Hi, all - My therapist counselled, that it would be very helpful to me, if I could find someone, who is going through a similar situation - i.e., trying to 'find myself', at a later stage of life (I am 52).
I told her about this site, and she said it sounded like a very good place, for me - to talk with others, who are going through all of those 'beginner's' questions - you all know them, I am sure - what is it that I really WANT?, how do I want to present myself to the outside world?, etc. Right now, I am still trying to answer those questions first, before I tell my hubby of 22 years, about it all.
It's strange - sometimes, I think 'not too much, has to change, for me to be happy', but then, in the next moment, I will feel completely the opposite, and I panic! Anyone, please? Thank you! JinJan.
Welcome JinJan :)
I went through a process of asking myself those questions last year, and reading everything I could find online and a few books. And I think that's a good way to do it. I wrote down my questions and answers and lists and doubts.
That led me to my first major gender realization: that I don't want to go through transition, and would feel far more "trapped" by that process than I am in my familiar, if a bit creaky and misused, body.
The second realization came with experimentation in clothing and cosmetics: since I am not a woman, I really don't gain anything by presenting myself in a particularly feminine way, and there's no shame or cowardice in not walking into the womens' section of a store the way I do the mens' section. But presenting myself as the gender I am -- kind of male, kind of feminine, and quite a bit off on a tangent -- is comfortable and normal for me.
I think there are some real advantages to not needing to seriously question gender until well established as an adult. It doesn't get rid of all the uncertainty and insecurity, but given how difficult my teen and early adult years were, I'm glad not to have stacked this onto it.
Thank you, Foosnark -
I have been trying to ask myself those questions, too, and then just letting the answers 'come' - and not try to judge them, but to then assimilate them, into a new way of 'being', for me - it is funny, though - how, even a small act, like buying a men's wallet, for me to use, instead of carrying around the women's wallet as I have been doing, can cause me to feel so 'fulfilled' (even if for just a moment). I have so 'conditioned' myself, for 52 years, to 'act female', that I still judge MYSELF, because I have been doing so, for so long. So, now - I just keep telling myself - one baby step at a time - a wallet today, maybe 'briefs', tomorrow! Who knows, right? Thanks again, Foosnark - JinJan.
For me anyway, little steps like that are enough. Sometimes I use womens' deodorant that is essentially the same as mens', just branded differently. I wear more purple now than I did (and have always like it) and occasionally pink, but still lots of greys and blacks. It's not unusual for me to paint my toenails silver and then wear mens' Harley-Davidson boots anyway. I do have a couple of womens' button-down shirts styled much like mens', and I doubt anyone notices the buttons are on the "wrong" side. But those little things are fulfilling, and I don't want to do bigger things.
This journey is just that - a journey and not a race. It took me several years to finally figure out who i am and to make peace with that person (i'm almost 50 now). You are now on your own journey and answers will come in time, bit by bit. It's important to periodically take time out in a quiet place and reflect on where you've been and where you may be going, and listen to your inner self and what inner self is saying.
You don't need any labels, and you shouldn't accept someone else's idea of who you should be - just be yourself. And feel free to hang around here and ask questions; we have some wise unicorns roaming this forest.
Doing the small things is a great first step - i've got red toenail polish on right now LOL.... (i'm a bio male).
JinJan, I know in the past 6+ months I have had a few "WTF am I doing?" moments.
But being off estrogen and T-blockers for a month, due to unrelated health concerns, has refocused my desire to continue.
I miss the good feeling I had on girl juice.
And I am about your age, having coped with my dysphoria for about 40 years.
Thanks, everyone - I really appreciate the thoughtful responses. I would like to respond to each of you, in detail, but my 'tablet', only allows me to type a couple of paragraphs, with each post.
I guess I was wondering - does your significant other know of your feelings regarding feeling like both, or neither, gender? Sometimes, I feel I don't really need to tell my hubby anything, but then I realize that I think it is affecting our sex life, negatively, right now - I want to figure this all out, partly, so that we can enjoy being together, sexually, more. In fact - I have been feeling really sad, and guilty, that I have been unable to give him, what he probably expected, when we got married, 22 years ago - and which has always been lacking, ever since then - I feel that has mostly been because I haven't known who I was - and he paid for it, unfortunately. Thanks for listening. JinJan.
