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Have you heard the Rock Paradox, "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG THAT HE OR SHE CAN'T MOVE IT?" Imaginative question don't you think? What's the answer, if God can make rock that big, then he's or she is not all powerful because of his or her inability to move the rock? However if God can move the rock no matter what size it is, then he or she wouldn't be all powerful because God wouldn't be able to make an immovable rock.

The reason I ask is that sometimes God gets blamed for bad things that "unfairly" happen to people. Why doesn't God stop these terrible things from happening? It only makes sense that if God is all powerful then he or she is "ultimately responsible" for every thing that happens. It's easy to understand having bad feelings towards an all powerful God this being the case.

So who agrees then, if God has all the power "real and imagined" that it's a darn shame the state things have sunk to. Because God clearly has all the power that can be imagined right, or does he or she only have all the power that really exists? If that were true there would things that God couldn't do, then the rock paradox would make sense. Could it be that the fate of the world is our responsibility?

Perhaps I'm not the one to answer this one, but it's essentially simple:
Can god make a rock so big your imagination cannot move the image of it?

Because it all boils down to what you believe. If God is all powerful, why did he ever bother making us this stupid? Then again; if God is nót all powerful, then that solves your problem, right there. Because power isn't only about making a rock. Power isn't just about being able to wave a hammer, either.
The mere fact that we, as humans, cán make things too big for us to move by hand allready tells us this.
So what is the definition of power?

Edit: The answer to the literal question is, by the way: No. Because God is all powerful, so he can make a rock so big he could still move it, but not bigger, as the only way to be all-powerful in every aspect is to have perfect balance at the end of the line.

Whatever is not love is fear. 

There is nothing but love.

Therefore, fear is not real.

QED

Robyn
A Course in Miracles

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Quote from: Jonie on April 01, 2007, 06:06:36 PM
Have you heard the Rock Paradox, "CAN GOD MAKE A ROCK SO BIG THAT HE OR SHE CAN'T MOVE IT?"

Actually, the answer is yes.  God COULD do that.  In others words, God could limit God's self if God so chose to do that.  It has happened once in history when God chose to become one of us, and that was Jesus Christ. 

On another level the answer is no.  If God did such a stupid thing for no reason other than having a rock so large, then we need to find a new God because that one is an utter moron.  This, of course, by definition, would mean that God is not God, making it impossible.

Lee Trevino once said that if you are ever playing golf and get caught out in a lightning storm, just hold up a one iron.  Because not even God can hit a one iron.

I prefer the words of the angel in Luke 1:37.  After the virgin Mary is told that she will conceive and have a child, the angel tells her, "For nothing is impossible with God."  A rather different slant, but much more helpful.

Peace,
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Apart from being a nonsensical query (um, the material here is such a small part of existence it is silly you know) I thought it was supposed to involve something along the lines of nuking a burrito to be too hot to hold it or something like that :P (that is the version I always have heard)


But in all seriousness I do not think I can give an answer. As I said, it is nonsensical, at least to me.


As for humans being stupid, are they really? They certainly do some REALLY stupid things, but most children do as they are growing up.


As for God being a meanie for not giving a hand, I am not so sure that is the case to be honest. An there are quite a number of interesting reasons and things going on.

But to be honest, I believe things have 'sunk to' this level of base idiocy because of humanity. In other words you have only yourselves to blame. ^*ponder* Now that sounds rather harsh but there is truth in it. You have to grow up first before you can even comprehend things. ... It is sort of like the natives of one of the topical islands who had never EVER seen a large ocean going vessel before. When one of the explorers came and visited them they could not see the ship, regardless. It wasn't that they were somehow stupid or primitives, just that they had NO frame of reference.


^*shrug*
Sand in the wind...

Stop it you guys, you know I'm a blonde. Now my head hurts!

Lovin' it!

  I have to agree with Kristi since one scripture says Jesus could do no great work where there was no faith. The Lord said he would remove our heart of stone and give us a heart of flesh. If a heart of stone remains due to a lack of faith it is a stone that will not be raised, or quickened when the Lord comes for his bride.
  Also, since the Lord referred to Peter as being called a "stone" I think any person that would have a name interpreted to mean stone will not be raised when the church is taken if they are not saved.
  Since God created man and gave him a heart that can remain a stone by His interpretation Luke 1:37 is true indeed.
  Tiff

Yes... The easy way is to say 'Faith' is only the religion of the jews/christians/muslims, no? Well.. Actually; that's the most difficult to say, because.. Well; it can only be said untrue.

I say this, because there was no such thing as christianity in Jesus' days, but also becaus jesus did some pretty amazing stuff in places that weren't even inhabited by monotheïsts. He walked the talk in places where all the people were pagans, heathens; non-JHWH believers.
But.. They did have faith. Be it not the same faith, or so it seems, but they did have faith.

But the biblical God is not all powerful He stopped being all powerful when he made the Tree of Knowledge. And he knew it; his entire creation rested on that single tree.
Being all powerful is boring and lonely. You have to share to be able to truelly be; you have to love, and be loved, to really be. And there's a nice paradox: If you are all-powerful, have power over everything, you dictate everything else. So there's no love. Then you create something to drive away the loneliness, but in order to do so, you have to create something you cannot control. So being all-powerful is not all-powerful. Instead; actively NOT being all-powerful is more powerful.

