Ok after tons of research and getting three consults from Dr Z, Dr Spiegel and a quote from Cardenas I've decided to go with Dr. Z,
Feedback from reading Jeneva's journal, JenJen2011s, and posts from Wendy really helped a lot in looking into this.
I spoke with Dr Z twice and he did have that sorta persuasive attitude suggesting doing many procedures, but at the end of it he said its up to me and he will do what I want done. So yes he was business like, but at the same time he said its your call.
Plus for the same procedures his price was less than half that of Dr Spiegel. So I'm doing the endoscopic forehead and nose job work.
From what I've read it seems to be less of a recovery and pain relatively compared to jaw, mouth and neck work.
Any feedback on Forehead and nose recovery? I've made the decision to accept that whatever he does will be an improvement regardless if its perfect or not and I will accept what is.
The anxious part is that I only get one shot to do this and I have to accept the results and move on.
Currently I present part time and Dr. Z told me he has worked on many Part Time Transitioning people and even CDs.
I will keep an update on my progress.
Quote from: NCAmazon on April 22, 2012, 01:04:49 PM
So I'm doing the endoscopic forehead and nose job work.
From what I've read it seems to be less of a recovery and pain relatively compared to jaw, mouth and neck work.
Any feedback on Forehead and nose recovery?
He likes nose massage and it is fairly tender. The nose cleaning is also a bit of work. Pain wise for me it was jaw area then nose and last the forehead.
Forehead is more a nuisance though. The sutures spit for me for a long time. Also the forehead itches pretty bad when it gets sensation back.
Good luck and I hope you are pleased with the results.
Ohh very exciting! You must be anxious! :icon_nervious:
Please be sure to post your experiences as I am seeing the good doctor in late June, and any tips on arriving, pre-op, post-op, accomodations...well they'd be greatly appreciated!
I am very happy for you, and this is an important step in moving forward to who you really are. Doesn't get much better than that!
Quote from: MiaOhMya! on April 22, 2012, 01:56:37 PM
post-op, accommodations
Use Lisa's Compassionate Care for a few hours at least. They were AWESOME.
Stay at the Staybridge. Don't even think about anywhere else.
DO NOT try to walk around an airport if you are flying. Just walking down a few gates to get a snack had me tunnel visioned and if it had. Even much farther I'd have passed out.
Jeneva, from what I read it seemed like you had a lot of obsticles to overcome with health and the length and amount of procedures you went through. Maybe perhaps someone doing less or in a different health status might not have as much to overcome?
You were brave. They shouldn't let someone to go to the airport with the risk of passing out!!
I'm going one step at a time.
Quote from: NCAmazon on April 22, 2012, 02:44:11 PM
Jeneva, from what I read it seemed like you had a lot of obsticles to overcome with health and the length and amount of procedures you went through. Maybe perhaps someone doing less or in a different health status might not have as much to overcome?
You were brave. They shouldn't let someone to go to the airport with the risk of passing out!!
I'm going one step at a time.
I did have a lot done. I also WAY overdid it trying to walk to the Starbucks, but I needed something to drink so I could take meds. Just don't push yourself at first is what I should have said.
I can second this walking around post op for long distances. I suffered with this for almost a month and I was under for just a couple of hours for a nose job. I didn't have to fly but when I walked from the car to the office for my first post-op inspection about a week after, I almost passed out and had a mild panic attack from this, which I had never had before in my life.
This is really good information!
I've undergone GA before, and a minor surgery, but this is another realm alltogether. I was worried about walking the airport, or perhaps finding some transport to the gate. Maybe I can get hold of a wheely chair, heck I'd be pushed about in one without shame, maybe set a wheely chair record!
Quote from: Jeneva on April 22, 2012, 02:22:42 PM
Use Lisa's Compassionate Care for a few hours at least. They were AWESOME.
Stay at the Staybridge. Don't even think about anywhere else.
Alright so I am booking a hotel TODAY and this is important breaking information.
I've been thinking of staying at what's called "Extended Stay" as its very close to the clinic, it is reasonably priced, and it has the full kitchen. Their website and photos look quite nice, and clean. The Staybridge seems much further away and I'm worried about the distance to clinic.