I came out to my wife a couple of years ago and she knows pretty much everything. Some of it was embarrassing/difficult to talk about and work through but if you are committed to each other it can be done. Now i don't have to worry about keeping all of my secrets straight or worry about my wife stumbling on my stash of girl stuff, and I don't have to feel bad about lying to her either. She knows that i've been out and about a couple of times en femme too.
What do you think would happen if you started opening up to your s/o?
I'm a lot younger then you but have been in the confused stage and the "what am I" stage recently It sounds to me as if your needing to find who you are and what you can do to be comfortable as who you are, but maybe I'm wrong
Thank you, Riven1, Kinkly - I would like to tell my hubby about my feelings, but I, literally, don't know what to say! I can barely explain it to myself yet, let alone my hubby.
I am sure that most of you will feel that this next thought, is 'unnecessary' - but, I was wondering, if anyone here, has gotten any gender 'testing', done. I am a very analytical type person, and as I said, I am having trouble even explaining this to myself - I know that it isn't a 'choice', but this area seems so much more 'grey', than black and white - I thought, if my chromosomes showed something different, than the norm, it might help me. As I said, I expect most here, will say it is unnecessary - that I shouldn't have to 'explain' my feelings. I am still curious, though. Thanks. JinJan.
I talked to my wife about gender stuff a little before we were married, but it wasn't clear to me at the time. But I went through much of the stop-and-go process of figuring things out on my LiveJournal which she has access to. She is bisexual and open-minded, and has never had a problem with it. In fact when I had my big realization she was very helpful, and even encouraged me to try on some of her clothes just to see.
That said, she doesn't quite get the concept of nonbinary gender -- but I've had trouble explaining myself to myself, much less to anyone else, so that's to be expected.
I'm not sure what yo mean by gender testing but before I had found the therm Androgyne I had searched the internet & done every online quiz I could find that would test my gender to tell me what I was then when I saw a doctor about my gender Issues she got me to have a blood test to check my chromosomes and hormone levels my chromosomes came back as normal male & I was rather disappointed my hormones were in the male range but only just My Testosterone was at the bottom level for male and my estrogen was high for a male so at least I was only just male as far as my hormones were concerned I think too much about this stuff especially back then when I came out to my parents and told them of my hormone levels as a possible reason why I felt different they suggested I Increase my T and I would feel "normal" but I don't want to be normal Male. of all the online tests I did unless they asked about my bits they claimed I was female or something in the middle very few has possible in the middle possible results one of those few said I was Androgyne with a small amount of explanation that made me think yes that sounds like me and then searching for androgyne on Google brought me to this site and I haven't left since.
I've also done the gender test thing and I usually get androgynous/genderqueer if its an option or female but very rarely did i ever get male. Even the tests my therapist had me take when i was getting my letter for hormones said i was somewhere in the middle. As far as chromosomes go I would have loved to hear a doctor say I wasn't male but no such luck, just low testosterone levels.
Hi JinJan,
Your experience sounds somewhat familiar.
My spouse has known about my AG almost the entire time we have been together. I am 40ish, she is much older. Despite knowing for so long, we still rarely speak about it. I think my prior relationship may have died in part from speaking about it too much.
I think the important issue depends on if any permanent or major changes are in store for you [life altering changes]. That and any major desired intimacy changes. Hair cuts and clothing or accessories i don't think are really major enough to require any deep conversations.
The desire and need to be accepted and fully known i think can sometimes cause one to deeper than the partner is ready to do. I now mostly say "because I would like to try it", "because I like it", "because it interests me", rather than "because of my androgyne condition [which i am now forcing on you]". In my case she already knows about androgyne and me, and even this site, my writings, and everything i have done. She just doesn't respond well when I keep bringing it up.
