I am a bit muscular, w a tight male body, and masculine arms. Could I rest assured that my arms will come down a little and soften a little during HRT? I can pass as an athletic female if you eye me bellow the neck (..FFS is coming in 5 months tho)..but I am aiming for a softer looking women w a fit body
In my case, muscle mass reduction wasn't terribly noticeable by others, but I noticed it myself. While the appearance of my muscles hasn't changed (and if they had visibly shrunk, I would look really strange), I have noticed that I'm not as strong as before.
Perhaps the muscle was replaced by fat, thereby preserving the appearance of somewhat normal arms. I imagine that in someone more built, the being-replaced-by-fat part would probably be skipped, reducing the appearance of muscle overall. I've seen it enough times, after all...
... but then again, HRT is quite variable. I'm not sure if there's much that it does universally, aside from breast growth. And breast growth is only a fact in itself - there is not much way you can expect or determine your potential size.
My muscles shriveled up in a few months. But I think I'm responding very fast to HRT.
I think I will grow huge tits cuz I have massive pecs and developed tendencies to gynocomastia while running a cycle of juice to increase muscle mass during bodybuilding days..I was forced to stop cuz my nipples were jumping off my shirt, which feels tender to this day although they did not grow as bitch-tits (term for man boobs). Estrogem will retrigger all that and sure enough I will grow good tits.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on April 20, 2012, 12:04:36 AM
My muscles shriveled up in a few months. But I think I'm responding very fast to HRT.
Same, my shoulders and neck are very much reduced. I still have a bit of bicep left but my strength is seriously diminished..i cant lift half of what I could before.
I got weaker but I can't say that I've seen a reduction in my muscle size. But then my job requires me to lift an impact gun that's getting to be the equivalent of lifting my little boy up.
I know two MTFs who were big time swimmers and have that lean but muscled classic swimmers build. I've only known them post HRT. The development around the shoulder area is still there, as well as a good amount of strength without working out or swimming like they used to.
In my own case I never had much in the way of muscles to start with. Definitely a big loss in my arms. No so much in my legs, I do a lot of walking.
Quote from: JoanneB on April 21, 2012, 07:44:39 AM
I know two MTFs who were big time swimmers and have that lean but muscled classic swimmers build. I've only known them post HRT. The development around the shoulder area is still there, as well as a good amount of strength without working out or swimming like they used to.
In my own case I never had much in the way of muscles to start with. Definitely a big loss in my arms. No so much in my legs, I do a lot of walking.
Exactly this. :)
Same with me too, in my younger days I was basically near Olympic level swimmer, so had a bit of development in the shoulder area, but yeah, it is still there a bit even now. :-\
It has reduced, but not by much I don't think, at least this is what I have found. ^-^
All my muscles are losing both tone and bulk, slowly - especially noticeable in my legs, standing up for a long time is much harder on the calves than it used to be (partly because my foot muscles aren't able to do so much of the work). Seems to vary from person to person.
Everything i've heard about muscle loss over the last year has had me desperately looking for a job with lighter duties, some days I struggle with the amount of heavy lifting I have to do.
My arms are quite puny but I still hate looking at my arms & seeing my muscles bulging as I work. I won't be on HRT until the end of the year so i've still got time.
I just do not have the strength that i used to have. I was doing something yesterday that required me to lift something heavy with one hand and use the other to hammer on it and i just could not do it.
When i look at pictures of myself i'm still bulked up in the upper body - all size and no strength. I have seen some thinning of my face and neck, but not the shoulders/arms.
Quote from: Jackie Witt on April 20, 2012, 11:55:54 PM
I think I will grow huge tits...and sure enough I will grow good tits.
Omg is this wording really necessary ewww!
Now where was I...yea so I was never a strongie, but after 21 months on HRT my arms have gotten right small. My father used to have me bring in the groceries, and in just one trip I'd grab and bring in 2-3 parcels of 30 water bottles. Now I can only grab one, and I must use two hands. The loss of muscle mass has been dramatic in my back and shoulders as well.
Back when I was a p-plater I got into a proper smash up and managed to hurt my neck and back. In time the only thing that relieved the constant dull pain was free weight exercise and push ups targeted at strengthening those muscles. Years passed, and I rather forgot about it. Now that old injury is back, aching all the time. My diagnosis: muscle loss!