What was your rate for the Staybridge love, and WHY there? I'd be staying 10 days. Could you perhaps post in my FFS thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,119118.0.html) (inspired, again, by you) as I don't want to threadjack, but it's also pertinent to this topic aswell.
The info in your purdy head is too valuable to not squuuueeeeze outta ya! GIMME! GIMME NOW! >:-) ( please! :angel: :angel:)
Quote from: MiaOhMya! on April 23, 2012, 10:41:49 AM
This is really good information!
I've undergone GA before, and a minor surgery, but this is another realm alltogether.
The longer you are under, the longer and more severe the side effects are likely to be. You need to be ready and honestly, know you will likely feel some depression and "What have I done!!" after the surgery. For me it started on day 2 and lasted a few days. It's perfectly normal so don't freak out :)
I had the "works" with Dr Z. in December last year. The forehead and nose surgery wasn't that painful at all, it was a bit uncomfortable with the nose packing. The spitting sutures on the forehead are nuisance, but not particularly painful. When you're removing the forehead sutures try to cut the knot, it makes removing all the bits much easier.
Raneth I saw your before and after PICs you posted. It seems like your eyes were more luminated and fresher after the surgery vs deep set. You had a much softer nose and forehead.
Are you happy so far with the progress??
Quote from: NCAmazon on April 23, 2012, 08:00:41 PM
Raneth I saw your before and after PICs you posted. It seems like your eyes were more luminated and fresher after the surgery vs deep set. You had a much softer nose and forehead.
Are you happy so far with the progress??
I'm not sure if I'm happy with the work, some days I absolutely love it, other days I think Dr Z. was the worst choice of surgeon I could have made. My girlfriend says I've got body dysmorphia which I admit is quite possible. I definitely do look better than I did pre-ffs though.
Quote from: Raneth on April 24, 2012, 03:59:01 AM
I'm not sure if I'm happy with the work, some days I absolutely love it, other days I think Dr Z. was the worst choice of surgeon I could have made. My girlfriend says I've got body dysmorphia which I admit is quite possible. I definitely do look better than I did pre-ffs though.
That's really possible because we tgirls undergo a lot of trauma and criticise ourselves sometimes for even the slightest deviations from our own ideal. That said I would like to hear the reasons why you think he could have been a bad choice as I'm going to see him ...and so is the OP!!
My main concern was my nose and my jaw area.
Some days I look in the mirror and see the most piggish looking nose one could ever imagine, other days I see it and it looks great. It probably doesn't help that there is a lot of criticism of Dr Z's noses out there, so many people say that they often look piggish.
My jaw area looks terrible, but I think a lot of this is due to the huge amount of swelling that is still present and that I've put on 10kg since ffs (in preparation for body work by Dr Z.) I only had masseter muscle reduction, not any bone removal from my jaw so that could also contribute to me feeling that it wasn't aggressive enough.
I'm perfectly happy with the orbital rim burring though, which is strange as it seems to be the thing most often criticised about Dr Z's work.
All in all I think the best opinion on my ffs would be from other people, I'm far to emotionally caught up in it to make any sort of objective judgement. I've been hyper aware of what people say about me (especially when they think I'm not listening!). So far I've only heard a few comments which have been:
Damn!, she's tall (I'm 6ft and was wearing 4inch heels).
Mummy, why are those two girls holding hands (I was with my girlfriend and we'd just passed a 5yo girl)
Look mummy, a tall girl. Look mummy, another tall girl. (passing another little girl)
Great skirt.
I also took the 4chan test. I took the 4chan test and while I didn't score that highly no one mentioned the words trap or ->-bleeped-<-.
Jeneva, Raneth or any other Z girls. What tips do you have for the consult with Dr. Z. the day before surgery? Is it best to take his best suggestions and trust his experience and jugement? Or to tell him how you want you nose and forehead to be.
Does he show photos of what types of looks he can realistically do for you?
He didn't show me photos. I did question extensively on if the breast augmentation size was appropriate for my body size and if I should upgrade to silicone. He didn't try for the extra cash with silicone and assured me that under the muscle and with the breast tissue I already had silicone would be the better choice.