So if you tell him, I would say you probably have only one chance to talk about it. After that, unless he is really into it, further talking has a chance of making things worse and sound selfish. That is, unless he is really into it. So if your not sure what to say yet, then I wouldn't say anything yet.
It is time to get to know "you" more. I sometimes find a celebrity that is sporting some androgynous fashion, then if asked would say, "Oh I just think that it would be cool to try ___, like so-and-so".
Kendall
Seems like I'm at a similar stage in life. I'm 50, finally trying to find a place where my gender issues allow me to belong.
I'm new to this group, also, just joined yesterday.
My wife gives a very unconditional sort of love, so she accepts me how I am. She's always known I'm a bit weird gender-wise and she accepts that my close friends are all women. At our wedding, my "best man" was a woman, and her "maid of honor" was a guy. She doesn't know I've started trying to classify myself but I don't think it would surprise her.
It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where I'd change my appearance to try to seem less masculine and closer to what I feel inside (what does someone who's part man, part woman look like, anyway?)
Please keep posting. I find your posts reassuring that someone else past the half-century mark (though inside I still feel about 15...) has the courage to start looking inside.
ag, my relationship with my wife is similar. When I started really questioning my gender, it didn't come as a surprise and she mostly wondered why I felt it was a big deal. An excellent question really. :)
I just had an interesting discussion with my hubby - I have been feeling badly that I have been unable to give him as much of a sexual life as he was desiring, over our 22 years of marriage - so, I wanted to ask for his forgiveness. He said it was 'okay', and that he has never 'held it against' me. I appreciated that, greatly (he is not a big talker!)
As part of that discussion, I mentioned something about 'changes' I have been going through - and he looked a bit alarmed, and said, 'what changes'? After thinking about it, I think, as he has seen my hair get shorter and shorter (and other changes in appearance), he might be thinking that I am wanting a sex change. Now, in my case, that is not my desire, or need - so, in my mind, it makes me think that he won't mind, half as much, when I DO tell him, that I feel androgynous. I hope that makes sense - just some thoughts. JinJan.
Just to add to my post above - I didn't mean to offend anyone who IS desiring to 'transition' - it is just that, after being married so long, I think it would be much harder for my hubby to understand, if I did want to transition, as opposed to dealing with my feelings of androgyny (and my heart goes out to all who are living with the issue of transitioning - I admire you all greatly for your courage and resolve!). Anyway - I just wanted to say that. Thanks - JinJan.
Hello,
This is my first post, though I have been lurking around (sounds weird huh?) for a couple weeks.
You bet I can relate to your post!! I am even older than you, though not married. And I just, sounds strange, figured out this non-binary exists and that it definitely applies to me. I feel like I am very possibly the first person in my generation to put the word "genderqueer" (not sure if this is the best term for me or what the various differences are) in a complete sentence.
About 2-3 months ago, I don't know when that story re: the transgirl who wanted to join Girl Scouts came out. I ended up reading all sorts of stuff on trans (mostly ftm) on youtube. I couldn't figure out why I was so into this subject, and then I realized that I also had a GID (not sure if it would have been diagnosable) set of experiences in my childhood. And in fact, have not actually ever stopped having these feelings.
Not sure what exactly I'd do about it. I have had quite a androgynous appearance/interests, but I know that's not the whole thing at all. Sort of related (maybe?) is that I am on the autism spectrum somewhere.
--Jayjay (seems like there is one already, so I am jayjay2)
Quote from: aleon515 on April 26, 2012, 09:02:51 PM
Hello,
This is my first post, though I have been lurking around (sounds weird huh?) for a couple weeks.
Welcome Jayjay. I just started posting a few days ago. The community by and large has made me feel very welcome. This has really helped me accept what i'm learning about myself.
Quote from: aleon515 on April 26, 2012, 09:02:51 PM
About 2-3 months ago, I don't know when that story re: the transgirl who wanted to join Girl Scouts came out. I ended up reading all sorts of stuff on trans (mostly ftm) on youtube. I couldn't figure out why I was so into this subject, and then I realized that I also had a GID
I wonder how much the events in the news had an effect on me too. I was riveted to the story of the woman who was fighting for the right to compete for Miss USA even though she was born a male.