I have had to re-learn my body and my capabilities as I'm truly not as strong as I once was, and that's haf some serious implications I believe you t-girls should consider. For instance my boyfriend and I were mucking about and I thought I'd have a go at pinning him. Well he easily flippend me from on top of him and then pinned me down to a position from which I simply COULD NOT ESCAPE. I couldnt move. I had him stop at once as it scared me greatly. I realised that my mind thought I was stronger than I really was. The old thought that I might easily fight off an assailant is just not true anymore. Today I might easily be overpowered, and that really is very scary. Please take this into account as it has far reaching consequences, and not knowing ones strength (or lack of) could lead to some dangerous situations.
Oh for a laugh I iust tried to do some push-ups. In 2009 I could do 55 non stop....now I managed TWO, and only one was truly proper. :/
Everyone responds a little differently... the size of our shoulders and upper body usually come from muscle. When I was in my late teens and early 20's, my shoulders weren't this wide... so skeletons don't keep growning like that! I have seen body builders get very soft features from HRT, but over time.
I've noticed a lot of strength reduction, but my shoulders are still wide. My arms have become more elongated, as the muscle does respond differently. It will also depend on how much testosterone is still in your body. My endo says it'll be about 3 years total before my body would be fully feminized. I'm half way there.
I'm a firefighter, so I have to be in shape..... the getting weaker is sometimes tough, but I'm working on my strength now with more plyo.. (No weights in a while).
Watch your diet, and your workout routines, and you will get change, but it will be over a greater period of time.
I haven't noticed a change in the shape of my muscles. Though, I was ridiculously skinny to begin with, so there wasn't much to lose! Though my arms and legs have gotten... maybe a bit flabbier?
But I've definitely noticed the strength thing. It's weird! All of the sudden, I started getting exhausted while carrying groceries. And I had to lighten up the contents of my ginormous purse because I couldn't carry it any more. And I can't open jars! Ack!
I'm not too bothered be this; it's just one of those "holy crap!" things you suddenly notice during transition. :-)
-anna
Quote from: auburnaubrey on April 23, 2012, 10:17:56 AMMy endo says it'll be about 3 years total before my body would be fully feminized. I'm half way there.
I'm a firefighter, so I have to be in shape.....
Ah that must be tough line of work in which to be losing some strength...but you show those boys who's boss Aubrey! :P
As for the 3 year quote, does that also apply to the reduction of body hair? My body hair is GREATLY reduced, but there's still a bit on my tummy that annoys me to no end.
Quote from: PositivelyAnna on April 23, 2012, 10:34:23 AMAnd I can't open jars! Ack!
-anna
YES YES YES! I mean come on, what do they seal pickle jars with, a precisely placed nuclear bloody detonation? ???
Apart from that, I really hope HRT helps me in the muscle mass domain. I never had any strength to speak of (my mother is probably stronger than I) since I avoid with a passion physical labour based on strength. I was never really in shape, either, since 24 HOURS IS JUST TOO SHORT FOR A DAY.
Despite all that, I've always had pretty massive muscles everywhere. I'm sort of desperate. Even as a child, I was somewhat bulky. Things don't look up. T_T I wish there was a muscle-destroying drug; a sort of anti-steroid.
Quote from: PositivelyAnna on April 23, 2012, 10:34:23 AMAnd I can't open jars! Ack!
I could never open jars. Tip: hit the side of the lid a few times with a spoon a few time to emboss it. After 4-8 hits, it should open easily.
I could never develop muscles I was always flab and curves even though I am thin. If I get any weaker on hrt Ima need to do some martial arts training :o
Quote from: A on April 23, 2012, 04:06:56 PM
Apart from that, I really hope HRT helps me in the muscle mass domain. I never had any strength to speak of (my mother is probably stronger than I) since I avoid with a passion physical labour based on strength. I was never really in shape, either.
Not sure what I wanted was clear. And I'm really, really worrying a lot all of a sudden, so I felt the need to post again. Do you think there's any hope for me? Was anyone in a situation similar to mine ("natural" muscle despite zero training) and seen improvement? Is there anything I can do? :x
Well, in time your muscles will reduce to female levels. I have seen HUGEEEEEEE men ecome skinny little women, and vice versa. I think you meant you DONT want muscle mass, so I'd really just make sure your dosage is alright amd give it some time.
Yup, that's what I meant.