I didn't feel I had an overly prominent brow line so didn't feel like I needed to talk about anything there.
For my nose I only wanted to make sure he fixed my septum (and he did and I breath better than ever). Regardless of what others say about his nose, I absolutely LOVE mine. My laser tech complimented me on it just Wednesday when I was in. It was funny because she made sure I was happy with it before telling me how much better she thought it looked. And most importantly Shannon (my wife) loves it too.
I did stress that my hairline was a key factor for me (and yet I'm wearing wigs now) and he did focus on that for me. He was able to bring my hairline a full inch down. Perhaps in time it will fill back in enough to avoid the wigs, but for now.....
Overall I had chosen him because of his skill and did not want to overly second guess him or tie his hands.
Quote from: NCAmazon on April 27, 2012, 07:33:09 PM
Jeneva, Raneth or any other Z girls. What tips do you have for the consult with Dr. Z. the day before surgery? Is it best to take his best suggestions and trust his experience and jugement? Or to tell him how you want you nose and forehead to be.
Does he show photos of what types of looks he can realistically do for you?
I think I would tell them what your main "problem area" is for you and which parts don't bother you as much. You don't want him to be agressive on an area you are mostly OK with and not be aggressive enough on some part you don't like.
Quote from: NCAmazon on April 27, 2012, 07:33:09 PM
Jeneva, Raneth or any other Z girls. What tips do you have for the consult with Dr. Z. the day before surgery? Is it best to take his best suggestions and trust his experience and jugement? Or to tell him how you want you nose and forehead to be.
Does he show photos of what types of looks he can realistically do for you?
I found that whatever I did say during the pre-consult he ignored me on anyway, just talked over the top of me or completely miss-understood what I was asking. If there was a I was to go through it all again I'd probably have just told him to change certain parts of me and get them done elsewhere. That being said I pretty much trusted his judgement and experience when I had my surgery and it worked out fine. I took the approach that he's an expert in his field and I'd looked at hundreds of other photo's of other surgeons and chosen him, I figured it would be like trying to direct a master painter if I started dictating how I wanted things done.
The one thing I was specific about was my nose, I really didn't want the upturned "piggy" look that so many people have criticised him about. When my nose splint came off the first thing that happened was my girlfriend burst into tears and wouldn't talk to him for the rest of our stay. Up until a week ago I was still really unhappy with my nose, however I've just recently gone back to him for body work and while I was under in the operating room he injected something (no idea what it was) that removed a huge amount of swelling and drastically changed my nose for the better.
Don't be afraid to stand up to him, I found it very difficult to actually get a decent response from him regarding my concerns. He will eventually listen if you keep on at him enough.
I'm going for the consult on Friday and surgery Saturday. I talked to him on the phone yesterday. Do you recommend getting prettied up and looking my best when going to the consult. I was going to go in drab, but I wanted to show my best look for the consult and see what he can suggest for the procedures I'm getting.
Or as you have said, he will just go with what he feels will look best and I pay for his judgement since he's been doing it for 20 years. I'll try to suggest what I want and make it known and then accept what he does.
Congrats NC :) Happy, speedy healing! Meghan
So is it best to look as made up and pretty as I can during the pre day consult?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest the "everyday" look. Better yet, make a phone call.
BTW, DrZ apparently does good BA work as well as FFS.
I saw him less than an hour after two flights and wasn't ultra made up at all. I'd suggest you go more everyday so that the makeup doesn't obscure any features or highlight features more than they really are.
Congrats NCAmazon on your surgery date! :)
I went in for the consult with no makeup on at all. Just go in and explain to him what you dislike and share any specifics you want but take into consideration all that he has to say as well. I decided to do a lip lift and nothing else to my lips but he suggested I get a fat injection to my lower lip. I really didn't want to but now I'm glad I did. My lips look great. Had I not done it, they would've looked off.
I concur with Jeneva about staying at the StayBridge hotel and also using Lisa Lopez for follow-up care. The money will be worth it. You will not regret it. Trust us!
I wish you the best. :)
I wish you a successful surgery. You are in good hands.
