migraines with changes in the hormone cycle.
Incidentally, have you tried checking for other sources for your migraines? In some cases they can be muscular - working from the lower back upwards or alternatively from the jaw muscles (a bad bite can contribute to this in some cases). If that's so, then getting that sorted might give you a chance of going back on E. (The E might just be a trigger to push something that was already out of balance and tip you over the edge into having a migraine).
I have thought about what you said and have just accepted I can't tolerate this. I can't imagine dealing with headaches like this from uncontrollable causes.
We discussed this second thing but honestly, I very rarely in my life have had any sort of headache whatsoever. It seems odd there would be something wrong that only surfaced when taking E. I could maybe see if headaches got worse but I give never have had them before this. I've also in the past been very sensitive to meds in general and have strange reactions (Keflex shut down my liver and almost killed me) so wasn't shocked when this happened.
To add another data point to this discussion - i am on low dose HRT to control my dysphoria attacks (i'm bigender). HRT allows me to calmly live my normal boy life with occasional ventures into the female world. I don't want to transition, and don't really want a lot of what i know HRT will inevitably bring. The changes from HRT are the price i'll have to pay for my mental stability and i've accepted that.
After more than a year the changes are beginning to be noticeable ... i've recently had to take measures to start hiding them. I didn't notice any significant changes until about 6-9 months after starting HRT. Lately i've noticed that the changes seem to be coming faster and faster.
So be patient - two months is not much time for HRT to begin to work.
Quote from: Stephe on April 17, 2012, 10:33:41 PM
Nope, horrible migraine headaches, even on very, very low doses. I'm not gonna suffer through that and sit in a dark closet crying the rest of my life to be on estradiol.. Started on a "normal" dose and it was terrible. I suffered through 2 weeks and finally couldn't take it anymore. Tried 6 different types (cremes, patches, different orals etc) over a year (different combinations of stuff too) and finally gave up. I'm OK with it and some born females can't tolerate it either so...
I used to get those problems as well. Real severe headaches which used to drive me to vomit quite badly. I also used to get high prolactin levels even on low doses of HRT. It was especially bad for about 5 years constantly but recently it's not often I have these headaches and I've upped my doses a lot more.
Quote from: riven1 on April 18, 2012, 09:43:21 AM
After more than a year the changes are beginning to be noticeable ... i've recently had to take measures to start hiding them. I didn't notice any significant changes until about 6-9 months after starting HRT. Lately i've noticed that the changes seem to be coming faster and faster.
So be patient - two months is not much time for HRT to begin to work.
I agree.
While I noticed tons of changes in the first couple months, they were not very powerful. Yes my mental / emotional capacities were changed, skin changed, my breasts buds grew, I lost muscles, my face rounded a bit (Yes, all by month 2), they were all very subtle but noticeable if I pointed them out. But I'm now on month 7 going into 8 and ... it seems every week or so I'm getting maam'd more and more when I'm out in male form. It's like every week now I'm changing a lil bit more. I showed someone a picture of me 1 month into HRT yesterday and they were like "That doesn't even look like you... total transformation"
2 months is nothing. Everybody I know that's been on E for more than a couple years says something along the lines of "anything under a year is nothing!"
Five years on HRT to "start commenting" is exaggerated and way too pessimistic, if you ask me. Before this thread, every testimony I have read, without exception, stated even though, often, nothing obvious came for months, within the first 2-5 weeks, there was always something. Maybe I always fell on the wrong reports, but even if I did, I think the data I have is enough to rationally suggest that SOME change is normal to expect after a few weeks.
E's effects are quite slow, but an anti-androgen, at an appropriate dose, usually does at least something in a few weeks. I mean, when they use them to chemically castrate criminals, I think they only wait for 3 months to check.
Quote from: A on April 18, 2012, 05:26:42 PM
E's effects are quite slow, but an anti-androgen, at an appropriate dose, usually does at least something in a few weeks.
I can agree on this. Spiro basically killed what I call the "male sex drive" within a week or two. I'm OK on just spiro if that's all I can tolerate and will probably just deal with any minor skin rash issues from this other estriol med unless it get's ugly.
As far as living 5 years with headaches that would drive someone to vomiting, I'm not going there just to be on E. That would not be a quality of life improvement for me, I'll just go have BA done and take spiro for kill off the T.