You can only make a rock so big before the mass implodes on itself and becomes a black hole. A black hole lets nothing escape... even light.  So if god made a really big rock, it would implode and he'd get sucked in. :D

Cindi

HAHAHAHAHAHAH....Best answer yet, Cindi.....

Kind of like, a self consuming moebius strip sort of process ? And when God itself arrives on the "other" "end" of the black hole, this is the equivalent of the big bang in that dimension of the universe(scuse' me, i meant "multiverse"), and then the whole process begins all over again. (or was that again?)

Even though we percieve that our times have passed in terms of millenia,
in Universal time, it's just only been the blink of an eye - not even a millisecond.
So, to all of us, it literally goes unnoticed until far too late (millions of years)...

Although, i guess one could say, given the current state of spiritual and social climate on this planet at the moment, we must be heading back into the curve towards devolvement again until the moment of complete universal destruction and rebirth...

Thanks y'all - we've just solved all the mysteries of the universe as we know it....  :laugh: :D ;) ;D

No kidding Anna!  Sometimes we make it all so difficult. Life just isn't that hard to figure out kids. Love and Peace.  Live and let live.  I shoulda been a hippie!

Cindi

no, god can't make anything because there's [no] god.

Can any X produce a Y such that Y is not of the scope of X? That's what the question really is reduced to. So I would say no, for when X can produce any Y not in its scope is contradictory since it would imply X * !X ( <-- not-X). And I would say that by virtue of the law of identity, there can never be a state where an entity can deny itself and exist at the same time ( aka A * !A ).

-- Brede

Pure mind versus pure matter.

The Creator versus the created.

Which possesses the greater power?

Rhetorical.

Quote from: Attis on April 02, 2007, 09:55:04 AM
Can any X produce a Y such that Y is not of the scope of X? That's what the question really is reduced to. So I would say no, for when X can produce any Y not in its scope is contradictory since it would imply X * !X ( <-- not-X). And I would say that by virtue of the law of identity, there can never be a state where an entity can deny itself and exist at the same time ( aka A * !A ).

-- Brede

Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.  Ayn Rand

I noted your signature; that is absolutely correct.

Quoteno, god can't make anything because there's [no] god.

Wow; this statement lacked any value whatsoever.

Quote from: Dryad on April 02, 2007, 11:29:20 AM

Quoteno, god can't make anything because there's [no] god.

Wow; this statement lacked any value whatsoever.

That statement obviously has value for the person posting it. It's their opinion. Sure, I don't agree with it. But to say that it doesn't lack value is just plain disrespectful. Please respect each other in these threads.

Thank you.

Well, the only thing I see is a line putting stress on everyone else being an idiot. (By the [no]
thing; not at all the 'no' word, but the stress hooks around it.)

I'll be happy to answer your question if you can tell me simply whether the statement that follows is actually the case. ;)

QuoteThis statement is false.

Enjoy ;D

My signature quote refutes the analytic/synthetic dichotomy. Muhahahaha!

-- Brede

Your signature quote makes two assumptions...

^*shrug*

Assumptions based on the Laws of Identity and Non-Contradiction. No one has shown them to be wrong as of yet. Not even in quantum mechanics. :3

-- Bred R Evil!

In my opinion it is never prudent to present an assumption as fact.

Human understanding has this nasty habit of evolving and shifting around and such after all.

But, believe what you wish, of course.

The paradox is irrelevant.  In fact, there is really no such thing as paradox.  At least, not to God.

It's like that question of what happens when an irresistable force meets an impenetrable object.  The truth of the matter is that none of these things actually exist.  And so it is with the rock.  The fact that the rock is or is not capable of being lifted, by God or anyone else, is meaningless.  The rock is just an illusion dreamed in the eye of God to begin with.  It can easily be replaced by anything else.

There is no real answer to the paradox, because subscribing to the idea of paradox already puts you in a paradigm of dualism.  However, God subscribes to no such limitations, neither does He live by them.  By even asserting such a question, you are already putting limits on that which is unlimited.

Yep, the question is irrelevant. It's pretty clear by now that God has chosen not to deal with the gritty details of ruling this universe, at least to an extent that we could see it. What we can expect is solace and forgiveness, not divine intervention.

The question is also meaningless, and surprisingly enough, this can be proved. I've never studied number theory that far (or tried to think this through by myself -- I am, after all, blond), but it follows directly from the properties of infinity. As in,

  Aleph-null bottles of beer on the wall,
  Aleph-null bottles of beer.
  Take one down, pass it around,
  Aleph-null bottles of beer on the wall.

It's not diamonds. Mathematicians are a girl's best friend, especially if she dabbles with science. Or, in this case, theology.

  Nfr

(Zappa 1981)


All seriousness aside...

If a thing cannot be greater than its cause, then no.

Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 25, 2007, 04:50:41 AM
It's pretty clear by now that God has chosen not to deal with the gritty details of ruling this universe, at least to an extent that we could see it.

Every word of  common people has its object; every deed has its actor, but because these talkers and actors are ignorant, TAO is ignorant with them and does not interfere.

TAO-TEH-KING, seventy (excerpted)