So My Surgery was last Saturday at 7:00 AM and I was out by 11 AM from Anesthesia. Initially I felt the packed nose and extreme thurst. I asked for water and sucked on a wet towel.
Lisa the caregiver was great in getting me on the wheelchair and on to the hotel. I got back and stumbled to the bed to crash. I actually had to wait 2 hours for my first dose of pain meds. This was the hardest part as I sat there in pain in the nose and mouth.
Eventually I got the pills and fell into a drowsy haze. Lisa was great in getting me the drinks I needed to eat what I could for opening my mouth. I was able to survive into the next morning and at 5 AM popped my next set of meds. I stumbled to breakfast and had my first decent meal. I felt strength slowly comming back.
At around 11:30 AM on Sunday the doctor came by and yanked my nose packing and it was a relief to be able to breath through the nose again. I followed up on the routine cleaning yanking the blood out as best I could and pumping saline spray in the nose.
It was finally on Tuesday that I showed up at Dr. Z's office and had the dressings cut off my head. This lead to that first euphoric shower. I stood there for what felt like an eternity taking in the warm water and rinsing my hair. I stepped out fresh and a new person.
Now its Wednesday and I'm managing with massages, lubricating, and pain meds. So hope to be out of here by Friday morning.
I look in the mirror and see a train wreck, but don't expect to see any results. In fact results have not even crossed my mind and won't hopefully for a month. All I can think about now is just moment by moment feeling better overall.
It was great to see Raneth there and have a nice chat with her as she was getting some bodywork. Her face looks great!. Anyways just dropping a not from my Dr. Z recovery.
Congratulations! You did it! Hope you have a speedy recovery.
Thanks Jen, One thing I do notice on the post op visits is the doctor is fairly straight forward and brief. So Everyday I went to see him after the procedure he talked to me for at most 15 minutes or less each time. But he does know what he's doing.
dr z is one of my options but other surgeons ive consulted with said i need a type 3 forehead setback ,so im not sure now ?
Congratulations, Good luck healing.
Every surgeon is going to tell you that you need x or y done, and that only they can do it and anyone else doing it is awful. I found the best way to decide was to look at before and after photos of people with similar features to myself and decided from there. There are a bunch of photos on the yahoo-ffs group, and I'm sure if you trawl through the forums here you'll find some pictures too.
Quote from: Raneth on May 17, 2012, 10:07:58 PM
Every surgeon is going to tell you that you need x or y done, and that only they can do it and anyone else doing it is awful. I found the best way to decide was to look at before and after photos of people with similar features to myself and decided from there. There are a bunch of photos on the yahoo-ffs group, and I'm sure if you trawl through the forums here you'll find some pictures too.
i dont know after looking at all the pictures avaible on different surgeons websites before and after etc , i still think dr chettawut in thialand has some of the most amazing results with noses foreheads , and overall affect . but ive heard some people give negative feedback/ reviews and i dont see many pictures on the yahoo ffs galleries for his patients
lol im never going to be able to pick a surgeon at this rate
Congratulations,
I wish you a speedy recovery
xxxxxxx
Anna
Quote from: Raneth on May 17, 2012, 10:07:58 PM
Every surgeon is going to tell you that you need x or y done, and that only they can do it and anyone else doing it is awful. I found the best way to decide was to look at before and after photos of people with similar features to myself and decided from there. There are a bunch of photos on the yahoo-ffs group, and I'm sure if you trawl through the forums here you'll find some pictures too.
Raneth, hope your electrolysis is going well. I know you are are your own worst critic, but me and other girls who were there felt you results gave you a very soft feminine forhead, nose and cheeks from Dr Z.
I found before and after photos and meeting patients can get you a good feeler for who to decide, but once you pick you pretty much have to leave your features in the surgeons hands.
Post Op Dr Z looked at me more like his art work versus $$$. He was obsessed and engrained in looking at his work and admiring what he did. He does have a mind that's out there, but is talented.
I hear different opinions about his endoscopic forehead techniques etc which he pitches heavily, but I saw some girls with very heavy manly features get transformed with his endoscopic technique. Feel free to PM me if anyone has questions. I just got home.