In that case, it might be more efficient to look into an orchiectomy.
An Orchi without being able to take E instead of T is suicide.
Nuking your sex hormone without substituting it is definitely extremely bad...
Quote from: Seyranna on April 18, 2012, 10:04:52 PM
An Orchi without being able to take E instead of T is suicide.
Nuking your sex hormone without substituting it is definitely extremely bad...
That was my thoughts. My blood work shows my T levels are -real- low for a male, at higher end of range for female. I have plenty of energy etc so don't feel being on spiro is killing off T to the point of not having enough sex hormones for my body to function. Maybe at some point I can figure out a better solution.
But I do initially think an orchi without being able to take enough E might be a bad idea. I've read on this forum post ops fighting with this problem, T is gone and now they can't get the E levels up into a range where their body/brain will function right. I haven't really studied what eunuchs do or what happens when someone is castrated and no HRT is done..
I'm not positive, but I think that after an orchiectomy, your adrenals would supply about as much T as what's available with taking an anti-androgen.
Quote from: A on April 18, 2012, 10:50:36 PM
I'm not positive, but I think that after an orchiectomy, your adrenals would supply about as much T as what's available with taking an anti-androgen.
Think I'm gonna talk to the doc about all this. Thanks for the posts..
Quote from: Seyranna on April 18, 2012, 06:52:13 AM
BTW injectable Estrogen is dangerous and highly overrated it's no longer prescribed here in Canada too.
Well, I think patches and gels are overrated and did absolutely nothing for me. Pills haven't been that impressive either (I've been on HRT for 12 years). But I've not tried shots so I can't make a judgement on them but I would like to try them to find out for myself how effective they are. In the U.K the are not licensed so I'm not sure how to go about getting them?
As for Injectable HRT being dangerous, Spiro is considered to be dangerous over here in the U.K! and different countries have different rules for various medications.
No delivery method is really any better than any other, it's the serum level that's important..
Quote from: kelly_aus on April 19, 2012, 06:44:40 AM
No delivery method is really any better than any other, it's the serum level that's important..
Serum level? please clarify?
Quote from: kelly_aus on April 19, 2012, 06:44:40 AM
No delivery method is really any better than any other, it's the serum level that's important..
Not really. There aren't any actual scientific studies on trans women to prove it but from my own exp with different delivery methods (orals,patches, and injectables) and from the testimonies of countless other trans women I've come to the conclusion that injectbales or estrogen implants (pellets) are far superior to orals, gel, and even transdermals.
The serum level of estrogen; how much you have in your body and how stable the amount is.
Quote from: A on April 19, 2012, 04:45:15 PM
The serum level of estrogen; how much you have in your body and how stable the amount is.
You can have high oestrogen levels like I always seem to have and not get the development you need. It doesn't work on that theory that the higher the levels are the better the HRT works. It's more related to your genetics.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on April 19, 2012, 05:20:06 PM
You can have high oestrogen levels like I always seem to have and not get the development you need. It doesn't work on that theory that the higher the levels are the better the HRT works. It's more related to your genetics.
That's not an issue with the delivery method though, which is what I was talking about.. I was merely stating that no delivery method was in fact superior to any other..
Quote from: kelly_aus on April 19, 2012, 05:28:43 PM
That's not an issue with the delivery method though, which is what I was talking about.. I was merely stating that no delivery method was in fact superior to any other..
The only difference I would see is first pass (going through the liver first) can be harmful. I know with the med they are trying with me now (estriol), trans-dermal cremes are, for the same MG taken, 10X+ more effective than if orally taken. I would think injections wouldn't be ideal either given they would spike the levels and than taper off till the next shot. Maybe I'm thinking wrong but transdermal should be able to maintain more even levels if you can get the levels in a good place with them..
It's as you say, or so I believe. However, transdermal being the smoothest and releasing the slowest, even though levels are more stable, it still doesn't deliver as high a maximum dose in the blood as injections or even pills do, which is why people usually report faster results with injections and, to a lower extent, pills. But in theory, both of these should not be more effective, maybe even less, than transdermal in the long run, I think. Now, as for transdermal being actually better, I don't know. What's sure is that it's by far the safest, unless you get rashes because of the patch's adhesive, but that's another story.