Actually, I know that many get a lot of reduction; swimmers, bodybuilders and all. But what worries me the most is that my muscle is all natural - it's over the male average and I've never trained for it at all - and I've more or less had it since my childhood, if I look at the pictures. I wonder if HRT can do much about something that seems more genetic than anything else.
I really, really wish there were anti-steroids.
Quote from: A on April 23, 2012, 04:47:17 PM
Not sure what I wanted was clear. And I'm really, really worrying a lot all of a sudden, so I felt the need to post again. Do you think there's any hope for me? Was anyone in a situation similar to mine ("natural" muscle despite zero training) and seen improvement? Is there anything I can do? :x
I can kinda relate...although I'm not very far along in terms of results so I'm not so sure how much good I'm going to be as far as useful.
I swam for a huge portion of my life, and at the end of my swimming days I did weights and boxing as well for training. What a mistake that was, sure it helped then and it helped me feel like I fit in but wow do I wish I could take that back. Anyway, I stopped all this craziness about 5 years ago, and despite being MUCH less active than I was, I still maintained all that bulk that I had put on.
Since starting hrt though I've been really really dedicated to the gym and I put in at least an hour of cardio daily and after I try to fit in about 30 mins or so of yoga as well. It started out as a chore but now I totally love doing all of it, it makes me feel good, and I'll even say that now I'm in the best shape of my life (despite being nationally ranked when I was 18, go figure).
I know for a fact that I'm dropping muscle mass now. The bulk is slowly fading and I find that things that I used to lift no problem are becoming a problem. When I look in the mirror to me its harder for me to see the changes, but with a tape measurer its clear that things are fading.
Point being to all this, of course there is hope for you. Even if you were destined to be muscular and fit genetically, with the testosterone in your system properly blocked, I don't think that your body will be able to maintain your muscles at the size that they are. I hadn't done any sort of upper body workout in ages (and now I avoid it like the plague) and was maintaining what I had until I started taking spiro, and now that the dosage seems to be right that muscle that I was maintaining without putting in any effort is starting to fade away. Not as fast as I would like, but hey, it's progress.
Quote from: MiaOhMya! on April 23, 2012, 10:53:27 AM
As for the 3 year quote, does that also apply to the reduction of body hair? My body hair is GREATLY reduced, but there's still a bit on my tummy that annoys me to no end.
Outside of facial hair (beard), your overall hair should reduce and become thinner... perhaps even lighter. The hair on my belly I have waxed, and I noticed it wasn't as dark as before, but I will probably still get laser on it. I had laser on my lower arms, so they're ok, and my chest and upper arms were never hairy at all........
As far as muscle, even natural muscle, yes, it should become more elongated with HRT. The best thing to atrophy the muscles is inactivity, but we are constantly moving our muscles. But toning them with excersise and HRT can reduce and lengthen muscle. I see it working on my biceps. I always thought it would be great to take a couple weeks off work and get a cast around my chest, and both arms. Quickest way to atrophy muscle!! (If you've never had a cast on, it's amazing how thin your arm or leg can become with just two weeks in a cast). Of course, it's not practical...... possibly not even possible to get the material.... but it was always one of those daydreams of mine! >:-)
Quote from: A on April 23, 2012, 07:56:46 PM
Yup, that's what I meant.
Actually, I know that many get a lot of reduction; swimmers, bodybuilders and all. But what worries me the most is that my muscle is all natural - it's over the male average and I've never trained for it at all - and I've more or less had it since my childhood, if I look at the pictures. I wonder if HRT can do much about something that seems more genetic than anything else.
I really, really wish there were anti-steroids.
I never worked to have the muscle i had, and i had no problem losing it. It took my triceps about 7 months, but they finally reduced to acceptable, and those muscles had always been there.
Quote from: auburnaubrey on April 23, 2012, 09:01:38 PMI always thought it would be great to take a couple weeks off work and get a cast around my chest, and both arms. Quickest way to atrophy muscle!! (If you've never had a cast on, it's amazing how thin your arm or leg can become with just two weeks in a cast). Of course, it's not practical...... possibly not even possible to get the material.... but it was always one of those daydreams of mine! >:-)
Daydream thief.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on April 24, 2012, 10:07:45 AM
I never worked to have the muscle i had, and i had no problem losing it. It took my triceps about 7 months, but they finally reduced to acceptable, and those muscles had always been there.