Any Z girls may be able to help me. I got the tweazer staple remover tool and I'm seeing the staples start to get a bit loose on the forehead . I try and remove them but they don't seem to come off and it hurts a bit so I let it be and hope that in a few more days it will loosen and be able to be yanked out. Any tips??
I am at 8 days post op now.
Honey, I had staples removed from my scalp by a professional nurse after 2 weeks - I was feeling absolutley nothing, no pain what ever.
Why not rather have it done?
Axélle
Hmmm, not sure why it is hurting for you unless it is just the time after surgery. Doesn't he recommend 2 weeks (14 days)?
Hmm ok, maybee I underestimated. i thought he meant remove them when they start to get loose. But I have no prob waiting 14 days. I'll leave them be for now. They don't hurt. I was looking through all my directins trying to figure out when and how to remove them and on the video.
Thanks!
my staples came out after 2.5 weeks, I'd be hesitant taking them out at 8 days. If you're worried about what to do you can always phone/email dr Z and ask.
NCAmazon - thank you so nmuch for your posting of you procedure an followup. I almost choose Dr. Z for my Trach Shave in March but went to Dr. Spiegel solely becasue Dr. Zs style turned my off and I went to Boston.
On the phon in January Dr. Z tried to sell me on a lower face lift and said I would not be happy with just a Trach shave so it seemed to me he was after the extra $$. Now that I am 2 months post Op I see no reason for a loer facelift. Anyway I will see him next week at Be-All and discuss phase 2 (Chin and Jaw work). I think someone should take him aside and tell him how much business he is losing due to his "style" not his work.
i like dr zukowskis aesthetic results , how agressive he is with noses etc, but i think i need quite significant forehead reduction like by about 8mms so basicly a type 3 forehead , im just worried the edoscopic burring wouldnt be enough for that
Quote from: VickyMI on May 22, 2012, 08:18:13 PM
NCAmazon - thank you so nmuch for your posting of you procedure an followup. I almost choose Dr. Z for my Trach Shave in March but went to Dr. Spiegel solely becasue Dr. Zs style turned my off and I went to Boston.
On the phon in January Dr. Z tried to sell me on a lower face lift and said I would not be happy with just a Trach shave so it seemed to me he was after the extra $$. Now that I am 2 months post Op I see no reason for a loer facelift. Anyway I will see him next week at Be-All and discuss phase 2 (Chin and Jaw work). I think someone should take him aside and tell him how much business he is losing due to his "style" not his work.
Dr Z has bad attitude. He talks too much and he advises patients what other surgeries they need. The truth is that if you take his advice you will be happy with the work done. I took all of his advices and i can't be happier with the outcome. I don't think it is about the extra cash it is about him being a perfectionist and he knows his job. Maybe after the jaw and chin work you will need a facelift as well. It all depends on your skin elasticity and on the amount of burring done.
Quote from: VickyMI on May 22, 2012, 08:18:13 PM
NCAmazon - thank you so nmuch for your posting of you procedure an followup. I almost choose Dr. Z for my Trach Shave in March but went to Dr. Spiegel solely becasue Dr. Zs style turned my off and I went to Boston.
On the phon in January Dr. Z tried to sell me on a lower face lift and said I would not be happy with just a Trach shave so it seemed to me he was after the extra $$. Now that I am 2 months post Op I see no reason for a loer facelift. Anyway I will see him next week at Be-All and discuss phase 2 (Chin and Jaw work). I think someone should take him aside and tell him how much business he is losing due to his "style" not his work.
Don't get me wrong Dr. Z is a good skilled man and knows what he's doing. Even though he's a bit disconnected in the way he talks to people He does give extra help. I called him on a Sunday on his cell a week after the procedure and he was there to answer questions. It seems like he's always in a rush when talking but his work is good.
He does suggest a lot and gives the pitch, but when you say no he says cool and moves on no big deal. But hey its a biz. I don't know how other docs are in terms of personally connecting with patients. I'm happy so far. But I chose no lower face work becuase I don't want that long recovery pain risk etc.
Now I look back and laugh but right after my procedure Dr. Z came up to my wheelchair while I was bandaged up and said "How does it feel to get hit by a truck with a big Z on it" he said laughing as I was in my post op pain.