Quote from: aleon515 on April 26, 2012, 09:02:51 PM
Not sure what exactly I'd do about it. I have had quite a androgynous appearance/interests, but I know that's not the whole thing at all.
I'm sort of in the same spot. I can't see changing my appearance too much. It would interfere with my job (I'm a school teacher. It's hard enough to get my students to focus on their lessons without one more distraction), and I don't think I could pass for female no matter what, so I don't think I'd be treated more like a woman anyway. I'm toying with the idea of maybe wearing a piece of feminine jewelry so that curious people can ask about it and I can explain to them what being an androgyne is like.
Please keep posting.
I may ramble a bit here - I am recovering from a brain injury a few years ago, and my brain feels kind of mushy, right now.
I am just talking out loud - I am finding myself, slowly, gathering more 'male' items - to either wear, or carry, etc. - it just feels 'right'. But, for me, I am still female - so, I really just feel either 'half and half', or 'in between'. I try not to worry about labels, but I have always felt 'androgynous'. I have even been contemplating wearing an 'Androgyne' t-shirt, underneath my button-downs - to get closer to 'coming out'. I live in a pretty small town, where it is hard to hide - and, part of me wants to hide, so I can just be 'me', but I also want to come out to all, and still just be ME - I just keep trying to take baby steps, right now. JinJan.
To Agfrommd - Someone here mentioned once, that they wear something feminine, underneath their regular clothes - and others, like me, enjoy dressing however I feel like dressing (usually male), while we are home, alone. I wonder, if doing something like that, would help you to feel more fulfilled. Just a suggestion (because you said you can't dress differently, while at work, etc.) Hang in there - I am so thrilled, and thankful, to have found the wonderful folks, here - I don't feel like a freak anymore! Thanks, all! JinJan.
>Welcome Jayjay. I just started posting a few days ago. The community by and large has made me feel very welcome. This has really helped me accept what i'm learning about myself.
Thanks!
(I'll have to look up text edit features, meanwhile, I hope everyone understands the old fashioned caret thingie.)
>I wonder how much the events in the news had an effect on me too. I was riveted to the story of the woman who was fighting for the right to compete for Miss USA even though she was born a male.
I think its a way of getting info about what is happening in the ether. For me, it was the Girl Scout story, but I also did follow the other one as well. Barbara Walters did what I thought was a very sympathetic interview.
>I'm sort of in the same spot. I can't see changing my appearance too much. It would interfere with my job (I'm a school teacher. It's hard enough to get my students to focus on their lessons without one more distraction), and I don't think I could pass for female no matter what, so I don't think I'd be treated more like a woman anyway. I'm toying with the idea of maybe wearing a piece of feminine jewelry so that curious people can ask about it and I can explain to them what being an androgyne is like.
I am a teacher as well. I couldn't pass as male, so there. :-) I don't know if I actually consider myself any gender at all. Actually I've always been a bit confused when someone talks about feeling like a "woman". What does feeling like a woman feel like exactly? I am nto sure I feel like a man either. I think I read sort of "butch", but without any strength or muscles. :-) I am actually asexual so that doesn't work either.
It was funny but I have "come out" (sort of) to one friend of mine. She was very understanding and actually kind of interested I think. However, she said, she had been a tomboy and that she didn't think she had outgrown this. I feel this is a gender "role" issue, not really a gender ID issue. Though I don't know exactly. Time to end the post. :-)
>Please keep posting.
jay jay
Quote from: aleon515 on April 27, 2012, 06:47:47 PM
Thanks!
(I'll have to look up text edit features, meanwhile, I hope everyone understands the old fashioned caret thingie.)
You can click on the little "quote" square at the upper right part of the post
Quote from: aleon515 on April 27, 2012, 06:47:47 PM
I am a teacher as well. I couldn't pass as male, so there. :-) I don't know if I actually consider myself any gender at all. Actually I've always been a bit confused when someone talks about feeling like a "woman". What does feeling like a woman feel like exactly?