That's reassuring. Now, down to next worry: hoping that under that, my bones have a manageable size.
Due to stress when i started transition i lost 4 stone in weight, HRT has made me loose strength in my upper body, my lower is still strong as i run alot, do not know if its muscle loss making me feel dam cold all the time now, pre HRT i felt warm and the cold did not bother me much.
I think this is mostly metabolism reduction. I personally don't see a difference, since I've been cold all the time for a while prior to starting HRT; probably due to the loss of that huge amount of isolating fat. o.o
Quote from: A on April 24, 2012, 05:23:00 PM
I think this is mostly metabolism reduction. I personally don't see a difference, since I've been cold all the time for a while prior to starting HRT; probably due to the loss of that huge amount of isolating fat. o.o
You may be right might have been my ex blubber keeping me warm, would like to see a loss in calf muscle but time will tell i suppose.
Quote from: auburnaubrey on April 23, 2012, 09:01:38 PMI always thought it would be great to take a couple weeks off work and get a cast around my chest, and both arms. Quickest way to atrophy muscle!!
Hrmm, that nasty thing *down there* is muscle...hrmmm, so a cast huh? :eusa_think:
Quote from: amdee on April 24, 2012, 05:18:06 PM
do not know if its muscle loss making me feel dam cold all the time now, pre HRT i felt warm and the cold did not bother me much.
I don't know what it is, but I am MUCH colder than I used to be... I used to sleep with my AC at like 70 or 71. Now it's 74 to 75. I get cold REAL fast. I think it's because the skin is so much more sensitive... as I have the same reaction to hot: EG: I used to take my oatmeal bowl out of the microwave with no problem... now the bowl is too hot for my hands....
Well, I suppose my electric bill enjoys me on HRT....
Quote from: MiaOhMya! on April 24, 2012, 05:31:17 PM
Hrmm, that nasty thing down there is muscle...hrmmm, a cast huh? :eusa_think:
Bwah ha ha ha!! :icon_evil_laugh:
Yup, metabolism reduction. And for the heat, it's probably your skin thinning.
And, uhm, if you put your conditioned air (that's what AC means, right?) on power setting 75, shouldn't it be working harder, thus make you colder? o.o
Quote from: A on April 24, 2012, 07:19:48 PM
Yup, metabolism reduction. And for the heat, it's probably your skin thinning.
And, uhm, if you put your conditioned air (that's what AC means, right?) on power setting 75, shouldn't it be working harder, thus make you colder? o.o
I also am colder more, even though I weigh a ton. My hands and feet are always icy.
And A, you are from Canada right? And so you use metric and Celsius? She meant she sets it to keep the house at 75 degrees Fahrenheit.
Quote from: A on April 24, 2012, 07:19:48 PM
Yup, metabolism reduction. And for the heat, it's probably your skin thinning.
And, uhm, if you put your conditioned air (that's what AC means, right?) on power setting 75, shouldn't it be working harder, thus make you colder? o.o
Ahhh... used to be setting the tempurature at 71 degrees farenheit now warmer at 75 degrees farenheit. :)
Also, my cat seemed to get a LOT more soft and fluffy when I pet her!
Aaaaaah, right. Hadn't even thought of degrees Farenheit.
*Converts*
21 °C to 23 °C. Okaaaay.
As for your cat, people often report an improved sense of touch, and sometimes smell. The former could just be the thinning of the skin, or could also somehow be a result of more sensitivity, and I have no idea of the cause for the second.
I've always had more of the "bulky/heavy" strength rather than muscle really. This effect still scares me though. Think I posted on it before.
I experienced muscle and bone mass gain over the nearly 18 months on this stuff. This was due to the lifetime hormonal mismatch of too much T in my system causing that part of the endocrine system to reduce the benefits such as more muscle mass that it is intended. It is an irony that having the normal hormone levels of a woman in her 30's that brought this on. This is welcome to this 59 year old simply because I never experienced this kind of thing before.
I will enjoy this effect as long as I will have It.
The Spiro is the culprit here in regaining the lost sensitivity in my fingers caused by the nearly 30 years of handling, desoldering, troubleshooting and resoldering components back on PC boards with lead solder with the many punctures over those years to cause insensitivity in my fingers. The Spiro did do the flushing as part of its diuretic function. I can identify the different same sized objects in my pocket now.
Joelene