Or when he does his first massage he squeezes your nose hard and says "you gotta take the pain".
His surgical suite is not exactly fancy or state of the art and is fairly basic .
Quote from: NCAmazon on May 23, 2012, 05:46:25 PM
Don't get me wrong Dr. Z is a good skilled man and knows what he's doing. Even though he's a bit disconnected in the way he talks to people He does give extra help. I called him on a Sunday on his cell a week after the procedure and he was there to answer questions. It seems like he's always in a rush when talking but his work is good.
He does suggest a lot and gives the pitch, but when you say no he says cool and moves on no big deal. But hey its a biz. I don't know how other docs are in terms of personally connecting with patients. I'm happy so far. But I chose no lower face work becuase I don't want that long recovery pain risk etc.
Now I look back and laugh but right after my procedure Dr. Z came up to my wheelchair while I was bandaged up and said "How does it feel to get hit by a truck with a big Z on it" he said laughing as I was in my post op pain.
Or when he does his first massage he squeezes your nose hard and says "you gotta take the pain".
His surgical suite is not exactly fancy or state of the art and is fairly basic .
what is the nose massage for ? ive never heard of anyone needing to masage their nose after rhinoplasty before
Dr Z recommends nose massages after rhinoplasty. I don't know if it is just because he wants to make absolutely sure it heals well or if it is because he is so aggressive, but he is very keen on massaging everything after surgery.
Quote from: Jeneva on May 23, 2012, 09:28:49 PM
Dr Z recommends nose massages after rhinoplasty. I don't know if it is just because he wants to make absolutely sure it heals well or if it is because he is so aggressive, but he is very keen on massaging everything after surgery.
do you know if he can get good reduction in a type 3 forehead ? i like all his other results in other areas of the fave but im just not sure about the forehead yet . i need to see some pictures i think of people who had quite a bit of forehead projection beforehand
You are welcome to check out my pictures in the Z thread I had in December. But I'm not sure if you'd say I had a very prominent forehead before.
Quote from: Jeneva on May 23, 2012, 10:29:00 PM
You are welcome to check out my pictures in the Z thread I had in December. But I'm not sure if you'd say I had a very prominent forehead before.
haah i didnt think i did either but all these surgeons are telling me i have a type 3 forehead o.O . examing my photos more though i tend to agree with them although i dont have that ' ridge " area that runs all the way across the area and through the top of my nose and to the other side. the actual overall projection of my forehead is probably more of a problem
I have spoken with Dr. Z a few times, and I've not yet experienced this "bad Zukowski" about whom I hear so much. I'm really curious why. I read so many stories about him before we first spoke that I went into my phone consult ready for some disagreement, yet he turned out to be not at all as I expected. I am beginning to think its just an issue of perception. Were he the way I'd heard described I would absolutely tell him about it, without hesitation.
We've not met in person, but I imagine that first meeting will encompass the usual akwardness of meeting a stranger, especially one with whom you must convey deeply personal information. He does try to keep things light, which is normal considering that I am a stranger to him as well, but he has not said a single thing I've considered pushy, arrogant, or tactless. That's my experience to date...
Quote from: MiaOhMya! on May 23, 2012, 11:12:56 PM
I have spoken with Dr. Z a few times, and I've not yet experienced this "bad Zukowski" about whom I hear so much. I'm really curious why. I read so many stories about him before we first spoke that I went into my phone consult ready for some disagreement, yet he turned out to be not at all as I expected. I am beginning to think its just an issue of perception. Were he the way I'd heard described I would absolutely tell him about it, without hesitation.
We've not met in person, but I imagine that first meeting will encompass the usual akwardness of meeting a stranger, especially one with whom you must convey deeply personal information. He does try to keep things light, which is normal considering that I am a stranger to him as well, but he has not said a single thing I've considered pushy, arrogant, or tactless. That's my experience to date...
yea i found him pleasent on the phone
Here are my before and after forehead shots after going to Dr Z. I think I've posted them before, but just in case I haven't:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Flk0bv.jpg&hash=d7ff214dd866de0a52e4711c29b1afc724dbaae6)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTl6Ef.jpg&hash=ec140a6a4a5e32c6ee5037ea372984d5183e5743)
the lower half of my face is still quite swollen in this photo, so try to ignore that!