For me, it means that when I'm around a group of women, I feel comfortable and part of a sisterhood (while they look at me and wonder what this strange guy is doing in their midst.) While I'm with a bunch of men, I think of them as strange and different from me. They can't figure out why I'm so standoffish. It also means that I often identify with and care more about the female characters in books and movies.
Of course it will be different for you. Everyone's experience is different. A lot of androgynes say what you do, that they don't feel like any gender or even that they feel like an unnamed third gender. However you experience it, realize you're among friends.
Quote from: JinJan on April 27, 2012, 03:44:26 PM
To Agfrommd - Someone here mentioned once, that they wear something feminine, underneath their regular clothes - and others, like me, enjoy dressing however I feel like dressing (usually male), while we are home, alone. I wonder, if doing something like that, would help you to feel more fulfilled. Just a suggestion (because you said you can't dress differently, while at work, etc.) Hang in there - I am so thrilled, and thankful, to have found the wonderful folks, here - I don't feel like a freak anymore! Thanks, all! JinJan.
A nice suggestion. I hadn't thought of that, but it's very non-threatening.
Appearances aren't really that important to me (one of the aspects of my personality that is most definitely MALE :^) What's more important is that other people have some frame of reference with which to understand what might otherwise seem strange behavior.
Quote from: JinJan on April 16, 2012, 01:44:50 PM
Hi, all - My therapist counselled, that it would be very helpful to me, if I could find someone, who is going through a similar situation - i.e., trying to 'find myself', at a later stage of life (I am 52).
It's strange - sometimes, I think 'not too much, has to change, for me to be happy', but then, in the next moment, I will feel completely the opposite, and I panic! Anyone, please? Thank you! JinJan.
JinJan This is my first post on this forum as I think that I am in a similar space to you I am only just getting my mind around just who I am at 54 yrs I had wrestled with being a cross dresser for years and after I started hrt found immediate relief Immediately the need to present as female was much reduced However I still 'felt' quite clearly in my mind that I would eventually transition so had full ffs Strangely as my breasts developed and fat redistributed I became uncomfortable at the pace of change so switched to low dose hrt Had the benefit of being less anxious and more content without feeling I was accelerating into a new presentation that I was not sure I could or wanted to completely carry off
It was then that I discovered this forum and this thread From reading your and other member posts I am pretty sure that I am now MTA but perhaps it could be that I am just am scared and in fact a slow burn MTF with unusual inertia due to family and social surrounds. I feel great that I have lasered off most of my body hair and have had many hours of facial electrolysis, am wearing more gender neutral clothing and more feminine colors In some way being less speedy has made my wife more comfortable to the point where she says and I am about to test that more feminine clothing is ok with her She has known for most of our 28 year marriage that I was feminine in private with her but completely and successfully masculine every where else Its almost as though I learned to play the role and became very good at it but had denied myself a richer way of being and relating to myself and others I have come out MTA to a few of my friends and they have been great so perhaps I have been making a mountain out of a mole hill
Quote from: helen2010 on June 03, 2012, 06:53:55 AM
Its almost as though I learned to play the role and became very good at it but had denied myself a richer way of being and relating to myself and others
Welcome to the forest, Helen. I'm older also, didn't start facing my gender issues until 50.
I like the way you put that. Every time I've acted male for the past five decades I feel like I've been playing a role. Or maybe three decades. My first two decades I was so clueless about gender, I didn't even know there was such a thing as acting male.
Thank you for welcoming me to the 'forest'! It is such a relief to realise that I am not alone, weird or out of place. Finding out that there was a biological reason for years of stress and dysphoria was an extremely welcome revelation but the impact of hrt was even more profound The instant well being took my breath away Thinking through and dealing with the resulting change and potential outcomes has become my next challenge and I am still working my way through this Sometimes I cant see the forest for the trees but with time and help I seem to be progressing