Quote from: Raneth on May 24, 2012, 05:49:09 AM
Here are my before and after forehead shots after going to Dr Z. I think I've posted them before, but just in case I haven't:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Flk0bv.jpg&hash=d7ff214dd866de0a52e4711c29b1afc724dbaae6)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTl6Ef.jpg&hash=ec140a6a4a5e32c6ee5037ea372984d5183e5743)
the lower half of my face is still quite swollen in this photo, so try to ignore that!
oh wow you really didnt have a prominant forehead at all , but just that subtle change really made your overall much more female
I'm getting the vibe that girls have this type or that type of forehead paranoia is something created by the the T Community and the surgeons themselves. It seemd a bit scary too me that someone would actually have their forehead bone removed then reshaped and put back in with a metal plate.
Dr Z puts a minimimal incision relatively and shavaes down bone and elevates the temples. It seems to work for the most part even among the most masculine of T girls I've seen at his office.
But I guess the debate goes on.
Just an update currently 20 days out from surgery. Most of the bruising and major swelling has come down. I see good changes especially in the nose. I liked how Dr Z. has an aggressive style.
But one thing that puzzles me is that at work most people notice a slight difference so far but no one comes and says "Wow you look so different" or "Something is different about you".
One person that sees me everyday said "hmm it looks like you changed your hair style" ( I got forehead reduction and hairline lowering).
Is it common that people who see you often don't pickup on the changes?? Do I still have a long way to go before a more final product?
Some people that pay close atttention that I'm friends with say "the top of your nose looks slimmer".
I only told some close co workers that I was going for nose work but nothing else. I present as male at work, but use hair extensions etc when I go in girl mode.
I am glad to hear you are healing well.
If you are iterested in a forehead reshape (brow). Dr. Spiegel performs the best method among all the major surgeons in the U.S. The way he does it is hard to explain but if you are serious about having this procedure as part of your FFS you should really consider talking to him. He does not use a metal plate but uses the exiting forehead bone you have and shaves it down on the side lifts and resets it in the forehead. Like I said hard to explain but I have seen Dr. Z, O, Beck and Metzler versions and Spiegel has the best method. Cant vouch for all the other FFS procedures you may need but this one he has the best method.
Quote from: NCAmazon on June 02, 2012, 01:52:27 PMIs it common that people who see you often don't pickup on the changes?? Do I still have a long way to go before a more final product?
I think it is very common. The same thing happened to me. Family and friends know something has changed but do not know what exactly until you point it out to them or show before and after photos. At work, everyone asked me what I got done. The only person who could see the changes immediately is my partner because we live together and he see's me every day.
Yes, you still have ways to go before the final product. Give it at least 6 months. That's when you'll get a good idea of what you'll look like. Your face will go through a lot of changes during the first 6 months.
Hey Jen jen, Jeneva, Amazon...well anyone who has undergone FFS...I have a question for ya...
With my own FFS ten days away now I'm starting to get pretty anxious, more than anything just about the pain those first few days. I've been through some very painful things in my life, but not this sort of thing. Could you specifically let me know what degree of pain you all experienced? Is it a constant pain, or more the occasional "OUCH okay yeah now I'm hurting gimme a pill?!?" Were you able to sleep?
The Zukowski FFS DVD kit, while very informative, was also effing scary and put me off a bit. You shoulda heard me and my bf watching it...you'd have thought we were wathching "wildest police videos" because we were "OHHH!" "AHH!!" "OUCH!" "OMG THAT HAD TO ******* HURT!". Many expletives! :P
Quote from: MiaOhMya! on June 20, 2012, 03:01:18 PM
Could you specifically let me know what degree of pain you all experienced? Is it a constant pain, or more the occasional "OUCH okay yeah now I'm hurting gimme a pill?!?" Were you able to sleep?
If it's still up, go check out my FFS diary in the blog section of Susan's. My experience is there. In short, everyone's experience is different. For me, it was something that I could never prepare for. I went through hell and back. I experienced a lot of pain and discomfort even with the meds. I even fainted twice. It is important to rest as much as you can and to have someone be there to help you, preferably an experienced nurse.
Sleeping was difficult and very uncomfortable. You have to stay on your back and at a 45 degree angle for a few weeks. Sometimes I had so much pain I coudn't sleep. I woke up during the middle of the night many times due to the pain.
I know it sounds scary but things will get better as time goes on. You just have to be very patient. I wish you luck with your surgery. May you have a speedy and painless recovery!
Quote from: MiaOhMya! on June 20, 2012, 03:01:18 PM
The Zukowski FFS DVD kit, while very informative, was also effing scary and put me off a bit. You shoulda heard me and my bf watching it...you'd have thought we were wathching "wildest police videos" because we were "OHHH!" "AHH!!" "OUCH!" "OMG THAT HAD TO ******* HURT!". Many expletives! :P
Shannon and I found the DVD to be incredibly boring. He would say the same thing OVER AND OVER. I understand he was stressing the point, but I'd guess most of us are going to do everything he asks because after spending that much you want it to turn out as close to perfect as possible.
Quote from: JenJen2011 on June 21, 2012, 09:29:11 AM
It is important to rest as much as you can and to have someone be there to help you, preferably an experienced nurse.
+1000! I personally used Lisa's service. She did the bulk of the work and one of her employees did a few days. Both were amazing and incredibly helpful. Actually take their advice too. They done it over and over and even if something sounds weird, try it.
Quote from: JenJen2011 on June 21, 2012, 09:29:11 AM
Sleeping was difficult and very uncomfortable. You have to stay on your back and at a 45 degree angle for a few weeks.
And this is very true.... The first night of course is no problem because of the left over anesthesia, but that next night it is hard to get used to the position required and won't have a back ache as bad. Eventually you will find a good way to sleep, but it is just so awkward.
As far as pain goes, as Jen Jen said it is different for everyone. I didn't have excessive pain as long as I took my meds when I was supposed to. Don't try to be a hero. Take them on the recommended schedule. You aren't going to get addicted for the amount of time he has them recommended.
For me prior to the surgery
10 = kidney stones
90+% of the time my pain was at a 4-6 level on that scale and rarely even a 6.
Now injecting fat grafts while awake? On my old scale of 1-10 with kidney stones being the highest, it was a 20+. Now I'm not sure how much of that is really from pain and how much was from the MEGA anxiety attack I had during it (even though I had a benzo in my system ahead of time).
I recently had an infection of some sort (2-3 months ago) and hit around 8.5-9 while my fever was 103. So it isn't that I can't feel pain, I just got lucky or the pain killers work really well for me because honestly I don't know that I even hit 7 after FFS from just normal movements.
The massage will hurt, but it is temporary so I never really tried to grade it.
Quote from: MiaOhMya! on June 20, 2012, 03:01:18 PM
Hey Jen jen, Jeneva, Amazon...well anyone who has undergone FFS...I have a question for ya...
With my own FFS ten days away now I'm starting to get pretty anxious, more than anything just about the pain those first few days. I've been through some very painful things in my life, but not this sort of thing. Could you specifically let me know what degree of pain you all experienced? Is it a constant pain, or more the occasional "OUCH okay yeah now I'm hurting gimme a pill?!?" Were you able to sleep?
There was very little generalised pain for me. The part that really hurt was the massages, lots of tears and screaming from me. Even after 2-3 weeks they still hurt like hell. Definitely the worst pain I've had in my life.
Sleeping was more uncomfortable than anything else. I constantly had a dry throat and was needing to drink water, I found that almond milk helped keep my throat moist more than water did.
Quote from: MiaOhMya! on June 20, 2012, 03:01:18 PM
The Zukowski FFS DVD kit, while very informative, was also effing scary and put me off a bit. You shoulda heard me and my bf watching it...you'd have thought we were wathching "wildest police videos" because we were "OHHH!" "AHH!!" "OUCH!" "OMG THAT HAD TO ******* HURT!". Many expletives! :P
How did you manage to watch the entire dvd? I tried several times and had to stop because it was so damn boring.